This is weird

[Leukodystrophy]

So in my program we all have the same amount of leave time. However there is wide and vast differences in the true time off residents get. In some rotations sometimes attendings take time off for various reasons, and given that they are the only attending the clinics are cancelled so the residents get the day, sometimes week off. This is completely random. For example I worked my buns off in one of this rotations and even picked up most patients in one of the clinics when my colleague had other things to do. The attending then went on vacation and that same colleague who has the rotation for a second month got the week off. I find this grossly unfair. Another attending also took 1-2 weeks off during Christmas last year. One of my classmates got most of that time off. When I rotated in that attending's rotation, I got no time off like this.

I feel this is grossly unfair. Some residents might ultimately be getting weeks off more than other residents. i also have never been a recipient of this time off situation, since I'm always working. I have even had to work holidays that others got off since at my program the schedule is random and there is no specific holiday policy. I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill since this is my last year but I find it grossly unfair. What to do?

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[rokshana]

So in my program we all have the same amount of leave time. However there is wide and vast differences in the true time off residents get. In some rotations sometimes attendings take time off for various reasons, and given that they are the only attending the clinics are cancelled so the residents get the day, sometimes week off. This is completely random. For example I worked my buns off in one of this rotations and even picked up most patients in one of the clinics when my colleague had other things to do. The attending then went on vacation and that same colleague who has the rotation for a second month got the week off. I find this grossly unfair. Another attending also took 1-2 weeks off during Christmas last year. One of my classmates got most of that time off. When I rotated in that attending's rotation, I got no time off like this.

I feel this is grossly unfair. Some residents might ultimately be getting weeks off more than other residents. i also have never been a recipient of this time off situation, since I'm always working. I have even had to work holidays that others got off since at my program the schedule is random and there is no specific holiday policy. I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill since this is my last year but I find it grossly unfair. What to do?

nothing....and i bet you wouldn't be complaining if it was you getting the extra time off...

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

Sounds like a potential breach of contract.

 

[ddjamb]

Sounds to me that you are getting much more exposure...so ultimately a better doctor.

 

[rokshana]

Sounds like a potential breach of contract.

Uh he's a resident...so long as he is not violating acgme work hours there is no breach.

 

[camkiss]

Welcome to your life as a physician! You will be the recipient of every inch of the proverbial stick. Sometimes you're getting beaten by it, and others you are holding the other end. Random events like this will typically even themselves out over time. However sometimes they don't and you just get screwed. Since you are a professional now, and do not clock in and clock out and get your designated 30 minute breaks like the guy at Burger King, it's best to accept it as part of your new life and move on. You have bigger things to worry about!

 

[michaelrack]

Matthew 20Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Jesus Uses a Story About Farm Workers
20 “God’s kingdom is like a man who owned some land. One morning, the man went out very early to hire some people to work in his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay the workers one silver coin for working that day. Then he sent them into the vineyard to work.

3 “About nine o’clock the man went to the marketplace and saw some other people standing there. They were doing nothing. 4 So he said to them, ‘If you go and work in my field, I will pay you what your work is worth.’ 5 So they went to work in the vineyard.

“The man went out again about twelve o’clock and again at three o’clock. Both times he hired some others to work in his vineyard. 6 About five o’clock the man went to the marketplace again. He saw some other people standing there. He asked them, ‘Why did you stand here all day doing nothing?’

7 “They said, ‘No one gave us a job.’

“The man said to them, ‘Then you can go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “At the end of the day, the owner of the field said to the boss of all the workers, ‘Call the workers and pay them all. Start by paying the last people I hired. Then pay all of them, ending with the ones I hired first.’

9 “The workers who were hired at five o’clock came to get their pay. Each worker got one silver coin. 10 Then the workers who were hired first came to get their pay. They thought they would be paid more than the others. But each one of them also received one silver coin. 11 When they got their silver coin, they complained to the man who owned the land.12 They said, ‘Those people were hired last and worked only one hour. But you paid them the same as us. And we worked hard all day in the hot sun.’

