This could be bad...

[naijagurl]

i seem to understand that effective communication is a requirement for doctors, i guess mediocrity is enough for you. oh, and spare me on the "realness" of his comment.

PS: to the meharry sympathizer, 1 doctor does not make a med school awesome.

alrighty, im done with the thread.

Yes that would be me and if u had taken the time (a quality u would need) to read all I wrote I said I also know several good docs who graduated from there. At least I had a real and concrete example as opposed to ur supposedly many docs say Meharry is crap.

I would be done with this thread too if I were you since u have nothing sensible to contribute to it.

---

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[Lamborghini1315]

speak for yourself ... learn some english. wow, future doc and you speak like this. that comment alone negates ANY of your comments towards myself.

all i read off of you is pathetic idealism. get in touch with reality some.

LOLOL perhaps it's more fitting to speak improper while refering to a person who would symbolize my very word "stupid". Besides the argument, i want you to grow up and give yourself a chance to be a better person.

 

[dr.kicia]

Of course! His name is Fred.

how old is he?
He looks like one clumsy ball of love

i almost adopted a third cat yesterday...i just wish i had bigger appartment.

 

[DoctorMom78]

how old is he?
He looks like one clumsy ball of love

i almost adopted a third cat yesterday...i just wish i had bigger appartment.

Oh, sweet!!! He is about four months old. He is SOOO CUTE!!!

 

[DoctorMom78]

BTW, everyone should just take anything Dr. Inviz says with a grain of salt. He is not a bad person; just a cranky one.

Good luck with the match JPHazelton and good luck to everyone else!!!

 

[Dr. Josh]

it might be a good experience to feel like the minority...

perhaps, but given the choice (and he is asking for advice) i'd pick the alternative...

 

[DragonWell]

Nope. No need. Dually accredited programs for me. As a DO student I get to find out a whole month earlier...why apply to lesser programs and have to wait until March? Also remember as a DO if you are good enough you can sign outside the match. I have friends who have been in an allopathic program since November.

Thanks for all the well wishes everyone. As you know I am always here to help all of you in any way that I can. Except for DrI. Im going to pimp the hell out of him when he is a med student. Make him cry!

(Shamelessly hijacks thread...such as it is...)

Anyone care to explain this business about DOs matching outside the match?

 

[Dr JPH]

Anyone care to explain this business about DOs matching outside the match?

A DO can sign a contract for a residency position at an allopathic program without going through the match process. Doesnt happen often and the program will likely only offer it to you if you are a stellar candidate or they are a program that has difficulty filling (some primary care spots, for example).

I have had friends do this in FP, IM, Peds, Surgery and Anesthesia.

 

[DragonWell]

A DO can sign a contract for a residency position at an allopathic program without going through the match process. Doesnt happen often and the program will likely only offer it to you if you are a stellar candidate or they are a program that has difficulty filling (some primary care spots, for example).

I have had friends do this in FP, IM, Peds, Surgery and Anesthesia.

Thanks for the info. I had no idea this was even possible.

 

[Dr JPH]

Thanks for the info. I had no idea this was even possible.

Possible, but not necessarily favored.

The entire match process is an interesting one.

 

[DoctorMom78]

A DO can sign a contract for a residency position at an allopathic program without going through the match process. Doesnt happen often and the program will likely only offer it to you if you are a stellar candidate or they are a program that has difficulty filling (some primary care spots, for example).

I have had friends do this in FP, IM, Peds, Surgery and Anesthesia.

WOW! Good to know!

 

[Northerner]

DO, as I have no desire to go MD.

Don't tell MD programs this - their feelings will be hurt and they'll have second-thoughts about their worth.

a)
Even if i would get 45 on the MCAT and was able to be accepted to any MD program i please, i would choose DO anyways.
The reason is----> manipulation it's fascinating.

Yeah, I guess it boils down to "to each his own". For example, it sounds like you are the least ambitious person on SDN. Therefore, for you, manipulation >>>>>>>>>> everything else.

Just my opinion, so take it or leave it...

I really find it interesting that people claim that 99% of people who have a great MCAT and GPA would choose a top tier MD school rather than a DO school. I don't totally believe this to be the case. Possibly the majority, but it begs the question "What is the benefit of attending a top tier MD school?"

