THE SOAP 2013 Thread

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Good luck to all, i'm calling it a year. after 5 rounds of no offers i give up and 0 out 40
 
sharkbait23 said:
congrats. did you just get the offer at 12pm? obviously you had a call since you had people calling and advocating for you. well best of luck with your match. being 0/40 and probably 0/45 after 2pm (i'm waiting cuz if im gonna waste 5 more apps id rather at least know that the spots aren't filled yet) but i've for pretty much given up any hope. congrats again.
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Yes. i got the offer at 12pm. Which is good cause spots were definitely dwindling. Good luck.
 
Ogenki said:
I'm guessing you got into the specialty of your choice and its one of the last if not last open positions from the updated list 🙂 (I have no knowledge of anything other than the initial list, I do remember what specialty you were applying for and it doesn't seem like one where someone would start applying for prelim surgery afterwards.)

I think same thing happened for me Wednesday morning. If you have doctors with academic and research credentials willing to hammer the PD after a program contacts you, it makes a difference. I was able to talk to the PD after accepting and we spent most of the conversation talking about his conversations with my advocates. Mine were able to get ahold of the program right after they interviewed me. Wouldn't be suprised if your advocates couldn't get him/her on the phone untill later because of the hectic schedule he must have been under and their own job responsibilities.

I'm sure some people will think its unfair but its like referrals or LORs, something every job asks for. WIth the limited time in this process, several doctors willing to vouch for you is evidence that you'll be a resident that will be well-liked in the program, not cause trouble, etc. given the PD can't meet you in person or spend more than 15-30 minutes with you on the phone.

Congratulations.
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I think that was definitely the reason I got in. I do have a good application with a wealth of experience, but low step scores. It was in path, I wasn't planning on applying to another field. I really love my specialty and would never fit in anything else. Either way, I would have tried again for next year. Thanks!
 
halekulani said:
first of all AMGs should have priority no matter what. for the most part these are left over spots, often in primary care.

this isn't about FMGs or IMGs being inferior in skills or intellect - that is obviously untrue with many passing the step1/2 with flying colors. there are many well qualified if not overqualified applicants who will be outstanding doctors

this is simply about protection of a country's citizens. the US market should not be obligated to be a globalized one. no other country offers such provisions for US grads. DO grads also have a huge advantage to apply in the allo match whereas AMGs are not allowed to. and finally, this is a scramble. i think there is a terrible disservice done to an AMG if he or she is unable to obtain a position esp without any red flags.
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I am an AMG but have a lot of very intelligent friends in the Caribbean schools. It seems that people don't realize that most (95+%) of the Caribbean Med-school students are US or Canadian citizens. A lot of them work their butts off getting 250+ on all the steps just to get primary care positions...without having their home institution contacting PDs on their behalf. So I think they too deserve respect instead of bashing and criticism.
 
NYC Medic said:
I am an AMG but have a lot of very intelligent friends in the Caribbean schools. It seems that people don't realize that most (95+%) of the Caribbean Med-school students are US or Canadian citizens. A lot of them work their butts off getting 250+ on all the steps just to get primary care positions...without having their home institution contacting PDs on their behalf. So I think they too deserve respect instead of bashing and criticism.
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If this forum had a reputation-adding system, I'd give you positive reps. 👍
 
can we have people call if program hasnt contacted us yet

i got director of research and clinical nephrology from top five medical school hospital system in states willing to do this for me, but id have to have him do it right away
 
NYC Medic said:
I am an AMG but have a lot of very intelligent friends in the Caribbean schools. It seems that people don't realize that most (95+%) of the Caribbean Med-school students are US or Canadian citizens. A lot of them work their butts off getting 250+ on all the steps just to get primary care positions...without having their home institution contacting PDs on their behalf. So I think they too deserve respect instead of bashing and criticism.
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my situation; my dean didnt even reply to me when I asked him/her.
 
