Thinking about cancelling USC-Keck interview

[JakeHarley]

Just thought I'd throw this out there and see what kind of response I get:

I have a lot of interviews scheduled, and have already completed some. Interviews are at both MD and DO programs, and I already have an acceptance at a DO program I am interested in (Western U.) I have also had a very successful interview at Albert Einstein, although I won't know the result until mid January.

All this travelling is getting really expensive for me, and I am thinking about cancelling a couple of my upcoming interviews. One of the programs I am considering cancelling at is USC-Keck. My reasoning is the following:

1) Location--it sounds like the type of area I wouldn't enjoy living in for 4 years.

2) Lack of research--they obviously place a huge emphasis on a candidates reasearch background (mine is fairly extensive), yet they don't have much research going on. Seems strange to me.

3) Antagonistic interview--Based on much of the interview feedback, they seem to really grill candidates in a somewhat confrontational way, while not bringing much to the table themselves. I dislike this because to me it signifies a certain culture that I am not attracted to being involved with: very academic, gunner-esque, dehumanized.

4) It sounds as if the curriculum is particularly stressful relative to most medical schools, yet offers no real benefit in terms of performance on the boards.

5) Tuition=very high and increasing by the year.

Anyone have any comments on this? Am I way off base on any of these assumptions? Right on the money?

Thanks for your help...

J

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[Elastase]

Just thought I'd throw this out there and see what kind of response I get:

I have a lot of interviews scheduled, and have already completed some. Interviews are at both MD and DO programs, and I already have an acceptance at a DO program I am interested in (Western U.) I have also had a very successful interview at Albert Einstein, although I won't know the result until mid January.

All this travelling is getting really expensive for me, and I am thinking about cancelling a couple of my upcoming interviews. One of the programs I am considering cancelling at is USC-Keck. My reasoning is the following:

1) Location--it sounds like the type of area I wouldn't enjoy living in for 4 years.

2) Lack of research--they obviously place a huge emphasis on a candidates reasearch background (mine is fairly extensive), yet they don't have much research going on. Seems strange to me.

3) Antagonistic interview--Based on much of the interview feedback, they seem to really grill candidates in a somewhat confrontational way, while not bringing much to the table themselves. I dislike this because to me it signifies a certain culture that I am not attracted to being involved with: very academic, gunner-esque, dehumanized.

4) It sounds as if the curriculum is particularly stressful relative to most medical schools, yet offers no real benefit in terms of performance on the boards.

5) Tuition=very high and increasing by the year.

Anyone have any comments on this? Am I way off base on any of these assumptions? Right on the money?

Thanks for your help...

J

1.) At least for me, this location is perfect for my medical training. Its closely afflicated with LA County, meaning that you will get more hands on experience.

2.) There is definitely research going on. They have available Keck funds, and new buildings being constructed.

Those are the points I can argue for...

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

2) Lack of research--they obviously place a huge emphasis on a candidates reasearch background (mine is fairly extensive), yet they don't have much research going on. Seems strange to me.

5) Tuition=very high and increasing by the year.

Anyone have any comments on this? Am I way off base on any of these assumptions? Right on the money?

Thanks for your help...

J

While Keck is not like UCLA in terms of research, you're kidding yourself if you think Keck doesn't have much research going on. There are plenty of research opportunities, and an outgoing medical student will have no problem getting involved in some.
As for tuition - you're right on with that assesment. Tuition was hiked for this recent school year, and there is no sign that it won't be raised again in the near future.

 

[firebird69guy]

You'll have some great football games to go to.. for a few years at least.


I'm envious of your interview invite. But then again, I am from CA and would like to stay here.

 

[FutureDrKt]

I think that since you have an acceptance from a school you really like, it is ok to discriminate about interviews. If you didn't have any acceptances, I would say take whatever you can get. In your situation, you should give this opportunity to someone else who really wants it.

 

[ablumoon]

Keck is a wonderful school with many research opportunities. The students get matched up with awesome residencies (just look at the figures for derm, optho, etc. for last year). This means that research must be going on- and some good ones too-- just because these types of matches require lots of hard effort and publications. I'll have to emphasize that if you want to do research, just be proactive and go on and do it. There are many, many wonderful doctors at Keck that would love to work with you. I go to undergrad here and have been to the HSC campus many times (and also have friends in the medical school). Research is PLENTY, and USC is a place that is growing a lot--as is Keck. It's not a bad school to go to at all, and in terms of choosing between DO and MD; I'm not sure how you feel about that, but MD is a route that I think most people who are pre-med want to take, and Keck has one of THE BEST training programs in the country for medical school. The doctors are just known to be very apt and confident, simply because they get so much exposure to diseases and patients early on in their education.