Is it the astronomical tuition?
Is it the higher pay grade you will receive after graduation?
Is it the bragging rights among physicians?
Is it an attraction for patients to seek you out knowing you attended set school?

I think not. Every one of us who does complete school at ANY medical school will be referred to as Doctor. MD or DO doesn't really matter. It is easy enough to cite residencies that are, as someone put it, "untouchable" to DO, however, when it comes down to it, get the grades, score on the boards, and give them no choice whether or not to accept you. It is unreasonable to suggest that any student is in some way advantaged for attending a "top tier" medical school.

Put the time and effort into the board exams, get scores that blow your rivals out of the water, and it won't make a difference where you went to school.

I will be attending a DO school (MSU) and I actually did get accepted into a few top tier MD schools, I chose MSU because it is a great school, with great faculty, funding, facilities and great in state tuition. I feel as though four years from now, had I attended a "top tier" MD school, I would simply be in more debt.

I also don't see why people think it is so wrong that some people choose DO because of OMM.. It is simply a different way of healing, and an interest to many people. Suggesting that is a bad reason to choose a DO over an MD is pointless.

There's so much mistaken opinion in this post I don't know where to start.

 

[DoctorMom78]

Yeah, I guess it boils down to "to each his own". For example, it sounds like you are the least ambitious person on SDN. Therefore, for you, manipulation >>>>>>>>>> everything else.

Dr. Kicia is very ambitious. Just because someone prefers osteopathic medicine and thinks that manipulation is fascinating, it does not mean that they are not ambitious or capable of getting into an allopathic program.

 

[Northerner]

Dr. Kicia is very ambitious. Just because someone prefers osteopathic medicine and thinks that manipulation is fascinating, it does not mean that they are not ambitious or capable of getting into an allopathic program.

No, it doesn't. Unfortunately, that's not what she said.

I think we'd all agree that anyone who turns down JHU for Touro University for example based on OMM would lack ambition. If you people really want to convince everyone MD education = DO education, stop making ridiculous claims like "Worst DO school > Best MD school". At best, that tiny minority that actually believes that has their priorities a little out of whack. If you want to pick DO over MD, that's legitimate. Just cite a real reason, like location, or financial, instead of parading yourself around as if you're some sort of testament to the strength of osteopathy.

Disclaimer: I am a big proponent of MD is equivalent to DO, although just as differences exist between top tier and lower tier MD programs, differences certainly exist between MD & DO programs as well.

 

[DoctorMom78]

No, it doesn't. But I think we'd all agree that anyone who turns down JHU for Touro University for example would lack ambition.

No, I absolutely do not agree with this statement. Sorry. Why does it automatically equate to a lack of ambition if someone chooses an osteopathic school over a highly ranked allopathic school? What if it is just a better fit for their interests and goals in life? People make decisions for their own reasons and even if you don't agree with them, you need to respect them. Turning down an allopathic school absolutely does not in anyway mean that you are lazy, unmotivated, or unambitious. It simply means it was not the right program for you. If a person is truly an unmotivated person, then I highly doubt that they would even be applying to medical school. It takes a lot of determination to get this far in the process. Someone who lacked motivation would never even get to the point of gaining a single acceptance.

 

[DoctorMom78]

No, it doesn't. Unfortunately, that's not what she said.

I think we'd all agree that anyone who turns down JHU for Touro University for example based on OMM would lack ambition. If you people really want to convince everyone MD education = DO education, stop making ridiculous claims like "Worst DO school > Best MD school". At best, that tiny minority that actually believes that has their priorities a little out of whack. If you want to pick DO over MD, that's legitimate. Just cite a real reason, like location, or financial, instead of parading yourself around as if you're some sort of testament to the strength of osteopathy.

Disclaimer: I am a big proponent of MD is equivalent to DO, although just as differences exist between top tier and lower tier MD programs, differences certainly exist between MD & DO programs as well.

LOL! You keep adding on to this post. I quoted you and then I checked and it kept getting longer and longer...

