THE SOAP 2013 Thread

[MS10121987]

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I share the same sentiments that this thread has been nothing short of a godsend, albeit, I have just been trolling like a thuggish lurker. Thanks to all. 🙂

Here's a question that I don't think anyone has addressed? Is the list of unfilled programs going to be continually updated? In other words, how are we going to avoid wasting our 2nd and 3rd round applications? If a program that had only one position available fills it soon after the first round of offers, I surely don't want to blow an application on it. Any ideas?

They update it after each round. So you'll know because those spots won't be there.

 

[game24]

Welp. 2048 and 0/30 still. EFFFFFFF.

I keep running over everything I could have done wrong in my head. Failed a couple classes in first year, but passed everything else and killed third year and fourth year so far. Did pretty well on USMLE Step 1 and 2 which I took even though I'm graduating from a DO school. Didn't do well on the COMLEX though.

Oh well. Nothing I can do now, which I know. I'm just trying to hold on to the (rapidly fading) glimmer of hope that I'll get an offer without getting contact. I know it's not going to happen. 👎

Good night everyone! Good luck tomorrow!

I thought DOs were pretty much guaranteed to get something since 70% get an NRMP match and the rest get a spot in the AOA match?

 

[tachycardia44]

I share the same sentiments that this thread has been nothing short of a godsend, albeit, I have just been trolling like a thuggish lurker. Thanks to all. 🙂

Here's a question that I don't think anyone has addressed? Is the list of unfilled programs going to be continually updated? In other words, how are we going to avoid wasting our 2nd and 3rd round applications? If a program that had only one position available fills it soon after the first round of offers, I surely don't want to blow an application on it. Any ideas?

updates are real time...

 

[dolhan16]

I completely agree. It is so frustrating to be a US grad (almost), a quarter of a million in debt and possibly not have a job. All the more frustrating is many programs justify accepting FMG over AMG because of the upcoming doctor shortage and meanwhile US grads are getting shafted. Having worked with quite a few FMG as a student, boards scores of 250+ does not automatically equate superior patient care. I'm sure I will get a lot of hate but I really wish NRMP+SOAP was only open to AMG and CMG initially.

Got one more IM cat interview at around 7pm ET. >15 mins. the usual what happened? can you/will you be willing to relocate? explain intentions for next year (I think because I originally applied for something more competitive and it would be pretty obvious I need with my application). No guarantee. I was told they were calling as many applicants as possible and they were just as nervous about being unfilled (doubt it).

Fully agree with you on the board scores. But I have also worked with some AMGs (I am a US IMG) who were arrogant, lazy, and did not care about their patients. So I guess its really person specific

 

[foley12]

Fully agree with you on the board scores. But I have also worked with some AMGs (I am a US IMG) who were arrogant, lazy, and did not care about their patients. So I guess its really person specific

Somehow I think that those people probably matched. It's the ones with questionable board scores who are in trouble.

 

[CDI]

I completely agree. It is so frustrating to be a US grad (almost), a quarter of a million in debt and possibly not have a job. All the more frustrating is many programs justify accepting FMG over AMG because of the upcoming doctor shortage and meanwhile US grads are getting shafted. Having worked with quite a few FMG as a student, boards scores of 250+ does not automatically equate superior patient care. I'm sure I will get a lot of hate but I really wish NRMP+SOAP was only open to AMG and CMG initially.

Aright xenophobe, relax. You'll get your spot, no need to take it out on hard-working IMGs.

The doctor shortage has nothing to do with AMG over IMGs.

IMGs (new-age FMGs) are not even able to look at most programs AMGs can look at, and they accept that fact.

Even the ones with 250+ are going to sub-par programs filled with IMGs already, and some times even the attendings and PDs are IMGs themselves. They'll probably fit in great. And "superior patient care", that's a joke, its all the same in primary care fields.

 

[CDI]

Why do residencies accept non-US IMGs? It makes more sense to first accept AMGs then have the left over spots for US IMGs. Taxpayers help pay for these spots right?

