Third year, thinking about quitting

[Mad Jack]

The work load is easier though things like waiting for match day and having no idea what time zone you're going to be living in a few months from now because of a decision that's completely out of your hands isn't fun.

Only applying close to home should be able to negate at least half of that stress, no?

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[WingedOx]

Only applying close to home should be able to negate at least half of that stress, no?

Med school wasn't "close to home" for me so I didn't really have that option.

 

[Mad Jack]

Med school wasn't "close to home" for me so I didn't really have that option.

Ah. Yeah, I'm within 3 hours of home. Hoping that by applying to less competitive places near home during fourth year I should be fine in regard to where I'm rotating to for auditions/sub-Is.

 

[22031 Alum]

The work load is easier though things like waiting for match day and having no idea what time zone you're going to be living in a few months from now because of a decision that's completely out of your hands isn't fun.

I'm pretty sure I used that exact phrase to explain why the match was sooooo exciting!!

Edit: I was single, far from home and not trying to go back at that time.

 

[W19]

The work load is easier though things like waiting for match day and having no idea what time zone you're going to be living in a few months from now because of a decision that's completely out of your hands isn't fun.

I know, but it probably won't be worst than med school--psychiatry here!

 

[zeppelinpage4]

I dropped out in MS1 and went back to my old ****ty manual labor job. It miserable but it's a lot less miserable than med school was. I can only imagine how much worse it gets in 3rd/4th year, or residency.

According to some MS4, 3rd and 4th year at my school is a breeze except for surgery/IM rotations...

Same at my school. Several of my friends, including myself much prefer 3rd year to MS1/MS2.
3rd year is tough, and there are days I question why I'm putting myself through this...but all in all, I much prefer MS3 and never want to go back to MS1/MS2 ever again.

 

[Mad Jack]

Same at my school. Several of my friends, including myself much prefer 3rd year to MS1/MS2.
3rd year is tough, and there are days I question why I'm putting myself through this...but all in all, I much prefer MS3 and never want to go back to MS1/MS2 ever again.

How many hours are you putting in on average on surg and med?

 

[zeppelinpage4]

How many hours are you putting in on average on surg and med?

Medicine was usually 7am-5pm, with lectures during our lunch hour. A few days I got out by 3.

Surgery was more sporadic. Arrived every day by 4/4:30am, rounded till 7am.
After 7am, the day could vary a lot. If I only had one case and no lectures or meetings. I could chill in the library and sleep/study/eat till my case, scrub into that case and go home after.
If I had lectures, afternoon rounds, and cases with my preceptor, then I could be in the hospital till sign out at 6pm. On a few rare days I'd stay till 10pm if I had multiples cases, or if a case went late.
All in all, our surgery clerkship is comparatively chill I believe.

I almost never had to do call or come in on weekends. They're known for treating third years really well at my program.

Ob/gyn is brutal though, I haven't had it yet, but I hear the hours are roughest on that...as well as the personalities.

 

[Mad Jack]

Medicine was usually 7am-5pm, with lectures during our lunch hour. A few days I got out by 3.

Surgery was more sporadic. Arrived every day by 4/4:30am, rounded till 7am.
After 7am, the day could vary a lot. If I only had one case and no lectures or meetings. I could chill in the library and sleep/study/eat till my case, scrub into that case and go home after.
If I had lectures, afternoon rounds, and cases with my preceptor, then I could be in the hospital till sign out at 6pm. On a few rare days I'd stay till 10pm if I had multiples cases, or if a case went late.
All in all, our surgery clerkship is comparatively chill I believe.

I almost never had to do call or come in on weekends. They're known for treating third years really well at my program.

Ob/gyn is brutal though, I haven't had it yet, but I hear the hours are roughest on that...as well as the personalities.

Yeah, we've got pretty much zero call during third year at the site I'm looking at, aside from Ob/Gyn. Hours are about the same, roughly 60-65/week on average from what I've heard.

 

[W19]

@zeppelinpage4 It's about 40 hrs at my school for most rotations except IM/surgery which are 50+

 

[Psai]

@zeppelinpage4 It's about 40 hrs at my school for most rotations except IM/surgery which are 50+

lol "50+"
man sounds really brutal man

 

[W19]

lol "50+"
man sounds really brutal man

NOOOOOOOO! People seem to be doing 60+ based on what I have read in SDN.

