The Tenth Percentile

[krogers21]

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Based on MSAR data, you can identify the 10th-90th percentile MCAT, as well as, the median MCAT score (which I'm certain most SDNers know).

When applying to schools, should I even bother if my MCAT score is the 10th percentile? I mean, someone obviously had to get that MCAT score to get in, right? (I wish they would say the number of matriculants per MCAT score.) Or, should I apply and hope to hell I get an interview? A lot of schools that I would love to attend fall in this category.

So, where is this cut-off? The dichotomy of "apply" and "don't apply"? At what point does it become a genuine "I wish I could come here, but I know I can't" donation?

Studying for the MCAT was taxing. Little did I know of the aftermath that would ensue in determining where I apply.

 

[MadRadLad]

It's not the ONLY factor. Make a decision based on how your GPA stacks up, how your ECs match up with their goals (i.e. if you've got a lot of community service/working with the underserved and that's a school mission). In the end it come down to how much money you want to spend. It's not the worst idea to apply to a couple of those schools if you stand strong in the other categories, but don't throw too much money away. Some people defy statistics at times with the right sort of application + some luck, but that should not be expected.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

If you are in the bottom 10th, consider that school a reach. Only 10 percent of you applications should be reaches.

 

[hubriz]

Based on MSAR data, you can identify the 10th-90th percentile MCAT, as well as, the median MCAT score (which I'm certain most SDNers know).

When applying to schools, should I even bother if my MCAT score is the 10th percentile? I mean, someone obviously had to get that MCAT score to get in, right? (I wish they would say the number of matriculants per MCAT score.) Or, should I apply and hope to hell I get an interview? A lot of schools that I would love to attend fall in this category.

So, where is this cut-off? The dichotomy of "apply" and "don't apply"? At what point does it become a genuine "I wish I could come here, but I know I can't" donation?

Studying for the MCAT was taxing. Little did I know of the aftermath that would ensue in determining where I apply.

10% of matriculants score lower than the 10th percentile - so you may consider yourself competitive if other aspects of your application are strong, even with a score at or below the 10th percentile. Same is true for GPA. The percentiles and medians are good benchmarks for approximating competitiveness based on numbers alone, but admissions are far more complex than that.

 

[krogers21]

I have a hard time believing this though. I have a 3.8/31, but I find it hard to believe I could be competitive at Duke or NYU even with strong ECs.

 

[jram2323]

I got rejected from every school where I was at or below the 10% MCAT. Unless you are an URM or have something unbelievable in your app, I'd say don't bother. But hey, if money isn't a problem and you don't mind doing more essays, I guess you could go for it.

My stats are very similar to yours

 

[Psai]

10% of matriculants score lower than the 10th percentile - so you may consider yourself competitive if other aspects of your application are strong, even with a score at or below the 10th percentile. Same is true for GPA. The percentiles and medians are good benchmarks for approximating competitiveness based on numbers alone, but admissions are far more complex than that.

10% of accepted applicants. It's different.

 

[hubriz]

10% of accepted applicants. It's different.

That's correct.

 

[ace12345]

From what I've seen, it depends a lot on ECs. And not standard ECs like your standard college volunteering and research, stuff like PeaceCorps, Teach for America, year out for research with pubs, etc.

If you have that and are in the tenth %ile, you'll see some action

 

[knv2u]

Based on MSAR data, you can identify the 10th-90th percentile MCAT, as well as, the median MCAT score (which I'm certain most SDNers know).

When applying to schools, should I even bother if my MCAT score is the 10th percentile? I mean, someone obviously had to get that MCAT score to get in, right? (I wish they would say the number of matriculants per MCAT score.) Or, should I apply and hope to hell I get an interview? A lot of schools that I would love to attend fall in this category.

So, where is this cut-off? The dichotomy of "apply" and "don't apply"? At what point does it become a genuine "I wish I could come here, but I know I can't" donation?

Studying for the MCAT was taxing. Little did I know of the aftermath that would ensue in determining where I apply.

I would consider the school an extreme reach. It could happen, particularly if your extracurriculars are strong (e.g. first author publications), but I still wouldn't get my hopes up too high. Also, the difference in point spread matters as well. If the point spread is small between the 10th and 90th percentile, falling a little low might not be as much of an issue. If there is a statistically significant difference, then that is yet another story.