What taxpayer wants to float the salary of a sub-par candidate?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

if aPD is still around, could you shed some light about previous scramble processes? Do programs offer spots without contact? What does a contact really mean? etc

We only have last year to examine (since that's when SOAP started) and not lots of data. In general, programs are going to want to at least talk to you before offering a spot. Programs may review many applications, but only a small number (equal to the number of open spots) gets an offer in SOAP. So, if you get no interest via email / call, I think your chances of getting an offer are very small -- there apparently is a thread from last year where someone says this happened to them. There's no statistics about what your chances of getting an offer are based upon the number of calls/email contacts you get in SOAP.

I share the same sentiments that this thread has been nothing short of a godsend, albeit, I have just been trolling like a thuggish lurker. Thanks to all. 🙂

Here's a question that I don't think anyone has addressed? Is the list of unfilled programs going to be continually updated? In other words, how are we going to avoid wasting our 2nd and 3rd round applications? If a program that had only one position available fills it soon after the first round of offers, I surely don't want to blow an application on it. Any ideas?

It is updated at the end of each round. This creates a bit of a problem -- you'll get 10 more applications starting tomorrow at noon. The 1st offer round also starts at noon. You can wait to apply to another 10 programs until after the first round is done and the list is updated (at sometime after 2PM). But in that case, your application is unlikely to be considered for the second round (which is from 3PM - 5PM). And looking at data from last year's SOAP, the vast majority of spots were gone by the end of round 2. Hence, I'd recommend using your additional 10 applications right at 12 noon. By the time you get the information of what spots are left after round 1, there won't be much time until round 2.

 

[Ogenki]

So my third interview threw me a curveball calling at 9pm instead of 8pm like I predicted earlier. Yes, 9pm! I'm wondering if its okay to sleep tonight in case I get a phone call and don't wake up.

So far 2 fms, 1 anesthesiology, and a roll of the dice whether any of them will offer me...

My future specialty will be decided by what program offers me first? Or if none of them do, I probably apply just to FM next year (I'm okay with it.)

 

[sella turcica]

It is updated at the end of each round. This creates a bit of a problem -- you'll get 10 more applications starting tomorrow at noon. The 1st offer round also starts at noon. You can wait to apply to another 10 programs until after the first round is done and the list is updated (at sometime after 2PM). But in that case, your application is unlikely to be considered for the second round (which is from 3PM - 5PM). And looking at data from last year's SOAP, the vast majority of spots were gone by the end of round 2. Hence, I'd recommend using your additional 10 applications right at 12 noon. By the time you get the information of what spots are left after round 1, there won't be much time until round 2.

That is killer advice! Thanks! This is probably a stupid question, but if we are offered a spot I'm assuming they'll email us as well as put it on ERAS?

 

[MadHopsMD]

this is so sad. AMG going into FM. Had 15 interviews, went to 9. ranked 9. and I did not match. amazing. feel like **** turning down the 6 interviews. but really, i got good vibes from all the places. three of them gave me a letter saying "we like you". How can i not match???

currenlty 0 out of 30. my god, FM must have been competitive this year...

 

[game24]

What taxpayer wants to float the salary of a sub-par candidate?

Because the sub-par candidate was born in this country and paid taxes in this country. Jobs
in America should go to American citizens.

 

[Illinoisgrad]

Somehow I think that those people probably matched. It's the ones with questionable board scores who are in trouble.

I'm sure they did. There were people in my class like that. It was frustrating that I busted my butt, while others didn't even write notes half the time on their rotations. Some students would disappear during certain rotations, or call in sick a bunch of times, all at once. It got so bad that one department had to change their rules about what med students are expected to do on that rotation. Pretty much all of the classmates who were being lazy, etc matched except for one guy.

 

[DrSDR]

I share the same sentiments that this thread has been nothing short of a godsend, albeit, I have just been trolling like a thuggish lurker. Thanks to all. 🙂

Here's a question that I don't think anyone has addressed? Is the list of unfilled programs going to be continually updated? In other words, how are we going to avoid wasting our 2nd and 3rd round applications? If a program that had only one position available fills it soon after the first round of offers, I surely don't want to blow an application on it. Any ideas?

I'm pretty sure (though this is my first time in a match/soap) that when the first round of offers comes in at 12 and finish at 2pm...the unfilled positions tab will show the remaining programs with unmatched seats. Then for cycle 2 the same update after the 2 hours and so on til its dwindled down to nothing. Hope that answers your question.

