Third time applicant: Apply in late August 2020 or June 2021?

[jordij94]

I applied previously in 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 as a CA ORM with a 3.9 / 513 /3000 hours scribing / 200 hours research / 1000 hours volunteering / 1000 hours leadership. Over the past two cycles, I had 2 IIs -> 2 WL and 4 IIs -> 3 WL.

I just received my new MCAT score of 520 and am trying to balance the decision of whether applying this late (August/Sept) as a third time applicant is shooting myself in the foot (but I definitely don't want to take an extra gap year if I don't have to!)? I already have my primary verified at one throwaway school and completely rewrote my PS. I am having my letter writers update their letters from 2018 but I won't have ALL my letters until like mid Sept unless I use letters dated from 2019.

Some changes to my application since last cycle: +900 hours clinical research (no LOR tho), + 200 hours tutoring, +new MCAT score, + new biochem course completed (w LOR in Sept). Also how would one go about creating a school list with a 513/520? Should I even bother applying to the 520 range schools I've never applied to since I'm a reapplicant and a retaker? Thank you in advance!!

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[Darrow O'Lykos]

Why do you feel your application hasn't garnered an acceptance thus far? Has it been you haven't applied to the right schools previously? How did you feel at each of your interviews? 6 interview invites over 2 cycles is far more than what most people get, and your academics were good with a 3.9/513. It may have just been bad luck being placed on 5 different waitlists, but the schools which you applied to may explain that.

Improving your MCAT from a 513 to a 520 is impressive, and you should go ahead and apply this cycle. However, I just want to be the devil's advocate here and help you ensure there isn't some sort of red flag or glaring problem with the rest of your application (even if the only problem is just the list of schools to which you applied).

 

[Faha]

Where were you previous interviews ?

 

[jordij94]

Why do you feel your application hasn't garnered an acceptance thus far? Has it been you haven't applied to the right schools previously? How did you feel at each of your interviews? 6 interview invites over 2 cycles is far more than what most people get, and your academics were good with a 3.9/513. It may have just been bad luck being placed on 5 different waitlists, but the schools which you applied to may explain that.

Improving your MCAT from a 513 to a 520 is impressive, and you should go ahead and apply this cycle. However, I just want to be the devil's advocate here and help you ensure there isn't some sort of red flag or glaring problem with the rest of your application (even if the only problem is just the list of schools to which you applied).

Thank you for the response! I am not sure why I haven't garnered an acceptance yet; I have tried asking every school I interviewed at but none provide feedback. A few OOS schools I was rejected from pre-II told me to retake the MCAT and rewrite my essays. I felt pretty good at each of my interviews and prepared a lot for them (practiced with friends/family, researched the school, and did 4 mock interviews with a retired adcom); however my track record with 6 IIs -> 5 WLs makes me second guess my interview abilities. The only potential red flags I can think of are (1) I didn't have an explicit shadowing entry on AMCAS the last two cycles bc I thought scribing and mentioning shadowing as a hospital volunteer would suffice; I added 20 hours shadowing this year and separated out 50 hours of hospital volunteering into a shadowing category for this cycle. Also, (2) a few months ago I was devastated to learn one of the prof/PI LORs I've sent to every single school for the past two years used the wrong name in half the letter. I'm not sure how this would affect my application, especially post interview, but I am currently enrolled in a course that ends Sep 4 to replace this letter.

