The PAT (Podiatry Admissions Test)

[mrfeet]

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There has been much discussion on this forum in regard to the inconsistency of which standardized test different podiatry schools will take. All take the MCAT, but some won't take the DAT, while others will. Also, some won't accept the GRE, while others do.

I have a suggestion to alleviate this problem. Why doesn't the AACPM create their own standardized test for podiatry school. After all, since we are in our own specialty (like dentists, optometrists, pharmacists), why not have a specific test geared towards podiatry school like the DAT, the PCAT, or the OAT?

You guys offer your suggestions on how the test should be structured, time limits, number of questions, etc. You never know, the AACPM, with the recommendation of a lot of people, might actually adopt such a policy for the future.

 

[jonwill]

It is a good idea but as you will see with board exams, it costs a lot of money to produce a standardized test. The AACPM will probably tell you that we don't have enough students to justify spending that much money to develop our own entrance exam. Especially since it would be identical to the MCAT (as required classes for MD, DO, and DPM are the same).

We work with MD/DO's, we are on staff at hospitals (and have privileges) with MD/DO's, we have unlimited prescription ability as do MD/DO's, etc. Shouldn't we have to take the same entrance exam? Any thoughts?

 

[capo]

The MCAT is the standard for med student admissions. Since pods is meds, why not just accept the MCAT as THE test of record. It upgrades the pods profession and stands it shoulder to shoulder with medicine -- as it should be.

 

[doclm]

The MCAT is the standard for med student admissions. Since pods is meds, why not just accept the MCAT as THE test of record. It upgrades the pods profession and stands it shoulder to shoulder with medicine -- as it should be.

Damn Staight 👍

 

[omaralt]

not trying to start a fight here or anything, but it seems like u guys really think that u guys are equal to MD/DO's. i dont think u'll find somebody that would go to pod school if they could have gotten into md/do. just seems like some of you take every opportunity to keep re-emphasizing that fact that ur the same; just to make urself believe it... seems kinda sad... also sad taht i got into pod school without applying

 

[IlizaRob]

not trying to start a fight here or anything,

Please dont insult your own intelligence. That was by far the dumbest comment I have ever read on SDN.

I hope no one feeds into this troll....oh wait, I already did.

 

[psionic_blast]

not trying to start a fight here or anything, but it seems like u guys really think that u guys are equal to MD/DO's. i dont think u'll find somebody that would go to pod school if they could have gotten into md/do. just seems like some of you take every opportunity to keep re-emphasizing that fact that ur the same; just to make urself believe it... seems kinda sad... also sad taht i got into pod school without applying

bump

 

[mrfeet]

Please dont insult your own intelligence. That was by far the dumbest comment I have ever read on SDN.

a

 

[IlizaRob]

Please grow up and don't be such an #$$hole! It was merely a suggestion. Why can't people on this forum simply entertain ideas instead of being pricks and making rude remarks!

Im sorry that you thought my comments were in response to your original post. If you look back at my post, I had quoted Omaralt. I was responding to his ignorance. Your PAT idea was interesting, I wouldnt bag that. Keep thinking. Change is always good.

 

[mrfeet]

Im sorry that you thought my comments were in response to your original post. If you look back at my post, I had quoted Omaralt. I was responding to his ignorance. Your PAT idea was interesting, I wouldnt bag that. Keep thinking. Change is always good.

My bad! I just realized that and edited my reply. Keep up the inciteful comments!

 

[whiskers]

OMARALT, speaking for my own "pod" educational experiences, I won't argue with you on your points that the DPM as a whole is equal to a MD/DO. I don't consider myself on par with what I perceive a medical education should be...

Having said that, I'd also like you to know that there are some keen podiatrists out there too (yeah I have to search for them too at times...)

Don't hide intelligence/knowledge behind a degree, it's really useless and makes the rest of your profession look kind of stupid.

BTW, what is nova?