I think a person has to make their own decisions. Everyone has their reasons for choosing the school they go to. One of the most important things for me was the location because I have children and needed a safe and affordable place to live. But, I genuinely love DCOM and osteopathic medicine and am very proud to be going there.

 

[Northerner]

No, I absolutely do not agree with this statement. Sorry. Why does it automatically equate to a lack of ambition if someone chooses an osteopathic school over a highly ranked allopathic school? What if it is just a better fit for their interests and goals in life? People make decisions for their own reasons and even if you don't agree with them, you need to respect them. Turning down an allopathic school absolutely does not in anyway mean that you are lazy, unmotivated, or unambitious. It simply means it was not the right program for you. If a person is truly an unmotivated person, then I highly doubt that they would even be applying to medical school. It takes a lot of determination to get this far in the process. Someone who lacked motivation would never even get to the point of gaining a single acceptance.

Sorry. What I meant was, "I think any reasonable person would agree that choosing the worst DO school over the best MD school based solely on OMM is either 1) in a tiny minority, or 2) nuts". Either way, it's a questionable decision.

 

[Northerner]

I think a person has to make their own decisions.

Profound.

One of the most important things for me was the location because I have children and needed a safe and affordable place to live.

This is a more legitimate reason.

On a tangent, it's also a little irritating when people waltz around SDN claiming "I turned down an MD acceptance to go DO" as if, again, they're some sort of testimony to the strength of osteopathy, when they never say WHAT MD school they turned down. Turning down an offshore MD school doesn't mean jack.

 

[DoctorMom78]

Profound.

This is a more legitimate reason.

Hmmm....Why is it you only post on the pre-osteo forum when you are trying to "stir things up"? Didn't your mother every tell you that you if you can't say something nice, you shouldn't say anything at all?

It is not a profound statement, nor was it intended to be one. It is just a simple fact. People make their own decisions for their own reasons and some people could care less about the rankings of the school that they are attending. If Dr. Kicia thinks that OMM is fascinating and that is the main reason that she prefers osteopathic medicine over allopathic medicine, then I really don't see anything wrong with that. I guess in your mind that makes the two of us irrational, delusional, and completely insane.

 

[t-funk]

Turning down an MD school in no way shows a lack of ambition. Being in a doctorate program alone already puts a person in the top 3% of the nation in terms of education. How can it possibly be that someone at say the 3rd% is any less ambitious than someone in the 1% range. Regardless, an MD or a DO is going to be more educated than 32 out of 33 people. One way or another, that is an elite group.

I plan on applying to a couple of MD progams due to location or the fact that I do believe they would be a good fit but, in general, I prefer DO. I am non-traditional and feel that I would fit in with the other students much better and have a better time in a DO program. I've had setbacks in life and really bad things that have happened to me, I would just feel more comfortable spending 4 years of my life around people that understand that your grades are not the most important thing in the world. This is not about being less ambitious, it is about being real.

Another benefit about DO is the manipulation. I haven't quite yet developed an opinion about it, but I do have to say it is fascinating and I am excited about learning more. My father drove 1.5 hrs to a small town in Iowa routinely when I was a kid just to go to a DO for the manipulation as did many others in the area. The fact that people would drive that far to have DO alone is fascinating.

 

[Dr JPH]

On a tangent, it's also a little irritating when people waltz around SDN claiming "I turned down an MD acceptance to go DO" as if, again, they're some sort of testimony to the strength of osteopathy, when they never say WHAT MD school they turned down. Turning down an offshore MD school doesn't mean jack.

UCONN

 

[DoctorMom78]

UCONN

WOOT! GOOD FOR YOU!!!

 

[Northerner]

Hmmm....Why is it you only post on the pre-osteo forum when you are trying to "stir things up"? Didn't your mother every tell you that you if you can't say something nice, you shouldn't say anything at all?

Whatever, lady. What you call "trying to stir things up" I call "setting the record straight". Someone makes a ridiculous claim? Yes, shockingly enough, I find it difficult to let it go without pointing out why it's ridiculous.

If Dr. Kicia thinks that OMM is fascinating and that is the main reason that she prefers osteopathic medicine over allopathic medicine, then I really don't see anything wrong with that. I guess in your mind that makes the two of us irrational, delusional, and completely insane.

