The Watering Hole (social)

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Saved a kitten! From a... Watering Hole (of death... aka a drain pipe that was flooding). I have no idea how many days it had been stuck. 🙁

These are all strays that fam take care of, but they come and go, so it's hard to keep inventory every night. I don't normally do any of the feeding or care, but I get fearful when not all 4 of the littlest littermates show up at night. They're always together.

Spoiler pic... I finally gained access after multiple rounds of cutting. [I safely cut into the pipe... used my left hand fingers as a guard or index after visually checking, then cut outside my fingers to ensure I could never accidentally cut the cat].

06 - Hello.jpg

Came home from driving around yesterday evening and started doing random yard work. Heard mewing but saw no cat. It was persistent, which these strays do not do (they don't even meow except food time), so alarm bells went off.

Rushed inside and grabbed my headlamp, a shovel, aviation snips in case I need to cut the [plastic] pipe, and a Shark Carpet Expert extractor (it handles scrubbing/vacuuming wet carpets but would choke on mud...but I didn't care tbh). My initial fear was drowning since the drain pipe was completely occluded with muddy water at the opening, so I was deciding whether to grab the new $5 hand pump from Harbor Freight or the $200-300 Shark from Costco that's not designed for anything but liquid. [I bought a nice wet/dry ShopVac but it's still unopened and didn't wanna mess with that...]

Documented the whole before/during/after ordeal with video and a few pics!

Uploaded the videos and pics somewhere and was gonna post the link here but didn't want Google and the world to pick it up tbh, plus some doxxing potential. Might share in Lounge Saturday since that's protected from search engines. Lowkey went on a journey of frustration, confusion, elation after I finally got through to it and got it out, then some worry/anxiety it'd recover.

I have zero vet client experience, and I'm not asking for actual advice. I don't have any funds to do a multi-hundred (or thousand) bill, but if it's something small for something necessary, I'll figure out a way. Is there anything I can hypothetically ask that doesn't fall under any sussy advice giving but more casual? aka "It needs to get seen immediately" or "it should be fine..."?

I need sleep, so I hope there's nothing emergent.

Some concerns:

1. Hygiene. It was soaking in muddy filth for ... I don't know how long it's been there. 1 day? 2-3? I spent a couple hours trying to clean it with a warm soaked towel and tried a couple warm baths, but I couldn't get it to tolerate the bath (understandable, considering it's been trapped in water forever). It could be soaking in its own feces. I don't know about infection or any open wounds.
2. Any hypoxemia/stiffness from being stuck for hours or days.
3. Hypothermia (mostly addressed). It's highs in 70s or 60s and lows 50s here and there's a heating pad (set to the lowest setting) under some towels in their little temporary homeless shelters. I found that towel + space heater for a little bit helped dry off a lot of the gunk. Littermates share body heat. I was mostly concerned about it being soaking wet/dirty and losing heat fast.
4. Food and water have been addressed (as a layperson).
5. Any weird MSK wonkiness from being still for a long time. It's able to use all 4 legs, but the rear half is super degraded, which makes sense.​

14 - Right Hind Leg 2.jpg

I cannot monitor any more. I've been awake a couple days and don't want to add to the problem.

Any cleaning or bathing tips? Wish I could just put it in a warm bath. Towel is tedious and not that great for removing mud/feces. Water only? [Edit: some half-siblings are helping with the cleaning, which I'm grateful for. The mother was completely hissing and growling and rejecting at the poor kitten when it went up to her.]

I had some pics of it sleeping in a standing, 90 degree posture (as if still stuck in the drain pipe), both without support and with support (sleeping on a sibling), but SDN censored all of them and wouldn't allow the upload (I doubt sleeping kittens look like anything sus, but welp). That worried the hell out of me as if it lost all ROM or something. Then another pic of it in a normal position, so I'm probably overworrying. It's shaking left front paw like it's bothersome, but it's weight-bearing so I dunno.

Mostly overworried about the infection risk if it has any open wounds.

Again, this isn't my pet (never had one yet!) and is a stray and I can't really do much. But lowkey went through an emotional experience getting it free and I'd be super super upset with myself if it died and I knew that I didn't figure out how to find a SA GP or something with money that's earmarked for my own care.