The students at Keck work very hard and are living the typical medical school life in the first two years, but I think taht would be expected from almost any place. The second two years are what makes it pretty valuable. LAC--Los Angles County Hospital is an amazing place to get trained. And besides, most stuednts do NOT live in that area near USC. Many students live in Pasadena, which is really nice and quiet, and very clean. It's also only a 10 minute drive or so (without traffic, of course). I'd say reconsider. Dont give up your chance at a school unless you've visited, met the faculty, and gotten an impression for yourself.

 

[CerealBox]

BTW, I think those 3 negative feedbacks were all left by the same person, who for whatever reason, is trying to smear the school. I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out the same person created that web page that they link to in their feedback. If I were you, I wouldn't base too much on those feedbacks.

 

[JakeHarley]

Thanks all for the great responses. I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, but I checked out the US News ranking for research funding...Keck is #32 or something, not bad actually. So, I was definitely misinformed on that. Just to clarify, I am actually not highly interested in doing research anymore, I just personally think that a school that has lots of research going on will generally offer a better education.

In response to the comment on the curriculum, I have to disagree with the idea that it is necessarily like all other schools. While all schools are very demanding, there is actually a lot of variety out there in terms of how the material is taught, how much time students need to put in, etc.

For example, some schools have ranked classes with grades, while others are straight pass/fail for the first two years. That can greatly affect the culture at the school, the way the students interact with eachother, how well students learn the material, etc.

Also, some schools are still teaching in a subject-based way, while others are moving toward a more progressive integrated curriculum. Again, this has effects on learning and school culture.

About cancelling interviews to give other people a shot: I disagree with this reasoning. Schools interview a lot more people than they plan to admit, and they offer acceptances to many more applicants than they will actually seat because they know people are interviewing at multiple programs. I don't believe that going to an interview at a school you are not 100% sold on hurts anyone else's chances of getting in. If you are offered and decline an accpetance, they just offer it to the next person down the list. Its not as if other equally qualified candidates are losing out because you chose to interview.

Anyhow,

Based on some of these replies, I realize that I need to re-examine my assumptions before I decide what to do. Thanks again, you've helped me out a lot!

 

[JakeHarley]

BTW, I think those 3 negative feedbacks were all left by the same person, who for whatever reason, is trying to smear the school. I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out the same person created that web page that they link to in their feedback. If I were you, I wouldn't base too much on those feedbacks.

Hey, are you in Seattle now? Appying to UW? Me too. A little nervous about that interview, its a relatively tough one. If you haven't had it yet, but want to chat about it, PM me. I actually interviewed there several years back and got waitlisted/rejected.

 

[argonana]

In response to the comment on the curriculum, I have to disagree with the idea that it is necessarily like all other schools. While all schools are very demanding, there is actually a lot of variety out there in terms of how the material is taught, how much time students need to put in, etc.

For example, some schools have ranked classes with grades, while others are straight pass/fail for the first two years. That can greatly affect the culture at the school, the way the students interact with eachother, how well students learn the material, etc.

Keck is Pass/Fail.

From what I've read, the academic culture there is rather non-competitive. (Feedback?? Anyone know first-hand?)

 

[ablumoon]

It is P/F, I think there is an Honors option as well. People aren't competitive with each other, but they do give you a **%^ load of work, so they work very hard. It's both PBL and lecture-based learning, so you get an integration of both. People are at Keck a lot, in actual class, so that I think would be a down side to going there.

 

[Party Animal MD]

In terms of board scores, I urge you to go find out about how the recent years have done on the boards. You might be surprised to find out that this year Keck students had the 5th highest Board scores in the Nation; they did EXCEEDINGLY WELL. The scores at Keck were much higher than the averages at UCLA and Yale.

The assumption that a place which has good research will also have good education is a bit flawed. For instance, UCLA has solid research going on, but in recent years, their average board scores (and this will shock most people, but it's true) were the lowest among all California med schools.

Party on....

Just thought I'd throw this out there and see what kind of response I get:

I have a lot of interviews scheduled, and have already completed some. Interviews are at both MD and DO programs, and I already have an acceptance at a DO program I am interested in (Western U.) I have also had a very successful interview at Albert Einstein, although I won't know the result until mid January.

All this travelling is getting really expensive for me, and I am thinking about cancelling a couple of my upcoming interviews. One of the programs I am considering cancelling at is USC-Keck. My reasoning is the following:

1) Location--it sounds like the type of area I wouldn't enjoy living in for 4 years.

