Third time applying...chances??...time to switch career path? low gpa...good DAT

[dental815]

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So this will be my third time applying (first time I didn't apply until october, second time I only applied to 5 schools because I was going to enroll in a masters program)... and if I don't get in this time I think it may be time for me to change career paths which at 23 is a very hard decision to make. I'm not sure what else I can do for my application as I'm running out of time. I was really immature during my undergrad years, took my education for granted and didn't perform anywhere near my potential. I've spent the last couple years trying to make up for it but at this point I'm not sure how much more I can do and if I don't get in this cycle I think I may have to choose a new career path. I really don't want to do that as I really see dentistry as THE perfect career for me... but I may have no choice 🙁

I have a 3.1 undergrad gpa and a 3.0 sgpa and a 2.85 BCP. I have a 22AA, 23TS, 20PAT along with a 25RC DAT on my first try in 2009. I have two 0.0s in Orgo II because I didn't take the finals twice (I wanted to retake the class but couldn't unless I "fail" the class.... so I failed on purpose so I could retake it but didn't know at the time all the grades factor into the GPA and not just the latest grade... stupid I know...). I did end up getting a 4.0 and a 23 on the Orgo part of the DAT and if that means anything at all. I've also taken practically every upper level science course (although I didn't ace them all obviously).

This year I did a 1.5 year masters program and finished it in a year with a 3.9. I took 3 dental school courses with the first years: physiology, biochemistry, and immunology (which together took up 12 of the 30 credits) and got/will be getting As in all 3. I have about 100 hours of shadowing, 60 hours of community service, and about 100 hours of research involving dental biofilms.

What do you think my chances are and should I take this gap year off and see how it goes or do a post bac/ another masters during this time? I'm thinking of applying to around 25 schools as a last ditch effort but that's going to be around $4,000... would that be overkill? I'm also debating on whether I should retake the DAT as that's the only cheap thing I can really improve upon at this point and I'm pretty sure I can do better in all sections but the RC (I'll have to retake anyways if I don't get in this cycle as it will expire since I took it in 2009). I also can't apply until early July because of numerous reasons which I won't go into... will that dramatically hurt my chances? If I don't get in what else can I do to realistically improve my chances or should I just move on? Sorry for all the questions and any advice or criticism is welcomed.

 

[doc toothache]

Doing a post bac after an MS makes about as much sense as getting an MS after a Ph.D; speaking of which, maybe a Ph.D. would be a better idea than a second MS. Why not talk to some dean of the schools you are most interested and see what they say. Retaking a DAT after setting a pretty high bar is going to be more than a challenge.

 

[Philippines03j]

It is not that DAT that is keeping you out of dental school. It also looks like you have done what you could (in the last year) to show that you are academically capable of passing dental school courses ... There is more to the application than this.

Personal Statement
volunteering
Shadowing
Other dental experience
Extracurricular activities
reasons for wanting to become a dentist
reasons for choosing schools to apply to

Make sure everything else is solid and that is all you can do. If you are feeling desparate then applying to 25 schools if fine as long as you aren't worried about spending the money (which you will do plenty of when you get into dental school). choos your schools wisely👍

 

[4thMolar]

It wouldn't make any sense to take more post-bacc courses or opt for a second masters at this point. You did really well in your Masters program and have a solid DAT score as. Applying to 25 schools is a bit overkill in my opinion, but applying to 10-15 should give you a good chance with your recent coursework. Your chances will definitely improve this cycle, even with a July submission.

 

[dentalWorks]

So this will be my third time applying (first time I didn't apply until october, second time I only applied to 5 schools because I was going to enroll in a masters program)... and if I don't get in this time I think it may be time for me to change career paths which at 23 is a very hard decision to make. I'm not sure what else I can do for my application as I'm running out of time and money. I was really immature during my undergrad years, took my education for granted and didn't perform anywhere near my potential. I've spent the last couple years trying to make up for it but at this point I'm not sure how much more I can do and if I don't get in this cycle I think I may have to choose a new career path. I really don't want to do that as I really see dentistry as THE perfect career for me... but I may have no choice 🙁

I have a 3.1 undergrad gpa and a 3.0 sgpa and a 2.85 BCP. I have a 22AA, 23TS, 20PAT along with a 25RC DAT on my first try in 2009. I have two 0.0s in Orgo II because I didn't take the finals twice (I wanted to retake the class but couldn't unless I "fail" the class.... so I failed on purpose so I could retake it but didn't know at the time all the grades factor into the GPA and not just the latest grade... stupid I know...). I did end up getting a 4.0 and a 23 on the Orgo part of the DAT and if that means anything at all. I've also taken practically every upper level science course (although I didn't ace them all obviously).

