The religious premed (experience)?

[armybound]

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I don't pray for interviews, I just pray for Him to direct me in whatever direction he sees fit....Luckily so far that has been in the direction I want to go.

this has been my experience as well. and it's funny that I've always been an atheist, but just recently started looking into Christianity and all of a sudden things start working out for me.

May be coincidence, I just find it interesting.

 

[mcgyver]

I'd love to hear your "reason" for why little kids get cancer.

I have a simple answer for this question:

in christianity, afterlife > this life

therefore when little kids get cancer, yes their current lives looks pretty messed up. but you don't know what happens after they've passed away. Christians generally believe God takes very good care of them in the afterlife. so their cancer doesn't suck as bad as others may perceive. that's not yet considering what the little kid's sickeness, the inspiring story, or the medical knowledge obtained from it, may contribute to others.

I hope that helps.

 

[andrewnwi]

I was raised Catholic, turned Agnostic, now after attending classes and talking with people and professors I believe in some higher power. Understanding and reading about the order of how things work together, and how much is still yet to be explained boggles the mind. I still do not consider myself to be Christian, Catholic, Baptist, etc; however, I do believe is something.

 

[202781]

I have a simple answer for this question:

in christianity, afterlife > this life

therefore when little kids get cancer, yes their current lives looks pretty messed up. but you don't know what happens after they've passed away. Christians generally believe God takes very good care of them in the afterlife. so their cancer doesn't suck as bad as others may perceive. that's not yet considering what the little kid's sickeness, the inspiring story, or the medical knowledge obtained from it, may contribute to others.

I hope that helps.

If the afterlife is so much better than this life, you should do everything in your power to die earlier (because according to "God" suicide is bad or whatev). So if I were you I would just start doing really dumb things like researching how small of a parachute will still be effective in bringing you to the ground safely. Not only will you find out the answer to this question, but on your last trip you will die. SCORE now you are in heaven.

I personally would not want a doctor who was operating on me to believe that this life is not as great as the next. That would be scary

 

[cyclin M]

I have a simple answer for this question:

in christianity, afterlife > this life

therefore when little kids get cancer, yes their current lives looks pretty messed up. but you don't know what happens after they've passed away. Christians generally believe God takes very good care of them in the afterlife. so their cancer doesn't suck as bad as others may perceive. that's not yet considering what the little kid's sickeness, the inspiring story, or the medical knowledge obtained from it, may contribute to others.

I hope that helps.

Poor answer. If the afterlife is so great why are you still here? You are suggesting these kids are somehow lucky to get cancer because they get a free pass to heaven. Check yourself.

 

[202781]

Poor answer. If the afterlife is so great why are you still here? You are suggesting these kids are somehow lucky to get cancer because they get a free pass to heaven. Check yourself.

Thank you. This is the reason I would not want a doctor who felt this way.

 

[bobsagat]

If the afterlife is so much better than this life, you should do everything in your power to die earlier (because according to "God" suicide is bad or whatev). So if I were you I would just start doing really dumb things like researching how small of a parachute will still be effective in bringing you to the ground safely. Not only will you find out the answer to this question, but on your last trip you will die. SCORE now you are in heaven.

I personally would not want a doctor who was operating on me to believe that this life is not as great as the next. That would be scary

Dude, seriously. We've asked you to stop making this a debate thread. I have an answer to this comment, but I'm not going to put it here in the interest of civility. If you want to continue the discussion, I suggest you PM someone. (I'm game)

I am a Christian and have found I draw a lot of strength from the belief that God has a plan for me, and if I continue to trust in His plan, I will find peace wherever He decides I should go. While I deeply wanted an acceptance, I asked instead that His will be done, not mine. Luckily, he has blessed me with a spot in medical school.

I think my belief in an afterlife allows me to live with a looser grip on my own life, to live it without fear of losing it, so to speak. I will hope my patients can find the same peace. Though I would never directly preach to anyone who does not believe, I would be glad to pray with any patient that asks me to do so.

 

[DrSno]

Thank you. This is the reason I would not want a doctor who felt this way.

Same here, but luckily many christians don't believe in a true heaven, and many more don't believe it at their core.

 

[SiR99]

For everyone who doesnt believe:

God is not going to make it blatantly obvious that he exists. People need to show their faith when there are others who try to go against it.

You guys are trying to argue with a bunch of college students who have midterms/finals, who cant sit down and thoroughly explain everything to you because its not something you can explain online or in a short conversation, you could Major in religion and still not have enough time to get every answer to every question you have.

If you read the Bible or other religous texts some of your questions will be answered, dont ask these types of questions to a bunch of sleep deprived pre-meds online.

Imagine a farm where the farmer spends many days planting his crops. Then some devious person comes along and embeds weeds all throughout field of crops. Instead of the farmer going through the whole thing and cleaning out the dirty weeds, he will wait till harvest day and just collect the good crops and leave behind the dirty weeds.