 

[Illinoisgrad]

We only have last year to examine (since that's when SOAP started) and not lots of data. In general, programs are going to want to at least talk to you before offering a spot. Programs may review many applications, but only a small number (equal to the number of open spots) gets an offer in SOAP. So, if you get no interest via email / call, I think your chances of getting an offer are very small -- there apparently is a thread from last year where someone says this happened to them. There's no statistics about what your chances of getting an offer are based upon the number of calls/email contacts you get in SOAP.



It is updated at the end of each round. This creates a bit of a problem -- you'll get 10 more applications starting tomorrow at noon. The 1st offer round also starts at noon. You can wait to apply to another 10 programs until after the first round is done and the list is updated (at sometime after 2PM). But in that case, your application is unlikely to be considered for the second round (which is from 3PM - 5PM). And looking at data from last year's SOAP, the vast majority of spots were gone by the end of round 2. Hence, I'd recommend using your additional 10 applications right at 12 noon. By the time you get the information of what spots are left after round 1, there won't be much time until round 2.

That's good to know, because I probably would have waited until things were updated. The only problem with that though, is that you could possibly waste all 10 of your applications on places that had already filled after round 1.

 

[foley12]

this is so sad. AMG going into FM. Had 15 interviews, went to 9. ranked 9. and I did not match. amazing. feel like **** turning down the 6 interviews. but really, i got good vibes from all the places. three of them gave me a letter saying "we like you". How can i not match???

currenlty 0 out of 30. my god, FM must have been competitive this year...

Wow. That is pretty harsh. Hate to ask but any red flags? Best of luck.

 

[CDI]

Because the sub-par candidate was born in this country and paid taxes in this country. Jobs
in America should go to American citizens.

Ah, entitlement...

Better yet, let's just auction off the last remaining spots. May the richest US citizen win! (Since they're paying more, they deserve it right?)

 

[SpringWater]

It is updated at the end of each round. This creates a bit of a problem -- you'll get 10 more applications starting tomorrow at noon. The 1st offer round also starts at noon. You can wait to apply to another 10 programs until after the first round is done and the list is updated (at sometime after 2PM). But in that case, your application is unlikely to be considered for the second round (which is from 3PM - 5PM). And looking at data from last year's SOAP, the vast majority of spots were gone by the end of round 2. Hence, I'd recommend using your additional 10 applications right at 12 noon. By the time you get the information of what spots are left after round 1, there won't be much time until round 2.

I can't seem to remove myself from my computer and this forum.

@aProgDirector If we send out an additional 10 at noon and come to find that when list is updated at 2 that the majority of those spots were filled, wouldn't we run the chance of wasting our 10 apps for the day right? And do you think the programs would actually download and look through applications again in between offer periods? I'm so confused as to when would be most optimal to send out more apps.

 

[chudat]

Welp. 2048 and 0/30 still. EFFFFFFF.

I keep running over everything I could have done wrong in my head. Failed a couple classes in first year, but passed everything else and killed third year and fourth year so far. Did pretty well on USMLE Step 1 and 2 which I took even though I'm graduating from a DO school. Didn't do well on the COMLEX though.

Oh well. Nothing I can do now, which I know. I'm just trying to hold on to the (rapidly fading) glimmer of hope that I'll get an offer without getting contact. I know it's not going to happen. 👎

Good night everyone! Good luck tomorrow!

Dude what did you apply for? And how good was your USMLE?

Can you still scramble for AOA spots?

 

[FMDoc13]

I can't seem to remove myself from my computer and this forum.

@aProgDirector If we send out an additional 10 at noon and come to find that when list is updated at 2 that the majority of those spots were filled, wouldn't we run the chance of wasting our 10 apps for the day right? And do you think the programs would actually download and look through applications again in between offer periods? I'm so confused as to when would be most optimal to send out more apps.

this is my fear as well.... I would hold off, since the fear of wasting my 10 apps is greater. Plus I think in each offer series they can send only once, so programs will send their offers and if people decline they cannot resend until the next wave.

