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[DocEspana]

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then why say he can veto a lynch?

i agree, surviving the death sounds like Hulka (the mortar launch scene)... but that's not what DocE said is it?

have you considered maybe it benefits villagers (yes villagers, lets not get into the "or wolves!" thing) to not fully reveal what i can and cant do as long as the results are effectively the same: namely that lynching me would fail and just give the wolves a free shot at us all.

 

[wolfspeaker]

He claimed it.

Thanks. I musta missed that.

 

[DVMDream]

then why say he can veto a lynch?

i agree, surviving the death sounds like Hulka (the mortar launch scene)... but that's not what DocE said is it?

Do you really expect the truth out of DocE? I agree, if you can survive the lynch, just say so... but this is DocE we are talking about. You also have to remember our mod is SOV, he is able to make whatever story he wants for the write up.

 

[DocEspana]

also I can PM with someone and am shocked that they didnt try to help me at all. theyve known from day 1 how my role actually works and how i intended to get out of this little conundrum and didnt help the villagers to not waste a round when the time came.

 

[wolfspeaker]

No i claimed hulka straight out. I though you had known that already.

I remembered you guys talking like you were Hulka, but wasn't sure if you had said it(I couldn't find it, apparently didn't look hard enough) or if someone else had said it.

 

[Flim Flam Man]

What's with the late bandwagoning on me??

 

[thedrjojo]

have you considered maybe it benefits villagers (yes villagers, lets not get into the "or wolves!" thing) to not fully reveal what i can and cant do as long as the results are effectively the same: namely that lynching me would fail and just give the wolves a free shot at us all.

Telling us you could veto is much different than saying you can surviving a lynch... if memory serves me well, there was a little conversation in the GB thread about how surviving a lynch is much more commonly a wolf trait...

 

[thedrjojo]

well if we have one in our graps I might as well make a nice list of my suspicions incase killing the ex-mayor is on the wolf to-do list. In rough order of suspicion

Devyn: Well no duh. Only been on this bandwagon since I was resurrected (actually since the night I died, when someone told me what she claimed to be). Glad this is all but confirmed

KP: Cause lets be honest, villagers can survive lynches but it is a less common than wolves. Also the *way* in which she survived the lynch is freaky. Makes me think perhaps we unlocked her wolf potential? If it is was not already in full blown wolf mode.

LIS: This is more along the lines of his role being openly posessable by his own admission and him admitting to having his "Role stolen" (his words) at least once. multiple times IIRC. And this information was shared with at least one wolf (WTF) though I would assume there was sharing with multiple wolves one way or another. His role is not what scares me, but its the fact that he never denied being able to be posessed and how ubiquitous his identity became that makes me think he is compromised. Plus his posting/usefulness has gone way down in the last few days if my observations are correct (yes it is a holiday. but his rate has gone down well below everyone elses).

DVM: It needs to be said that DVM and I are like highlanders. There can be only one. We cannot co-exist. I have no hard info on her except that I always want her dead for all the times she was a wolf and had me framed/wolf-killed early on. I am sure she feels the same way for all the times I was a wolf and attempted to earn her trust. We like to turn on each other in WW. But honestly, except for my incredibly high suspicion of her at baseline she has done nothing *wrong*. I just don't think she has done much right either. Don't make too much of our bickering. Just know that if anyone has a good reason to lynch her I'll be supporting you all the way.

FFM: Honest just a little suspicious. Seems useful so far. I just know he's become a very good player and has always had a knack for laying low til late in the game.

T4C: Suspicious of a ghostbuster I know. Odd. Well he is bottom on the list. But it ties into one of my concerns above. And I havent been able to talk to the black ghostbuster (winston, i know your name, but you;ll always be the black ghostbuster to me), and ask if T4C is acting normal. I dont WANT that person to reply and out themself... i just wish I could ask. Because everyone else resurrected has been the random NY villagers. I know who claimed to have resurrected T4C, and he wasnt my first choice for resurrection, and I gave good reason as to why someone else should be resurrected. So Im curious now... if maybe there is a wolf resurrection possible? I am HUGELY speculating here. But just wanted it written down just incase I die and someone feels like theyre the only one who even contemplated it.

you had me fairly convinced that Hulka wasn't a wolf, now I can't be sure...