AMGs with previous fails are getting 2-3 calls while caribean kids at schools much older than some of the new american schools got 0 calls with 240s.

so it seems AMGs are getting their due
 
topscorer said:
AMGs with previous fails are getting 2-3 calls while caribean kids at schools much older than some of the new american schools got 0 calls with 240s.

so it seems AMGs are getting their due
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If you have 240s, what did you apply for in the match?

Im really surprised you didn't get any interviews/positions for primary care with 240s.
 
chudat said:
If you have 240s, what did you apply for in the match?

Im really surprised you didn't get any interviews/positions for primary care with 240s.
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IM only. My second 24x score report or CS didn't come out until Dec'ish. Praying that's why I only had 2 IV's.
 
Aight guys...it was nice hanging out with everyone in the previous 4 days, I am glad I didnt see your faces (because I am sure they have not been pretty or handsome lol) I am signing off...gluck in whatever you do peace
 
Programs are not even bothering downloading the apps anymore..
 
ActionFigure said:
is it over
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Sorry you guys are going through this. Can I ask though, are most of you non-US IMGs? It just would seem very odd that a ton of AMGs would not match. I guess perhaps why we are seeing more foreign grads not match during this match particularly is because of the elimination of the pre-match. I think it's important to keep in mind to be very mindful about going through the match if you are a non AMG given that more and more, it will be very difficult for non-AMGs to match.

It might save a lot of heartache and $$ for people in the future to think very carefully about applying in the US if non-AMG. Canada has this system in place already so it's hard for foreign docs to train there. Same situation is happening here now. I would not be surprised if a first match for AMGs is instituted in the future and a second match for whatever is left over is instituted for everyone else.

Sorry guys.
 
NYC Medic said:
I am an AMG but have a lot of very intelligent friends in the Caribbean schools. It seems that people don't realize that most (95+%) of the Caribbean Med-school students are US or Canadian citizens. A lot of them work their butts off getting 250+ on all the steps just to get primary care positions...without having their home institution contacting PDs on their behalf. So I think they too deserve respect instead of bashing and criticism.
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Cosign. I met some people from Carribean schools when I was taking part in a Step Prep course, and I realized how hard things were for them at their school. The people who I was in the study group with were in the same boat as I, having failed the step, but my school was offereing a lot of support. One of the Dean's made sure to keep in contact with me, and they even nominated me for a scholorship to help pay for the expenses of the program. My study parters said they wish that their school would give that much support. I came away with a new found respect for them because they go through a lot of this just being treated as a number and being on their own because their schools don't really care too much about attrition rates, whereas these US schools most certainly do care about that, and many of them do everything they can to make sure that their students don't have to drop out or get released from their school. I think the same applies to residency placement. They want to make sure their residency placement remains high.
 
NYC Medic said:
I am an AMG but have a lot of very intelligent friends in the Caribbean schools. It seems that people don't realize that most (95+%) of the Caribbean Med-school students are US or Canadian citizens. A lot of them work their butts off getting 250+ on all the steps just to get primary care positions...without having their home institution contacting PDs on their behalf. So I think they too deserve respect instead of bashing and criticism.
Click to expand...

i didn't criticize them at all
i just said amg's should have priority regardless of merit and fully acknowledged how hard IMGs worked

i absolutely know that a ton of IMGs are US students who couldn't get into a med school in the states. however, the value of being in the states should be upheld by holding priority for people from the US and who are actively studying in the US, period.
 
I really don't think it's useful to have a discussion about AMGs vs. IMGs right now, or at least in this thread; there are plenty of both who got punched in the gut on Monday, and as far as I'm concerned anyone who's had to go through this awful process should have free-reign to vent and complain in whatever manner they feel like right now 🙁

So sorry you guys had to go through this horrible experience this week. If you still had no luck in the SOAP, I wish you the best of luck over this upcoming year and that you won't have to do this again.
 