13 “But the man who owned the field said to one of them, ‘Friend, I am being fair with you. You agreed to work for one silver coin. Right? 14 So take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same pay I gave you. 15 I can do what I want with my own money. Why would you be jealous because I am generous?’

16 “So those who are last now will be first in the future. And those who are first now will be last in the future.”

 

[Leukodystrophy]

Matthew 20Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Jesus Uses a Story About Farm Workers
20 “God’s kingdom is like a man who owned some land. One morning, the man went out very early to hire some people to work in his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay the workers one silver coin for working that day. Then he sent them into the vineyard to work.

3 “About nine o’clock the man went to the marketplace and saw some other people standing there. They were doing nothing. 4 So he said to them, ‘If you go and work in my field, I will pay you what your work is worth.’ 5 So they went to work in the vineyard.

“The man went out again about twelve o’clock and again at three o’clock. Both times he hired some others to work in his vineyard. 6 About five o’clock the man went to the marketplace again. He saw some other people standing there. He asked them, ‘Why did you stand here all day doing nothing?’

7 “They said, ‘No one gave us a job.’

“The man said to them, ‘Then you can go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “At the end of the day, the owner of the field said to the boss of all the workers, ‘Call the workers and pay them all. Start by paying the last people I hired. Then pay all of them, ending with the ones I hired first.’

9 “The workers who were hired at five o’clock came to get their pay. Each worker got one silver coin. 10 Then the workers who were hired first came to get their pay. They thought they would be paid more than the others. But each one of them also received one silver coin. 11 When they got their silver coin, they complained to the man who owned the land.12 They said, ‘Those people were hired last and worked only one hour. But you paid them the same as us. And we worked hard all day in the hot sun.’

13 “But the man who owned the field said to one of them, ‘Friend, I am being fair with you. You agreed to work for one silver coin. Right? 14 So take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same pay I gave you. 15 I can do what I want with my own money. Why would you be jealous because I am generous?’

16 “So those who are last now will be first in the future. And those who are first now will be last in the future.”

To add insult to injury, however, i have been accused of being lazy somehow by the same people who have had all this time off. Even though I on average see more patients, have done close to twice as many procedures, etc. than most of my peers. *mind blown*

 

[xffan624]

To add insult to injury, however, i have been accused of being lazy somehow by the same people who have had all this time off. Even though I on average see more patients, have done close to twice as many procedures, etc. than most of my peers. *mind blown*

It sucks now but I'm guessing you'll be happy for this when you're an attending and actually have some idea of what you're doing compared to your colleagues.

 

[gutonc]

It's not weird, it's life. Your co-residents aren't getting "more time off", they're just taking advantage of lazy/ignorant/blind leadership.

You'll get yours...or you won't. In either event, you'll be done in a year or 5 and you'll move on with your life.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

It's not weird, it's life. Your co-residents aren't getting "more time off", they're just taking advantage of lazy/ignorant/blind leadership.

You'll get yours...or you won't. In either event, you'll be done in a year or 5 and you'll move on with your life.

Don't you think the situation seems really uneven to just ignore? Weeks worth of difference in paid time off essentially is curious especially when the contract lays out 2-3 weeks max...

Something smells funny about the whole situation.

 

[gutonc]

Don't you think the situation seems really uneven to just ignore? Weeks worth of difference in paid time off essentially is curious especially when the contract lays out 2-3 weeks max...

Something smells funny about the whole situation.

It only smells funny to MD/PhD students. To those of us in the real world (even the former MD/PhD students among us), it's pretty normal.

To be less of a smartass, no, it doesn't seem that uneven or ridiculous.

Now back to the smartass...could you please just cop to which returned troll you are?

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

It only smells funny to MD/PhD students. To those of us in the real world (even the former MD/PhD students among us), it's pretty normal.

To be less of a smartass, no, it doesn't seem that uneven or ridiculous.