 

[charmiedermie]

@zeppelinpage4 It's about 40 hrs at my school for most rotations except IM/surgery which are 50+

40 hours even on OB-Gyn??? 40-50 hours is still very low.

 

[FindMeOnTheLinks]

NOOOOOOOO! People seem to be doing 60+ based on what I have read in SDN.

lol he was being sarcastic

 

[Psai]

NOOOOOOOO! People seem to be doing 60+ based on what I have read in SDN.

No wonder you think podiatry residency is rigorous lol

 

[Dral]

Jeez, my surg rotation was 4:30am until 9 or 10pm 6 days a week.

 

[W19]

40 hours even on OB-Gyn??? 40-50 hours is still very low.

OB is 50 from what I heard... I am going to hate 3rd year.

 

[W19]

Jeez, my surg rotation was 4:30am until 9 or 10pm 6 days a week.

This is crazy! Are these MS4 at my school lying? Two people told me the same thing... Plan B PA school is still on!

 

[W19]

No wonder you think podiatry residency is rigorous lol

All rotations should be like psych...

 

[Mad Jack]

Jeez, my surg rotation was 4:30am until 9 or 10pm 6 days a week.

Sucked to be you. I mean, unless you liked surgery I guess. I picked one of the least surgically-oriented sites specifically because I have less than zero interest in it. I'd rather not match than complete a surgical residency.

 

[Señor S]

http://www.postdocjobs.com/jobs/jobs2.php?subcatid=190&catid=2

Just clicking through here, it seems that a fair number of post-doc positions are open to MDs, and certainly your lab experience would be a plus on top of that. You could finish out third year, apply to whatever speciality you like the most (or hate the least) and the simultaneously look for non-clinical positions. I just can't see the purpose in quitting now unless you absolutely cannot stand it. You're just a few rotations and one more Step exam away from a fairly impressive credential into which you've already put huge amounts of time and money. And you still may find something you like or people you can tolerate, especially as you get some more experience and don't feel quite as lost and hopeless anymore.

 

[zeppelinpage4]

Sucked to be you. I mean, unless you liked surgery I guess. I picked one of the least surgically-oriented sites specifically because I have less than zero interest in it. I'd rather not match than complete a surgical residency.

Likewise, I'm most likely not doing surgery, so I was happy with the fewer hours on my clerkship...I just needed to get by and say I did it.

Goes to show, third year can vary drastically by program and site.

 

[Dral]

Sucked to be you. I mean, unless you liked surgery I guess. I picked one of the least surgically-oriented sites specifically because I have less than zero interest in it. I'd rather not match than complete a surgical residency.

I ended up at a VA. We were all bumped up a notch so to speak. The 3rd years were basically acting like the interns.

It sucked.

 

[alpinism]

Medicine was usually 7am-5pm, with lectures during our lunch hour. A few days I got out by 3.

Surgery was more sporadic. Arrived every day by 4/4:30am, rounded till 7am.
After 7am, the day could vary a lot. If I only had one case and no lectures or meetings. I could chill in the library and sleep/study/eat till my case, scrub into that case and go home after.
If I had lectures, afternoon rounds, and cases with my preceptor, then I could be in the hospital till sign out at 6pm. On a few rare days I'd stay till 10pm if I had multiples cases, or if a case went late.
All in all, our surgery clerkship is comparatively chill I believe.

I almost never had to do call or come in on weekends. They're known for treating third years really well at my program.

Ob/gyn is brutal though, I haven't had it yet, but I hear the hours are roughest on that...as well as the personalities.

Yeah this is a pretty light schedule.

Most friends in med school (including those at my home school) ended up doing IM 6 days a week, usually 6a-6p then 7a-3p on the weekends. Call was usually q4 and went till 11pm.

Surgery was similar except we had to be there an hour earlier at 5am to pre round. We usually had 3-4 cases per day and would often stay till 7-8pm.

 

[hunterjumper14]

Medicine was usually 7am-5pm, with lectures during our lunch hour. A few days I got out by 3.

Whaaaaa? I got to the hospital at 5:00 every day of my medicine clerkship!