If any of my questions were ToS no-nos and too specific, I'll happily edit them out!
 
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Saved a kitten! From a... Watering Hole (of death... aka a drain pipe that was flooding). I have no idea how many days it had been stuck. 🙁

These are all strays that fam take care of, but they come and go, so it's hard to keep inventory every night. I don't normally do any of the feeding or care, but I get fearful when not all 4 of the littlest littermates show up at night. They're always together.

Spoiler pic... I finally gained access after multiple rounds of cutting. [I safely cut into the pipe... used my left hand fingers as a guard or index after visually checking, then cut outside my fingers to ensure I could never accidentally cut the cat].

View attachment 396414

Came home from driving around yesterday evening and started doing random yard work. Heard mewing but saw no cat. It was persistent, which these strays do not do (they don't even meow except food time), so alarm bells went off.

Rushed inside and grabbed my headlamp, a shovel, aviation snips in case I need to cut the [plastic] pipe, and a Shark Carpet Expert extractor (it handles scrubbing/vacuuming wet carpets but would choke on mud...but I didn't care tbh). My initial fear was drowning since the drain pipe was completely occluded with muddy water at the opening, so I was deciding whether to grab the new $5 hand pump from Harbor Freight or the $200-300 Shark from Costco that's not designed for anything but liquid. [I bought a nice wet/dry ShopVac but it's still unopened and didn't wanna mess with that...]

Documented the whole before/during/after ordeal with video and a few pics!

Uploaded the videos and pics somewhere and was gonna post the link here but didn't want Google and the world to pick it up tbh, plus some doxxing potential. Might share in Lounge Saturday since that's protected from search engines. Lowkey went on a journey of frustration, confusion, elation after I finally got through to it and got it out, then some worry/anxiety it'd recover.

I have zero vet client experience, and I'm not asking for actual advice. I don't have any funds to do a multi-hundred (or thousand) bill, but if it's something small for something necessary, I'll figure out a way. Is there anything I can hypothetically ask that doesn't fall under any sussy advice giving but more casual? aka "It needs to get seen immediately" or "it should be fine..."?

I need sleep, so I hope there's nothing emergent.

Some concerns:​
1. Hygiene. It was soaking in muddy filth for ... I don't know how long it's been there. 1 day? 2-3? I spent a couple hours trying to clean it with a warm soaked towel and tried a couple warm baths, but I couldn't get it to tolerate the bath (understandable, considering it's been trapped in water forever). It could be soaking in its own feces. I don't know about infection or any open wounds.​
2. Any hypoxemia/stiffness from being stuck for hours or days.​
3. Hypothermia (mostly addressed). It's highs in 70s or 60s and lows 50s here and there's a heating pad (set to the lowest setting) under some towels in their little temporary homeless shelters. I found that towel + space heater for a little bit helped dry off a lot of the gunk. Littermates share body heat. I was mostly concerned about it being soaking wet/dirty and losing heat fast.​
4. Food and water have been addressed (as a layperson).​
5. Any weird MSK wonkiness from being still for a long time. It's able to use all 4 legs, but the rear half is super degraded, which makes sense.​

View attachment 396415

I cannot monitor any more. I've been awake a couple days and don't want to add to the problem.

Any cleaning or bathing tips? Wish I could just put it in a warm bath. Towel is tedious and not that great for removing mud/feces. Water only? [Edit: some half-siblings are helping with the cleaning, which I'm grateful for. The mother was completely hissing and growling and rejecting at the poor kitten when it went up to her.]

I had some pics of it sleeping in a standing, 90 degree posture (as if still stuck in the drain pipe), both without support and with support (sleeping on a sibling), but SDN censored all of them and wouldn't allow the upload (I doubt sleeping kittens look like anything sus, but welp). That worried the hell out of me as if it lost all ROM or something. Then another pic of it in a normal position, so I'm probably overworrying. It's shaking left front paw like it's bothersome, but it's weight-bearing so I dunno.

Mostly overworried about the infection risk if it has any open wounds.

