this is a dumb question but...

[GamjaXnamjA]

ok so I've been looking up online and talking to people about the difference between allopathic and osteopathic medicine. I'm still a little confused about the DO career path. Is it REALLY THAT different? It says DO's focus more on the body as a "whole" and see the disease as more than just a "disease".. what the heck is that suppose to mean?


What is everyone's reason for pursuing a career as a DO? Is it only because its easier to get into schools?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[spicedmanna]

ok so I've been looking up online and talking to people about the difference between allopathic and osteopathic medicine. I'm still a little confused about the DO career path. Is it REALLY THAT different? It says DO's focus more on the body as a "whole" and see the disease as more than just a "disease".. what the heck is that suppose to mean?


What is everyone's reason for pursuing a career as a DO? Is it only because its easier to get into schools?

Innocent questions, perhaps, but asked and answered many times here on SDN. Do a search and you'll come up with more opinions than you can read in one sitting. Furthermore, I invite you to do some basic research on the profession and to talk to some DO's. A good place to start is the book, entitled, "The DO's" by Gevitz. It is a nice treatment on the subject.

As an incoming MS-II at an osteopathic medical school, I am discovering more and more that the differences between the two traditions in modern times are minimal at best. The more I am learning, the less I know about what the true differences are. Medical school seems to be medical school and the end result is that we become physicians. The most tangible distinction between the two traditions, as far as I can tell, is OMM, which all osteopathic physicians are required to learn, but dont' necessarily use in clinical practice. Other "philosophical" differences are mainly rooted in history and rendered essentially moot by the practice of modern medicine. These philosophical principles once separated osteopathy from allopathy during the dark ages of medicine, but now they are just common sense principles that I think most, if not all physicians and/or scientists would agree on. Both types of physicians practice to the same standard of care and you can't readily tell the difference between the two these days. I think the distinctions are a bit overemphasized by those who have an agenda. There are a lot of politics and old-school conservation of a tradition mixed into the fold.

As for why people choose osteopathic medical schools? Well, the reasons are manifold. Stick around and do some reading on this board and you'll see some of them.

 

[GamjaXnamjA]

thanks for the reply, i've actually been doing some research but it seems like to me most people here only choose DO because its the "easier" way of pursuing a medical career. However, i am planning on shadowing some DO's this summer, what was the reason you chose to go to DO school?

 

[DeLaughterDO]

I chose to go to a DO school, because between TCOM and the other medical schools I liked in the state, TCOM had nicer facilities, was newer and the faculty and students I met during my interview seemed more enthusiastic and happy.

caveat: in Texas, all public schools cost about the same amount, and TCOM as well as all the other med schools aside from Baylor are public, so money was not a factor at all. Money is the reason I chose TCOM over out of state schools, though. Private schools in Philadelphia are freaking EXPENSIVE!!!

Maybe 30 years ago, this decision would have been more about DO or MD on your degree. In 2008, for all intents and purposes, there is no difference in practice - unless you are one of the 15-25 percent of DOs who actually use OMM on a frequent basis in your practice. Standards of care are set by outside authorities, not by the degree you hold, and if you do not perform to those standards of care, you will not be in practice for long. Spicedmanna said it perfectly.

 

[GamjaXnamjA]

I chose to go to a DO school, because between TCOM and the other medical schools I liked in the state, TCOM had nicer facilities, was newer and the faculty and students I met during my interview seemed more enthusiastic and happy.

caveat: in Texas, all public schools cost about the same amount, and TCOM as well as all the other med schools aside from Baylor are public, so money was not a factor at all. Money is the reason I chose TCOM over out of state schools, though. Private schools in Philadelphia are freaking EXPENSIVE!!!

Maybe 30 years ago, this decision would have been more about DO or MD on your degree. In 2008, for all intents and purposes, there is no difference in practice - unless you are one of the 15-25 percent of DOs who actually use OMM on a frequent basis in your practice. Standards of care are set by outside authorities, not by the degree you hold, and if you do not perform to those standards of care, you will not be in practice for long. Spicedmanna said it perfectly.

So basically it doesn't matter whether or not you get a degree as an MD or DO? Is there any differences statistically in getting hired with a DO degree rather than an MD? For example, if a hospital was hiring a pediatric physician, would they care if the physician was an MD or a DO?

is the residency training the same for both MD and DO?

 

[spicedmanna]

thanks for the reply, i've actually been doing some research but it seems like to me most people here only choose DO because its the "easier" way of pursuing a medical career.