I guess different schools/sites really do vary!

 

[hunterjumper14]

To the OP:

Don't quit, you have invested enough at this point to at least get the MD behind your name. It doesn't mean you have to practice medicine, but it gives you that option. You can do it!

 

[sloop]

Whaaaaa? I got to the hospital at 5:00 every day of my medicine clerkship!

I guess different schools/sites really do vary!

Inpatient for me has been basically 6:30/6:45-5:00 most days with theoretical q4 call till 9:00. In reality, half the time my resident tells the students to go home at 5:00 on days we have call so it's more like q8. In theory, per the clerkship director, we are supposed to go in at least one day every weekend but none of the clinical teams want you to do that. At our clerkship orientation we were told to go in on the weekend but on the inpatient subblock orientation we were told not to. I have heard, though, if you get stuck on a specialty service with unusually sick patients you may be expected to put more time in.

Ambulatory was the chillest thing ever with the exception of one 12-hour day a week.

 

[Psai]

Inpatient for me has been basically 6:30/6:45-5:00 most days with theoretical q4 call till 9:00. In reality, half the time my resident tells the students to go home at 5:00 on days we have call so it's more like q8. In theory, per the clerkship director, we are supposed to go in at least one day every weekend but none of the clinical teams want you to do that. At our clerkship orientation we were told to go in on the weekend but on the inpatient subblock orientation we were told not to. I have heard, though, if you get stuck on a specialty service with unusually sick patients you may be expected to put more time in.

Ambulatory was the chillest thing ever with the exception of one 12-hour day a week.

Yeah you don't learn anything on the weekend, I don't know why they want you to do call on weekends and nights. I did way more h&ps on consult than I did on inpatient medicine

 

[sloop]

Yeah you don't learn anything on the weekend, I don't know why they want you to do call on weekends and nights. I did way more h&ps on consult than I did on inpatient medicine

Inpatient is ridiculous in general. Hours of rounding followed by hours of social work and clerical ****. Half the patients are sick as **** and just being kept alive so that the family can make decisions about DNR/DNI/hospice/palliative. The other half is a mix of patients who are being almost entirely managed by consults, some of whom barely communicate with the primary, and bull**** admissions only there out of an abundance of caution who get pissed off and try to leave AMA every morning. Last week we had a patient elope. Not even leave AMA. Went into the patient's room in the afternoon and he was gone. Nobody knew where he went and we never saw him again.

 

[SpaceDisse]

keep strong I heard 4th year is a lot better

 

[rodmichael82]

I'll try to keep this a brief as possible.

TLDR: Been in school forever. Done mediocre in med school. Third year, burned out, not happy. Thinking about quitting. Have a few back up plans. Any advice appreciated.

I've been in school for 11 years. Started out pre-med, got derailed into the research world, wasn't happy with that, decided to go to med school (pre burned out). Started med school with high hopes, but these were immediately crushed when I failed anatomy. I was going to do a research track but wound up having to drop this because I remediated anatomy the summer I would have done the majority of my experiments. Also was in the midst of a divorce and to complicate things further I have bipolar disorder, so that is a permanent confounder.

Second year rolls around and at this point I'm just happy to pass everything. I did enjoy some of the clinical stuff we did but I was even more burned out by the time Step 1 happened. Didn't have enough time to study and passed with a lackluster 203. So there goes any real hope of doing more competitive specialties. Feeling pretty bitter at this point.

By the time third year started (1 week after Step 1!), I was thinking, okay, maybe this is finally my chance to shine! But as many of you probably know, third year is a total crapshoot and there is almost no correlation between effort and outcome. This frustrated me. I was considering psych and put more effort into this rotation than anything previously. Did well enough on the shelf to high pass but I worked with a miserable attending who found it physically painful to give any positive feedback. So, I'm completely jaded and cynical and sick of all the bull****.

Now I am taking this block off to do some soul searching. There has been barely anything positive about my med school experience. I hate the hours (not a morning person), I hate the lack of time to take care of oneself, I hate the culture of medicine (hierarchy, having to be PC all the time, etc). I have mixed feelings about patient care, sometimes I enjoy it, sometimes I don't. I did enjoy my neuro and ED rotations, but I don't want to go into a residency just to face the same stress and environment that I've not dealt with well in med school. I haven't performed well, I'm constantly having to adjust my psych meds and I'm 100k in debt again. And so I'm seriously thinking about exiting with the last shred of dignity I have.