Again, this isn't my pet (never had one yet!) and is a stray and I can't really do much. But lowkey went through an emotional experience getting it free and I'd be super super upset with myself if it died and I knew that I didn't figure out how to find a SA GP or something with money that's earmarked for my own care.

If any of my questions were ToS no-nos and too specific, I'll happily edit them out!
I am not sure how much can be said without me violating ToS either (@supershorty please mod smack me if I need to edit this).

Kittens, in general, are incredibly resilient creatures. If it is eating/drinking, breathing comfortably, and able to defecate/urinate (and it is imperative that you know for sure it can), then you are unlikely to be in an emergency situation unless you find severe wounds. Either surrender to a shelter if you have no plans to keep it, or take it to a GP vet for a physical exam, to get vaccines started, start deworming, and get viral testing if you want to keep it. I would not let this kitten just go back outside. This kitten needs some TLC even if it does successfully rejoin the litter. Stray cats live a rough lifestyle, and any physical ailment dramatically decreases their chances of survival.

If the kitten is unable to use its back legs at any point (cannot walk at all, drags them), then you are in an emergency situation. You can either still surrender it to a shelter during open hours (although I would not, for example, make this kitten wait overnight/through a weekend/holidays until something opens if it cannot walk) or take it to an ER. I've never worked at an ER that made a 'good samaritan' take financial responsibility for a stray.

As for a bath, warm water and dawn dish soap would do just fine. You may not be able to determine if there are wounds without washing any caked mud off.

Also, if you do decide to keep it, I recommend the names 'Pipeline' 'Piper' or 'Drainpipe.' Something like that 🙂
 
Thanks for the reply!!

Either surrender to a shelter if you have no plans to keep it
I'm not the one calling the shots in the current living situation. It's just neighborhood strays, and I don't have the heart to separate the litter -- all 20-30 neighborhood strays are mostly bonded and help each other out. I'm not sure if the shelters are no-kill here, but the South (as I'm sure you know) is stupid overcrowded, sadly. I heard they get shipped up North for adoption.

All strays live outside, even in winter. I'm planning on building a more insulated cathouse for them that's also more waterproof.

(Last year I looked into spay and neuter programs in my area after I think another SDN friend brought it up, but here the volunteer programs still charge $50/cat and you have to do your own trapping and bring them in. If there's 20 strays, that's $1000.)

Was thinking Dawn... I have some leftover Seventh Generation.

Not dragging legs, walking/running fine, it's just a bit lazy/tired/stiff. I was concerned about its stiff 90 degree sleeping posture, but it was temporary.

Was also thinking kittens are resilient, not unlike human babies.

Bahaha on the name. Thank you. 🙂



Wait did you shorten your SDN name? If you're a former Googler, hello again frand :hello:
 
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1. Subject: Good heating pads for outdoor feral cat shelter?

Asking for consumer advice, not medical advice. Winter never comes in the region I live, but it still gets to the 20s F sometimes. A relative had a heating pad (for humans), but it's small and only runs for about 2 hours before shutting off, and you have to manually go out there and turn it off and back on again. This is not possible unless I'm willing to continue to pull all-nighters.

There are 4 littermates that are very small, and I've become emotionally attached to two of them. One of the orange ones is in a teaser pic above (I have the whole rescue video, but I won't post anywhere that can be indexed and world-searchable for obvious reasons, but after saving its life and it showing how appreciative it was that I did that, it really warmed my heart.

Anyway, I got a 77-Gallon plastic tote from Home Depot (the largest they sell, about $56 or so), turned it upside down so the yellow lid is the "floor" since it has larger surface area, and took their existing towels and just did a bedliner. Took my oscillating multi-tool and cut out two doors. First night went great, and they liked their upgraded shelter, and more of the strays/ferals fit inside.

Second night I added more bedding (they didn't like the pillow) and also draped towels over the two doors to help trap in more heat.

I'm reading reviews on cat/dog heating pads on Amazon, and I was all set on buying a large sized version from 2 brands that sold well. But they had a ton of reviews like "crapped out after 2 months." "Stopped heating after 1 month." "Thermostat doesn't produce the desired temperature" and so on.