 

[deleted128562]

Aright xenophobe, relax. You'll get your spot, no need to take it out on hard-working IMGs.

The doctor shortage has nothing to do with AMG over IMGs.

IMGs (new-age FMGs) are not even able to look at most programs AMGs can look at, and they accept that fact.

Even the ones with 250+ are going to sub-par programs filled with IMGs already, and some times even the attendings and PDs are IMGs themselves. They'll probably fit in great. And "superior patient care", that's a joke, its all the same in primary care fields.

Right, anyone who disagrees with your point of view must be some kind of "-phobe". Strong debate skills there, highly intellectual.

The US is a very strange and pretty rare country in the way we take care of other countries' citizens before considering our own. Most countries will not allow a foreigner to take a job from a citizen. If this is xenophobia then you need to report most of the world's countries to the UN.

People fail to think big picture past just the job itself. We were all told that globalization and outsourcing would be great for US workers because it would allow us to focus on more high-tech jobs etc, and would drive prices down. Hows that working out? Go talk to the citizens of places like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Detroit (hell just about anywhere) and ask them if they would prefer the employment prospects and purchasing power of 50 years ago, 25 years ago or today. Saving $5 on a product made in China instead of the US doesn't mean much when you don't have a job or your wage is the same in real dollars as it was 15 years ago.... or when half your city has become a crime-ridden rundown slum.

So now we will apply this to your question of what taxpayer would want to fund the "subpar" US applicant over the "better" FMG? Probably the taxpayer who doesn't want to be stuck witj the unmatched AMG/ USIMG's defaulted student loans, wants their own kid to be able to use their hard earned degree, doesn't want to pay welfare benefits for unemployed US MDs, and knows that loss of American jobs doesn't exactly have a fantastic long-term track record.

If you think it is xenophobic for a country to put its own citizens first, then what is the point of even having a country? Lets just shut down all borders and be citizens of the planet, right?

 

[Dral]

Right, anyone who disagrees with your point of view must be some kind of "-phobe". Strong debate skills there, highly intellectual.

The US is a very strange and pretty rare country in the way we take care of other countries' citizens before considering our own. Most countries will not allow a foreigner to take a job from a citizen. If this is xenophobia then you need to report most of the world's countries to the UN.

People fail to think big picture past just the job itself. We were all told that globalization and outsourcing would be great for US workers because it would allow us to focus on more high-tech jobs etc, and would drive prices down. Hows that working out? Go talk to the citizens of places like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Detroit (hell just about anywhere) and ask them if they would prefer the employment prospects and purchasing power of 50 years ago, 25 years ago or today. Saving $5 on a product made in China instead of the US doesn't mean much when you don't have a job or your wage is the same in real dollars as it was 15 years ago.... or when half your city has become a crime-ridden rundown slum.

So now we will apply this to your question of what taxpayer would want to fund the "subpar" US applicant over the "better" FMG? Probably the taxpayer who doesn't want to be stuck witj the unmatched AMG/ USIMG's defaulted student loans, wants their own kid to be able to use their hard earned degree, doesn't want to pay welfare benefits for unemployed US MDs, and knows that loss of American jobs doesn't exactly have a fantastic long-term track record.

If you think it is xenophobic for a country to put its own citizens first, then what is the point of even having a country? Lets just shut down all borders and be citizens of the planet, right?

Sorry folks, I know stress and tempers are high, but I gotta agree with this. Until we truly have a state of global medicine ( if ever), we gotta bank on our own citizens.

On a side note, I think I could hear the faint sound of the Star Spangled Banner playing in the background as I read that post.

 

[kd2]

Go talk to the citizens of places like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Detroit (hell just about anywhere) and ask them if they would prefer the employment prospects and purchasing power of 50 years ago, 25 years ago or today. Saving $5 on a product made in China instead of the US doesn't mean much when you don't have a job or your wage is the same in real dollars as it was 15 years ago.... or when half your city has become a crime-ridden rundown slum.

...I think you meant Baltimore.

 

[FMDoc13]

I know rage is coming out now, as stress is at it's max, waiting for the next 14 hours. But I really think getting into these discussions is not benefit anyone and will only cause drama and more stress.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I can't seem to remove myself from my computer and this forum.

