THE truth about Vagelos Program at UPENN

[johnstoner]

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Hello all,

I was one of the first graduating class of vagelos scholars. Here is the actual low down.

First of all just wanted ya'll to know that I'll be attending TULANE medical school next fall whooo hooo...go Greenwaves!!!

People should go to the most competitive school they can that aren't as competitive as it seems...ie. go to penn if you get in...if you take the easy courses here...you can do very very well.

by that meaning...do not do vagelos if you are premed!!!!
The goal of this program is to create SCIENTISTS not DOCTORS. well maybe Doctor scientist but not doctors. Therefore if you ahve lots of research experience as this program will give you...you have a better shot at MD/PHD or a well respected PHD program.

The people who ended up at Penn Med and Columbia are really smart as is the chick that go into harvard PHD. The thing is you HAVE to do a dual science major or a major and masters in 4 years...do NOT think you can do master and major in 4 years! MOST ended up finishing up work during summer after senior year.

I think i would not have done vagelos if i had to do it over again...i didn't quit b/c i had a screwed up gpa by the time i wanted to quit so i figured if i didn't finish the program i would have NOTHING to show for my low GPA.

Your summers are messed up b/c you HAVE to do research if you don't want to then thats too bad!

just go to penn and major in anthropology or linguistics...take a year abroad and have lots of fun get straight As and go to hopkins medical school. or go do the vagelos program...apply to 22 med schools get rejected by 17 of them and thank your lucky stars you got into Tulane!!!!

by the way...vagelos is an awesome dude

 

[Bonds756]

The program "only" requires two summers of research. If you are that seriously considering the program, it sounds like you would probably be doing at least some research anyway. Financially, the program is a great deal and it does look very impressive on apps no matter what career path you end of taking.
An important that that johnstoner said is that the program was not designed for pre-med students, but rather for PhDs and MD/PhDs. That isn't to say a lot of people in the program don't have every intention of going to med school, though. You will sure for have to put more work into maintaining your GPA in the program (usually all college students have their lowest GPAs in the first year, especially first semester, since they are not used to how much work is need. Same thing applies to this program, but since you are taking multiple science classes right off the bat, you have to be prepared or your GPA will suffer). As you know, to get into a good med school from MIT, you will also have to do a lot of work.
The double major added a lot of classes and decreases the flexibility you have, it actually usually raises people's GPAs since they double in related fields that count some of the same classes or easy majors like linguistics or anthro.
It is a decision I had to make when I came to Penn, be in the program or not. I thought I would be a chem major anyway, so I thought why not do it. However, I ended up majoring in the History and Sociology of Science and was able to take a lot of really interesting classes since I was not as locking into a set curriculum.
The program is great, so it is a choice you have to make. I think the one between MIT and Penn, regradless of the program, is an easier one.

 

[Thewonderer]

Let's face it.... Penn students are obssessed about wharton. Tons of kids want to transfer to Wharton from the college and the engineering school. Vagelos program pales in comparison to Wharton. It is sad.

 

[johnstoner]

first of all, you can't compare the 2 programs...wharton and vagelos...wharton is a school for business! vagelos is a program under the college! you have to compare wharton to the college of arts and sciences.

wharton has 500 students every year...vagelos has maybe 25! when i graduated..i was with a group of fellow 10 vagelos members!!!!

secondly...going into business school makes sense if you are going into business but not as much sense if the sole purpose wharton (as a premed) is to go to medical school...

you can go to wharton and be premed...i know a girl who was wharton and is now headed to johns hopkins...she's really smart and she studied her butt off with less options of goofing off.

serious if you want the easiest path to medical school...kick ass in the science requirement in the general studies department (the night class wayyyyy easier!) and major in a relatively easy major but also supplement with meaningful clinical activities

 

[DrBravesgirl]

Originally posted by johnstoner

First of all just wanted ya'll to know that I'll be attending TULANE medical school next fall whooo hooo...go Greenwaves!!!

as a current tulane senior and a member of the tulane med class of 2007, welcome to new orleans! but i feel compelled to tell you..it's the GREEN WAVE, not waves, and it's two words. see you at orientation! (whenever that may be..i haven't heard anything from them. but i'm thinking it's going to be sometime in the aug. 8-11 time frame).

 

[IntlMD07]

THAT EARLY!!!!!!!!????????????

OHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I was actually hoping that med school would only start in late August, this is SO SAD!!!!!!!

I agree with johnstoner 110% If only I had majored in Art History, where I had all of the As...