NYC Medic said:
I am an AMG but have a lot of very intelligent friends in the Caribbean schools. It seems that people don't realize that most (95+%) of the Caribbean Med-school students are US or Canadian citizens. A lot of them work their butts off getting 250+ on all the steps just to get primary care positions...without having their home institution contacting PDs on their behalf. So I think they too deserve respect instead of bashing and criticism.
Click to expand...

In the end, though, going to a school in the Caribbean is a choice and with any prior research you know what you're getting yourself into. I have friends who partied their way through college and spent 2 weeks studying for the MCAT and are now in Caribbean schools. Furthermore, they are allowed to retake classes that they fail multiple times as long as they keep paying. This isn't a broad generalization and I have met many brilliant Caribbean students but that kind of loophole unfortunately lowers the status.
 
IamnotFreud said:
Sorry you guys are going through this. Can I ask though, are most of you non-US IMGs? It just would seem very odd that a ton of AMGs would not match. I guess perhaps why we are seeing more foreign grads not match during this match particularly is because of the elimination of the pre-match. I think it's important to keep in mind to be very mindful about going through the match if you are a non AMG given that more and more, it will be very difficult for non-AMGs to match.

It might save a lot of heartache and $$ for people in the future to think very carefully about applying in the US if non-AMG. Canada has this system in place already so it's hard for foreign docs to train there. Same situation is happening here now. I would not be surprised if a first match for AMGs is instituted in the future and a second match for whatever is left over is instituted for everyone else.

Sorry guys.
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I'm an AMG, and this is my second time in SOAP, but my Step scores are holding me back. But, at my school, we typically only have 1 or 2 students that don't match per year, and they would pretty much all find something in scramble because our Deans would know people here or there. Now with SOAP, last year we had 7 not match, and only 2 get something SOAP week. Then one person got something a couple of weeks after SOAP, and another got something the first week of June. There were 3 of us who got nothing. This year, I don't know how things went, but from the emails I've been getting, it seems like there may be a lot again this year as well from the soon to be graduates. Seems like for some reason, it's getting harder to match. Even last year, our Dean let us know about other programs who were complaining that they had an abnormally high amount of students not matching. I don't think that non-AMG should lose hope, because I think many still will match, but it's just going to be a little bit harder all around.
 
AnesThrow said:
In the end, though, going to a school in the Caribbean is a choice and with any prior research you know what you're getting yourself into. I have friends who partied their way through college and spent 2 weeks studying for the MCAT and are now in Caribbean schools. Furthermore, they are allowed to retake classes that they fail multiple times as long as they keep paying. This isn't a broad generalization and I have met many brilliant Caribbean students but that kind of loophole unfortunately lowers the status.
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There are multiple students in my own US school (top 10) who failed multiple classes. The school provided them with tutors so they can pass the failed class. In the end these students barely passed the steps and still secured a residency with the backing of the deans. Whereas, some of the IMGs proved themselves with exceptionally high step scores, tons of research just to so they can get a non-competitive spot. Being an AMG with mediocre scores opens many more doors than for an IMG with high scores. I personally have ton of respect for a lot of these guys who make it out and get a spot.
 
Ok, so my best friend (at a US school) applied to OB GYN with decent step scores and no problems in her academic record (no repeating years, not even any Cs, which is more than I can say for myself). She ended up interviewing at and ranking 9 programs, many of which were kind of small. She didn't match. Then she went through the whole SOAP, applied for the leftover FM spots.

Still didn't match.

What the hell? I thought about 99% of people eventually end up matching first time around, and she's definitely quite competitive for FM.
 
joesephine said:
IM only. My second 24x score report or CS didn't come out until Dec'ish. Praying that's why I only had 2 IV's.
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Sorry, but I don't think so, I know a lot of people who only took CK in December and still had lots of invites before that. One person even forgot to even release their transcript until late January.
 