 

[jonwill]

not trying to start a fight here or anything, but it seems like u guys really think that u guys are equal to MD/DO's. i dont think u'll find somebody that would go to pod school if they could have gotten into md/do. just seems like some of you take every opportunity to keep re-emphasizing that fact that ur the same; just to make urself believe it... seems kinda sad... also sad taht i got into pod school without applying

First years

 

[doclm]

not trying to start a fight here or anything, but it seems like u guys really think that u guys are equal to MD/DO's. i dont think u'll find somebody that would go to pod school if they could have gotten into md/do. just seems like some of you take every opportunity to keep re-emphasizing that fact that ur the same; just to make urself believe it... seems kinda sad... also sad taht i got into pod school without applying

Lets talk about equality! Whats saying that your DO EDITis on par with any MD school and your education will be the same? Do you want doctor after your name so bad, your willing to get into any school you can? Your in a DO profession, which has been highly criticized in the past, yet you try to do the same with DPM's, some profession you have no idea about. At least we have scientific journals and extensive research to go behind our practices of medicine.

Although this is one of the dumbest posts I have seen yet, correctly spelling out words makes you appear a lot smarter.

Please PM me if you want to chat more, I would be pleased to give you a piece of valuable information.

 

[omaralt]

guys, guys, calm down. first off to clarify, i'm in dental school, not DO.

secondly, the problem i see, is that every profession should have claim to a specific area of the body. as a future dentist, i have complete say in what goes on in my patients mouth, nobody else knows more than me. however, if i need foot surgery, why would i see a dpm?? i would go to my family physician, who would refer me to an md/do, and so on. it just seems that if you want to do surgery, and so on, why not go to med school??? it opens soo many doors, you can do the same thing a pod does plus a whole lot more. it just seems logical, that the only remaining reason sombody would limit themselves and go to pod school is because med schools are extremely competitive and they didnt have the grades, thus my argument that rarely do you find people in pod school because they chose it over med school makes sense.

 

[IlizaRob]

guys, guys, calm down. first off to clarify, i'm in dental school, not DO.

secondly, the problem i see, is that every profession should have claim to a specific area of the body. as a future dentist, i have complete say in what goes on in my patients mouth, nobody else knows more than me. however, if i need foot surgery, why would i see a dpm?? i would go to my family physician, who would refer me to an md/do, and so on. it just seems that if you want to do surgery, and so on, why not go to med school??? it opens soo many doors, you can do the same thing a pod does plus a whole lot more. it just seems logical, that the only remaining reason sombody would limit themselves and go to pod school is because med schools are extremely competitive and they didnt have the grades, thus my argument that rarely do you find people in pod school because they chose it over med school makes sense.

What is with the ignorance on this site? It amazes me. Omar, if you are going to form an opinion about an entire profession please do some research. You obviously dont know what you are talking about. Foot and ankle surgery is only part of podiatry. Yes, orthos can also do the surgery. But foot and ankle orthos usually dont want to do the forefoot surgery. If a patient comes in with flexor stabilization, who's going to correct the hammertoes? The FP? Setting surgery aside, podiatrists are at the forefront of diabetic wound care and limb salvage. The ever prestigious JAMA published an article that ranked in the top 25 illustrating the importance of podiatric care in these patients. Dont try to downplay something you know nothing about. Im sorry about your insecurities with dentistry. This is the only reason I can find that would cause you to put down others. Your statement that pod students are MD/DO wanna-bes is insulting. You should know, its an endless debate in your arena as well. What do you think would happen if I posted the same thing in the dental forum?

 

[jonwill]

guys, guys, calm down. first off to clarify, i'm in dental school, not DO.

secondly, the problem i see, is that every profession should have claim to a specific area of the body. as a future dentist, i have complete say in what goes on in my patients mouth, nobody else knows more than me. however, if i need foot surgery, why would i see a dpm?? i would go to my family physician, who would refer me to an md/do, and so on. it just seems that if you want to do surgery, and so on, why not go to med school??? it opens soo many doors, you can do the same thing a pod does plus a whole lot more. it just seems logical, that the only remaining reason sombody would limit themselves and go to pod school is because med schools are extremely competitive and they didnt have the grades, thus my argument that rarely do you find people in pod school because they chose it over med school makes sense.

FYI - Podiatrists are the surgical specialists of the foot and ankle. FP's refer their patients to us for surgical consults, etc. That is actually most of our business. We take call at ER's for foot/ankle trauma, infections, etc. After graduation, most doctors will do a 3 year surgical residency these days. Non-surgical podiatrists do exist though.
It's a bit different than dentistry where DDS doesn't equal oral surgeon. In most cases, a podiatric physician = podiatric surgeon.