 

[DocEspana]

this is comical. if you really want to off me that bad youll probably have to get behind the wolves in line (unless youre one of the lucky one who gets the shot tonight). I had good instincts (though little proof) last game. thats a recipe for early wolfkill this one.

Hulka is a survivor. Survives lynches. Survives wolf attacks. Still: cant survive forever. Or can I? No I can't. But I'd rather not expend all of my tricks trying to appease Rojo.

 

[LetItSnow]

I don't know.... I have a feeling that there may be someone drinking too much vodka in our midst... so

unlynch doce

lynch LIS

Yup, I had vodka last night and, being a believer in using items rather than sitting on them, I drank it. Nothing happened (of which I'm aware).

Ironic - I first asked SOV if I could share it with you, Devyn.

I'm a bit suspicious at the *way* you shared this - you're clearly trying to imply I'm a wolf when I'm not. You could have simply asked.

So long as the item moves to a villager tomorrow, someone ought to be able to verify that it's just an item floating around. *shrug*

 

[thedrjojo]

this is comical. if you really want to off me that bad youll probably have to get behind the wolves in line (unless youre one of the lucky one who gets the shot tonight). I had good instincts (though little proof) last game. thats a recipe for early wolfkill this one.

Hulka is a survivor. Survives lynches. Survives wolf attacks. Still: cant survive forever. Or can I? No I can't. But I'd rather not expend all of my tricks trying to appease Rojo.

Hey, I just want to be able to believe you... and when I point out where you lied and tried to cover up something in just the last game you rallied against (correctly), I'm trying to make sense of it...

 

[LetItSnow]

What's with the late bandwagoning on me??

On you? I'm the one that almost got late-bandwagoned. All for using an object that didn't even have any (known to me) effect. 😛

 

[DocEspana]

If we are being technical... villagers survive lynches more often than wolves. if the power is 'survives a lynch'. Wolves survive more if the power is 'has to be killed by jumping through certain hoops'. Thats both relevant to this game and just good WW mechanics to remember. A wolf will rarely survive "one" attack... either lynch kills them the first time, or dont bother trying again until you figure out what prevented it from working. Villagers can be "hardy" wolves are "tricky"

 

[Flim Flam Man]

On you? I'm the one that almost got late-bandwagoned. All for using an object that didn't even have any (known to me) effect. 😛

Well, you too. Gotta look out for number uno 😉

 

[DVMDream]

If we are being technical... villagers survive lynches more often than wolves. if the power is 'survives a lynch'. Wolves survive more if the power is 'has to be killed by jumping through certain hoops'. Thats both relevant to this game and just good WW mechanics to remember. A wolf will rarely survive "one" attack... either lynch kills them the first time, or dont bother trying again until you figure out what prevented it from working. Villagers can be "hardy" wolves are "tricky"

Is this in English?

 

[DocEspana]

the above comment should prob also say "thats why i said a villager surviving a lynch is less common than a wolf doing so". Because im taking into account wolves that arent straight out lynchable at all. Im only gonna live through one lynch (or so I say). Thanks for using up one of my useful abilities. haha. feel free to doubt me and try again. It'll free me up for running my game haha.

 

[DocEspana]

Is this in English?

would probably make more sense if i actually quoted Rojo like i thought I had.

 

[DVMDream]

would probably make more sense if i actually quoted Rojo like i thought I had.

No, honestly, it just doesn't make sense at all, but you talk like that quite a bit... all "technical" without really making any sense.

 

[LetItSnow]

Is this in English?

Well. I think I understood his point. But it's total "baffle you with bull****" kind of commentary. There's absolutely ZERO reason to think a wolf couldn't be "hardy" and a villager "tricky" (to use his words). DocE is just doing his best to confuse things. Doesn't necessarily mean he's a wolf, but it's a tactic I've seen him use more than once when he's under attack as a wolf. I was actually leaning toward thinking villager until he suddenly went all "confusion ftw" on it.

 

[DocEspana]

<shrug> Or I could spend a lot of time talking to rojo outside of games about the mechanics you actually see and the ones you don't see. I play WW games nearly constantly, usually two at a time, given Im on another site just for these games. Ive been meaning to talk to him more about mechanics and when better than when Im accused of being a wolf and he (astutely) pointed out something I said last game that really needed to be expanded on.