This year I did a 1.5 year masters program and finished it in a year with a 3.9. I took 3 dental school courses with the first years: physiology, biochemistry, and immunology (which together took up 12 of the 30 credits) and got/will be getting As in all 3. I have about 100 hours of shadowing, 60 hours of community service, and about 100 hours of research involving dental biofilms.

What do you think my chances are and should I take this gap year off and see how it goes or do a post bac/ another masters during this time? I'm thinking of applying to around 25 schools as a last ditch effort but that's going to be around $4,000... would that be overkill? I'm also debating on whether I should retake the DAT as that's the only cheap thing I can really improve upon at this point and I'm pretty sure I can do better in all sections but the RC (I'll have to retake anyways if I don't get in this cycle as it will expire since I took it in 2009). I also can't apply until early July because of numerous reasons which I won't go into... will that dramatically hurt my chances? If I don't get in what else can I do to realistically improve my chances or should I just move on? Sorry for all the questions and any advice or criticism is welcomed.

I have good news for you:

The first 2 cycles you applied, you didn't do it right, either you applied without post-bacc or masters (first time) or you applied to too little number of schools (2nd try)..... The 25 your picking this cycle SHOULD fix this problem

You said you were immature, your old grades can certainly attest to that, but the "new you" is a different person. You've done superb on the masters. There shouldn't be any about your ability, work ethic, or determination to complete this degree....

I really believe this cycle will be the one. By the way, the 25 schools will cost you $4000 (just addsas + 2ndary fees). This doesn't even include airfare prices and hotels.... So manage your finances accordingly.

I'd apply to columbia for sure, they seem to favor high DAT over low GPA. Also, U of Michigan + detroit mercy have a reputation of looking at most recent course works when evaluating applicants with low GPAs.

 

[dental815]

Doing a post bac after an MS makes about as much sense as getting an MS after a Ph.D; speaking of which, maybe a Ph.D. would be a better idea than a second MS. Why not talk to some dean of the schools you are most interested and see what they say. Retaking a DAT after setting a pretty high bar is going to be more than a challenge.

I would do the post bac only because it raises the undergrad GPA which I assume is what is keeping me from getting interviews. As for the PhD... I don't think I will go that route as the time commitment for that is just way too much. Maybe I will revisit that suggestion this time next year as I really want to do dentistry... but I realistically can't see myself pursuing a PhD just to gain entry into dental school. I will send out emails and call the deans of the schools I applied to this year and ask for their advice and suggestions though, thanks for the suggestion.

It is not that DAT that is keeping you out of dental school. It also looks like you have done what you could (in the last year) to show that you are academically capable of passing dental school courses ... There is more to the application than this.

If I don't receive any interviews this cycle after applying to 20+ schools, would it be safe to say that the fundamental flaw in my application lies elsewhere from my academic coursework? I think everything else is decent... not eye popping but I feelits okay... but I may be wrong. I've done a lot of research and know exactly which schools out there to apply to (all 25ish total schools that are either OOS friendly, masters friendly, DAT friendly, GPA forgiving, etc.). I just hope that there is at least one school out there willing to give me a chance at an interview based on my performance in my masters program and my DAT score (I just hope they notice that these dental school courses I took are dental school courses).

 

[JustwantDDS]

Why not apply this cycle...in June, right when it opens up
You seem to have everything set- score, masters with a high gpa...research!
there really isnt a reason that you shouldnt get in!

 

[Maygyver]

Why not apply this cycle...in June, right when it opens up
You seem to have everything set- score, masters with a high gpa...research!
there really isnt a reason that you shouldnt get in!

Except for the pretty foul undergrad GPA.


Why not call schools up and ask for opinions? You will get a lot more information from them. You probably should have called them when you got rejected and then asked what you could do to better your chances.

 

[7 Iron]

I think you mainly didn't get in because you didn't play the admissions game right. First time-way too late (and poor undergrad GPA). Second time-too few schools. On top of that you didn't have your master's completed yet.

The next cycle opens in about two weeks--have your application ready. Your DAT and master's GPA are great. These will help you a lot. Don't retake the DAT. Just pick your schools wisely (I agree 25 is too many in my opinion...) and apply early!

 

[glo1984]

As others have stated, applying right when this new cycle opens is clearly appropriate. I honestly think that with your current stats, you should get a few interviews as long as you apply to 20+ schools. From there, you need to look like you have a future in dentistry. They need to know you are a leader and can take the pressure. Make sure your ability to converse is perfected.

You made a few mistakes in the past but who hasn't. You'll come out ahead... Just wait till next dec-mar! You'll be back here embracing your acceptance! Good luck!