If you die and your a truely a good person it will be acknowledged, but if you dont believe, dont go around trying to disprove God exists your only making it worse for yourself. Keep it to yourself 👍

 

[riceman04]

this has been my experience as well. and it's funny that I've always been an atheist, but just recently started looking into Christianity and all of a sudden things start working out for me.

May be coincidence, I just find it interesting.

possibly...but obviously I'd try and convince myself of the latter

good luck next year

 

[wakeboarder56]

I have a simple answer for this question:

in christianity, afterlife > this life

therefore when little kids get cancer, yes their current lives looks pretty messed up. but you don't know what happens after they've passed away. Christians generally believe God takes very good care of them in the afterlife. so their cancer doesn't suck as bad as others may perceive. that's not yet considering what the little kid's sickeness, the inspiring story, or the medical knowledge obtained from it, may contribute to others.

I hope that helps.

Not the best answer I have ever read as a christian myself. The answer is much more complex than what has been stated here. Everything that happens on this earth happens in order to bring glory to God. This answer will not set well with people who are not christians and even some who are so let me try and explain the best I can. In the book of Romans (9:14-15) God is speaking to Moses when he says "What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion"". Romans goes into more detail on the topic but an overview would be that God creates only one type of person, and that is one that will glorify him in all they do. This does not mean that everyone will go to heaven for the bible also says in Romans that God will create some for evil and some for good, but all according to his plan. The people God has marked for evil will never come to believe in him and will go to hell, the one marked for good will not be able to resist believing in him and will accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior and will spend eternity in heaven. (For more on this read the books of Romans or Revelation, or visit you local Presbyterian, Baptist, or Methodist,...church).

Now as to how this applies to a christian doctors practice. Knowing that God created everyone for his glory no christian should force themselves or their beliefs on their patients, as I won't. God gave us all the capacity to make our own choices and while I may not believe in the choice you make it is your choice and I am not here to judge you. As for practice, I could not perform voluntary abortions (if my patients life is at risk I would see no other choice but to abort), and as for most other aspects of medicine you would not be able to tell a difference between a christian and non-christian doctor (as I have not in my shadowing and that is something I have asked often).

Also, please excuse any grammar mistakes because it is late...thanks.

 

[cyclin M]

Dude, seriously. We've asked you to stop making this a debate thread. I have an answer to this comment, but I'm not going to put it here in the interest of civility. If you want to continue the discussion, I suggest you PM someone. (I'm game)

See this is the problem. People make out religion to be the untouchable subject the second they can't answer questions brought forth. I don't care if you believe some fairy tale but don't try to shove it down my throat. You are free to believe what you want to and I am free to say why it is dumb. We are free to our own opinions, but don't tell us we can't talk about this. Everything has been civil so far so I think we can agree this can carry on.

this has been my experience as well. and it's funny that I've always been an atheist, but just recently started looking into Christianity and all of a sudden things start working out for me.

May be coincidence, I just find it interesting.

I had a burger this afternoon and then earned a 5K grant. I should worship a burger?

 

[202781]

I just got done watching "Religulous" with Bill Maher, and I must admit, I haven't laughed that much in a while. Even though his reasoning is questionable at times, his methods are hardly convincing (to true believers), and the whole movie does have the air of propaganda, there are some nuggets of truth that made me think about religion.

The nerd I am, I checked SDN for any new threads, and began to wonder how religion plays a role in the premed/application period. For me, religion played no role in this period, but I know of people who pray for acceptances.

So here is my question: how does/did religion play a role in your premed life and the application process? Any anecdotes would be welcome, too. I.e. do you pray for interviews, do you thank (a) god for acceptances you receive, do you turn to jesus for help when things aren't going well in Biochemistry? I just want to get a feel for how other people involve their religious beliefs in this part of their life. Do you plan to keep religion separate from your profession? Does an aspiring doctor have to be, at least somewhat, tolerant of other religious beliefs?

Any thoughts, experiences, insights, anecdotes would be much appreciated.

Dude, seriously. We've asked you to stop making this a debate thread. I have an answer to this comment, but I'm not going to put it here in the interest of civility. If you want to continue the discussion, I suggest you PM someone. (I'm game)

I am a Christian and have found I draw a lot of strength from the belief that God has a plan for me, and if I continue to trust in His plan, I will find peace wherever He decides I should go. While I deeply wanted an acceptance, I asked instead that His will be done, not mine. Luckily, he has blessed me with a spot in medical school.

I think my belief in an afterlife allows me to live with a looser grip on my own life, to live it without fear of losing it, so to speak. I will hope my patients can find the same peace. Though I would never directly preach to anyone who does not believe, I would be glad to pray with any patient that asks me to do so.

I feel like I am answering his question...if you look at the other posts I have made on this thread. If someone says something that I don't agree with I am going to speak my mind (like the child with cancer comment made earlier). I consider this a public service.