2) Lack of research--they obviously place a huge emphasis on a candidates reasearch background (mine is fairly extensive), yet they don't have much research going on. Seems strange to me.

3) Antagonistic interview--Based on much of the interview feedback, they seem to really grill candidates in a somewhat confrontational way, while not bringing much to the table themselves. I dislike this because to me it signifies a certain culture that I am not attracted to being involved with: very academic, gunner-esque, dehumanized.

4) It sounds as if the curriculum is particularly stressful relative to most medical schools, yet offers no real benefit in terms of performance on the boards.

5) Tuition=very high and increasing by the year.

Anyone have any comments on this? Am I way off base on any of these assumptions? Right on the money?

Thanks for your help...

J

 

[argonana]

My interviewer at Vanderbilt suggested that the students there perform so well on the boards because of Vandy's (quasi-) Pass/Fail curriculum. (i.e., they learn how to prioritize better, don't obsess over details, actually learn the material...)

Do you think this is true?

 

[attaboybambeeks]

Just thought I'd throw this out there and see what kind of response I get:

I have a lot of interviews scheduled, and have already completed some. Interviews are at both MD and DO programs, and I already have an acceptance at a DO program I am interested in (Western U.) I have also had a very successful interview at Albert Einstein, although I won't know the result until mid January.

All this travelling is getting really expensive for me, and I am thinking about cancelling a couple of my upcoming interviews. One of the programs I am considering cancelling at is USC-Keck. My reasoning is the following:

1) Location--it sounds like the type of area I wouldn't enjoy living in for 4 years.

2) Lack of research--they obviously place a huge emphasis on a candidates reasearch background (mine is fairly extensive), yet they don't have much research going on. Seems strange to me.

3) Antagonistic interview--Based on much of the interview feedback, they seem to really grill candidates in a somewhat confrontational way, while not bringing much to the table themselves. I dislike this because to me it signifies a certain culture that I am not attracted to being involved with: very academic, gunner-esque, dehumanized.

4) It sounds as if the curriculum is particularly stressful relative to most medical schools, yet offers no real benefit in terms of performance on the boards.

5) Tuition=very high and increasing by the year.

Anyone have any comments on this? Am I way off base on any of these assumptions? Right on the money?

Thanks for your help...

J

quick question: does albert einstein not get back to us till mid january? I figured they would let people know oct 15th for acceptances. Please educate.

thanks

 

[tank you]

if you really dont have your sights set on keck, and you have other interviews at your top choice schools, then you should cancel (keep in mind, this is coming from someone that really wants a keck interview)

 

[JakeHarley]

quick question: does albert einstein not get back to us till mid january? I figured they would let people know oct 15th for acceptances. Please educate.

thanks

I was told no one would hear anything before mid-january, this from the woman at the front desk in their admissions office. I think its because AE is not a rolling admissions school.

 

[shoneek]

Keck is Pass/Fail.

From what I've read, the academic culture there is rather non-competitive. (Feedback?? Anyone know first-hand?)

I'm currently an MSIII at Keck. Years 1 and 2 is STRICTLY P/F. There is "Dean's Recognition" at the end of years 1 and 2 which no one really cares about. THIS YEAR's (class of 07) class scored THE HIGHEST (that's right folks, NUMERO UNO) in the nation on Step 1. That is not a typo. I'm proud to say I contributed to raising the average. We're a happy bunch of smart ******s. Don't cancel, Jake, you'll regret it.

 

[argonana]

I'm currently an MSIII at Keck. Years 1 and 2 is STRICTLY P/F. There is "Dean's Recognition" at the end of years 1 and 2 which no one really cares about. THIS YEAR's (class of 07) class scored THE HIGHEST (that's right folks, NUMERO UNO) in the nation on Step 1. That is not a typo. I'm proud to say I contributed to raising the average. We're a happy bunch of smart ******s. Don't cancel, Jake, you'll regret it.

Wow, that is SO awesome!! Are you happy with Keck overall?? I'm getting really excited about this interview!!

 

[Mutt]

I'm currently an MSIII at Keck. Years 1 and 2 is STRICTLY P/F. There is "Dean's Recognition" at the end of years 1 and 2 which no one really cares about. THIS YEAR's (class of 07) class scored THE HIGHEST (that's right folks, NUMERO UNO) in the nation on Step 1. That is not a typo. I'm proud to say I contributed to raising the average. We're a happy bunch of smart ******s. Don't cancel, Jake, you'll regret it.