@aProgDirector If we send out an additional 10 at noon and come to find that when list is updated at 2 that the majority of those spots were filled, wouldn't we run the chance of wasting our 10 apps for the day right? And do you think the programs would actually download and look through applications again in between offer periods? I'm so confused as to when would be most optimal to send out more apps.

this is my fear as well.... I would hold off, since the fear of wasting my 10 apps is greater. Plus I think in each offer series they can send only once, so programs will send their offers and if people decline they cannot resend until the next wave.

There isn't a completely "right" answer here.

Last year, there were a total of 1131 positions in SOAP. In the first round, 580 positions were filled, and in the second round 284 positions were filled, for a total of 864 positions. On day two, all rounds combined, 161 positions filled. On day three, all rounds combined, 8 positions filled. At the end, 98 positions remained unfilled.

So, we can see that:
Day #1: 76% filled
Day #2: 14% filled
Day #3: <1% filled
End: 9% unfilled (unclear if these positions ever filled, or if they filled outside the match)

Given this, you have two options:

1. You could apply to 10 programs at 12 noon. Presumably, all programs with open spots will continue to review applications. Some programs will have their offers rejected that first round. So, although you'd waste some applications, you'd also (perhaps) be reviewed by programs while they await answers from their first round of offers.

2. You could wait until 2PM, when the list is updated. You would not waste any applications. But, since round 2 starts at 3PM, it's unlikely that a program would be able to download your application, review it, talk to you, and rank you before 3PM. Perhaps that could happen, but seems unlikely to me. So although you'd not waste any applications on programs that have filled, you'd probably lose any chance of getting reviewed for Round 2.

So, in the end it's not clear to me what the best strategy is. If programs review new applications while awaiting their round #1 results, it might be better to apply early as there are still quite a few spots in Round #2. If most second wave applications are reviewed Wednesday after 5PM for round #3, then it's better to wait until you have the updated list after round #2 to apply (or at least after Round #1). But by then most spots will be gone.

Part of me thinks that neither is really going to matter, and that the first 20 applications are all that really matter. That's not based on any data, just my gut instinct.

 

[FMDoc13]

or when half your city has become a crime-ridden rundown slum.

I do believe most of our "crime ridden rundowm slums" are due to american born and raised, american citizens living on fake disability and getting the government to support them for free.

Foreigners cannot be all crime ridden slum since they would get deported if caught. And the "slum" gets caught all the time.

 

[FMDoc13]

There isn't a completely "right" answer here.

Last year, there were a total of 1131 positions in SOAP. In the first round, 580 positions were filled, and in the second round 284 positions were filled, for a total of 864 positions. On day two, all rounds combined, 161 positions filled. On day three, all rounds combined, 8 positions filled. At the end, 98 positions remained unfilled.

So, we can see that:
Day #1: 76% filled
Day #2: 14% filled
Day #3: <1% filled
End: 9% unfilled (unclear if these positions ever filled, or if they filled outside the match)

Given this, you have two options:

1. You could apply to 10 programs at 12 noon. Presumably, all programs with open spots will continue to review applications. Some programs will have their offers rejected that first round. So, although you'd waste some applications, you'd also (perhaps) be reviewed by programs while they await answers from their first round of offers.

2. You could wait until 2PM, when the list is updated. You would not waste any applications. But, since round 2 starts at 3PM, it's unlikely that a program would be able to download your application, review it, talk to you, and rank you before 3PM. Perhaps that could happen, but seems unlikely to me. So although you'd not waste any applications on programs that have filled, you'd probably lose any chance of getting reviewed for Round 2.

So, in the end it's not clear to me what the best strategy is. If programs review new applications while awaiting their round #1 results, it might be better to apply early as there are still quite a few spots in Round #2. If most second wave applications are reviewed Wednesday after 5PM for round #3, then it's better to wait until you have the updated list after round #2 to apply (or at least after Round #1). But by then most spots will be gone.

Part of me thinks that neither is really going to matter, and that the first 20 applications are all that really matter. That's not based on any data, just my gut instinct.