 

[hubriz]

I have a hard time believing this though. I have a 3.8/31, but I find it hard to believe I could be competitive at Duke or NYU even with strong ECs.

10% of folks remain competitive enough to get an acceptance with an MCAT lower than yours is my point.

 

[Goro]

My advice is not to try. There has to be something spectacular in your app to put you into that exceptional 10th %ile...which might range from being a veteran, having a 4.0 post-bac GPA, a great story (rise from poverty,+ first kid to go to college) OR be a friend/relative of the Dean/Faculty OR have a very large donation check in hand.

Like it or not, we're addicted to standardized tests in med school, so good performance on them is a necessary skill.

My advice to you is invest in MSAR Online and apply to schools whose median scores (MCAT AND GPA) are close to yours. It's OK to try some schools where your score may be well below avg (like, say, having a 33 MCAT where the avg is 36), but still within the 10-90%ile.

Based on MSAR data, you can identify the 10th-90th percentile MCAT, as well as, the median MCAT score (which I'm certain most SDNers know).

When applying to schools, should I even bother if my MCAT score is the 10th percentile? I mean, someone obviously had to get that MCAT score to get in, right? (I wish they would say the number of matriculants per MCAT score.) Or, should I apply and hope to hell I get an interview? A lot of schools that I would love to attend fall in this category.

So, where is this cut-off? The dichotomy of "apply" and "don't apply"? At what point does it become a genuine "I wish I could come here, but I know I can't" donation?

Studying for the MCAT was taxing. Little did I know of the aftermath that would ensue in determining where I apply.

 

[hubriz]

My advice is not to try. There has to be something spectacular in your app to put you into that exceptional 10th %ile...which might range from being a veteran, having a 4.0 post-bac GPA, a great story (rise from poverty,+ first kid to go to college) OR be a friend/relative of the Dean/Faculty OR have a very large donation check in hand.

Like it or not, we're addicted to standardized tests in med school, so good performance on them is a necessary skill.

My advice to you is invest in MSAR Online and apply to schools whose median scores (MCAT AND GPA) are close to yours. It's OK to try some schools where your score may be well below avg (like, say, having a 33 MCAT where the avg is 36), but still within the 10-90%ile.

You'll certainly save yourself time and money with this approach.

 

[krogers21]

Well there goes my dream of Duke

 

[ZeaL6]

I did, and got into a school where my MCAT was 1 point below the 10 percentile. Obviously don't apply to all schools like that, but a few won't hurt, especially if you feel like your EC's are rare

 

[terp720]

Well there goes my dream of Duke

if Duke is your dream school and you can afford to add it as a school, then go for it.
Just don't make your entire list out of schools where you're at the 10th percentile.

 

[krogers21]

I did, and got into a school where my MCAT was 1 point below the 10 percentile. Obviously don't apply to all schools like that, but a few won't hurt, especially if you feel like your EC's are rare

Are you an URM? Or have exceedingly strong ECs?

 

[VisualEvolution]

I would say go for it. My MCAT score was roughly around the 10th percentile for every school I applied to (7 schools) and I got 3 ii as a non URM with 1 acceptance and 1 alternate so far. I had my GPA in the 70th+ percentiles though so it helped make up for a low MCAT score. If the rest of your app is strong, I'm willing to bet some schools will give you a shot.

 

[krogers21]

I would say go for it. My MCAT score was roughly around the 10th percentile for every school I applied to (7 schools) and I got 3 ii as a non URM with 1 acceptance and 1 alternate so far. I had my GPA in the 70th+ percentiles though so it helped make up for a low MCAT score. If the rest of your app is strong, I'm willing to bet some schools will give you a shot.

What was your MCAT? I tend to feel lower scores (below 29) allow more forgiveness at schools with, say a 27 (10th percentile), accepting a point below or whatever.

 

[FAQ]

I did this last cycle with a higher GPA, but lower MCAT. I only got 1 interview out of all the schools I was 10th percentile in for MCAT. I have decent ECs too.

I would advise you to limit the number of schools you apply to where you fall in this range. Unless you have something to truly seperate your application from the thousands of others the admissions committees will be reading.