So rather than re-invent the wheel, I know a ton of you are also pet owners and lover of cats and dogs, so are there any specific heating pads that have performed well for you?

I don't have any spare currency to spend, but I'm too emotionally attached to give these guys a fighting chance to stay warm. Especially the 4 little ones, since I read kittens are especially susceptible to hypothermia. So I would be grateful if there's specific products recommended! I don't want to spend $50 only for it to crap out in a month or two or three.


I'm also considering buying a 12" Goldenrod and securely mounting it to the ceiling of the shelter but far away that it doesn't overheat the plastic and also high enough it doesn't pose a hazard to the cats. But I need to do more research on the surface temperature of the units. I do think pet heating pads are the safest (and best way to transfer heat), and I like how you can set them to run 1-24 hours, or always on, and you can set the temp to e.g. 90F or something.

Thanks again.
 
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2. Subject: Do raccoons prey on cats (esp kittens)? Whether for food or just to kill. Note: It's 20s F this week so there may be more desperation and food scarcity on the racoon's point of view.

^^ So that post (keeping them warm in my huge shelter) was my biggest worry until tonight. We have various 1 opossum and about 3 raccoons (1 is a huge one) that scavenges our deck and eats the cat food. They don't bother the cats apparently. It's not humanly possible to babysit the strays and be their protectors for reasons that are self-evident.

Tonight I checked on the shelter before bed. The 4 little ones have always been home (especially overnight), and they're present for meals.

I asked my stepdad (who fed them tonight) if the 4 little ones were present for mealtime, and he said he didn't remember. That infuriates me.

It's out of place for them to not be in the shelter, since the adults (there's 10+ older siblings and cousins/uncles/aunts/grandma/etc)... but always the little 4 get a place inside. Not tonight. I started worrying because it's not like them.

I noticed the large raccoon kept coming back over and over to our deck. There was still some dry food left so I assume it was coming to raid the cat food. But the tinfoil part of me is that perhaps the raccoon started going for the cats, including the little ones?

I grabbed a jacket and flashlight and searched all over the perimeter. Found a few adults in the front yard bushes and side yard bushes and randos here and there, but no sign of the 4 little ones (or their mom, who might be pregnant again, but I'm not a doc... her belly just drags more when crouched and eating.)

I scared the raccoon (and some of the cats, many are still scared of me unless I'm feeding them) and they all ran down the deck and across the backyard. I noticed -- coincidence? -- that the raccoon was making a bee line for one of the adult cats and appeared to take the same path, as if chasing it down. But they could both just be running away from me. Right? Or was the raccoon chasing the cat?

It's Christmas, and I'm worried sick and may not sleep tonight. My tinfoil fear is that raccoons can prey on cats +/- small kittens as a food source or to kill them for funsies, and after the emotional rollercoaster of saving the little orange one's life from being stuck in a pipe underground, I'll be damned if anyone hurts my children.

I'm gonna do so more web searching but would appreciate if you guys can calm my worries that the raccoon is only a nuisance to eat their food, not them.

I saw a pile of droppings in the woods in our backyard. Probably raccoon or opossum, not sure.
 
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3. Side question on animal attacks:

I posted this in the Lounge several months ago but have yet to get a response. The family does have one cat that is actually ours. Like spayed, shots, vet care, mostly indoor. But she's been attacked in our own garage at least 3 times now, and there's just piles of her black and white fur all over our garage from the damage, and sometimes she limps.

A couple months ago I spoke with my stepdad and said we shouldn't let our cat outdoors (or leave the garage door cracked open) without us directly supervising her and being there to protect her from other cats or any other predators. He agreed and said he wouldn't open the door again.

That lasted a few weeks, and I've found him cracking the garage door and letting the cat into the garage (who goes outside and inside as she pleases) without me knowing about it. It sets off my worries.

A couple nights ago I noticed black and white fur in the garage again. It's definitely hers.

I'm ****ing livid. How do I "get" my stepdad to be congruent with words and actions? He has lied to me so many dozens and dozens and dozens of times that I truly don't trust him, and I don't know if that's a me problem learning to forgive others and "reset" and trust them again, or if I'm not the problem and the liar is the problem? Thing is, I don't know what words to say to get him to stop having incongruence between words and actions. It seems logical and self-evident that if our cat constantly gets attacked in her own home that we should maybe ****ing protect her and not leave her out in the garage or outdoors to fend for herself?