 

[mrfeet]

The comments by Omar are just plain wrong. I know, first hand, several people that have gone to pod school that could have gone to medical school, but chose to do so because they had parents and/or grandparents who were podiatrists. Let's remember, this is a highly legacy-oriented profession.

The bottom line is, people can go to whomever they want to for foot problems. However, why would you go to an orthopod with a foot or ankle problem, when they only have about one year of residency experience in that area. Personally, I would rather go to a podiatrist who has seven years of education just in foot and ankle. HMMM! One year vs. seven years. Take your pick.

As far as dentistry goes there big guy, I wouldn't toot my horn too much. I know people who got into dentistry school with 3.2 and 3.3 GPA's, which is consistent with podiatry school.

Again though, why are we even having these arguments? I don't care what MD/DO's think. I'm going into podiatry to help people, not to inflate my ego!

 

[JMAT]

holy crap im amazed that this omar guy got into dental school let alone any other healthcare program. Medicine is a collaborative effort and subspecialization is what makes treatment so effective (in most cases). Its about serving patients no matter what field you're in.

 

[doclm]

guys, guys, calm down. first off to clarify, i'm in dental school, not DO.

secondly, the problem i see, is that every profession should have claim to a specific area of the body. as a future dentist, i have complete say in what goes on in my patients mouth, nobody else knows more than me. however, if i need foot surgery, why would i see a dpm?? i would go to my family physician, who would refer me to an md/do, and so on. it just seems that if you want to do surgery, and so on, why not go to med school??? it opens soo many doors, you can do the same thing a pod does plus a whole lot more. it just seems logical, that the only remaining reason sombody would limit themselves and go to pod school is because med schools are extremely competitive and they didnt have the grades, thus my argument that rarely do you find people in pod school because they chose it over med school makes sense.

Sorry....I ASS/U/ME'd...that you were in NOVA osteopathic program. Whiskers, my friend, I could of swore I seen the word NOVA also. Well I had a late night yesterday, working 16 hours with minimal work to do....So I get paid to surf SDN with you guys...like right now... so my concentration is not at its best some nights. I can understand if your in dental school and question other medical professions, however I thought you were a DO student purposely trying to insult us DPM students.

I think it is great that we can inform people like you who do not know what Podiatry is all about. Possibly someday when you come across another uninformed soul, you could enlighten them.

Good Luck with Dental.

 

[Podman]

not trying to start a fight here or anything, but it seems like u guys really think that u guys are equal to MD/DO's. i dont think u'll find somebody that would go to pod school if they could have gotten into md/do. just seems like some of you take every opportunity to keep re-emphasizing that fact that ur the same; just to make urself believe it... seems kinda sad... also sad taht i got into pod school without applying

you say its "sad" and yet claim to not start a "fight"...are you dillusional or just have a major insecuirty complex?

At any rate, I can answer you...first of all, if you don't know anything about podiatry then don't make posts like the one above because it makes you look pretty ignorant...

Let me clarify a few things:
1) getting into PODIATRY school is easy...getting out with a degree and a 3-yr residency is extremely difficult...

2) Podiatry is a small profession that is evolving into parallel direction as osteopathic medicine...i.e. osteopaths started out with manipulations and progressed mainstream...we started out chiropidists and routine foot-care specialists and are now a recognized surgical specialty

3) you mentioned that if you have a foot problem, you'd go to a FP first. You are not the only person who does so - because podiatry is a small subspecialty, the general public is on the most part unaware of what we do...this is why our training is becoming more intensified to be able to handle the referrals from MD's and DO's...and yes we get referrals and some of us even work with orthopoedic surgeons...

4) I am not a medical student, nor do I claim to be one. I am a podiatry student studying to be a Doctor of Podiatric Medicine - Upon graduation, we do a podiatric and medicine surgical residency of 3 years plus a 1 year option of extra fellowships...

At any rate, that was my quick tutorial about podiatry, i think it is the greatest profession...for me at least. You clearly don't know enough about the profession to make ignorant comments like the ones above but it is not your fault completely - perhaps our profession needs to do more to make the public more aware...at any rate, good luck with dental school...