We have different views on life and I am absolutely going to speak out when someone says " This life < Heaven". That is TOTALLY unfounded and dangerous given the profession we will all be going into.

I have said it before and I will say it again. If you want to spend your time praying for an acceptance or something that is fine with me, it does not hurt me at all. But when people start saying things that will affect their patients or others in the world, I will say something and I will absolutely not apologize about it.

Your religion is not immune to criticism and questions just like my atheism is not immune to criticism and questions(I have been getting it since I was 5). There is a time and place for it though and I feel that give the nature of this thread and the responses posted, I should not be blamed or singled out for turning this thread into a debate.

 

[efitzpat]

See this is the problem. People make out religion to be the untouchable subject the second they can't answer questions brought forth. I don't care if you believe some fairy tale but don't try to shove it down my throat. You are free to believe what you want to and I am free to say why it is dumb. We are free to our own opinions, but don't tell us we can't talk about this. Everything has been civil so far so I think we can agree this can carry on.

I'm sorry but maybe we have different definitions of civility. I don't think saying a person's belief is dumb is being civil. Maybe its one of those darn values I learned from the Bible or Church.

Also, no one is trying to shove anything down your throat. People are simply responding to a question posed. You are the one starting a debate when this thread was about a simple question.

If you really want to tango, here is my question for you. If this is so dumb, then how come only an estimated 16% of the world population is not religious? How have religions stood the test of millennia, of historical verification of many peoples, places and events, and of constant diffraction and persecution? Sounds like billions of dumb people out there. Wow.

 

[202781]

I'm sorry but maybe we have different definitions of civility. I don't think saying a person's belief is dumb is being civil. Maybe its one of those darn values I learned from the Bible or Church.

Also, no one is trying to shove anything down your throat. People are simply responding to a question posed. You are the one starting a debate when this thread was about a simple question.

If you really want to tango, here is my question for you. If this is so dumb, then how come only an estimated 16% of the world population is not religious? How have religions stood the test of millennia, of historical verification of many peoples, places and events, and of constant diffraction and persecution? Sounds like billions of dumb people out there. Wow.

Just because a large number of people believe something does not make it true.




For instance:

• People once believed in Zeus
• People once thought the earth was flat
• People once thought earth was the center of the universe

I think that there is an evolutionary (probably not the best term to use 🙄) reason people are religious. It is a way of making like minded people not kill other people with the same beliefs. This also allowed them to be strong and have a united front against other groups or religions trying to invade their territory. This allowed people with seemingly nothing to lose take up arms to defend a town that was several towns away from where they lived.
There are billions of people out there (with different religions) who believe things based on NOTHING. So yeah, I think there are billions of people who are illogical or irrational (I would not use the term dumb though)

 

[202781]

See this is the problem. People make out religion to be the untouchable subject the second they can't answer questions brought forth. I don't care if you believe some fairy tale but don't try to shove it down my throat. You are free to believe what you want to and I am free to say why it is dumb. We are free to our own opinions, but don't tell us we can't talk about this. Everything has been civil so far so I think we can agree this can carry on.



I had a burger this afternoon and then earned a 5K grant. I should worship a burger?

Thank you CyclinM, I could not have said it better myself

 

[efitzpat]

How have religions stood the test of millennia, of historical verification of many peoples, places and events, and of constant diffraction and persecution?

• People once believed in Zeus
• People once thought the earth was flat
• People once thought earth was the center of the universe

Zeus = religious belief
Earth being flat = disproved by science
Geocentric universe = disproved by science.

Religion, unlike disproved scientific beliefs, as a whole still stands. Sure there are lots of "reasons" why it could be, but it still is.

I think the tough part of this thread comes with the whole discussion of death and things being "meant to be." I don't agree with what has been said here, per se. My mom died 6 years ago and I still can't find a good "reason" why, and I'll sucker punch anyone who tries to give me one. I believe heaven is a better place and am happy that she's there, however, I'd much rather she be here. BUT, just because I think heaven is going to rock, doesn't mean I'll ever let a patient die because I think I'm doing them a favor. It doesn't mean that my mom was thrilled to die despite a life long devotion to her faith.

 

[202781]

Zeus = religious belief
Earth being flat = disproved by science
Geocentric universe = disproved by science.

Religion, unlike disproved scientific beliefs, as a whole still stands. Sure there are lots of "reasons" why it could be, but it still is.

My point exactly...can you find ANYONE who still believes in Zeus?

Just because you can't disprove something does not make it true. (Think about the flying spaghetti monster http://www.venganza.org/ ) you cannot disprove that there is no all-powerful flying spaghetti monster...but that does not make it true.


I will leave you with a graph that I think explains my feelings towards religion and more specifically prayer.