Is there something I can do? Any magical words I can say? Am I a bad communicator? I'm just at my wit's end, because all of these things are preventable. So then it logically makes me wonder if it's intentional. Knowing that there are other stray cats to attack our own cat in our own home (and bigger animals like the rare coyote) and still letting her loose. Does that make sense? Because it doesn't make sense to know better from experience and still do the very thing again that puts our child pet in danger.

I did tell stepdad that she got attacked a couple days ago and to please not crack the garage door to let her outside unless one of us is there 100% to watch her. (My stepdad is the enabler and caretaker for my super frail mom and obeys her every command and wish, so perhaps he simply doesn't care that his words and actions match?) He said, once again, that he wouldn't let her out. Can I trust him this time? My gut says no, but I don't know logically speaking how to fix a completely idiotically preventable situation. In the end, it's our poor cat getting attacked at home, likely from an invading bigger and younger cat, and without cameras, I don't know who it is.
 
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1. Subject: Good heating pads for outdoor feral cat shelter?

No joke, straw. Don't want something with cloth cause then it absorbs moisture and then can freeze. Which then just conducts further freezing temps within the shelter. A thick bedding of straw utilizes their body temp well. Trying to insulate the tub itself may help as well. Just don't have pointers on that.

2. Subject: Do raccoons prey on cats (esp kittens)? Whether for food or just to kill. Note: It's 20s F this week so there may be more desperation and food scarcity on the racoon's point of view.

Raccoons are more of a scavenger species, but I've seen them jack up a dog pretty good. If it perceives competition or easy food, then it may square up. But not necessarily will purposely go for a full grown cat. Hard to say for kittens specifically though.

As far as your SFIL, that's infuriating. With family things like this, I turn into a bitch unapologetically.

Without knowing the family dynamics, I would tell him he is financially responsible for the next ER bill the cat goes through, including any traumatic emergency euthanasia if the cat were to survive with horrendous injuries. At my place, it's 110-135 exam fee, 85 wound care, 150 sedation (drugs, monitoring, and oxygen), 60 for meds to go home, and that's if it's not a surgical procedure (like a laceration repair). If surgery is needed 11/min surgical time, 20 for the gloves, 60 for the surgery pack, 30 for the drain. Literally expect 800 for a cat attack repair. A euthanasia for the average cat is 350-450 with private cremation and keepsakes; something like 250-300 with general cremation.

If the money scare doesn't work or isn't an option because of dynamics, you can try the guilt trip of telling him that everyone who cares for the cat will know he's the direct reason it's injured/dead.
 
Like a true pathologist, I will sit on the fence and not commit. Correlate clinically.

I acknowledge true/traditional chili does not have beans. And I’ve eaten it that way. But when I make it for myself I do usually make it as spicy-meat-and-bean soup. More nutrients and beans are cheap compared to meat, man.

I actually bought stuff to make chili this week.
 
Like a true pathologist, I will sit on the fence and not commit. Correlate clinically.

I acknowledge true/traditional chili does not have beans. And I’ve eaten it that way. But when I make it for myself I do usually make it as spicy-meat-and-bean soup. More nutrients and beans are cheap compared to meat, man.

I actually bought stuff to make chili this week.
The true traditional stuff was in fact served with beans, they just weren't in the same pot
 
The Great Chili Debate of beans vs no beans came up at work today and I thought you all needed to be made aware
I have been converted to a bean person, completely against my will. I am strongly anti-bean, my spouse refuses to make chili without beans. So I cave and eat the beans, but know that my true nostalgic childhood meal was Hormel no bean chili, aka the people version of wet dog food.

I think the real debate is cinnamon roll vs. no cinnamon roll where the only correct answer is no cinnamon roll and midwesterners/southerners are just psychopaths.
 