No, I take issue with anyone who claims to be so far extreme, that they'd do something clearly detrimental to their career to take one extra class in medical school. People who fail to acknowledge that these sorts of decisions fall along a spectrum, and are not black/white, but rather shades of gray are suspect. I'm not saying it's definite that she's foolhardy to say that. I guess we'll never know the strength of her convictions, since I'm guessing she does not have the (according to her) easy decision of choosing between Harvard MD and the worst DO school.

UCONN

A perfect example - you saying "I turned down UCONN for ______" does a lot more for the statement than leaving it out.

 

[DoctorMom78]

Whatever, lady.

Whatever, man.

 

[t-funk]

There is nothing in the world that anyone could do to get me to go to Harvard or any other Ivy. First of all, I do not believe that I would enjoy being around the people and for someone like me who cares more about being happy that arbitrary prestige, that's a very important thing. I also love the midwest and the friendliness of the people and really don't want to leave. I had the stats to go to just about any undergrad in the nation, and I chose to stay in the midwest. It most likely hurt my career, but being happy is so much more important than prestige.

 

[CatsandCradles]

No, it doesn't. Unfortunately, that's not what she said.

I think we'd all agree that anyone who turns down JHU for Touro University for example based on OMM would lack ambition. If you people really want to convince everyone MD education = DO education, stop making ridiculous claims like "Worst DO school > Best MD school". At best, that tiny minority that actually believes that has their priorities a little out of whack. If you want to pick DO over MD, that's legitimate. Just cite a real reason, like location, or financial, instead of parading yourself around as if you're some sort of testament to the strength of osteopathy.

Disclaimer: I am a big proponent of MD is equivalent to DO, although just as differences exist between top tier and lower tier MD programs, differences certainly exist between MD & DO programs as well.

Thank you!

I have had it up to here with all these people who claim that OMM is the be all and end all! I mean get me wrong OMM has a lot of benefits, any fool can see that, but the level of parading and pride in the osteopathic community is down right arrogant. It makes me boil whenever I hear another one of the faculty here at my school bash MDs.

Face, DOs aren't somehow inherently more superior to MDs. President Strosnider came to my school and gave us the whole 9 yards of Osteopathic propaganda on how "we had something that MDs didn't." He talked as if it was something in the water that made DOs > MDs. He acted as if MDs were a bunch of med pushers and DOs were "holistic practioners." I sat there and listened in disbelief. Compared to the USMLE, the COMLEX is loaded with pharmacology up the waloo. And the majority of DOs do not actively use OMM.

The good folks down at the AOA think that OMM is somehow the flagship of medicine - the crown pinnacle achievement and pancenia of the 21st century. If you are a DO and you do an AGCME residency, they will effectively castrate you from having a voice in the AOA - especially in the 5 mean states where the AOA has a strangle hold over.

Essentially those 5 states are saying that MD residencies are inferior and if you train in them, you don't qualify to have a license in those states. Now somebody tell me that ain't arrogant or what? Please. A beta blocker at Harvard is a the same beta blocker used in MSU-COM. An ACE inhibitor blocks angiotensin II conversion via the same mechanism no matter where you train at wheather it be Harvard or Ohio Univeristy.

And let me further point out that the allopathic residency world has opened its doors to DOs. Everynow and then you see someone screaming discrimination cause some Ivy leauge school like Stanford won't look at them -well guess what, MDs cannot even apply to DO residencies. So who is more discriminatory?

So let us stop with the MD bashing. It is mean and dishonest. If you want your fellow MD coworkers to respect you, then treat them the way you wish for them to treat you.

 

[Northerner]

Turning down an MD school in no way shows a lack of ambition. Being in a doctorate program alone already puts a person in the top 3% of the nation in terms of education. How can it possibly be that someone at say the 3rd% is any less ambitious than someone in the 1% range. Regardless, an MD or a DO is going to be more educated than 32 out of 33 people. One way or another, that is an elite group.

Again, that's not what I was saying. It's legitimate to turn down an MD school for a DO school. I'm saying it's ridiculous to say you'd choose the worst DO school over the best MD school, given the chance.