 

[dental815]

Thanks for the responses guys, I emailed a couple of the schools I got rejected from and I'm waiting for their responses. Well the new cycle opens up today... I've gotten my list of all the schools I have a realistic shot at getting in to... and I'm probably going to end up applying to all 29 of them. Are there any on this list that would just be a total waste of money or any I don't have on here that I should??? I'm not too familiar with the newer schools either.


Columbia
Michigan
UoP
UMDNJ
ASDOH
Midwestern
USC
Western
Connecticut
Howard
Nova
SIU
Indiana
Louisville
Maryland
BU
Tufts
Mercy
Minnesota
Creighton
UNLV
NYU
Buffalo
Ohio State
Penn (Maybe???)
Temple
Pittsburgh
VCU
Marquette

 

[RCLEE]

I suggest that you avoid applying to State University such as UNLV since those schools are required to accept 50% in state residents. There should be statistics somewhere on this forum. Also, Avoid schools in Texas since almost all of those who got accepted are Texans.

Good Luck this year and keep us updated!

 

[Pennywisdom]

State of residence?

 

[dental815]

I suggest that you avoid applying to State University such as UNLV since those schools are required to accept 50% in state residents. There should be statistics somewhere on this forum. Also, Avoid schools in Texas since almost all of those who got accepted are Texans.

Good Luck this year and keep us updated!

I actually like UNLV, it was one of the few I already applied to. I don't think all state schools should be avoided because they accept more instate applicants. I know schools like Michigan and Maryland accept only like 60% instate and a relatively large 40% OSS. Of course there are some like Georgia and the Texas ones that barely accepts anyone from OOS but I'm pretty sure I don't have any of those in my list.

 

[RCLEE]

I don't like UNLV. The humidity level is just too low! I got a bloody nose every morning last summer that I visited Vegas for a week at my buddy's house.

Anyway, I spoke with a few students at UNLV last week and found out that it's great to be the NV residents. I was told that about half of those who applied got accepted last year. So, 1000+ OOS applicants had to compete for the 40 remaining seats. Whatever the school wanted to raise (GPA/DAT) they chose the top students.

GL though, I don't know why you like UNLV. It's a new school so a lot of students aren't happy with it since the school doesn't know what it's doing that's what I was told by the students.

 

[rp37]

=

 

[DividedByZero]

Thanks for the responses guys, I emailed a couple of the schools I got rejected from and I'm waiting for their responses. Well the new cycle opens up today... I've gotten my list of all the schools I have a realistic shot at getting in to... and I'm probably going to end up applying to all 29 of them. Are there any on this list that would just be a total waste of money or any I don't have on here that I should??? I'm not too familiar with the newer schools either.


Columbia
Michigan
UoP
UMDNJ
ASDOH
Midwestern
USC
Western
Connecticut
Howard
Nova
SIU
Indiana
Louisville
Maryland
BU
Tufts
Mercy
Minnesota
Creighton
UNLV
NYU
Buffalo
Ohio State
Penn (Maybe???)
Temple
Pittsburgh
VCU
Marquette

I would axe out UConn, SIU, Minnesota, Ohio State, UNLV, and Marquettte as they are all OOS unfriendly (unless one of those are your state school)

I would also add USN, Both Midwesterns (AZ and IL), LECOM, and WesternU.

Good luck!

 

[lnngu]

I don't like UNLV. The humidity level is just too low! I got a bloody nose every morning last summer that I visited Vegas for a week at my buddy's house.

Anyway, I spoke with a few students at UNLV last week and found out that it's great to be the NV residents. I was told that about half of those who applied got accepted last year. So, 1000+ OOS applicants had to compete for the 40 remaining seats. Whatever the school wanted to raise (GPA/DAT) they chose the top students.

GL though, I don't know why you like UNLV. It's a new school so a lot of students aren't happy with it since the school doesn't know what it's doing that's what I was told by the students.

Well, I think most places are dry compared to Houston, hehe.

But going back to the OP's questions: My numbers and situation weren't too different from yours. Quick impressions, looking at your list: Ohio state probably won't give you the time of the day. I'm not sure if Columbia and Penn are within reach either. Nova seems to really like undergrad GPA and I'm not sure you'll pass their cut-off. MWU probably will interview you, but they only take 1/6 from that list. That GPA will hold you back even post interview. USC disliked me so much they felt the need to send me two rejection letters, last year. Western U will invite you to their podiatry program.
UoP, Indiana, UDM and Buffalo are all excellent choices.

Like DW, I think you have a good shot this year. You've done everything you could to make yourself a worthy applicant. Best of luck.