I think the real debate is cinnamon roll vs. no cinnamon roll where the only correct answer is no cinnamon roll and midwesterners/southerners are just psychopaths.
They brainwash us from childhood. Seriously, I remember school lunches from K-2 and when we had chili they would serve it with a cheddar cheese stick, some carrots, and a cinnamon roll as dessert. At home we never had that, only school.

My weird family chili rituals are that my dad eats chili out of this one very specific Tupperware bowl we’ve had my entire 35 year life. That’s the only thing he uses that bowl for is chili. My mom puts leftovers and other food in it, but on chili night that’s dads chili bowl.
 
Well I'm now thinking that whatever we call "chili" in Nova Scotia isn't chili by U.S. standards lol. Growing up my mum would make it sometimes in the slow cooker. It was black beans, beef, onions, garlic, & tomato. We didn't add any extra spice because the black beans were spicy enough... in fact, I had a black bean & chickpea wrap a few weeks ago & it was so spicy to me that I was struggling to eat it... I tried guacamole once at an international restaurant & I also found it to be decently spicy. 😳

One of my American classmates complained that we have an absolutely abysmal spice availability here, & I think she's probably right. What are these "hot chips" you speak of???
 
Not like together-together (or at least not that I’ve seen, people are weird). But as dessert. It’s a thing. But I do believe it’s a thing because lunch ladies made it a thing.
See, that’s acceptable but I’ve seen **** like THIS which leads me to believe otherwise and that people ARE mixing them.
1740143395679.jpeg
 
UNFORTUNATELY.
SOME PEOPLE EAT CINNAMON ROLLS WITH THEIR CHILI.
this is criminal behavior.


so is eating kraft cheese with apple pie.

Also eta:
I think the real debate is cinnamon roll vs. no cinnamon roll where the only correct answer is no cinnamon roll and midwesterners/southerners are just psychopaths.
I have lived in both the midwest and the south (Florida...not true 'southern culture' to some people) for substantial parts of my life and have never heard of the cinna roll + chili combo. Where is this actually a thing?
 
this is criminal behavior.


so is eating kraft cheese with apple pie.

Also eta:

I have lived in both the midwest and the south (Florida...not true 'southern culture' to some people) for substantial parts of my life and have never heard of the cinna roll + chili combo. Where is this actually a thing?
I’d like to think us Floridians are more refined than that (barely…)
 
this is criminal behavior.


so is eating kraft cheese with apple pie.

Also eta:

I have lived in both the midwest and the south (Florida...not true 'southern culture' to some people) for substantial parts of my life and have never heard of the cinna roll + chili combo. Where is this actually a thing?
The Smithsonian Magazine is as good a resource as any, right?


Unless I have been severely bamboozled by the internet, I've heard Kansas, Kentucky, Wyoming, South Dakota, and Nebraska as states that do this.

I don't really have a leg to stand on though. Not an odd dish, but Vermonters call soft serve "creemees", said exactly how it looks.

I got a lot of strange looks in college before I figured it out.
 
One of my American classmates complained that we have an absolutely abysmal spice availability here, & I think she's probably right. What are these "hot chips" you speak of???
Like flaming hot Cheetos? Takis? Are your black beans seasoned?? I don't have a huge spice tolerance but I can eat most Mexican food and Indian food without much issue. I feel like there's a difference between spicy - flavor and spicy - hurt. I don't like spicy - hurt but some people do.
 
I'll concede a bit and say that it is absolutely a midwest thing to put a healthy amount of cinnamon into chili (but it's not always in your standard chili recipe). Also happens to be one of my least favorite things to discover on the first spoonful.

I absolutely love cinnamon but I have a huge mental hurdle I can't overcome when it comes to savory foods having sweetness. Only exception is when honey is used (honey garlic anything, for example).
 
Like flaming hot Cheetos? Takis? Are your black beans seasoned?? I don't have a huge spice tolerance but I can eat most Mexican food and Indian food without much issue. I feel like there's a difference between spicy - flavor and spicy - hurt. I don't like spicy - hurt but some people do.
I've never seen flaming hot Cheetos in any store around here tbh. We have Takis but supposedly they're right diluted compared to the U.S. version. I've never tried them because the neon blue colour scares me lol...