My school list the past two cycles has been:
2018-2019: UCI, UCR, UCLA, UCSD, UCSF, Drexel, NYMC, Rosalind Franklin, George Washington, Georgetown, Loyola, Tufts, Jefferson, Rush, U of A Tucson, U of A Phoenix, SUNY Downstate, Toledo, U of Miami, Rochester, USC, Ohio State, Dartmouth, Hofstra, Einstein, Mount Sinai, Michigan, Pitt, Yale, Colorado, UCD

2019-2020: UCI, UCR, UCLA, UCSD, UCSF, UCD, NYMC, Rosalind Franklin, George Washington, Georgetown, Loyola, Tufts, Jefferson, Rush, U of A Tucson, U of A Phoenix, USC, Hofstra, Colorado, EVMS, VCU, Wayne State, Tulane, NOVA MD, Penn State, U Vermont, Rutgers NJMS, Saint Louis, Albany, Hackensack Meridian, Indiana University, Kaiser, Temple, NYU-LI
DO Schools: PCOM, KCU

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

The only potential red flags I can think of are (1) I didn't have an explicit shadowing entry on AMCAS the last two cycles bc I thought scribing and mentioning shadowing as a hospital volunteer would suffice; I added 20 hours shadowing this year and separated out 50 hours of hospital volunteering into a shadowing category for this cycle.

Mmm, I don't think this was the issue, as you did indeed gain several invitations to interview. However, so long as you categorize your activities according to the AMCAS application handbook, you'll be fine. Sounds like you have that down.

Also, (2) a few months ago I was devastated to learn one of the prof/PI LORs I've sent to every single school for the past two years used the wrong name in half the letter. I'm not sure how this would affect my application, especially post interview, but I am currently enrolled in a course that ends Sep 4 to replace this letter.

That's extremely ****ty of that author to do make that mistake. Although I understand that people make mistakes, it pretty much hurts that letter's ability to help be a great reference. I know it is common for adcoms to go back and review LORs post-interview when making their deliberations regarding applicants (and oftentimes will reach out to the authors for more questions about an applicant). I'm not saying that's the smoking gun in what was wrong (if anything) about your application, but replacing that with a better letter will only help.

My school list the past two cycles has been:
2018-2019: UCI, UCR, UCLA, UCSD, UCSF, Drexel, NYMC, Rosalind Franklin, George Washington, Georgetown, Loyola, Tufts, Jefferson, Rush, U of A Tucson, U of A Phoenix, SUNY Downstate, Toledo, U of Miami, Rochester, USC, Ohio State, Dartmouth, Hofstra, Einstein, Mount Sinai, Michigan, Pitt, Yale, Colorado, UCD

2019-2020: UCI, UCR, UCLA, UCSD, UCSF, UCD, NYMC, Rosalind Franklin, George Washington, Georgetown, Loyola, Tufts, Jefferson, Rush, U of A Tucson, U of A Phoenix, USC, Hofstra, Colorado, EVMS, VCU, Wayne State, Tulane, NOVA MD, Penn State, U Vermont, Rutgers NJMS, Saint Louis, Albany, Hackensack Meridian, Indiana University, Kaiser, Temple, NYU-LI
DO Schools: PCOM, KCU

Unless you're from the Inland Empire, UCR is going to be an app fee donation.

Keep applying to your UC schools, as well as Kaiser, USC, and CUSM. Although I am surprised you didn't get more interviews from some of the OOS schools on your lists, some of them do receive 10k+ applications (Loyola, GW, Tulane, etc.). You might also be getting yield protected at schools like Wayne State, Rutgers, Loyola, Rosalind Franklin.

Some of the schools you've applied to are more mission-focused than others (EVMS, Georgetown, NYU-LI). Although you have a lot of volunteer hours, certain schools would rather see a lot in a certain activity you're passionately involved in for a long time, rather than doing a lot of different volunteer activities. I can't tell if that's the case with you, but just keep that in mind.

Your 520 MCAT will help open more doors for you in California, as well as at other top and mid tier schools. Without a research LOR and/or multiple publications, avoid applying to the research powerhouses (i.e.: Harvard, Cornell, etc.).

I normally advise non-Texas residents from applying anywhere in Texas, but you could consider adding Baylor. They're not quite up to the 90% Texas resident rule, but they're close. However, you could be in consideration for an interview there.

 

[jordij94]

Your 520 MCAT will help open more doors for you in California, as well as at other top and mid tier schools. Without a research LOR and/or multiple publications, avoid applying to the research powerhouses (i.e.: Harvard, Cornell, etc.).