 

[cyclin M]

I'm sorry but maybe we have different definitions of civility. I don't think saying a person's belief is dumb is being civil. Maybe its one of those darn values I learned from the Bible or Church.

Also, no one is trying to shove anything down your throat. People are simply responding to a question posed. You are the one starting a debate when this thread was about a simple question.

If you really want to tango, here is my question for you. If this is so dumb, then how come only an estimated 16% of the world population is not religious? How have religions stood the test of millennia, of historical verification of many peoples, places and events, and of constant diffraction and persecution? Sounds like billions of dumb people out there. Wow.

Too easy.

1. Instead of dumb how about I just say your belief is wrong? Seriously, when you're losing in a debate please don't make it so obvious by taking the civility route.

TIP: in the future when I say your beliefs are dumb/wrong don't just whine. At least stand up for what you believe in instead of hiding behind a cardboard box.

2. By trying to silence my views against your religious beliefs you are in essence shutting me up so your ideas can spread unchallenged aka, shoving it down my throat.

3. 16% of the world's pop is not religious? Does that surprise you? Most people around the world are uneducated and do not understand science so they rely on religion as a crutch to make sense of things.

4. Yes you hit the nail on the head. Billions of people, not dumb, just ignorant. I don't understand what you mean religion has been verified. I do not deny the validiy of its existence. I just deny the validity of all the fairy tales in your book that you try to pass off as fact.

5. Religion was created to control the masses plain and simple.

6. Religion is built on the desire for power and inequality. Think about this. We have some guy here who gets to say what happens after we die and he's the authority on all this. Who gives him this authority? How can he say he knows more about what happens after death than I do? I don't mind people saying they don't know. But when they pretend to know and pretend they have more authority on this subject than everyone else just because they get to wear a funny little hat...that's absurd.

7. Death better than life? Wrong. If this were true the Pope wouldn't ride around in a bullet proof car. He'd let God decide his fate. But he doesn't because he knows its all BS. And even though on this forum you say you live freely, I KNOW everytime you cross the street you look both ways.

In any case, I just wanted to share my views with you so you can understand where I'm coming from. As one last piece of input I would like to point out how none of your religious folk have answered my question into why little kids get cancer. Yeah one guy said dying is better than living, but I'm sure even he knows it's a BS answer. Other people have said it's "too complex" to explain or "God has a reason". Ask yourself, are these reasons? That's all I had to say, hope you can see where I'm coming from now.

 

[189362]

I promise not all religious people are silly and childish about it... 🙂 I, for one, do not pray for specific "things" like med school acceptances -- seems too much to me like whining to a parent for presents or something. But, I do pray for strength and comfort during difficult times, and med school applications are an example of that.

Realy, well put. Your faith shouldn't besomething you apply to given situations. Faith should be applied in everyday life. Im not saying I go around praising God for everything, but I try to live in a way that would be pleasing to him.

I do feel like having a spiritual/faith based support for all of the challenges in life (including medical school) has helped develop my character and stregnthen a choices.

 

[wakeboarder56]

Too easy.
Other people have said it's "too complex" to explain or "God has a reason". Ask yourself, are these reasons? I rest my case.

This is a fallen world, as I have said before (read above) people are created for good and evil. The girl dying of cancer brought glory to God. Some will say how could a innocent girl dying by such a horrible disease bring glory to God or as some people in the public eye have said how could God let so many die in the World Trade Centers or Katrina. The answer is that if by these people dying someone else would come to believe in God then his will has been accomplished. Most will say this is not fair or just, and it may not be in our eyes, but where was it ever written that life is fair. God shows mercy to those of us he wants and hardships on the rest to bring glory to himself. The truth about christianity is that some will believe and some won't, and God made us that way.

 

[RySerr21]

Yes!! Finally.....i was thinking to myself "its about that time that someone posts a thread about religion" and then BAM, the next day it is here. God must have heard my thoughts and granted me this joyous occasion to satisfy my amusement. 😍


Like usual, this thread will turn into a completely useless debate about the doctrinal beliefs of religion(s). Whether you agree with this aspect of religion or not (i'm speaking as an athiest here), most people, and most discussions about religion, fail to touch on the other dimensions of religion that may or may not play a HUGE role in the religious experience for each individual(mythical, experiental, ethical, social, cultural, etc).

p.s. religulous does seem like an awesome movie and i want to see it one day.

 

[202781]

This is a fallen world, as I have said before (read above) people are created for good and evil. The girl dying of cancer brought glory to God. Some will say how could a innocent girl dying by such a horrible disease bring glory to God or as some people in the public eye have said how could God let so many die in the World Trade Centers or Katrina. The answer is that if by these people dying someone else would come to believe in God then his will has been accomplished. Most will say this is not fair or just, and it may not be in our eyes, but where was it ever written that life is fair. God shows mercy to those of us he wants and hardships on the rest to bring glory to himself. The truth about christianity is that some will believe and some won't, and God made us that way.