I have a master's in chemistry and was doing well in a PhD program in chemistry prior to med school. I could get a job in industry, or return to finish my PhD, but I really don't know what I want out of life. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice for me, such as what kinds of things I should think about with quitting, if things are better at all in residency, if I do decide to proceed, how I should deal with my mediocre performance. Any thoughts on any of this would be appreciated.

I feel your pain. 3rd year is the worst year in medical school, it's a bunch of subjective BS. You're almost done though so I would finish the degree.

 

[MedBreak]

keep strong I heard 4th year is a lot better

4th year is where its at lol

 

[Psai]

4th year is where its at lol

Probably the best year of my life

 

[NotWayneBrady]

OP, here's the thing- work sucks. It just does. If you leave medicine, you'll go on to another job and realize it sucks too. And then you'll go to the next one- spoiler, that one's also going to suck. So you can keep going from ****ty job to ****ty job for the rest of your life, or you can take the ****ty job that lets you make a difference and gives you a decent income to boot. Or you could just give up and quit now I guess, only to realize that everything sucks everywhere and you at least could have had a half-decent sucky job rather than wasting piles of money and time for nothing.

Preach.

 

[FindingVeritas]

I'll try to keep this a brief as possible.

TLDR: Been in school forever. Done mediocre in med school. Third year, burned out, not happy. Thinking about quitting. Have a few back up plans. Any advice appreciated.

In the same boat, just one year earlier in the process (just finished a shortened second year). Taking time off now to recharge before third year, I don't believe I can finish it in my current state. I appreciate you making this thread. Reading all of the positive things people have to say is refreshing to say the least when some days I am studying for Step 1 and begin to seriously day dream about being homeless and consider it superior to continuing medical school. I wish you the best man, hope you figure everything out!

 

[gregoryhouse]

3rd year is miserable. I enjoyed working at Lowes more in undergrad than I enjoy working as a 3rd year student. We literally have no useful role. I even went to a more intensive IM rotation at a military hospital where we were expected to act like interns. I carried 4 patients but its still pretty useless when you aren't putting in orders or doing any procedures. There was 2 hours a day I actually did something, prerounding and rounding on my specific patient, the rest of rounding was useless and waiting around in case "a learning opportunity arises" was awful. Its not even hard work, I don't have any problem with the actual act of diagnosing and managing the patient, its all the other BS that goes with it. 3rd year has bored me to tears.

I want to believe that as an intern or resident it gets better because the patient care falls under your responsiblity but I am having a hard time believing that will be true. I just hope the residency I plan to do, ophthalmology, will be better since there won't be any pointless rounding involved.

 

[Señor S]

3rd year is miserable. I enjoyed working at Lowes more in undergrad than I enjoy working as a 3rd year student. We literally have no useful role. I even went to a more intensive IM rotation at a military hospital where we were expected to act like interns. I carried 4 patients but its still pretty useless when you aren't putting in orders or doing any procedures. There was 2 hours a day I actually did something, prerounding and rounding on my specific patient, the rest of rounding was useless and waiting around in case "a learning opportunity arises" was awful. Its not even hard work, I don't have any problem with the actual act of diagnosing and managing the patient, its all the other BS that goes with it. 3rd year has bored me to tears.

...and yet are still expected to be "proactive" about our increasingly-circumscribed, pretend responsibilities. 3rd year to me is far more demoralizing than any job for exactly this reason. Wherever you are you're always just a visitor, no station and no autonomy, most people are loathe to have you do much of anything and yet invariably there's some idiot who expects you to basically make a nuisance of yourself for the sake of "learning." To please one person you have to annoy somebody else and as you're never exactly sure who's grading you the calculus becomes very stressful.

I don't mind coming in early, staying late or doing some menial task or another, but I absolutely detest perpetually being the new guy and the very real feeling, occasionally made manifest by some bigshot or another, that I'm just a useless appendage and "in the way" of people who are trying to work. Third year is a joke.