Go green wave (what is one anyway)!!!

 

[johnstoner]

intlmd07 are you going to tulane also for med school?

Dr. Bravesgirl, believe it or not i'm actually coming for the summer sessions for mph. I took a year off and did absolutely nothing so i'm going to start early. I'll be in nola late may, giving me ample time to get adjusted to nawlins from hawaii...hehe- wonder how hot its going to be there, back to wearing my board shorts, slippers, and muscle shirts.

 

[Bonds756]

Originally posted by Thewonderer
Let's face it.... Penn students are obssessed about wharton. Tons of kids want to transfer to Wharton from the college and the engineering school. Vagelos program pales in comparison to Wharton. It is sad.

I am just a little curious where you a getting this from?
It is true that a lot of people in Wharton think they are this ****, more so that the other undergrad colleges at Penn. But it is a particular type or student, in addition to obviously being a business major, that goes to Wharton. Not many college and undergrad people want to try to transfer into Wharton once they get here. There are, however, about two dozen engineering students who do combined degrees with Wharton in a special "Management and Technology" program, probably more prestigious than Vagelos. And the students in Vagelos are among the top undergrad scientists at Penn, so it is a prestigious program. Yes, just being in Wharton is a big deal, but there are a lot of people in the entire school of wharton, including most athletes at Penn (not that they aren't smart, but they are often placed into Wharton). There are at time feelings of wharton vs the college (no one really pays too much attention to the engineers), true, but the Penn undergrad experience is far, far from revolving around our business school.

 

[IntlMD07]

john,

In answer to your question, I will be attending tulane unless a miracle strikes and I get off the waitlist at columbia (I say miracle because my bf is at Penn and I want to be close to phila). So, my future is in the hands of those with multiple acceptances.

I wish I could join for the mph, but I will be working at penn until july, when I am going to go home for a month.

Have fun in the nawlins summer,
see you in august,
-IntlMD07

 

[Thewonderer]

Originally posted by Bonds756
I am just a little curious where you a getting this from?
It is true that a lot of people in Wharton think they are this ****, more so that the other undergrad colleges at Penn.

From talking to the undergrads at Penn, it just seems to be that way too many of them just want to transfer to Wharton. If not, then they want to take as many classes as they can at Wharton. This is especially true with the engineering school because many of the graduates do not go into engineering-related fields but instead, go into finances.

Do people really care about the Vagelos program? I just think that they only care about Wharton and business, period.

As for the College (of Arts and Sciences), I just don't think that Penn over all gives a big advantage in terms of med school admissions. Penn might send lots of kids to its own med school but really few to Harvard, Hopkins, Cornell, Duke, etc. med schools. There are other Ivy league schools having better records. This is the impression I get when I interviewed at various med schools where they give out little booklets showing where people have done their undergrads at (i.e. Columbia med has a book on curriculum, faculty and students. Yale med gives out info on their students' thesis titles and along with it, their undergrad institutions, etc.).

 

[UCLA2000]

Originally posted by johnstoner

The people who ended up at Penn Med and Columbia are really smart as is the chick that go into harvard PHD.

Really?....

 

[Bonds756]

Originally posted by Thewonderer
As for the College (of Arts and Sciences), I just don't think that Penn over all gives a big advantage in terms of med school admissions. Penn might send lots of kids to its own med school but really few to Harvard, Hopkins, Cornell, Duke, etc. med schools. There are other Ivy league schools having better records. This is the impression I get when I interviewed at various med schools where they give out little booklets showing where people have done their undergrads at (i.e. Columbia med has a book on curriculum, faculty and students. Yale med gives out info on their students' thesis titles and along with it, their undergrad institutions, etc.).

Ah yes, the infamous Columbia book. Sorta made me sick how half their class was just from Harvard. A couple Princeton, Columbia, Penn, Yale, MIT people but just mostly Harvard.
Columbia in a lot of ways is an exception, and the number of Harvard acceptances in just one.
Penn does have a good record of getting people into med school. Of the Ivy schools, I think Harvard is the only one with a higher percentage going to med school. And while you noted that Penn takes several of its own into its med school, people do get into those schools listed above. But they often choose to stay (me being an example).

 

[johnstoner]

Originally posted by UCLA2000
Really?....

I guess reading what i wrote now...it made me sound very very dumb. obviously they were smart but i was saying they were heck smarter than i am and did very well as vagelos scholars unlike me...(one of the vagelos rejects)---my buddy cheeser and I are the black sheep of the vagelos scholars.