You can feel free to argue, LIS, that wolves can be 'hardy' and villagers can be 'tricky'... but you'll have two or four isolated examples ever in the ~75 WW games on SDN. My argument will have close to 75 examples (heavily weighted towards recent games) of the villagers being somewhat kill resistant and wolves either being 100% susceptible or "tricky" to kill, rather than just resistant to the first try.

Does it prove that Im one or the other? no. haha. only killing me proves anything. And Im telling you trying again will succeed (something I'd want you to do if I was a wolf. So I'd really prefer you didnt try again for two reasons then!). But its a worthwhile mechanic to discuss.

 

[DVMDream]

<shrug> Or I could spend a lot of time talking to rojo outside of games about the mechanics you actually see and the ones you don't see. I play WW games nearly constantly, usually two at a time, given Im on another site just for these games. Ive been meaning to talk to him more about mechanics and when better than when Im accused of being a wolf and he (astutely) pointed out something I said last game that really needed to be expanded on.

You can feel free to argue, LIS, that wolves can be 'hardy' and villagers can be 'tricky'... but you'll have two or four isolated examples ever in the ~75 WW games on SDN. My argument will have close to 75 examples (heavily weighted towards recent games) of the villagers being somewhat kill resistant and wolves either being 100% susceptible or "tricky" to kill, rather than just resistant to the first try.

Does it prove that Im one or the other? no. haha. only killing me proves anything. And Im telling you trying again will succeed (something I'd want you to do if I was a wolf. So I'd really prefer you didnt try again for two reasons then!). But its a worthwhile mechanic to discuss.

We aren't talking about killing, we are talking about lynching.... two very different things in my mind... and in all of the ww games I have played, I have seen very few villagers that can escape a lynch... that is an ability more commonly given to wolves... More villagers die via lynch in these games than wolves and very rarely can a villager escape the lynch... (I put a non-lynchable villager into one of my games, but that was only because I had not seen that done before)....

Ignoring game theory and mechanics though, I do know that Hulka was seen as a hero in the movie. But this is an SOV game, so I don't know what SOV has up his sleeve... I am not even sure of who we are looking for as far as wolves go, can only speculate.

 

[thedrjojo]

<shrug> Or I could spend a lot of time talking to rojo outside of games about the mechanics you actually see and the ones you don't see. I play WW games nearly constantly, usually two at a time, given Im on another site just for these games. Ive been meaning to talk to him more about mechanics and when better than when Im accused of being a wolf and he (astutely) pointed out something I said last game that really needed to be expanded on.

You can feel free to argue, LIS, that wolves can be 'hardy' and villagers can be 'tricky'... but you'll have two or four isolated examples ever in the ~75 WW games on SDN. My argument will have close to 75 examples (heavily weighted towards recent games) of the villagers being somewhat kill resistant and wolves either being 100% susceptible or "tricky" to kill, rather than just resistant to the first try.

Does it prove that Im one or the other? no. haha. only killing me proves anything. And Im telling you trying again will succeed (something I'd want you to do if I was a wolf. So I'd really prefer you didnt try again for two reasons then!). But its a worthwhile mechanic to discuss.

hehehe... i'd like to discuss more with you, however you haven't responded to my PM's in a bit... but I haven't gotten to learn THAT much from you yet, so don't try to fully paint me as a little DocE just yet...

You have painted yourself in quite a corner my friend, and I'm open for suggestions at this point, because I'd like not to lose a villager, but I'd also like to not allow a cunning wolf to live longer than we should allow... and I see no feasible way out of this...

 

[DocEspana]

Honestly, and I see everyone's point here, either you lynch me tomorrow or you let me live a few rounds and prove my utility. There is no bad blood either way. Everyone got on the nonsense "DocE is awfully quiet from 11pm to 10am" boat. Cause clearly no one sleeps here. vote was too one sided to not directly defend myself. I decided that its more strategically useful to not spell out the exact mechanism of why I'd survive the lynch... didnt save me from having to use it. So I cant blame you guys for wondering if Im hiding a useful secret about my role or if im hiding a wolf tail.