 

[aspirantmed]

It also depends where you stand financially. I applied to a handful of schools where my scores were at or above the 90th percentile .. and then threw my weight behind a ton of applications to top schools. The way I saw it, even something that failed 9 out of 10 times would still work a few times if I applied to 15-20 schools. Of the 15 reach schools I applied to, where my sGPA, cGPA, and MCAT were all below average, I got 4 interviews. That just goes to show that sometimes it's worth taking a shot in the dark.

If you have the money, then a few $80-100 applications to schools that are distant reaches is worth it .. spread out over the course of a medical career that money becomes less consequential. Of course, assuming (quite significantly) that you have the upfront $$ to put up for that.

 

[VisualEvolution]

What was your MCAT? I tend to feel lower scores (below 29) allow more forgiveness at schools with, say a 27 (10th percentile), accepting a point below or whatever.

My MCAT was a 27. The 10th percentile at the schools I got an ii at were 26, 27, and 28. This is anecdotal but my buddy got into UMich with a 28 MCAT as a non URM (probably around 5th percentile or so).

 

[krogers21]

My MCAT was a 27. The 10th percentile at the schools I got an ii at were 26, 27, and 28. This is anecdotal but my buddy got into UMich with a 28 MCAT as a non URM (probably around 5th percentile or so).

That's insane about your friend. He must've have a great story. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/cgpa-3-8-31-mcat.1058382/

That is my stats including ECs. It's by no means stellar, at least to me. My senior year I'll be tacking on another year of being an RA and also doing some clinical volunteering or become a Big Brother to a little one. Not sure yet.

 

[VisualEvolution]

That's insane about your friend. He must've have a great story. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/cgpa-3-8-31-mcat.1058382/

That is my stats including ECs. It's by no means stellar, at least to me. My senior year I'll be tacking on another year of being an RA and also doing some clinical volunteering or become a Big Brother to a little one. Not sure yet.

You're looking good. I think people in your shoes have typically had a 80%+ success rate. I can't speak in for your reach schools but you should in theory get in somewhere if you take the advice of the people who responded to your thread. Good luck!

 

[ZeaL6]

Are you an URM? Or have exceedingly strong ECs?

No lol Im a white male. I'd say my EC's are above average especially because they are unique and not cookie cutter things that everyone has, not because of the volume

 

[sliceofbread136]

Most of that 10th percentile are probably URM. So if you aren't I wouldn't bother

 

[LostinLift]

Sometimes I have to wonder if people with low MCATs end up doing well in these schools and getting competitive residencies. They will still have to take standardized tests and compete with the exceptionally brilliant people there, so what's the point of aiming for a top school if you really can't do well enough on the preliminary test or having amazing ECs to be a stellar candidate? I know if I got in with lower scores, I'd feel really inadequate compared to others there who most likely would have high scores and great achievements. I'd rather go to a lesser prestigious school where the students are around my caliber rather than try to hang with the big wigs.

Totally man, I could have went anywhere with my mcat but I'm headed to a mid-tier to destroy my idiot classmates on these tests.


But actually to OP I was below 10th percentile GPA for almost every school I received II/acceptances at. If your LizzyM is around the average, go for it.

 

[krogers21]

Totally man, I could have went anywhere with my mcat but I'm headed to a mid-tier to destroy my idiot classmates on these tests.


But actually to OP I was below 10th percentile GPA for almost every school I received II/acceptances at. If your LizzyM is around the average, go for it.

Based on my LizzyM where you subtract 1 (gpa*10+mcat-1) then I have around a 69.3 which puts me in the "hopeful" category for my dream schools. But idk what to think... What was your mcat?

 

[Zelda840]

I have been wondering about this too since I have a low mcat (29) and higher gpa (3.9). It's a weird position to be in.

 

[LostinLift]

Based on my lizzym where you subtract 1 (gpa*10+mcat-1) then I have around a 69.3 which puts me in the "hopeful" category for my dream schools. But idk what to think... What was your mcat?

It was above 90th for most schools, GPA below 10th. My LizzyM was a bit less than yours, feel confident and apply where you want. If studying a bit for a retake this summer is a possibility sign up for a retake. You can update schools with this information for the most part.

 

[ChemEngMD]

Most of that 10th percentile are probably URM. So if you aren't I wouldn't bother

Or children of rich alumni or donors 😉

 

[krogers21]

It was above 90th for most schools, GPA below 10th. My lizzyM was a bit less than yours, feel confident and apply where you want. If studying a bit for a retake this summer is a possibility sign up for a retake. You can update schools with this information for the most part.