This honestly scares me! I would not let you anywhere my family or myself if I came into a hospital you worked at.

 

[189362]

As one last piece of input I would like to point out how none of your religious folk have answered my question into why little kids get cancer. Yeah one guy said dying is better than living, but I'm sure even he knows it's a BS answer. Other people have said it's "too complex" to explain or "God has a reason". Ask yourself, are these reasons? That's all I had to say, hope you can see where I'm coming from now.

Really so we leave it to you to ask the existential question; why little kids get cancer? Give a break man, who are you to ask the question?

You say God can't br proven, fine. Can you disprove God's existence?

Hey listen its fine that you don't believe in a higher power. Honestly, I could care less. But you come on here and spray you BS. nonsense about how the other poster has to resort to the "Civility" defense meachanism, when in fact you are not being civil. NO one is asking you why don't you believe.

Also no one is forcing anything on you regardless of what you say, Its on here you choose to read it - thats your choice. Grow up

16% of the world pop doesnt practice religion does that surprise me?

Yea it does the numbers speak for themselves and to base the fact that the other 84% is ignorant to science and that the only reason they believe is absurd.

 

[airplanes]

This is a fallen world, as I have said before (read above) people are created for good and evil. The girl dying of cancer brought glory to God. Some will say how could a innocent girl dying by such a horrible disease bring glory to God or as some people in the public eye have said how could God let so many die in the World Trade Centers or Katrina. The answer is that if by these people dying someone else would come to believe in God then his will has been accomplished. Most will say this is not fair or just, and it may not be in our eyes, but where was it ever written that life is fair. God shows mercy to those of us he wants and hardships on the rest to bring glory to himself. The truth about christianity is that some will believe and some won't, and God made us that way.

😕
That's an F'ed up world view man. The innocent don't deserve to suffer. I started a thread over in SP about a family that let their 8 year old daughter die from treatable diabetes because they refused to take her to a medical professional...they believed in Faith Healing instead so they prayed. She didn't have to die. I see no glory in the death of that precious child and I strongly disagree with your post.

The problem I have with religion is that every single culture has their own. who are you to say one is right or another is wrong. I'm resigned to the fact that is is a human societal creation and based on our natural belief that there must be some higher power or higher meaning to our existence.

 

[cyclin M]

This is a fallen world, as I have said before (read above) people are created for good and evil. The girl dying of cancer brought glory to God. Some will say how could a innocent girl dying by such a horrible disease bring glory to God or as some people in the public eye have said how could God let so many die in the World Trade Centers or Katrina. The answer is that if by these people dying someone else would come to believe in God then his will has been accomplished. Most will say this is not fair or just, and it may not be in our eyes, but where was it ever written that life is fair. God shows mercy to those of us he wants and hardships on the rest to bring glory to himself. The truth about christianity is that some will believe and some won't, and God made us that way.

I will echo the others in hoping you never have someone's life in your hands.

Really so we leave it to you to ask the existential question; why little kids get cancer? Give a break man, who are you to ask the question?

Still no answer. I win.

You say God can't br proven, fine. Can you disprove God's existence?

Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

 

[wakeboarder56]

This honestly scares me! I would not let you anywhere my family or myself if I came into a hospital you worked at.

Please read my above post, this is what the bible says but yet I am also human. To me cancer is one of the worst diseases (would actually like to be a pediatric oncologist, you tell me how you would cope if you believed these children died for no reason) and never did I say I would not do everything in my power to save the girls life nor would I ever push my beliefs on any one of my patients. I believe that everyone is entitled to make their own decisions as to what they do or do not believe, I am just quoting what I believe as a christian. The fact is if one was to walk into a hospital and follow around any number of doctors (besides an abortion clinic) you would probably not be able to guess if they are a christian or not. That is like me saying I would not let you treat me because you did not share my beliefs? If you are a competent doctor and treat my disease I do not care what your eternal beliefs are I just would like for you to make me better without pushing your beliefs on me.

 

[202781]

Please read my above post, this is what the bible says but yet I am also human. To me cancer is one of the worst diseases (would actually like to be a pediatric oncologist, you tell me how you would cope if you believed these children died for no reason) and never did I say I would not do everything in my power to save the girls life nor would I ever push my beliefs on any one of my patients. I believe that everyone is entitled to make their own decisions as to what they do or do not believe, I am just quoting what I believe as a christian. The fact is if one was to walk into a hospital and follow around any number of doctors (besides an abortion clinic) you would probably not be able to guess if they are a christian or not. That is like me saying I would not let you treat me because you did not share my beliefs? If you are a competent doctor and treat my disease I do not care what your eternal beliefs are I just would like for you to make me better without pushing your beliefs on me.

And I (a rational and compassionate person) am just stating why your beliefs scare the living crap out of me.