Being in a doctorate program alone already puts a person in the top 3% of the nation in terms of education. How can it possibly be that someone at say the 3rd% is any less ambitious than someone in the 1% range.

By this statement, I'm REALLY going out on a limb and guessing you're not in medical school yet. Once you are, you'll realize that within that percentage that are in a medical degree program, you've got people at the top and people at the bottom. You've got people who are competitive for derm and you've got people with no shot in hell. You've got A students and you've got C students. You've got people who study hard and people who party hard. Yes, people within the medical student pool differ greatly with respect to ambition.

 

[t-funk]

Who bashed an MD?

 

[t-funk]

Honestly, I kind of think you have the definition of ambition a little askew. Replace prestige-mongers with more ambitious and you will be more in line.

 

[Dr JPH]

Yes, people within the medical student pool differ greatly with respect to ambition.

Very true.

I didnt chose a DO school because it was my only option or because it was a backup, and I realize I am in the minority on that. I chose it because it was a strong school, had strong residency affiliations and had the geographic location that I wanted.

5 years later I am preparing to graduate and in roughly 14 hours I will (hopefully) be matching into my top choice residency program.

If that happens then it will make the decision I made many years ago a very good one.

I dont look back at turning down an MD school as a lost opportunity. There is no way of knowing what I would have missed by going there...and no way of knowing what I missed by chosing the school I did.

Point is, I am here now and have no regrets.

 

[Northerner]

Very true.

I didnt chose a DO school because it was my only option or because it was a backup, and I realize I am in the minority on that. I chose it because it was a strong school, had strong residency affiliations and had the geographic location that I wanted.

5 years later I am preparing to graduate and in roughly 14 hours I will (hopefully) be matching into my top choice residency program.

If that happens then it will make the decision I made many years ago a very good one.

I dont look back at turning down an MD school as a lost opportunity. There is no way of knowing what I would have missed by going there...and no way of knowing what I missed by chosing the school I did.

Point is, I am here now and have no regrets.

Amen, brother. Good luck on your match.

 

[DoctorMom78]

Honestly, I kind of think you have the definition of ambition a little askew. Replace prestige-mongers with more ambitious and you will be more in line.

 

[WALKE219]

Wayne State, MSUCHM (MD), University of Toledo, Wisconsin University. Some of us do turn down MD schools...

I feel like northerner is another Dr. Inz alias


Another thing I think is interesting is that it is always the premeds who compare DO to MD and claim supremacy one way or another. I have never heard a medical student or physician try to claim one is any more qualified, ambitious or prestigious than the other. Perhaps a step in maturity.

Also, I am curious how where one attends school has anything to do with their ambitions? I look at ambition as what you do, and how you conduct yourself after you get your medical education, not where you get it.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Wayne State, MSUCHM (MD), University of Toledo, Wisconsin University. Some of us do turn down MD schools...

I feel like northerner is another Dr. Inz alias


Another thing I think is interesting is that it is always the premeds who compare DO to MD and claim supremacy one way or another. I have never heard a medical student or physician try to claim one is any more qualified, ambitious or prestigious than the other. Perhaps a step in maturity.

Also, I am curious how where one attends school has anything to do with their ambitions? I look at ambition as what you do, and how you conduct yourself after you get your medical education, not where you get it.

 

[dr.kicia]

Yeah, I guess it boils down to "to each his own". For example, it sounds like you are the least ambitious person on SDN. Therefore, for you, manipulation >>>>>>>>>> everything else.

you are such an ignorant that you don't even bother to do some research before you post
i did get into an MD school. I could have been there right now if i chose to.
Last time I checked ambitious meant someone who wants to achive more not less.
And if i find manipulation fascinating and have a possibility to learn it so i can one day use it to better accomodate the needs of my patients then i will go DO. I care about your opinion as much as i care about the snow last year.