Have you been accepted and/or applied? I'd really like Duke orCornell but I'm stuck in this dilemma of whether its a financial waste of time because of my low mcat despite my fairly high GPA.

 

[sourdoughllama]

Have you been accepted and/or applied? I'd really like Duke orCornell but I'm stuck in this dilemma of whether its a financial waste of time because of my low mcat despite my fairly high GPA.

I think every other person has this. I personally think high MCAT + low GPA has a much better shot than high GPA + low MCAT since the latter is a dime a dozen

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

I think every other person has this. I personally think high MCAT + low GPA has a much better shot than high GPA + low MCAT since the latter is a dime a dozen

There's also a lot to be said for the standardization of the MCAT when compared to the varying difficulties of accounting for every school's grading system.

 

[terp720]

Have you been accepted and/or applied? I'd really like Duke orCornell but I'm stuck in this dilemma of whether its a financial waste of time because of my low mcat despite my fairly high GPA.

Sending the primary+secondary will be about $120 for Duke and $110 for Cornell. Only you know your financial situation and can decide whether you can afford it.

But, I stand by my previous comment. For me at least, I am kind of a "what if" person, and I wouldn't want to not at least give myself the chance. Is it risky and are your chances lower than at other schools? Maybe. But you definitely can't get accepted to a school to which you never applied..

 

[yanks26dmb]

How should I interpret this data?

I'm below the GPA 10th percentile at pretty much every MD school out there. I'm a non-trad, about 11 years removed from a terrible freshman/soph year(s) which screwed my gpa. My cGPA is a 3.0. My science is a 3.7. My post-bacc is a 4.0. I've been told to apply to MD given my situation...but considering I'm sub 10th percentile pretty much everywhere, how do I determine where to apply?

 

[ace12345]

Have you been accepted and/or applied? I'd really like Duke orCornell but I'm stuck in this dilemma of whether its a financial waste of time because of my low mcat despite my fairly high GPA.

Take the shots you want to take. You will only regret it if you never give yourself the chance. There aren't that many times in your life you'll get to be a free agent like this, just know that it may be a long shot

 

[Chosey]

What if only the sGPA is in the 10th percentile and MCAT and cGPA iswithin the 10-90 range? I screwed up freshman year with orgo and multivariable calculus and it dragged down my sGPA by ALOT but i managed to bounce back so my MCAT and c GPAs are fine. Is that still not worth applying 🤔 Cause my sGPa's below avg for just about any school and my MCAT is above avg for most schools.

 

[Okazaki Frag Grenade]

What if only the sGPA is in the 10th percentile and MCAT and cGPA iswithin the 10-90 range? I screwed up freshman year with orgo and multivariable calculus and it dragged down my sGPA by ALOT but i managed to bounce back so my MCAT and c GPAs are fine. Is that still not worth applying 🤔 Cause my sGPa's below avg for just about any school and my MCAT is above avg for most schools.

What are your stats specifically? that might help a bit more

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

What if only the sGPA is in the 10th percentile and MCAT and cGPA iswithin the 10-90 range? I screwed up freshman year with orgo and multivariable calculus and it dragged down my sGPA by ALOT but i managed to bounce back so my MCAT and c GPAs are fine. Is that still not worth applying 🤔 Cause my sGPa's below avg for just about any school and my MCAT is above avg for most schools.

How low we talkin?

For reference my sGPA (3.19) was pretty much at or below the 10th percentile for almost every school. I was able to get accepted several places, but it took a good MCAT (35) and otherwise rather solid ECs and back story. My profile sounds similar to yours.

Target schools that you have a good "fit" at. Hometown/state schools, and other niche places that you could really sell yourself/unique attributes to.

 

[breezy16]

High GPA, meh MCAT. Got more love from "reach schools" than ones within my "range." Wish I applied to more reach schools. (I am immensely happy with my outcomes this year!)
I had great ECs, LORs, and back story. (Also not URM)
Found out my waitlists were more about a numerical score attached to my name (overall scoring) rather than the whole package debate, not surprising.
For interviews at these schools (below 10% but works everywhere), sell yourself (stand OUT) and be a decent human. Listen to others around you and stop being so awkward. I couldn't believe at how socially awkward my fellow interviewees were at some points.