Make your decisions and carry on haha. Im over it and re-reading the thread to see if there is anything useful I can gather from other people's comments.

 

[StartingoverVet]

night closed
results pending

 

[thedrjojo]

hehehe... i'd like to discuss more with you, however you haven't responded to my PM's in a bit... but I haven't gotten to learn THAT much from you yet, so don't try to fully paint me as a little DocE just yet...

You have painted yourself in quite a corner my friend, and I'm open for suggestions at this point, because I'd like not to lose a villager, but I'd also like to not allow a cunning wolf to live longer than we should allow... and I see no feasible way out of this...

I'd like to note that me and DocE are NOT pm'ing in this game... we have discussions outside of the context of these games related to mechanics, and he cuts me off when actual games we are both involved in occur ... thought I'd clear that up before someone jumps on something that isn't there...

 

[StartingoverVet]

A little more action tonight, although a certain player's actions have again gone unused due to the capricious deadlines of the mad-hatter mod. Sorry, but send stuff in way ahead of time as this is a fast paced game with random deadlines until I sort out this co-mod thing.

Many of the non-lethal actions involved a single player. Protecting, investigating, protecting, stealing..... It is fun to popular (I wouldn't know).

In more important news, we have definitively proven that SDNers suffer the same affliction as the rest of the populace in that they do not read the warning labels on the items they own. Philliab, was killed when her mortar was not aimed at anyone in particular and the shell landed on her instead. Just as well as now the mud wrestler in a bikini can no longer steal your items. I would insert appropriate photo here, but trying to keep this g-rated.

Tonight was a double feature as you also lost another hottie, this time wearing a uniform as Dwindlin was found dead, aka Stella, the MP and girlfriend of Russell Ziskey. Who will keep Ziskey warm, and more importantly safe in the middle of the night now?

Sorry guys.

As usual all items are lost at the end of the night.

It is Day 3 (already)

There are 13 players left. Lynch someone soon. And keep up the enjoyable discussion.

1- dyachei
2- DVMD
3- devyn
4- WS
5- kaydubs
6- cuitlamiztli
7- Dwin, Stella the MP
8- The LIS
9- Philliab,mud wrestling bikini girl
10-rojo
11-equineconstant
12-FFM
13-DocE
14- allieh8607
15- KP

 

[Philliab]

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🙄 🙁 Best role ever.
*****************

 

[Dwindlin]

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Oh come on!!! 😡 😡 😡

*****************************

 

[wolfspeaker]

Not sure I am too sad about Philliab(except that she was a villager number). I don't like people that steal.

But Dwin. 🙁

 

[LetItSnow]

You can feel free to argue, LIS, that wolves can be 'hardy' and villagers can be 'tricky'... but you'll have two or four isolated examples ever in the ~75 WW games on SDN. My argument will have close to 75 examples (heavily weighted towards recent games) of the villagers being somewhat kill resistant and wolves either being 100% susceptible or "tricky" to kill, rather than just resistant to the first try.

Awesome numbers, dude. Really impressive. Especially since they're pulled out of your ass, just like any really compelling journal article where the authors are trying to make a conclusion without actually bothering to do the research.

73.67 percent of the time (p-value 0.03, n=17 games) when DocE starts making up numbers and confusing people, he's playing a wolf.

 

[LetItSnow]

Regarding the vodka item ... I don't have a clue why it would do this, but from the PM I got from the mod this last night it sounds like it may have a protective ability of some kind. The PM noted that I didn't feel as safe without the vodka. FWIW. That said, all I can tell whoever has it is that I drank it and nothing bad happened to me.

So - drink at your own peril, I guess.

 

[Philliab]

Not sure I am too sad about Philliab(except that she was a villager number). I don't like people that steal.

But Dwin. 🙁

*********************
LAME 😡 👎
*********************

 

[DocEspana]

and whoever has the rope. tell me if you had any more luck with it than I did.

 

[StartingoverVet]

enough mourning... time to lynch.

 

[DocEspana]

lynch rojo. Though Im not sold on him, but there was some slippery turning of phrases and twisting of comments from him. Could be a misunderstanding, but it seems vaguely....suspicious.

(cue sea of votes for me for being outright suspicious)

And speaking of suspicious. The fact that I don't have any concerns about DVM right now makes me think that this HAS to be the twilight zone.