 

[MD2b20004]

guys, guys, calm down. first off to clarify, i'm in dental school, not DO.

secondly, the problem i see, is that every profession should have claim to a specific area of the body. as a future dentist, i have complete say in what goes on in my patients mouth, nobody else knows more than me. however, if i need foot surgery, why would i see a dpm?? i would go to my family physician, who would refer me to an md/do, and so on. it just seems that if you want to do surgery, and so on, why not go to med school??? it opens soo many doors, you can do the same thing a pod does plus a whole lot more. it just seems logical, that the only remaining reason sombody would limit themselves and go to pod school is because med schools are extremely competitive and they didnt have the grades, thus my argument that rarely do you find people in pod school because they chose it over med school makes sense.

What does everyone on this forum automatcially assume that anyone who posts something that does not boost their DPM ego or say DPMs are God that they are DO students, it protrays that you guys are defensive and have low self-esteem about your field, just answer questions of posters and stop attacking... geezzzz, can we say some maturity here!

 

[Podman]

What does everyone on this forum automatcially assume that anyone who posts something that does not boost their DPM ego or say DPMs are God that they are DO students, it protrays that you guys are defensive and have low self-esteem about your field, just answer questions of posters and stop attacking... geezzzz, can we say some maturity here!

i am one of the people who responded to that poster and i don't think i was defensive - so who said anything about the "DPM ego?" - the poster asked a question in a very condescending "holier than thou" manner by carrying a false assumption that pod students are not competitive enough for "medical school". This has more to do with the poster's comments than the respondants really.

I'm a podiatry student and i chose this field - no, i don't have an inferiority complex nor do i have a "low-self-esteem" - there are better ways to ask why people choose certain fields over the others rather than assuming that they are "less competitive" - had the question been why podiatry over other medical/healthcare fields? Then, the responses would be more sound and the conversation would be more engaging and informative.

I appreciate your effort in offering your 2 cents about people's comments but posters need to be more respectful in the manner they use to ask the questions about other fields that they are unfamiliar with.

 

[djc1981]

Dental Students = Rejected MD Students 😀

 

[dpmgrad]

Dental Students = Rejected MD Students 😀

I personally know of several Dentist and Dental students that wanted to be a Dentist and they never applied to MD or DO schools.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I personally know of several Dentist and Dental students that wanted to be a Dentist and they never applied to MD or DO schools.

Me too

Maybe the correct analogy is djc1981=misinformed?

 

[do-ca]

not trying to start a fight here or anything, but it seems like u guys really think that u guys are equal to MD/DO's. i dont think u'll find somebody that would go to pod school if they could have gotten into md/do. just seems like some of you take every opportunity to keep re-emphasizing that fact that ur the same; just to make urself believe it... seems kinda sad... also sad taht i got into pod school without applying

Wow, well you didn't get in because you can spell correctly!

WTF? Why would you post that? I have alot of friends who would never go to DO school and would never even see a DO. Don't act like you're all that because you got into NOVA or whatever.

No offense but with my 30R mcat and graduating with honors I'm going to pod school.

Good luck being an internist.

Real men (and women) want to do surgery!

 

[do-ca]

What does everyone on this forum automatcially assume that anyone who posts something that does not boost their DPM ego or say DPMs are God that they are DO students, it protrays that you guys are defensive and have low self-esteem about your field, just answer questions of posters and stop attacking... geezzzz, can we say some maturity here!

Sorry for posting twice ina row, but seriously, aren't you the guy who is like 40 and still cruising SDN after having completed a degree of DPM and DO?

GET A LIFE Ugh! Of course we are going to defend our deceison to go to pod school. That's the profession we want to have.

Just wait until this guy finds out how most people think about DO's and he will be crying in the MD forums!

 

[Dr. Foot]

I am totally sick of reading these ignorant post people - I think most of these individuals have a personal problems with the profession of podiatry and they cannot get over it. I said it once and I am repeating myself again: NO matter how much you explain how the profession of podiatry is at the same level as any other medical field - they simply won't get it.

Mr. omar started his posting as "not trying to start a fight here or anything" - I mean what kind of statement is that - are you in elementry school, I am sorry to say that but your post reflect your absolute ignorance of podiatry - by the time you finish your dental school and do your 12 month residency you will realize that in a hospital setting (starting from a nurse to a brain surgeon) every profession is completing each other.

Quick advice: Keep your destructive comment for your self or say it out loud in an open space (it might give you some relief).

 

[djc1981]

Geez, sorry guys. I was actually defending the podiatry profession against that loser Omaralt....sorry I tried.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Sorry to pick on you but you can't defend our profession by insulting ours, that lowers us to their level. I prefer to cut them down with wit and fact.