VenusinFurs said:
Ok, so my best friend (at a US school) applied to OB GYN with decent step scores and no problems in her academic record (no repeating years, not even any Cs, which is more than I can say for myself). She ended up interviewing at and ranking 9 programs, many of which were kind of small. She didn't match. Then she went through the whole SOAP, applied for the leftover FM spots.

Still didn't match.

What the hell? I thought about 99% of people eventually end up matching first time around, and she's definitely quite competitive for FM.
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Reading this thread it seems like being especially competitive can hurt you in SOAP, since PD's look for people who they think will accept their offer. Which is a pretty glaring flaw.
 
Some people dont interview well Is the only thing I can come up with regarding not matching ob after ranking 9 spots.
 
Rothbard said:
Sorry, but I don't think so, I know a lot of people who only took CK in December and still had lots of invites before that. One person even forgot to even release their transcript until late January.
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I believe the person you quoted was an img, in which case you definitely need step 2 to have a real shot of matching.
 
Not just "real shot". Imgs cannot participate in the match without Step 2 at all.
GoSpursGo said:
I believe the person you quoted was an img, in which case you definitely need step 2 to have a real shot of matching.
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joesephine said:
IM only. My second 24x score report or CS didn't come out until Dec'ish. Praying that's why I only had 2 IV's.
Click to expand...

I had >265/>240 and only got 5 interviews. One was for prematch (didn't get it), one was a malignant program (didn't even go). Only ended up ranking 3. 2 IV's were so-so, 1 was pretty good. Matched somehow. This is for IM too from a Canadian IMG.
 
VenusinFurs said:
What the hell? I thought about 99% of people eventually end up matching first time around, and she's definitely quite competitive for FM.
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About 95% of US MD seniors match, and that number has held steady if not increased over the past 5 years. It's not any comfort to those 5%, but there's just a certain degree of luck that goes into this process too.
 
AnesThrow said:
In the end, though, going to a school in the Caribbean is a choice and with any prior research you know what you're getting yourself into. I have friends who partied their way through college and spent 2 weeks studying for the MCAT and are now in Caribbean schools. Furthermore, they are allowed to retake classes that they fail multiple times as long as they keep paying. This isn't a broad generalization and I have met many brilliant Caribbean students but that kind of loophole unfortunately lowers the status.
Click to expand...

Only the lower tier schools. SGU, Ross, and AUC are businesses that need to weed people out to maintain high step one pass rates plus they don't have enough clinical rotation spots to accommodate all the people they accept in the first place. I heard US schools provide remediation tests though.
 
halekulani said:
i didn't criticize them at all
i just said amg's should have priority regardless of merit and fully acknowledged how hard IMGs worked

i absolutely know that a ton of IMGs are US students who couldn't get into a med school in the states. however, the value of being in the states should be upheld by holding priority for people from the US and who are actively studying in the US, period.
Click to expand...
I disagree, giving priority to AMG will essentially create the situation when all AMGs will match since the number of spots is larger than number of AMGs. This alone will remove any incentive for the students to study because they will be guaranteed the spot upon admission to med school.
 
TGF beta1 said:
I disagree, giving priority to AMG will essentially create the situation when all AMGs will match since the number of spots is larger than number of AMGs. This alone will remove any incentive for the students to study because they will be guaranteed the spot upon admission to med school.
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Guaranteed what spot? Nobody that is in medical school wants a random spot. Most everyone would still strive to get into competitive spots. Furthermore, the incentive to study should come from the need to have enough knowledge to be a great physician and help patients. The requirements to get accepted to an American medical school in the first place are pretty strenuous and for the most part weed out people that won't make it academically.
 
TGF beta1 said:
I disagree, giving priority to AMG will essentially create the situation when all AMGs will match since the number of spots is larger than number of AMGs. This alone will remove any incentive for the students to study because they will be guaranteed the spot upon admission to med school.
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You do realize they have to get through a US med school and Step 1 and 2? I'm pretty sure they will be doing some studying.
 