If that is truly the case, then I feel some sort of sadness for those students, because they are going to find out shortly that nothing in medicine is "easy," and perhaps the gravity of the profession that they have chosen. The road to becoming a physician is long, arduous, and expensive; it is filled with sacrifices, both personal and financial. I think one would be foolish to undergo this path without an apprecition for the costs involved and at least some indication that it is going to be personally worth it for them.

Anyway, what I mean to say is that it is not "easier." The entrance statistics are indeed lower on average as a whole than that of allopathic medical schools (for now), leading premedical students, who are frequently obsessed with numbers and competition, to judge osteopathic medical schools that way. I would be far more conservative with my interpretation. I think statistics are partially the consequence of the demographics of the sample (in this case, applicants and matriculants of osteopathic medical schools), the commitments of the programs (the goals of the schools and what characteristics are emphasized, which may facilitate a greater percentage of outliers and non-traditional students), and the overall competition (significantly fewer applicants in the osteopathic pool). Anyway, I would be careful with thinking that it is "easier" to gain entrance into ANY medical program, whether allopathic or osteopathic. Although there is a certain amount of subjectivity built into the system, it is important to be the strongest applicant one can be. Medical school statistics and competition tend to trend up as a whole.

Gaining admission to medical school is tough, any way you slice it. There are those with killer numbers who are suprised by many rejections, when they thought their application was strong, and others that were not so strong numberwise, but ended up doing quite well for themselves because of other strengths in their application. This is a complicated game and it is best to be as well-rounded and strong as possible. In my opinion, the idea is to not only gain admission to medical school, but to have your pick.

Also, I would argue that while many do choose osteopathic medical schools because they were back-ups, others do so for many reasons, including location, cost, and personal fit. These are not insignificant reasons to choose a school.

However, i am planning on shadowing some DO's this summer, what was the reason you chose to go to DO school?

I applied to both allopathic and osteopathic medical schools, but only osteopathic medical schools were interested in me, which proved to be quite a blessing at the end, because the osteopathic medical schools turned out to be the best fit for me. Now I know this from experience. I mean, it's a big game and you apply to all these different places and pick the best program--the one that fits you best--out of the ones who accept you. That is the reality of the game. The rest is bullcrap. I mean you can pontificate all you want about philosophies, etc., but the reality is we do what we can and what we think is best, given the choices we have in front of us.

When I received my osteopathic acceptances, I was overjoyed. I was somewhat familiar with osteopathic medicine and physicians and knew that there was little to no difference between the two pathways and I thought I would appreciate OMM/OMT, based on my background. I matriculated with full knowledge of what I was doing and with all my heart. It was NOT a back-up, secondary choice for me. It was a deliberate and conscious choice. If I wanted to be an allopathic physician, I would have retaken the MCAT and done more to work out my past academic kinks, but I think a little better performance on my MCAT and an earlier application to more and better chosen programs would have helped me a lot. At the end, I decided that osteopathic medicine, specifically the program at KCUMB-COM, was going to serve me the best. KCUMB blew me away during interview day and they really sold me on their program. I am proud of the choice I made, and while I sometimes sigh about this or that, at the end of the day, I'm happy to be where I am.

I encourage you to make an informed and heartfelt decision, whatever it is for you. Good luck.

 

[spicedmanna]

So basically it doesn't matter whether or not you get a degree as an MD or DO? Is there any differences statistically in getting hired with a DO degree rather than an MD?

Not as far as I know. There may be a disparity with regard to academic physicians, appointments to academic institutions, and research positions, but with regard to non-academic military and civilian jobs, I don't think there is any significant issue. There's a physician shortage, you know, particularly in certain areas and in certain fields, like primary care, of which pediatricians belong. All physicians are valuable and needed, particularly in primary care fields and especially in underserved areas.

That being said, there are certain areas where DO's are more prevalent and likely to be better recognized, etc.

For example, if a hospital was hiring a pediatric physician, would they care if the physician was an MD or a DO?

Again, not as far as I know. No physician that I know of, whether MD or DO, is hurting for business or work because of their degree. Now, their performance is a whole other thing...

is the residency training the same for both MD and DO?

It is identical. Indeed, DO's can opt to train in an allopathic residency if it suits them. In fact, a lot more than half do. There are some states that won't let you practice as a DO unless you do an approved AOA traditional rotating internship, or get around that rule, but these are few.

 

[Lamborghini1315]

ok so I've been looking up online and talking to people about the difference between allopathic and osteopathic medicine. I'm still a little confused about the DO career path. Is it REALLY THAT different? It says DO's focus more on the body as a "whole" and see the disease as more than just a "disease".. what the heck is that suppose to mean?


What is everyone's reason for pursuing a career as a DO? Is it only because its easier to get into schools?