Thank you for that aPD, I totally see your logic there. And I guess if some programs within our initial 30 didn't fill they would call/extend offers to people that applied first time around, since they probably made a Plan A and Plan B list? Rather than go back into ERAS and see who else applied. I guess that would make more strategic sense.

Thanks a bunch for still being here online for us aPD!!!!!! 👍

 

[deleted128562]

I do believe most of our "crime ridden rundowm slums" are due to american born and raised, american citizens living on fake disability and getting the government to support them for free.

Foreigners cannot be all crime ridden slum since they would get deported if caught. And the "slum" gets caught all the time.

Don't disagree the problems are caused primarily by citizens, and I think you misunderstood the point. What has changed in Detroit in the last 50 years is the availability of quality jobs (due largely to outsourcing). Hence poverty. Hence increased crime. Hence rundown slums. The problem isn't foreign-born people and I never said it was. The problem is loss of American jobs.

Edit: Serious question, is English your first language? "Slum" does not refer to a person, it refers to a rundown area of a city. I wasn't calling people "slums" I was talking about major areas of cities that are in disrepair.

 

[Dral]

I may be missing something, but if I was SOAPing, I'd put in my 30 apps to the progs I thought were best. Assuming most programs offer their spots in first round to whom they perceive as the best candidates (relatively small group of the same ppl...in other words, a few ppl get several offers in first round while a lot of ppl get none), I'd put in my second round 10 to 'less esteemed' progs at noon under the assumption they didn't fill their spot(s) because their offers were rejected first round by candidates who accepted offers at the 'more esteemed' programs.

It seems that gives the best chance for 'left over' spots to see one's app at the earliest time possible.

I'm not saying this is how it works or to do this. I'm just trying to throw thoughts out there to maybe help ppl think things through.

 

[FMDoc13]

Don't disagree the problems are caused primarily by citizens, and I think you misunderstood the point. What has changed in Detroit in the last 50 years is the availability of quality jobs (due largely to outsourcing). Hence poverty. Hence increased crime. Hence rundown slums. The problem isn't foreign-born people and I never said it was. The problem is loss of American jobs.

Aaaa, yes, well in that case blame the government they're the ones not protecting and regulating outsourcing.

In the meantime, I would like to change the subject to something with a lesser potential of boiling our bloods more than it has too.

Like movies.... I can't seem to watch any, I started 3 and get disinterest. Any good recs out there?

 

[deleted452516]

Like movies.... I can't seem to watch any, I started 3 and get disinterest. Any good recs out there?

I'm going through the LOtR trilogy. They just blew up the wall in helms deep. Harry Potter is next.

For some good netflix suggestions check out: http://www.reddit.com/r/NetflixBestOf/ (that's right, I just linked to reddit. Almost as bad as referring you to google, I know)

On netflix I personally like Trailer Park Boys a lot. It is very inappropriate and vulgar though.

 

[dolhan16]

Aaaa, yes, well in that case blame the government they're the ones not protecting and regulating outsourcing.

In the meantime, I would like to change the subject to something with a lesser potential of boiling our bloods more than it has too.

Like movies.... I can't seem to watch any, I started 3 and get disinterest. Any good recs out there?

Agreed, I didnt mean to help kindle the AMG vs IMG fire. But at the moment anything by Pixar would seem to ease the stress. Either that or something mindless with Chuck Norris or Van Damme

 

[deathmerchant]

Sorry folks, I know stress and tempers are high, but I gotta agree with this. Until we truly have a state of global medicine ( if ever), we gotta bank on our own citizens.

On a side note, I think I could hear the faint sound of the Star Spangled Banner playing in the background as I read that post.

Well about >95% of AMG's do match and probably the remaining do match next time around ... so for the few who dont , Im sorry but allowing high quality IMG's to compete raises the bar and quality of American Medical system too. Im pretty sure if that was not the case there wud be a lot of complacency and in the "Long Term" detrimental to US level of Education , Resarch and most imp of all health care.
And though national boundaries are there but these things are for development and protection of human race, for a "greater good if u will" and the if one 'country' is affected , the whole world is; directly or indirectly.
And America has always been the pioneer in humanitarian(well in a way) efforts and the concept of Global Medicine should continue and grow with The great nation that is America and not compare it to 3rd world countries.