I'm honestly unsure if the black beans come seasoned, but this is making me think they might be?? They always had a little bit of a kick to them regardless of the dish they were in.
 
Well I'm now thinking that whatever we call "chili" in Nova Scotia isn't chili by U.S. standards lol. Growing up my mum would make it sometimes in the slow cooker. It was black beans, beef, onions, garlic, & tomato. We didn't add any extra spice because the black beans were spicy enough... in fact, I had a black bean & chickpea wrap a few weeks ago & it was so spicy to me that I was struggling to eat it... I tried guacamole once at an international restaurant & I also found it to be decently spicy. 😳

One of my American classmates complained that we have an absolutely abysmal spice availability here, & I think she's probably right. What are these "hot chips" you speak of???
Not bring race into it but black beans being too spicy is the whitest thing I have ever heard.
 
I'll concede a bit and say that it is absolutely a midwest thing to put a healthy amount of cinnamon into chili (but it's not always in your standard chili recipe). Also happens to be one of my least favorite things to discover on the first spoonful.

I absolutely love cinnamon but I have a huge mental hurdle I can't overcome when it comes to savory foods having sweetness. Only exception is when honey is used (honey garlic anything, for example).

As a fellow Midwesterner, same! I ordered food to-go from Texas Roadhouse when one first opened around here. I thought sweet vegetables and rolls were just wrong. My green beans are so much better with bacon grease and broccoli needs cheese, however, lol.

I have never tried honey garlic. I will try that sometime. 🙂 What is your favorite honey garlic flavored item?
 
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As a fellow Midwesterner, same! I ordered food to-go from Texas Roadhouse when one first opened around here. I thought sweet vegetables and rolls were just wrong. My green beans are so much better with bacon grease and broccoli needs cheese, however, lol.

I have never tried honey garlic. I will try that sometime. 🙂 What is your favorite honey garlic flavored item?
Ok, but the cinnamon butter rolls are actually good :laugh: Maybe the carbs trick my brain.

I've really only tried honey garlic shrimp and chicken. Another thing to consider trying is honey walnut shrimp at Panda Express (or your local Chinese place if they have it). I had some concerns over it, but after I tried it, it quickly became my vet school post-exam meal.
 
UNFORTUNATELY.
SOME PEOPLE EAT CINNAMON ROLLS WITH THEIR CHILI.
Okay yes, it sounds weird, but my grandmother's homemade spaghetti sauce recipe (tomato-based) calls for a 1/2 teaspoon of cinnamon about 20m prior to being done simmering. Honestly, when I skip that step I can taste the difference. So, I'll consider trying cinnamon in my next batch of (beans-in) chili.

Also, as a vegetarian, we use plant-based meat for our sauces/chili and go heavy on the beans.
 
I never noticed until today that there are actually two kitties in your avatar, @_rae_!

It's like cat-ception. 🙂

They are very cute! Are they littermates?
 
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Yup! We had a trash can kitty who only lived like four months after we adopted him and the shelter we got him from were like “these are yours, you can come meet them but we’ve kind of decided that for you” when we said we were ready to adopt again 😂. They were abandoned in an apartment with their other sibling, but these two were inseparable. Pros: instant buddy, companionship without awful introductory period. Cons: WHACK separation anxiety, sibling spats, somehow we got TWO Velcro cats (you think they’d be more independent since they have each other lol).
 
That's so cute! I love the names!

I am sorry for your loss with the little kitten you lost. 🙁 That's hard.

My two older cats are littermates. They had three sisters. They were found weak and dehydrated in a hot garage during an August heat wave. I don't know where their mom was and frankly I don't want to. All five babies (3 girls, 2 boys) survived and were adopted out. Howard (black and white one) is very lovey. He could go with either Homer (brother) or one of his sisters he was really attached to (Matilda). If I were to get a cat at that point in my life, it would have to be a boy because I had a female cat at home at the time with aggression issues towards other girl cats but not towards boy cats. They are cuddling on my bed across from me as we speak!

I am totally with you with the exact same pros and cons list! Especially with the separation anxiety. Because they don't look that much alike, a coworker jokingly asked if it was possible the shelter lied to me and told me they were siblings to get me to take both and I was like, "NOPE. They are way too attached."
 
