15-16 shifts/month is the average hospitalist/nocturnist job out there, and they pay nowhere close to 400k/yr...
You definitely have a cool gig. Wish I could find something similar. Tell me how to find a job like that as a new grad.
15 12hr shifts...
ummmmmm network? Live in a very high cost of living city on the west coast?
It was presented to me as a good gig... The market is rough right now and I hope things pick up since I am starting to get desperate.
You are correct that it is low. Contract is only 2 yrs... I have not signed anything yet.
Only 2 admits per night is good, but I think 210k/yr is too low. Almost all the nocturnist jobs I have seen pay 300k+/yr (12 hrs, 7 days on/off); however, the average admit is 8-12. In my opinion, more than 8 admits per night on a 12 hr-shift is not safe.thoughts/questions from a fellow nocturnist here -
background:
-i've been working close to 7 years as a fulltime nocturnist which is the only job i had since getting out of IM residency
-i have a light schedule for fairly low pay- i do 18 shifts a month averaging about 8 hours eachshift. and average about 2 admissions per shift with cross cover duties. with that said, most of the patients are very old/sick and alot of them need a translator. rare to get the healthy 40 year old with chole.
-theres close to 2 shifts worth of PTO per month and my pay is about 210k with option to cash out pto.
-we do manage icu patients but don't do procedures/codes. intensivist support is always available if needed
my reasons for becoming a nocturnist are pretty much the same as you. and like you i keep a daytime sleep schedule other than during extended off periods.
we are getting bought by another group and moving to a 7 on 7 off schedule with likely a small increase in census per hours as well. this will come with a pay raise but don't know how much yet. im trying to find out from other nocturnists regarding their workload vs salary to get an idea of whether im still getting a desirable gig or should i be looking for other opportunities. (location is southern california if it matters)
how many admissions do you average per night?
also do you guys feel that having an alternate, though consistent sleep schedule affects your health? i feel like im getting old rather quickly over the past 7 years but maybe its my imagination
if there are anyone here who has been working for a longtime as an exclusive nocturnist, do you think it negatively affects your clinical skills? since we are seeing overall a less volume and are limited to admissions/er triaging.
Not everyone is cut out for heavier volume admitting jobs. Some people burn out with 8 non-crit care admissions in 12 hours but are fine rounding 20+ patients as a day hospitalist.
Dude...you keep asking the same question when the answers are right in front of you.
Sorry dude. I did not even know what was an RVU and all these coding numbers? They don't talk about these things in residency. Got it now
Youll find that there is a lot they didnt teach you in the meandering 3 years of residency. Like how important it is to keep CT surgeons and cardiologists happy.
430/month is about 5200/year. That’s at 75th percentile MGMA for hospitalists. So 2 things: either unlikely to get over the threshold easily or its a really busy gig. The best way to get an idea about how much you can generate is by asking them how much the current hospitalists are generating.
Can you expand on how you structure each shift to have that much downtime? That's impressive
1.) I’ve found minimizing the actual time physically walking to see the patients matters a lot. Might be “obvious” but seriously, if you make ten round trips from call room to parient room across the hospital to see ten patients you will be way more tired the next day than if you bunched them up in batches, and waste way too much time traveling around. So, I like to wait until I get 3-4 patients before I exit the callroom to see them.
Yeah I am not. I remember I had 8 admissions on a 12-hr shift as a PGY2 and it was overwhelming.
Yeaah... you may be in for a rude awakening in the real world...
I guess I might have to adjust.
Just wanted to chime in to say 8 overnight admissions overnight in PGY-2 is tough if we’re talking admit orders, notes, care coordination on top of cross covering a high acuity unit that’s stressful IMO.
It's all those except I had a PGY1 who was doing cross cover that at time I had to loosely supervise (eg., telling him what to do sometimes). Most of the patients weren't high acuity (PNA, HF exacerbation, Cellulitis etc...).
The PGY-1 writing notes helps! Supervision's stressfull still because you have to know everything without doing all the processes (have the meds, problems down pat without documenting them 100x).
Wish the PGY1 was writing my admit notes; he was only responsible for cross cover. I think 8 admits is the max that I would feel comfortable doing as a nocturnist where I won't be worried about missing critical info.
Damn, that's a really comfortable night. How many patients was he cross-covering?
I would say 80-90 patients.
Ahh, so he's covering all the IM patients across teams. Still a very chill role if all he's doing is cross-cover. If I was a PD, I would incorporate this model as it allows for very detailed cross-coverage overnight, but then I would still worry about the preparation for the PGY-1s if they're not cross-covering/admitting simultaneously.
It must be a unicorn job if you have time to dislike others comments.
Thanks for your concern.
Contact Epic Support! It may take some time to get everything you need but they're more helpful than your colleagues and will teach you how the system works.
Compliment accepted. Thank you.
I met my partner in med school and he and I couples matched together. Honestly, the key to maintaining a social life is basically don’t work too much. Any more than 13-14 shifts can really wear on your ability to be a reasonable human.
Is this for real? You think there is a way just get money without effort by simply possessing a medical license?
Lol. I can be a pimp for BIG Pharma.