I do not care what you think or your judgement about me being ambitious or not. I choose what i choose because i like it. And your statement only shows immaturity and ignorance. I didn't know that having a different point of view makes someone stupid . But if you think it does then good luck with your life.
I hope that comming to the pre-osteo forum and picking up on ppl's posts gives you, for a second in your miserable existance, an illussion of high self esteem. I trully feel sorry for you.
I hope you get banned permanently because you never bring anything valuable to these threads and no one really cares here what you have to say. So please go back to your little hole and stay there so we can enjoy a discution on a cultural level without fights and personal attacks (just like we always do before you show up here to enjoy your 5 minutes of attention).
bye bye...
and helo to my ignore list

 

[dr.kicia]

Dr. Kicia is very ambitious. Just because someone prefers osteopathic medicine and thinks that manipulation is fascinating, it does not mean that they are not ambitious or capable of getting into an allopathic program.

thank you doctormom

 

[Doc Henry]

OMG! I started this thread and now it is really really pissing me off. Like I said when I posted it...I'm not basing either school and btw my top choice DO would probably be CCOM or PCOM.

I just wanted some perspective from people who are further into the process than I am.

I'm sorry I ever asked...although some of you in the begining did provide me with some good food for thought and I appreciate it.

 

[DragonWell]

OMG! I started this thread and now it is really really pissing me off. Like I said when I posted it...I'm not basing either school and btw my top choice DO would probably be CCOM or PCOM.

I just wanted some perspective from people who are further into the process than I am.

I'm sorry I ever asked...although some of you in the begining did provide me with some good food for thought and I appreciate it.

I'll resist the urge to make some snide comment about how you should have know better than to compare MD/DO (or anything for that matter) on pre-DO...

You can close the thread yourself by clicking on "thread tools" at the top of the thread.

 

[Taty]

Very true.

I didnt chose a DO school because it was my only option or because it was a backup, and I realize I am in the minority on that. I chose it because it was a strong school, had strong residency affiliations and had the geographic location that I wanted.

5 years later I am preparing to graduate and in roughly 14 hours I will (hopefully) be matching into my top choice residency program.

If that happens then it will make the decision I made many years ago a very good one.

I dont look back at turning down an MD school as a lost opportunity. There is no way of knowing what I would have missed by going there...and no way of knowing what I missed by chosing the school I did.

Point is, I am here now and have no regrets.

Good luck with your match!!!

 

[Doctor Bagel]

speak for yourself ... learn some english. wow, future doc and you speak like this. that comment alone negates ANY of your comments towards myself.

all i read off of you is pathetic idealism. get in touch with reality some.

If you're gonna play the grammar war, you should make sure your own grammar is right. "towards myself" -- horrible, horrible misuse of language. I've read enough of your posts to think that you don't have the right to criticize anyone else's communication skills.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Good luck with the match JPHazelton and good luck to everyone else!!!

Ditto!

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I feel like northerner is another Dr. Inz alias

Nah, Northerner can put together a good sentence. If you've read enough of his posts, you'd see that he's a pretty articulate guy if a little rude. Dr. Inviz -- rude and inarticulate.

Man, I need to stop with this triple post cr@p.

 

[MJB]

Good luck w/ the match JP! You've been a big help to a lot of us here. I hope everything works out for you!

 

[DoctorMom78]

thank you doctormom

Anytime!

 

[Northerner]

you are such an ignorant that you don't even bother to do some research before you post
i did get into an MD school. I could have been there right now if i chose to.
Last time I checked ambitious meant someone who wants to achive more not less.
And if i find manipulation fascinating and have a possibility to learn it so i can one day use it to better accomodate the needs of my patients then i will go DO. I care about your opinion as much as i care about the snow last year.

I do not care what you think or your judgement about me being ambitious or not. I choose what i choose because i like it. And your statement only shows immaturity and ignorance. I didn't know that having a different point of view makes someone stupid . But if you think it does then good luck with your life.
I hope that comming to the pre-osteo forum and picking up on ppl's posts gives you, for a second in your miserable existance, an illussion of high self esteem. I trully feel sorry for you.
I hope you get banned permanently because you never bring anything valuable to these threads and no one really cares here what you have to say. So please go back to your little hole and stay there so we can enjoy a discution on a cultural level without fights and personal attacks (just like we always do before you show up here to enjoy your 5 minutes of attention).
bye bye...
and helo to my ignore list

You're hilarious and positively adorable. For a person who "doesn't care" what I think so much, you sure put a lot of half-intelligible insults and lip-trembling defensive remarks into your posts.