 

[wakeboarder56]

😕
That's an F'ed up world view man. The innocent don't deserve to suffer. I started a thread over in SP about a family that let their 8 year old daughter die from treatable diabetes because they refused to take her to a medical professional...they believed in Faith Healing instead so they prayed. She didn't have to die. I see no glory in the death of that precious child and I strongly disagree with your post.

The problem I have with religion is that every single culture has their own. who are you to say one is right or another is wrong. I'm resigned to the fact that is is a human societal creation and based on our natural belief that there must be some higher power or higher meaning to our existence.

And I agree with you that those people where stupid to say the least. God gave us common sense, that is like me saying I am not going to study for an exam and trust God will provide me with the knowledge to get an A (should be studying now 😱), but thats not going to happen. God believes in hard work and working for what you earn I echo the others on here, I pray for God's will to be done in my life but not for him to help me on an exam or anything else that specific. I do not believe that God is just going to heal someone but that is why he created people like the ones on this forum, smart people who will use the gifts he gave them to care for and heal others.

 

[189362]

I will echo the others in hoping you never have someone's life in your hands.



Still no answer. I win.



Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

Really first you back your atheism in a form of som BS stat, now wikipedia.

I dont understand why people who argue against religion think that the "celestial teapot" is the end to the conversation you still haven't disproved God's existence. Its just a copout.

All it is just a description of the unprovability of a negative hypothesis, as in it is extraordinarily difficult to prove the non-existence of something, other than to prove the existence of it and hence the hypothesis is false... ie: if we found God or a celestial teapot then we have proved that it doesnt not exist.

Faith is my personal proof - refute that.

 

[202781]

Really so we leave it to you to ask the existential question; why little kids get cancer? Give a break man, who are you to ask the question?

You say God can't br proven, fine. Can you disprove God's existence?

Hey listen its fine that you don't believe in a higher power. Honestly, I could care less. But you come on here and spray you BS. nonsense about how the other poster has to resort to the "Civility" defense meachanism, when in fact you are not being civil. NO one is asking you why don't you believe.

Also no one is forcing anything on you regardless of what you say, Its on here you choose to read it - thats your choice. Grow up

16% of the world pop doesnt practice religion does that surprise me?

Yea it does the numbers speak for themselves and to base the fact that the other 84% is ignorant to science and that the only reason they believe is absurd.

PLEASE read the post that CyclinM put up...or the one that I put up earlier. You cannot disprove either of them.

You cannot disprove that I am flying around my room right now shooting lightning out of my feet...you cannot disprove that. My point is just because you cannot disprove something does not make it true. Come on guys don't we all have a science background? This is not how science is done.

 

[phospho]

I'm catholic...don't practice much... but i really do think that things happen for a reason...this application cycle is the perfect example. You don't go to the school you like - you go where you are meant to. Many professors have told me the same thing. Whatever that "force" is doing this, I sure hope s/he on my side.😀

 

[202781]

Really first you back your atheism in a form of som BS stat, now wikipedia... Im not even going waste my time.

There are more facts on wikipedia than there are in the bible.

The link is not supposed to be "accurate" it is more of an excercise for your brain (something that you might want to try)

 

[189362]

PLEASE read the post that CyclinM put up...or the one that I put up earlier. You cannot disprove either of them.

You cannot disprove that I am flying around my room right now shooting lightning out of my feet...you cannot disprove that. My point is just because you cannot disprove something does not make it true. Come on guys don't we all have a science background? This is not how science is done.

Science and religon are different. Before my science backgroud I have my base in faith.

I just dont understand why this thread went the way it did. NO one was telling you to believe n anything. People were just responding to the original poster. You and megaman decided that it was your cue to change believers into non-believers, like I haven't heard the arguments before.

Do you have a problem with me believing in God? Does it bother you? You wanna talk about it?

 

[Siverhideo1985]

I'm sorry, but this thread has deteriorated.

It seems impossible to tell others of your beliefs and experiences without someone on here taking offense and feeling the need to put you down for what you said.

As a "non-believer" I wanted to know how other people who are of a religion/faith have been influenced by their beliefs in this period of their lives. For those of you who shared, thank you. I liked hearing your side of the story.

It is always easier to think that we are right, that we have it all figured out. It is easier to think that the person who thinks different than us, has got it all backwards. It is much harder to listen to someone who has different beliefs and ideas, accept them for who they are and how they think, and respect their decisions and attitudes. I personally don't believe "a god" but I can respect those who do.

For those of you who have been overly critical of religious beliefs expressed in this thread: you should realize that a large part of your patient population will have similar religious beliefs as these SDNers. In order to truly care for a person, you will have to accept and respect these beliefs. That does not mean you have to embrace them or believe in them yourself. It means to extend the respect to other people that you expect them to extend towards you.

“Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument an exchange of ignorance.” - Robert Quillen

If you still feel like it, do keep sharing your thoughts and experiences. All else...find some other thread to blow off steam.