 

[DocEspana]

*not sold on him as who im gonna stick with for lynch. I guess by voting to lynch him im not sold on him as a villager either. but that's not what i meant haha.

 

[wolfspeaker]

Lynch DocE for being DocE and dangerous wolf or villager. I have nothing else to go on right now. Willing to waffle if any information comes out.

 

[DVMDream]

lynch rojo. Though Im not sold on him, but there was some slippery turning of phrases and twisting of comments from him. Could be a misunderstanding, but it seems vaguely....suspicious.

(cue sea of votes for me for being outright suspicious)

And speaking of suspicious. The fact that I don't have any concerns about DVM right now makes me think that this HAS to be the twilight zone.

I think this is the twilight zone. Only explanation.

 

[equineconstant]

I'm going to stick with my last vote of lynch FFM. Nothing concrete, just suspicion. I just want to make sure I have a vote up since deadlines are so fast and I have a club meeting-documentary showing-work shift trifecta tonight.

 

[thedrjojo]

I think this is the twilight zone. Only explanation.

when you concentrate all the most suspicious people in one small game, someone has to be good, am I right? I know I am, and I still don't know about DocE... my brain is screaming that we have to try to lynch him again to KNOW (maybe we have to injure him with the Mortar that kills Phil and then lynch him?), but something about him makes me want to believe him, even if he is now trying to get me lynched...

 

[DocEspana]

unlynch rojo, lynch WS.

Cause... what the fudge? seriously?

WS is able to PM and confided in me early on. Which was a refreshing change of pace for me. So WS became the person I explained my role too. Told them all of my powers. And told them about the entire "veto is a lie, but it works for reason x, y, and z better than explaining my full role and letting the wolves know how it works". Told WS all of this hours before I was lynched. Then WS goes silent and doesnt say a thing until right at the end when s/he asks if I was confirmed Hulka. Which makes no sense to me (yea i didnt tell the role name, but i did spell out every aspect of the role ability).

If the person who reached out to me didnt come to my defense even though i talked out the entire defense with them and then decides to lynch me despite being in the know on the entire strategy well before it was ever even begun..... something is up. Normally I'd say its too "dumb" of a mistake for a wolf to make, but WS still makes some dumb tactical mistakes occasionally.

 

[LetItSnow]

lynch rojo. Though Im not sold on him, but there was some slippery turning of phrases and twisting of comments from him. Could be a misunderstanding, but it seems vaguely....suspicious.

Hm. I was actually sitting here thinking pretty much exactly that. Then I read this post. I hate ignoring my gut, but it's hard to tell if it's just something I ate for lunch or not.

And I still don't really have any objection to lynching DocE. And one of the things I hate most is finding out someone is a wolf late in the game when I had an inkling early in the game.

So lynch rojo for now, I guess. Halfheartedly. And partially wishing I could vote for two people. (New game mechanic, anyone? Run-off voting?)

 

[DocEspana]

well rojo if you want or WS if you want. I can excuse anyone for voting for me except WS since s/he was in on the whole thing and now wants me lynched?

 

[thedrjojo]

unlynch rojo, lynch WS.

Cause... what the fudge? seriously?

WS is able to PM and confided in me early on. Which was a refreshing change of pace for me. So WS became the person I explained my role too. Told them all of my powers. And told them about the entire "veto is a lie, but it works for reason x, y, and z better than explaining my full role and letting the wolves know how it works". Told WS all of this hours before I was lynched. Then WS goes silent and doesnt say a thing until right at the end when s/he asks if I was confirmed Hulka. Which makes no sense to me (yea i didnt tell the role name, but i did spell out every aspect of the role ability).

If the person who reached out to me didnt come to my defense even though i talked out the entire defense with them and then decides to lynch me despite being in the know on the entire strategy well before it was ever even begun..... something is up. Normally I'd say its too "dumb" of a mistake for a wolf to make, but WS still makes some dumb tactical mistakes occasionally.

wait... she can PM you? now some of your comments make sense from earlier...

 

[wolfspeaker]

unlynch rojo, lynch WS.

Cause... what the fudge? seriously?