 

[GrapesofRath]

In general while not ideal often if you have to pick one, the GPA being <10th percentile is the one Id pick than the MCAT being <10th percentile for a school Id want to apply to. Numerical GPA's in and of themselves arent what matter as much as the overall message they convey and the context behind them. Grade trends, UG attended, post-baccs/SMPs, other commitments while in college etc all of that matters significantly.

As an example pretending like Harvard wont give serious consideration to an otherwise top applicant from a top school who's GPA falls just shorter of the 3.73 10th percentile because of the numerical GPA in and of itself is false. The odds of them giving consideration with a <32 MCAT though are probably going to be longer and the standard for being "compelling" enough to warrant consideration is probably going to be higher with a <32 there than a <3.73. Same thing you could probably say about lower tier schools in many cases: a <3.52 GPA in and of itself is probably less likely to be problematic and as difficult a hurdle to overcome at a school like Creighton than a <28 MCAT.

Keep in mind the average URM MD matriculant stats are around 3.45-3.5/27. In other words, a much greater proportion of URMs make up the <10th percentile MCAT group than the <10th percentile GPA group.

 

[Mansamusa]

We can only give you anecdotes, but I got into a school where my sGPA is below the 10th percentile by over 0.1 and my MCAT is average (though a few points above that of the average matriculant). I'm white.

Give it a shot if you have money

 

[wavvvvvves123]

my gpa was in the 10th percentile for 7 of the schools i applied to and i got into 5 of them. granted, my MCAT made up for my lackluster gpa and i had the research and ECs to show that even tho my grades weren't the best, i was at least spending my time doing a lot of productive things. so i still gave em a shot and it ended up being worth it! gpa is only one component of a strong application. if all other areas are excellent, then don't let being in the 10th percentile prevent you from simply applying.

and make sure you apply to a lot of schools where your stats are a fit of course

 

[Petrichor1]

I have a hard time believing this though. I have a 3.8/31, but I find it hard to believe I could be competitive at Duke or NYU even with strong ECs.

You have to look at what the school prizes beyond gpa and mcat. For example, Duke's application literally asks you of the publications you have had. That in it of itself puts the school beyond many people's reaches. I personally think this school is a drop in the bucket for wishful thinkers and in eventuality what you fear (rejection) is actually what happens. For schools like these, if you are below stellar...you need to apply elsewhere if money is short.

 

[Goro]

Upward trends are always a good thing. This can be filed under the "compelling story" I mentioned above.

What if only the sGPA is in the 10th percentile and MCAT and cGPA iswithin the 10-90 range? I screwed up freshman year with orgo and multivariable calculus and it dragged down my sGPA by ALOT but i managed to bounce back so my MCAT and c GPAs are fine. Is that still not worth applying 🤔 Cause my sGPa's below avg for just about any school and my MCAT is above avg for most schools.

 

[DokterMom]

With an MCAT at the 10% mark, your application won't go straight into the trash before it's read. But it likely will be read with a less-than-stellar first impression -- especially if it's getting later into the application season and your reader is already feeling a little burnt.

Are your ECs and personal statement enough to turn that initial 'less-than-stellar' impression around? Not just "fine" but "Oh - Wow!" good? If so, then go ahead and apply. If not, focus on more realistic targets.

 

[Chosey]

How low we talkin?

For reference my sGPA (3.19) was pretty much at or below the 10th percentile for almost every school. I was able to get accepted several places, but it took a good MCAT (35) and otherwise rather solid ECs and back story. My profile sounds similar to yours.

Target schools that you have a good "fit" at. Hometown/state schools, and other niche places that you could really sell yourself/unique attributes to.

Thanks for the tip! I have 3.45 sgpa so for most schools im around or barely making the 10 percentile. Upward trend tho! if any of those schools cares xD So yea i m hoping they ll see that and it wont be a complete waste of money. my mcat s 157 (the sec time around).

 

[Mansamusa]

Thanks for the tip! I have 3.45 sgpa so for most schools im around or barely making the 10 percentile. Upward trend tho! if any of those schools cares xD So yea i m hoping they ll see that and it wont be a complete waste of money. my mcat s 157 (the sec time around).

You sure that is your MCAT score?

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

A 157 would be below the 0th percentile...

In fact I believe you would get significantly more points than that just for writing your name.