AnesThrow said:
Guaranteed what spot? Nobody that is in medical school wants a random spot. Most everyone would still strive to get into competitive spots. Furthermore, the incentive to study should come from the need to have enough knowledge to be a great physician and help patients. The requirements to get accepted to an American medical school in the first place are pretty strenuous and for the most part weed out people that won't make it academically.
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You're right... the incentive SHOULD come from the need to have enough knowledge. But we all know that's not how everyone works. Ideally everyone would have a spot and everyone would be motivated and driven to be a great physician no matter what. Unfortunately that's not how it is...
 
TGF beta1 said:
I disagree, giving priority to AMG will essentially create the situation when all AMGs will match since the number of spots is larger than number of AMGs. This alone will remove any incentive for the students to study because they will be guaranteed the spot upon admission to med school.
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priority doesn't mean acceptance

priority should be AMGs should be looked at first

if you don't match after the first few rounds, then go ahead and lump them with everyone else.
 
hopefulfor2013 said:
You're right... the incentive SHOULD come from the need to have enough knowledge. But we all know that's not how everyone works. Ideally everyone would have a spot and everyone would be motivated and driven to be a great physician no matter what. Unfortunately that's not how it is...
Click to expand...

I understand but I've never heard anyone during medical school say "Oh, I don't care, I'll take any random spot in any random residency program". Competition will remain the same.

The point of that was medicine is not one of those careers where you can "fake it till you make it". The people who don't care enough to learn medicine will be bitten hard in the ass by the harsh realities of malpractice, politics, etc. even if they manage to slip by into a residency program.
 
Rothbard said:
Sorry, but I don't think so, I know a lot of people who only took CK in December and still had lots of invites before that. One person even forgot to even release their transcript until late January.
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your friends are probably AMGs
 
TGF beta1 said:
I disagree, giving priority to AMG will essentially create the situation when all AMGs will match since the number of spots is larger than number of AMGs. This alone will remove any incentive for the students to study because they will be guaranteed the spot upon admission to med school.
Click to expand...

You really don't sound like someone that's gone to med school.

A) There remains competition among specialties

B) There remains competition within specialties for specific programs

C) Not getting kicked out of medical school provides sizable motivation to study
 
AnesThrow said:
I understand but I've never heard anyone during medical school say "Oh, I don't care, I'll take any random spot in any random residency program". Competition will remain the same.

The point of that was medicine is not one of those careers where you can "fake it till you make it". The people who don't care enough to learn medicine will be bitten hard in the ass by the harsh realities of malpractice, politics, etc. even if they manage to slip by into a residency program.
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it's not about faking it
there's enough competition among the US applicants already with DO's applying into the match as well

this isn't like someone faking it into an ortho spot. those kinds of positions really just don't exist, and even if they did, there are plenty of superstars who didnt match ENT/ortho/rads/plastics/etc to fill those few prime positions.

there are primary care spots that can be adequately filled by a qualified AMG. an AMG shouldnt have to struggle this hard. not matching is ALREADY terrible.
 
halekulani said:
it's not about faking it
there's enough competition among the US applicants already with DO's applying into the match as well

this isn't like someone faking it into an ortho spot. those kinds of positions really just don't exist, and even if they did, there are plenty of superstars who didnt match ENT/ortho/rads/plastics/etc to fill those few prime positions.

there are primary care spots that can be adequately filled by a qualified AMG. an AMG shouldnt have to struggle this hard. not matching is ALREADY terrible.
Click to expand...