Thank you so much for the detailed response, you hit the nail on the head about the LOR situation; I think I will always wonder if these two extra years of applying could have been avoided with just 5 minutes of that professor's time proofreading haha. Would you recommend taking an extra year to get research experience/publications then? I was thinking of either doing Americorps or full-time research + weekend volunteering to build up my application if I apply next cycle. I will be adding 900 hours of clinical research experience from this past year at a CRO but it was neither a positive nor ethical experience and I'd prefer to not talk about it as much during interviews..

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

Thank you so much for the detailed response, you hit the nail on the head about the LOR situation; I think I will always wonder if these two extra years of applying could have been avoided with just 5 minutes of that professor's time proofreading haha. Would you recommend taking an extra year to get research experience/publications then? I was thinking of either doing Americorps or full-time research + weekend volunteering to build up my application if I apply next cycle. I will be adding 900 hours of clinical research experience from this past year at a CRO but it was neither a positive nor ethical experience and I'd prefer to not talk about it as much during interviews..

I get ya. I worked at a CRO my 1st year out of college.

You should apply this cycle. I don't know if something as big AmeriCorps would be the right call for you (and IIRC, that process to even get set up with them takes some time). One kernel of wisdom I learned from my multiple years applying was that adcoms "can only judge you as an applicant based on what you have done, not based on what you say you're going to do". Even if you started AmeriCorps today, it wouldn't help you this application cycle.

I think you're a strong applicant this cycle and shouldn't need to make that drastic of a change to your life unless you just don't know what you're going to do this upcoming year otherwise . I would think working whatever job you are currently along with volunteering a substantial amount of your free time this upcoming year to a cause you're passionate about/interested in, that would serve you well enough for next cycle (which you shouldn't even need anyway).

 

[Faha]

I suggest these MD schools with your new MCAT of 520:
The UCs (except UC Riverside if you are not from that region)
USC Keck
Kaiser
California University
California Northstate
Arizona-Phoenix
TCU-UNT
Miami
USF Morsani
Tulane
Vanderbilt
Emory
Duke
U Virginia
Georgetown
Jefferson
Pittsburgh
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
NYU
Rochester
Vermont
Dartmouth
Boston University
Tufts
Case Western
Ohio State
Cincinnati
Western Michigan
U Michigan
Indiana
U Illinois
Iowa
St. Louis
Mayo (both schools)
Apply this month and submit all your secondaries by September

 

[jordij94]

I suggest these MD schools with your new MCAT of 520:
The UCs (except UC Riverside if you are not from that region)
USC Keck
Kaiser
California University
California Northstate
Arizona-Phoenix
TCU-UNT
Miami
USF Morsani
Tulane
Vanderbilt
Emory
Duke
U Virginia
Georgetown
Jefferson
Pittsburgh
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
NYU
Rochester
Vermont
Dartmouth
Boston University
Tufts
Case Western
Ohio State
Cincinnati
Western Michigan
U Michigan
Indiana
U Illinois
Iowa
St. Louis
Mayo (both schools)
Apply this month and submit all your secondaries by September

Thank you so much for the school list, Faha. Would you still recommend I apply to schools a third time that never interviewed me, like Jefferson, Hofstra, and Tufts?

 

[Faha]

Thank you so much for the school list, Faha. Would you still recommend I apply to schools a third time that never interviewed me, like Jefferson, Hofstra, and Tufts?

Yes, your 520 MCAT may attract attention at schools you previously applied to.

 

[LunaOri]

You might add UMass to the list. They are pretty OOS friendly, and your stats will impress them.

 

[jordij94]

You might add UMass to the list. They are pretty OOS friendly, and your stats will impress them.

Thanks Luna, I'll look into Mass! I actually decided to wait until next year to reapply just so I can put my strongest app forward and have all my loose ends tied (LORs, secondaries, etc.) on day 1. Thank you everyone for the advice!