DO schools accept more Non-traditional students than MD schools have ever. Neither is an easier path..i often laugh about the portrayal of DO schools. A lot of students have no idea how tough the path of medicine is..if you are not ready to pass a medical curriculum you won't make it past the fall semester in med school. Even DO schools have criteria for their applicants it just happens that they are different from MD schools. The stats at a DO school are not that far off compared to some middle tier MD schools but the biggest difference is who represents those stats? In MD schools you will see mostly students that have just graduated college or have been out of college not too long...while on the DO side there are a lot more moms, dads, folks with graduate degrees, and folks with a lot more life experience. I personally don't fall under those categories..but to be honest i am not an ideal representative of DO students. So the difference is very clear but our education at both DO and MD schools is no different. You often need to understand that stats might suffer from the acceptance of non traditional students but DO's have a more experienced, compassionate student body..this is no knock against MD's.

 

[JaggerPlate]

thanks for the reply, i've actually been doing some research but it seems like to me most people here only choose DO because its the "easier" way of pursuing a medical career. However, i am planning on shadowing some DO's this summer, what was the reason you chose to go to DO school?

There is no 'easy' way of building a career in medicine in the US, be sure of that. However, in response to some of your questions:

1.People have various reasons for applying to both MD and DO:
-philosophy (this is where the whole body vs disease aspect comes in which is honestly just a sound byte/catchphrase kind of deal that is thrown around. When it boils down to it, DOs and MDs practice identical western medicine).
-Location
-Cost
-want MD, using DO as backup (it's foolish in my opinion if you do this and wouldn't actually want a DO, but it is a reality -this is where the SLIGHTLY different admission stats come into play)
-Last, and most importantly: People apply both because it increases their chances of becoming a doctor and that is the final goal.

A couple of things to also remember is that DO students can apply for all MD residencies and the AOA (American Osteopathic Association) accredited residencies-which are DO only. DOs practice the same as MDs and there isn't any difference between salary or anything like that as long as you're board certified in your field (this gets a little blurred sometimes when applying for fellowships that only want MD residencies, but is too complicated and really isn't any concern). DOs also practice in every field of medicine. Hope this helps a little. Try to stick around and read as much as you can, it's really the best way to learn all this jazz.

 

[GamjaXnamjA]

Thank you all so much for your responses, I go on SDN like everyday when I'm bored or just taking a break from my studies(because its addicting..) and reading all these posts about how one is going to go DO simply because their mcat score or gpa was not high enough gave me the perception that DO is just an "easier" path or entrance to medical school. However, I think I have a little more clear vision of what the differences between MD and DO path are.

 

[MossPoh]

I think many of us would be lying if we said DO was our first choice originally. Many of us are indeed swayed that direction because of mishaps in the past. I've discovered over the last couple of years of talking to DO and MD is that there really is not much, if any difference. I did notice that a higher percentage of non-traditional students go DO. I personally enjoy people with life experiences before going into medical school. Many of us did not know our entire life this is what we wanted to do. We decided and THEN we buckled down and went at it. I'm not going to blow smoke up your a$$ and go "Oh yes, I've always wanted DO and only DO!" Once I decided that I was comfortable with it and realized that a school is a school is a school, I was ecstatic for the opportunity to apply DO.

I am throughly convinced that I will be a fine doctor. I stumbled a little on my path, but that is what has built my character and perseverance. I cringe every time I hear someone talk like DO schools are filled with short bus students. Premeds are vicious number oriented little bastards. The system has made them that way and they, as a whole, have become excellent at gaming the system and only viewing the said numbers. I'm not an idiot and know there are normal and good people in MD as well, but I've met way too many people that would drown their own grandmother to get into a med school. That is a bit concerning to me, especially since many haven't even been around it that long.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

good post MossPoh
I just wanted to mention my original intent of going into chiropractic schools at the age of 17 or so. The dream kinda died away as I got lost in general education requirements. Long story short, I started up "pre-chiro" after my BA and found I did surprisingly well in the subjects. I talked to a bunch of chiropractors and heard about osteopathy from them. I since continued with "pre-osteo" and found success. I was then hearing encouragements from others to go "pre-allo" AKA the traditional pre-med type. So, since I think that I might be compatible at some schools, I will consider sending an application to them if I can make my numbers competitive enough.
And in a nutshell, that is my story thus far.

 

[TehDoc]

Only an ignorant person would say DO schools are easier than allopathic medical schools.

 

[fabu1ous]

Only an ignorant person would say DO schools are easier than allopathic medical schools.