I wasn't arguing against your point. I agree with you. The "faking it" comment was in response to a poster above saying that gaining knowledge to help patients isn't an incentive for some people.
 
it seems that a fair amount of people in this thread are IMG's, likely american or canadian born students who want to return to the US for residency. there's nothing wrong with that. what i think is wrong is the culture and mentality that somehow you not securing a spot via SOAP/match is unfair because you made the decision to attend a non-US school for medicine.

you made the educated decision to attend a foreign medical school, likely because you couldn't make it in a US school. you should've known going in how much harder it was going to be to get into residency, something that im pretty sure all premed counselors tell their students when the topic of foreign schools get raised.

with the upcoming merger of the AOA and ACGME matches in 2015, its going to be even tougher for IMG's to match. all those currently open DO spots are going to fair game for unmatched students and there's no way a PD is going to give an IMG a spot over a US MD student.

tl;dr if you didn't get into a US school, don't go in expecting a US residency spot like its some sort of deserved handout
 
So does anyone know if programs will be open on the weekend to fill any remaining spots after 5pm tomorrow for the scramble. Or will everything resume on Monday. At this point, I need a weekend off.
 
monkeyboy2888 said:
it seems that a fair amount of people in this thread are IMG's, likely american or canadian born students who want to return to the US for residency. there's nothing wrong with that. what i think is wrong is the culture and mentality that somehow you not securing a spot via SOAP/match is unfair because you made the decision to attend a non-US school for medicine.

you made the educated decision to attend a foreign medical school, likely because you couldn't make it in a US school. you should've known going in how much harder it was going to be to get into residency, something that im pretty sure all premed counselors tell their students when the topic of foreign schools get raised.

with the upcoming merger of the AOA and ACGME matches in 2015, its going to be even tougher for IMG's to match. all those currently open DO spots are going to fair game for unmatched students and there's no way a PD is going to give an IMG a spot over a US MD student.

tl;dr if you didn't get into a US school, don't go in expecting a US residency spot like its some sort of deserved handout
Click to expand...

i disagree, i think most of the people here on this thread are AMGs that are truly surprised that they did not match...because even only a few years ago, it was unthinkable that a US grad would not match.

frankly most IMGs are very well aware the uphill battle it is to match in the US...esp the caribbean grads...and have very a very realistic notion of our chances in the scramble (and worse so in the SOAP)...its the reason we apply to >100 places for IM or FM and interview at EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM that grants us an interview...and rank EVERY program interviewed even if its the crappiest program that we have ever seen...

AMGs have been used to applying to maybe 10-20 places, interviewing at 5 or 6 places and ranking maybe 4 or 5 of those places...and getting one of their 1st or 2nd choices...now as the number of ACGME residency spots are getting to the point of 1:1 (per the ACGME chair, that goal should happen in 2016) more and more AMGs are going to find that they can't be that picky anymore...sorry to rub salt in the wounds, but how many of you can say you applied to 50+ places for a primary care spot and interviewed at 20+ places and ranked at least 15 programs (which per the NRMP gives you a 95% chance of matching)? Other than those applying to uber competitive specialties, I would to hazard a guess that very few AMGs did so...and I would bet good money that practically every IMG did exactly that...
 
anyone with access to residentswap.org would be kind enough to post the details of the Orthopedic surgery non-accreditted opening and the Neuro surgery non accreditted opening?
 
Rothbard said:
Sorry, but I don't think so, I know a lot of people who only took CK in December and still had lots of invites before that. One person even forgot to even release their transcript until late January.
Click to expand...

i'm a canadian IMG.
 
I forgot to release the CK and CS scores for SOAP. would that hurt me?

I had two interviews (I applied very selectively and to few places) during the main match. I have received no offers during SOAP. despite applying to surg prelim and IM prelim (50 places)

I have decent stats AMG/220/203/CS passed all 1x. BUT i failed 3 classes in first year and repeated the year with those classes only. I've done well on my clerkships and excellent on a surgery sub-i and received excellent letters from a well known Dept Chair in Surgery, SurgOnc Chief, and Gen Surg/Trauma Chief from a solid university program.

I don't know what to do...🙁🙁 What if there are no more unfilled spots come monday. My hands were tied because I could not initiate contact. At this point I will take anything....

If not releasing CK and CS hurt me.........:bang:
 
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