 

[189362]

There are more facts on wikipedia than there are in the bible.

The link is not supposed to be "accurate" it is more of an excercise for your brain (something that you might want to try)

ok, I wasn't saying that there aren't. I was stating that wikipedia isn't always the most credible source.

(in a real whiny voice)

"Cmon guys dont we all have a background in science"

 

[202781]

ok, I wasn't saying that there aren't. I was stating that wikipedia isn't always the most credible source.

(in a real whiny voice)

Uhh... And the point I was trying to make was that the bible is NOT a credible source.
Stuff on Wikipedia was written in the las couple years (yeah there are some things that are wrong but I would say that most of the stuff is correct)
Stuff in the bible was written 2000 years ago by several different people who did not even live at the time "Jesus" lived! Could I write a First hand account of someone who lived and died 20 to 150 years before I was even born.

In regards to the Bold part of the quote. I think you were trying to mock me. But it really made you sound ignorant (And I am someone who LOVES mocking people and being mocked...so that is how bad it was)...Also you violated a rule of quoting people which says do not change the quote

 

[189362]

Yea, thats what I was saying that wiki is a more credible source than the bible. The bible is written by man handed down through generations - things get changed.

None the less we both know that there are flaws in wikipedia. Thats why I mocked you for your science comment.

Now Im really curious as to why you are trying to descredit my beliefs?
Because we don't know each other at all, from anywhere? And maybe it isn't directly aimed at me but in general, do you normally just argue with people about religion? Are you that guy...?

 

[mipp0]

Oh man, SCIENCE AND RELIGION ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

We are all going to have different perspectives on and interpretations of different religious beliefs, but I think some of you are being blatantly disrespectful.

Intolerance goes both ways. For Mr.funkymonkeytoes, maybe you are not going to be doctor, because you were never meant to be a doctor. Maybe you can do greater things in another field? Who knows? Who has all the answers?

It's funny how just a change in perspective can lead you to come to a different conclusion.

Is it "plausible" that religion is a product of evolution? A product of society to control the masses? You can argue that it is.

Is it "plausible" that there are some things in life that transcend human understanding? I would argue that it is. That there is a God? I would say, yes.

We can agree to disagree. But we can disagree without being disagreeable, especially on such a sensitive topic. No one has all the answers. That's where faith comes in.

 

[NDPitch]

I've only briefly skimmed this topic, but I'll just get right to the point.

No, I have not had any religious affiliation with my pre-med experience. I'm not a religious man, at all.

Personally, at a rudimentary level, I equate religion with believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. Many people are raised under a certain religion, and I think their faith is correlated with how they were brought up and what they were "taught" to believe when they were young. Except, unlike discovering Santa's non-existence, they keep their faith throughout life because no one can ever prove to them that their god doesn't exist.

Essentially what I'm saying is that, for me, these two statements similar:

1) There is a person that lives at the north pole who visits every man, woman, and child in one night - every year. He accomplishes this by utilizing flying reindeer for travel, and magic to levitate up and down chimneys.

2) There is a being that exists in the sky and/or the vast expanse of the universe. No one can see him. This being takes care of everyone, at all times, in the entire universe. This being can hear everyone's thoughts, and magically answers people's requests.

For me, if you just stand back and examine each statement - both are ridiculous. I'm not knocking anyone for believing in a higher being - all the power to you. I went to a Catholic high school, and took religion classes and attended school masses, but right from the start - none of it was logical and/or believable for me.

 

[DrSno]

Oh man, SCIENCE AND RELIGION ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

One day science will hopefully be able to tell us why certain people are religious.

 

[202781]

Yea, thats what I was saying that wiki is a more credible source than the bible. The bible is written by man handed down through generations - things get changed.

None the less we both know that there are flaws in wikipedia. Thats why I mocked you for your science comment.

Now Im really curious as to why you are trying to descredit my beliefs?
Because we don't know each other at all, from anywhere? And maybe it isn't directly aimed at me but in general, do you normally just argue with people about religion? Are you that guy...?

Yeah...uhh so the same reason it would be stupid to believe something JUST based on wikipedia is the same reason that it is stupid to believe something JUST because it is in the bible.

I argue with people about religion because whether you can understand it or not, religion affects people who are not religious. Until this stops, I will continue to speak out against religion in this respect.

I could care less if someone is PERSONALLY religious (in a way that does not affect other people).

 

[mipp0]

It's true the Bible was written near 2,000 years ago, but it's also true that there were many religious groups (Jewish society among others) with compelling reasons to discredit Biblical events at the time. You have to understand that there were countless witnesses to these "miracles" (or events--depends on your perspective, but regardless...), many of whom were from these religious factions (we're talking about totally polar views and ideologies); if these events never happened, these religious factions could easily capitalize on this, and Christianity would have ended 2,000 years ago.