True the OP is not the most knowledgable, but I think he was referring to fact that matriculant stats are lower for DO schools which for most premeds translates into getting in "easier."

Like the above posters already mentioned, many people forget that while DO schools do tend to have lower gpa and mcats for matriculants, the average age of MD matriculants is 24, while the avg age of DO matriculants (atleast as of 2004) was 29. The fact that the average DO student is more likely to be a nontraditional student (in that he/she first pursued a career or degree in an unrelated field) is reflected in their gpa. I applaud younger students who go into college and know exactly what they want to do, and inevitably end up with higher gpa's. This was not the case for me, however. I would've never thought that anyone would ever need to look at my undergrad grades!

But, ofcourse, I have put my time in by working 9+ years in social services which most definately adds to life experiences that will ultimately benefit to my future patients. And like the posters above me indicated, I am proud to have the opportunity to apply DO knowing that my life experiences, in addition to my proven ability to master the basic sciences (despite my lackluster previous course work), have been taken into consideration.

Not to mention, I shadowed a DO attending who supervises residents and med students at our state MD school. After having the opportunity to talk with the students, I know I was destined to be at Lecom-B where PBL curriculum is used. The students at the state school told me they were stressed from 28hr/week lectures, which they are then expected to study atleast 2 hrs for each lecture hour. While I'm certainly not ignorant to think I won't have my work cut out for me through PBL, I do think that the lifestyle at Lecom-B is more conducive to me as a wife and a mom.

Good luck to you!

 

[Concubine]

This is just my experience from applying to both, but for a non-traditional like me, DO schools definitely seemed to like me more than MD. After interviewing at both, I realized that my fellow DO applicants did seem friendlier and not so "gunnerish". On top of that, the DO schools seemed for the most part newer or on top of the latest technology. However, MD schools also had their strengths. They seemed more established and focused on research.

 

[zoey1912]

For me it didn't matter if I went M.D. or D.O. a physician is a physician to me. My family has seen D.O.s their whole life, so I knew a lot about it and didn't see a major difference between the two. That could be because I'm from Michigan and there are a lot of D.O.s who practice here. One of my aunts will only see D.O.s in fact. The snoby pre-meds seem to be the ones giving D.O.s a bad name because yes, stats are a bit lower. Bottom line, I get to be a physician and either path will get you to where you want to go. Don't listen to the pre-meds, most of them won't make it to any med school.

 

[MichiganEMTInt]

i really enjoyed reading this thread everyone, thanks-

im going to show this to my grandpa who still believes that "MD's can pay their loans off faster and get better jobs". i'm pretty sure if i matriculate DO next year he won't be terribly proud/happy. to the OP: its about YOU, not other people. do what you love.

 

[GamjaXnamjA]

I love medicine

 

[ComputerGeek64]

thanks for the reply, i've actually been doing some research but it seems like to me most people here only choose DO because its the "easier" way of pursuing a medical career. However, i am planning on shadowing some DO's this summer, what was the reason you chose to go to DO school?

I suppose it depends on how you define "easier". I am the son of two high school dropouts. I worked full-time while completing my bachelors and masters degrees. I have worked for several years since. My GPA is around 3.4 because my freshman year was a disaster. I made a 25 on the MCAT even though it's been 17 years since I took physics and organic chemistry.

When I talked to a member of the admissions committee for one of the state MD schools, she asked about my GPA and MCAT scores and then informed me that I wasn't competitive. My life was summed up into two numbers. The DO schools look further at your experiences, maturity, personality (compassion) and reasons why you may not have perfect numbers. I don't call that "easier", I call it understanding that life happens.

 

[GamjaXnamjA]

I suppose it depends on how you define "easier". I am the son of two high school dropouts. I worked full-time while completing my bachelors and masters degrees. I have worked for several years since. My GPA is around 3.4 because my freshman year was a disaster. I made a 25 on the MCAT even though it's been 17 years since I took physics and organic chemistry.

When I talked to a member of the admissions committee for one of the state MD schools, she asked about my GPA and MCAT scores and then informed me that I wasn't competitive. My life was summed up into two numbers. The DO schools look further at your experiences, maturity, personality (compassion) and reasons why you may not have perfect numbers. I don't call that "easier", I call it understanding that life happens.

ok in your situation its obviously different. But there are so many more other medical school applicants that were just not giving it their best and fail to achieve their best potential in their GPA/MCAT and choose the DO path since DO schools have lower averages in number. I wasn't implying that DO admission was easier, if you read my posts carefully i got the perception that it was easier simply because all the threads about people with below average grades ask "should i just go DO?" or people give suggestions by saying "with your GPA and MCAT score the only way is to apply DO"...