To clarify, did Keck score the highest average as a class or someone in the class got the highest score on their Step I?

I'm sure it's the former, but can you point to some proof?

 

[humuhumu]

In terms of board scores, I urge you to go find out about how the recent years have done on the boards. You might be surprised to find out that this year Keck students had the 5th highest Board scores in the Nation; they did EXCEEDINGLY WELL. The scores at Keck were much higher than the averages at UCLA and Yale.

Where on earth do you find out Step 1 rankings by school? Seems like information on Board scores is hard to find.

 

[waterlily]

take interview feedback with a grain of salt. I went to my keck interview with a really negative outlook too from the interview feedback that I read. However, I actually liked the school a lot more than I expected. The location is actually not that bad as people make it out to be. And my interviews totally were not confrontational at all. All the interviewees my day were also saying that their's were really relaxed. But yeah I agree that this is an extremely expensive process, and if you think you have a solid acceptance so far that you would prefer over Keck anyways, then it wouldn't be a big deal if you cancelled or not.

 

[Faust]

Cancel your interview. Forget about Keck. Use that money to buy yourself a big turkey. Make some room for us august folks.

 

[exmike]

Where on earth do you find out Step 1 rankings by school? Seems like information on Board scores is hard to find.

I would ignore people that hoot and holler about step 1s

Schools tend to keep step 1 scores to themselves. The NBME keeps them secret for a reason. They dont want to turn schools into USMLE ******. Schools can easily teach for the boards, but everyone knows that teaching for the boards does not equal teaching for the wards.

Many years back there was this huge fiasco at University of Hawaii where they geared their curriculum specifically towards Step 1. UH ended up having the highest board scores of any med school. However, as the story goes, once these students entered the wards, they were woefully deficient in clincal knowledge and skills and UH has since revamped their curriculum. Once you are in med school you will be able to tell when something you learn in school is clinically and realistically relevant, and when something is step 1 relevant.

Another point is that board scores are often a reflection of the ability to take standardized tests. So did that school teach really well? or was it full of good standardized test takers. I certainly wouldnt use a schools average Step 1 as a measure of how good it is.

Step 1's regardless, USC is a great school. I did research at their children's hospital this summer. I would, however, choose ucla over usc. And if I didnt like LA, I wouldnt go at all if i had personally preferable alternatives.

 

[Mutt]

So is it still just a rumor or did Keck do the best in the nation on Step 1?

 

[exmike]

So is it still just a rumor or did Keck do the best in the nation on Step 1?

its a rumor (though it may be true, im sure keck has among the higher averages). the only way we would know is if the nbme released every schools Step 1 score (which they dont). Something tells me a school like wustl or duke would have the highest step1.

 

[lakersfan]

I think we had the 5th highest USMLE average this year (not number 1 but I could be wrong).

I wouldn't cancel the interview. At least take the opportunity to see what an amazing hospital LAC+USC medical center is. Also, our class averaged a 33.1 on the MCAT this year (highest in Kecks history)...we have a bunch of braniacs which is awesome. Another huge bonus is first 2 years are strictyl P/NP.

 

[discus]

I think we had the 5th highest USMLE average this year (not number 1 but I could be wrong).

I wouldn't cancel the interview. At least take the opportunity to see what an amazing hospital LAC+USC medical center is. Also, our class averaged a 33.1 on the MCAT this year (highest in Kecks history)...we have a bunch of braniacs which is awesome. Another huge bonus is first 2 years are strictyl P/NP.

Gosh, what I wouldn't give for an acceptance to Keck...

 

[JakeHarley]

I think we had the 5th highest USMLE average this year (not number 1 but I could be wrong).

I wouldn't cancel the interview. At least take the opportunity to see what an amazing hospital LAC+USC medical center is. Also, our class averaged a 33.1 on the MCAT this year (highest in Kecks history)...we have a bunch of braniacs which is awesome. Another huge bonus is first 2 years are strictyl P/NP.

Just as an update...

I've had many of my false assumptions cleared up by this thread, and am looking forward to my interview at Keck. Thanks all for the input!

 

[princessd3]

I think that since you have an acceptance from a school you really like, it is ok to discriminate about interviews. If you didn't have any acceptances, I would say take whatever you can get. In your situation, you should give this opportunity to someone else who really wants it.

I agree, if you don't see yourself going there. Give it to someone else.

 

[JakeHarley]

I agree, if you don't see yourself going there. Give it to someone else.

Yes, yes, princess. See my post above.

Now, can we let this thread die?