 

[CDI]

Right, anyone who disagrees with your point of view must be some kind of "-phobe". Strong debate skills there, highly intellectual.

The US is a very strange and pretty rare country in the way we take care of other countries' citizens before considering our own. Most countries will not allow a foreigner to take a job from a citizen. If this is xenophobia then you need to report most of the world's countries to the UN.

People fail to think big picture past just the job itself. We were all told that globalization and outsourcing would be great for US workers because it would allow us to focus on more high-tech jobs etc, and would drive prices down. Hows that working out? Go talk to the citizens of places like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Detroit (hell just about anywhere) and ask them if they would prefer the employment prospects and purchasing power of 50 years ago, 25 years ago or today. Saving $5 on a product made in China instead of the US doesn't mean much when you don't have a job or your wage is the same in real dollars as it was 15 years ago.... or when half your city has become a crime-ridden rundown slum.

So now we will apply this to your question of what taxpayer would want to fund the "subpar" US applicant over the "better" FMG? Probably the taxpayer who doesn't want to be stuck witj the unmatched AMG/ USIMG's defaulted student loans, wants their own kid to be able to use their hard earned degree, doesn't want to pay welfare benefits for unemployed US MDs, and knows that loss of American jobs doesn't exactly have a fantastic long-term track record.

If you think it is xenophobic for a country to put its own citizens first, then what is the point of even having a country? Lets just shut down all borders and be citizens of the planet, right?

We already have an advantage in the match. Either US citizenship and/or the #1 mother of all factors for residency apps, being an AMG.

AMG status grants you a 30-40 point leeway on your Steps because you went to med school here. If you can't cut it even after that...

Hell, I'd be flat out embarrassed too, to get beat out on my own turf by someone who's second language is my first language. However, I'm not blaming someone else who out-worked me and did what I couldn't. Just got to keep going.

 

[FMDoc13]

Edit: Serious question, is English your first language? "Slum" does not refer to a person, it refers to a rundown area of a city. I wasn't calling people "slums" I was talking about major areas of cities that are in disrepair.

Sigh, yes my first language is English and I am well aware of the definition of "slum" I was merely over-quoting a word as a way to make a point.

Next time I will make sure I use the appropriate "scum" appellative when talking about "slums".

PS: Who knew though that stress makes me care less about my grammar and language skills when I write on forums

 

[FMDoc13]

I'm going through the LOtR trilogy. They just blew up the wall in helms deep. Harry Potter is next..

Agreed, I didnt mean to help kindle the AMG vs IMG fire. But at the moment anything by Pixar would seem to ease the stress. Either that or something mindless with Chuck Norris or Van Damme

Uuuuu.. I like the Harry Potter idea, I have seen the LOtR trilogy a few times.

I'll take your Chuck Norris vs Van Damme and raise a Kung Fu (w/ Carradine) or IpMan 1 and 2.

 

[ActionFigure]

Aaaa, yes, well in that case blame the government they're the ones not protecting and regulating outsourcing.

In the meantime, I would like to change the subject to something with a lesser potential of boiling our bloods more than it has too.

Like movies.... I can't seem to watch any, I started 3 and get disinterest. Any good recs out there?

yes watch Happy on Netflix. was watching some of it today. going to finish the rest of it right now. its a documentary but very interesting. may put things in perspective too

 

[FMDoc13]

yes watch Happy on Netflix. was watching some of it today. going to finish the rest of it right now. its a documentary but very interesting. may put things in perspective too

What is this "Happy " all about? a documentary about what? It keeps popping up in my netflix "most popular" but the cover hasn't appealed to much.

 

[p30doc]

And I guess if some programs within our initial 30 didn't fill they would call/extend offers to people that applied first time around, since they probably made a Plan A and Plan B list? Rather than go back into ERAS and see who else applied. I guess that would make more strategic sense.

I think this is what happens. My guess is programs still unfilled would download and review applications submitted in round 2 after going through the 3pm cycle on wed. Then calling new persons of interest late wed afternoon and evening, putting them in the running for the 9am round on Thursday.

 

[Mapplicant]

Like movies.... I can't seem to watch any, I started 3 and get disinterest. Any good recs out there?