WS is able to PM and confided in me early on. Which was a refreshing change of pace for me. So WS became the person I explained my role too. Told them all of my powers. And told them about the entire "veto is a lie, but it works for reason x, y, and z better than explaining my full role and letting the wolves know how it works". Told WS all of this hours before I was lynched. Then WS goes silent and doesnt say a thing until right at the end when s/he asks if I was confirmed Hulka. Which makes no sense to me (yea i didnt tell the role name, but i did spell out every aspect of the role ability).

If the person who reached out to me didnt come to my defense even though i talked out the entire defense with them and then decides to lynch me despite being in the know on the entire strategy well before it was ever even begun..... something is up. Normally I'd say its too "dumb" of a mistake for a wolf to make, but WS still makes some dumb tactical mistakes occasionally.

Thank you for outing that I could PM you. 🙄 (like I said, dangerous both as a wolf AND a villager)

You did NOT tell me all your powers(you elude to more on thread) and how the hell am I suppose to believe you after what you've pulled in previous games.

I told you, I was at work. That's why I couldn't post on the thread. I left when you had ONE vote. I got back after Day had closed.

And you can PM me all you want, isn't going to make me trust in you more. You've pulled the wool over my eyes far too many times with the tales you spin. Could you be telling the truth, sure. But how am I suppose to REALLY know?

 

[thedrjojo]

Hm. I was actually sitting here thinking pretty much exactly that. Then I read this post. I hate ignoring my gut, but it's hard to tell if it's just something I ate for lunch or not.

And I still don't really have any objection to lynching DocE. And one of the things I hate most is finding out someone is a wolf late in the game when I had an inkling early in the game.

So lynch rojo for now, I guess. Halfheartedly. And partially wishing I could vote for two people. (New game mechanic, anyone? Run-off voting?)

So after all that of you calling DocE on bull****, you are going on a half-heartedly inclination help spurred on BY him?!? 😡

I really have no clue who to lynch here...

 

[Flim Flam Man]

I'm going to stick with my last vote of lynch FFM. Nothing concrete, just suspicion. I just want to make sure I have a vote up since deadlines are so fast and I have a club meeting-documentary showing-work shift trifecta tonight.

lynch EC for the same reasons EC is lynching me. (except I have no club meeting-documentary showing-work shift trifecta. I have work shift-retaliatory gesture).

 

[LetItSnow]

So after all that of you calling DocE on bull****, you are going on a half-heartedly inclination help spurred on BY him?!? 😡

I really have no clue who to lynch here...

Yes, precisely. He was spewing bs, and I stand by calling him out on it. That's not in question in my mind. He loves to throw completely imaginary numbers out to make some sort of authority claim when in fact he's really just making crap up. That's no secret.

The hard part to figure out with him is whether it's his normal villager bs or his wolfy "confuse people and cause chaos" bs. I'm on the fence. If you read my post from the last lynch, my biggest goal was to hedge my bet. I'm not sold on him being a wolf, but I think it's at least a good possibility and if he is the last thing we want is an end-game scenario with him as a wolf being able to duck a lynch.

And no, my vote is not "spurred on" by him. My point was that I already had that inkling.

 

[DocEspana]

Thank you for outing that I could PM you. 🙄 (like I said, dangerous both as a wolf AND a villager)

You did NOT tell me all your powers(you elude to more on thread) and how the hell am I suppose to believe you after what you've pulled in previous games.

I told you, I was at work. That's why I couldn't post on the thread. I left when you had ONE vote. I got back after Day had closed.

And you can PM me all you want, isn't going to make me trust in you more. You've pulled the wool over my eyes far too many times with the tales you spin. Could you be telling the truth, sure. But how am I suppose to REALLY know?

WS. I not only told you all of my powers. I spelled them out for you without missing a single detail. Also you sent me a PM saying that I need to get the votes off of my back, so idk when you left the conversation but given the use of plural, (and i began posting with 3 votes) it wasnt when I had one vote.

 

[wolfspeaker]

I've had a total of THREE pm's from DocE since the beginning of the game. Not a whole lot was said in those PM's. Talked about a role ability, sure, but I have no proof that he is telling the truth. But I can for sure tell you that he lied to you all when he said he could veto that lynch. (as was already confirmed by the mod's writeup)

And that is one reason I go about him.