I am sorry for your loss with the little kitten you lost. 🙁 That's hard.
We got him as an adult. What we thought was IBD turned into heart failure and some weird immune thing (his body thought he only need 0.6 WBCs, I thought otherwise). He was 3 yrs old, but every vet missed his gallop because the sweet butthead wouldn't stop purring. My favorite quirk about him was he loved his space being clean, so when his IBD flared, he always made it to the litter box, even to puke ❤️. My current idiots puke whenever, wherever. One time Olive looked us dead in the eyes and scooted her butt across our ottoman because she had a little turdlet stuck.

I don't know where their mom was and frankly I don't want to.
Same. We assume they were left behind by previous tenants since they were found behind a locked door.

"NOPE. They are way too attached."
The separation anxiety is so real. Anytime they had to go with me to work, both had to go, otherwise it was a nightmare. Sweet Olive was hospitalized for a foreign body and Green Bean was pacing the house, crying, looking for her. Finally he decided she wasn't there and was so snuggly with us. It was so said. Of course when Olive came home he sniffed her and got smacked because she was pissed and tired and he was like "aight, you're fine, I'll be over here then".

Anyway, the moral of the story is DON'T ask about my cats because I could talk about them all day long. I'm obsessed with them haha.
 
Interesting seminar economics talk. If you thought politics has been more and more polarized you're correct. Markers show the US had not been this politically polarized since the civil war 🙃

It's astounding how the economy is suddenly great when it's someone's chosen political party in power 🤔
 
Alright more experienced ER/GP friends; I have a question.

The ding dong kitty in the back of my photo is Green Bean, my 3 yr old NM DSH, as mentioned above. He has allergies, we think food and environmental as it got better on the novel protein diet. He had a tough time with the transition and got quite constipated due to the fiber difference. We've managed that with miralax seemingly without issue until recently. Someone is still having constipated poops and we thought it was the other cat.

Both have had all of their vaccines and boosters since they were kittens. Olive vomited after a vaccine once and GB had some local swelling at his FVRCP site when he was one or two, otherwise handled them great. Saturday, at 3 am, he got his updated purevax rabies and FeLV vaccines. EVERYTHING on exam was normal. The thermometer came out clean. At 4:15, we heard him in the litter box and he was vocalizing (which is normal for him when he poops, I've had him worked up for FLUTD because it scare the bigeezus out of me when he was younger). He hopped out and I grabbed him to put him up on the bed. His butt touched my arm and I felt something wet, and when I looked my arm was smeared with frank blood. My first thought was "okay, maybe he was straining because he's constipated again. Or he's going into shock. Guess we gotta go find that out". Brought him back to work where his exam was normal and the vet couldn't feel any poop in his colon on palpation, and digital rectal was empty except for a LOT of blood. We couldn't tell if he was still bleeding or if he just had a large amount of blood in his fur, but a few minutes later he was cleaned up acting like nothing happened. No x-rays or bloods because he was acting normal and isn't known for eating things. Metro for 3-5 days and visbiome for the next week.

He has been fine over the weekend and appears to be pooping normally. I even checked the poop from Saturday morning and there was no blood in the litter box. Nothing on the poop that I could see, no bloody clumps of litter, nothing. If I didn't have the record of it from work I almost would have believed it was a fever dream from being awake for 22 hours straight.

Coincidence? Vaccine reaction (w/ the hypersensitivity I'm concerned this could get worse in the future)? Mercury in retrograde? Not necessarily looking for medical advice specifically since he's fine now, more just experience with reactions. I've never seen hematochezia as a standalone reaction, only secondary to anaphylaxis, of which he had none of the other symptoms.
 
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Maybe. Seems a bit of a fast onset though. Can't say I've ever seen this personally.
Same. I feel like onset of something that severe is usually a good couple of hours, and there's usually some amount of other symptom lead up. Maybe this *was* just a terribly time coincidence.

Absolutely to this

Woo Woo Astrology GIF by megan lockhart

(just googled and mercury IS in fact in retrograde right now so I stand by that it's a possible cause)
 
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