My most recent documentary is a special that was on the History channel called Comic Book Superheroes Unmasked. If you google that you can find full version of it on youtube. Very interesting history behind the rise of the comic book superhero culture and how Superman/Batman/etc. came to be.

A friend of mine just started collecting comics and some of them can be worth quite a bit of money. There's a story about a family who were being foreclosed on and they found the first issue of Superman in their attic which was enough to save their house (it was worth 250k, and it was in really crappy condition). Most expensive comic I believe was auctioned off for more than $2 million, and that was a very good condition first superman comic 😱

 

[ActionFigure]

What is this "Happy " all about? a documentary about what? It keeps popping up in my netflix "most popular" but the cover hasn't appealed to much.

dont you know youre not supposed to judge a book by its cover. from the part that i saw, it's about happiness, but it delves into more than just who are happy people. it talks about the why, the how, the where, the neurochemistry, the genetics. something about FLOW. that's as far as I got.

and on a side note:
in america you can always pursue happiness...but that doesn't mean you will always catch it

 

[ActionFigure]

My most recent documentary is a special that was on the History channel called Comic Book Superheroes Unmasked. If you google that you can find full version of it on youtube. Very interesting history behind the rise of the comic book superhero culture and how Superman/Batman/etc. came to be.

A friend of mine just started collecting comics and some of them can be worth quite a bit of money. There's a story about a family who were being foreclosed on and they found the first issue of Superman in their attic which was enough to save their house (around it was worth 250k, and it was in really crappy condition). Most expensive comic I believe was sold for more than $2 million 😱

there's another series documentary hosted by the guy who created spider man (stan lee) and this other dude i think who has Ehlers-Danlos. its called superhumans. the dude basically goes around the world looking for people with unique talents they can do with their body. one dude india can conduct electricity.

 

[p30doc]

in america you can always pursue happiness...

In Soviet Russia happiness pursues you!

 

[FMDoc13]

In Soviet Russia happiness pursues you!

hahahahah.... good one!

 

[cerebral edema]

My most recent documentary is a special that was on the History channel called Comic Book Superheroes Unmasked. If you google that you can find full version of it on youtube. Very interesting history behind the rise of the comic book superhero culture and how Superman/Batman/etc. came to be.

A friend of mine just started collecting comics and some of them can be worth quite a bit of money. There's a story about a family who were being foreclosed on and they found the first issue of Superman in their attic which was enough to save their house (it was worth 250k, and it was in really crappy condition). Most expensive comic I believe was auctioned off for more than $2 million, and that was a very good condition first superman comic 😱

there's another series documentary hosted by the guy who created spider man (stan lee) and this other dude i think who has Ehlers-Danlos. its called superhumans. the dude basically goes around the world looking for people with unique talents they can do with their body. one dude india can conduct electricity.

Nerd alert

 

[mozdef]

Don't disagree the problems are caused primarily by citizens, and I think you misunderstood the point. What has changed in Detroit in the last 50 years is the availability of quality jobs (due largely to outsourcing). Hence poverty. Hence increased crime. Hence rundown slums. The problem isn't foreign-born people and I never said it was. The problem is loss of American jobs.

Edit: Serious question, is English your first language? "Slum" does not refer to a person, it refers to a rundown area of a city. I wasn't calling people "slums" I was talking about major areas of cities that are in disrepair.

The problem is American greed from American citizens who like to exploit people from economically disadvantaged countries to do slave labor for them for a subhuman wage. Frankly they don't care much about their fellow American citizens and their jobs (or lack thereof).

 

[ActionFigure]

i've also come to the conclusion that happiness is a choice

 

[FMDoc13]

 

[cerebral edema]

The problem is American greed from American citizens who like to exploit people from economically disadvantaged countries to do slave labor for them for a subhuman wage. Frankly they don't care much about their fellow American citizens and their jobs (or lack thereof).

lol wtf

 

[umean2tellme]

The problem is American greed from American citizens who like to exploit people from economically disadvantaged countries to do slave labor for them for a subhuman wage. Frankly they don't care much about their fellow American citizens and their jobs (or lack thereof).

So we should enslave our fellow Americans?