So you can't dismiss its "Scriptural" validity so easily. There are a lot of complicating factors, many of which you and I are both ignorant about.

Of course I simplified the circumstances, but you'll have to forgive me if I don't look to you as the resident expert/prominent authority figure on the matter. I'm no expert as well. So you should look into Christian history more thoroughly (and more objectively--"The God that didn't exist" doesn't count). I explored the matter years ago (when I was a evolutionary Darwinist) out of curiosity. Was I converted immediately? No, of course not. But I learned that there's more to "history" than meets the eye.

Anyway, I hope I was respectful throughout this post. I don't do justice in defending the faith, but hopefully I did open some eyes. After my midterms, hopefully we can talk about this further.

 

[Dissected]

One day science will hopefully be able to tell us why certain people are religious.

eehh...I don't think you and I will ever live to see that day. And if we do discover this, what will it tell us? That some people are more apt to believe in a higher power than others? ...uh, duh!

I argue with people about religion because whether you can understand it or not, religion affects people who are not religious. Until this stops, I will continue to speak out against religion in this respect.

I could care less if someone is PERSONALLY religious (in a way that does not affect other people).

This is the disconnect between the Church and actual religious faith that absolutely sucks. I hate the way that the "church" and bigtime "televangelists/megachurch preachers" totally taint Christainity. I personally apologize for them, they are not a good example at all of what christianity is supposed to be, and I can see why 'religion' as it is painted today could leave a bad taste in your mouth. If all Christians really followed the Bible, they would be tolerant and loving towards everyone. Personal religious faith is what the Bible is founded upon, and if it were to affect other people at all, it would be positively (non-judgemental, supportive, patient, kind, yadda yadda). Instead people get on their high horse and get a 'holier than though' complex which disgusts me. I only ask that you direct your protest to the injustice that is the overall judgemental and extreme wing of the Church, and not to those of us who are really trying to make a positive difference in this world because we believe that our God told us to love our neighbors. So hate the establishment, not the believer 🙂

 

[virusgirl]

Sankondbest, I'm a little confused. You say you don't care if someone is personally religious, but you've also said that you're "scared" of people who believe that the afterlife is a positive thing and wouldn't want to be treated by someone who felt that way (I think that was the basic gist of it, and I apologize if I haven't represented your beliefs properly... this thread has gone on for a long time!).

I do believe in Heaven, and I believe that it's a good place. But the fact is, we're all alive right now, which means that for whatever reason, G-d wants us to putter around on earth for awhile. To me, this means that life is a good thing that I should strive to preserve and protect as a doctor, and as such, if you ever end up on my operating table, I am not going to approach your surgery with the cavalier attitude that if I get sloppy, it doesn't matter because I'll just send you to Heaven that much faster.

I understand your dislike for having religion imposed on you by others, and I feel the same way -- as a Jew with a recently-born-again Christian mother, I hear a lot about how I'll burn in hell if I don't accept Jesus. But religious people like that are the minority; they just tend to be very vocal and obnoxious and give all of us people of faith a bad name. If you met me on the street, or if you were my patient, you would probably have no idea what, if any, religion I practiced. I do think some of your posts on this thread have tended towards generalization and stereotyping, and just as you should be free to be as un-religious as you like, other people should also be free to practice whatever faith they choose -- and everyone should be respectful and not call the other side "dumb" or "childish" or anything like that.

 

[drbeck]

while i do believe heaven is going to be much better than earth, i also believe that it is not up to us to take away anyone's life including our own...we should do everything in our power as doctors to keep our patients alive and healthy b/c it will be up to God in the end. at least as chrsitians, we have a reason to do what is right over what is wrong. without believing in God, why is there any reason to do what's right.

"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." -Gandhi

 

[funkymunkytoes]

Reading this entire thread makes me fearful of my future colleagues. People on this thread are loony!!!

 

[funkydrmonkey]

Reading this entire thread makes me fearful of my future colleagues. People on this thread are loony!!!

I agree. I have my beliefs, and I am entitled to them... Others have their beliefs, and they are entitled to them, but if you start attacking me for having my beliefs... well, you need to check up on the freedom of religion that is listed in the First Amendment...

 

[rjf]

Sankonbest and CyclinM...please stop posting on this thread.

The purpose of this thread for religious pre-meds to comment on how their religion has/will play a role in their professional lives as doctors. Obviously, neither one of you have anything to add to this discussion because you think religion is a joke. Why are you talking on this thread when neither of you is religious? How does this specific thread pertain to you? One of you said in a previous post that you have nothing against religion but hate it when someone tries to shove it down your throat. Then why are you both trying to shove your anti-religion comments down ours? Many of the comments you two are making are extremely offensive to those that have a strong faith so I am asking you to please stop.

 

[OldSchooler]

One day science will hopefully be able to tell us why certain people are religious.

Or why some people like the Gilmore Girls, which may be the greater mystery.