Now back to the smartass...could you please just cop to which returned troll you are?

If I were a returned troll, you all would be able to identify and ban me right? I promise you I am not a returned troll. WTF

Do you think I am smart enough to outstmart an entire network of SDN admin??? You give me too much credit.

 

[Leukodystrophy]

It's not weird, it's life. Your co-residents aren't getting "more time off", they're just taking advantage of lazy/ignorant/blind leadership.

You'll get yours...or you won't. In either event, you'll be done in a year or 5 and you'll move on with your life.

When one resident gets 3 weeks of vacation and significant work load, and resident B gets 5 weeks of vacation and many less patients, it's not fair. If I have to go to a doctor's appointment, I have to take a day off. Yet some of my colleagues get 2 additional weeks off in addition to their vacation time. Not appropriate.

 

[DokterMom]

Now that I'm 'the boss' instead of the 'worker bee' I can understand this perfectly. What exactly should the not-fully-trained resident do while the responsible attending is away? I guess a well-organized attending could leave piles of low-risk scut to do, but both sides are happier with the time off.

One life tip: You will never be happy if you keep score against others and want things to be fair. They just aren't and won't ever be. Don't bean-count and your days will be significantly more pleasant.

 

[Leukodystrophy]

Now that I'm 'the boss' instead of the 'worker bee' I can understand this perfectly. What exactly should the not-fully-trained resident do while the responsible attending is away? I guess a well-organized attending could leave piles of low-risk scut to do, but both sides are happier with the time off.

One life tip: You will never be happy if you keep score against others and want things to be fair. They just aren't and won't ever be. Don't bean-count and your days will be significantly more pleasant.

Perhaps help out other colleagues in other rotations. I understand if an attending is gone for a couple of days, but weeks is ridiculous. Further one of the rotations in which this happens frequently, there are 2 services within our program. When one attending is gone, they could help out in the other clinic. Or they could have another attending cover. Or they could rotate with another attending in another rotation. Multiple things.
Or that time frame could be taken as vacation by those residents, it's not like we get the vacation we want always. It's completely unfair.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

Perhaps help out other colleagues in other rotations. I understand if an attending is gone for a couple of days, but weeks is ridiculous. Further one of the rotations in which this happens frequently, there are 2 services within our program. When one attending is gone, they could help out in the other clinic. Or they could have another attending cover. Or they could rotate with another attending in another rotation. Multiple things.
Or that time frame could be taken as vacation by those residents, it's not like we get the vacation we want always. It's completely unfair.

If you don't stand up for your rights, no one else will.

 

[hamstergang]

If you don't stand up for your rights, no one else will.

It is not a right for things to be fair. We tell this to kids all the time -- why are adults having trouble with it?

 

[Leukodystrophy]

It is not a right for things to be fair. We tell this to kids all the time -- why are adults having trouble with it?

Are you serious? You think it's appropriate responsible behavior for residents to be off for days-weeks at a time during residency? And for some people to do it vs. others? Then there should be no issues with coming in late, leaving early, taking sick days, etc etc.

It seems odd that you and others would be so non-chalant about taking weeks off more than colleagues during residency. This is not a private practice job where you work when you and your partners decide. this is residency

 

[metallica81788]

I work in a residency where we are paired one-on-one with attendings. When they take vacation, resident on service covers the patients currently getting treatment and issues that may arise with the service while attending is out. It can be quite nice to not have clinic for a time, but we are not off or on vacation. This is just luck of the draw when your attending takes vacation and some may be luckier than others, but it usually evens out over the course of four years.

 

[DrSnips]

Sounds to me that you are getting much more exposure...so ultimately a better doctor.

"The problem with q2 call is that you miss half the cases."

 

[ddjamb]

give me a residency spot...I promise not to complain

 

[gutonc]

Then quit. Problem solved.

 

[hamstergang]

Are you serious? You think it's appropriate responsible behavior for residents to be off for days-weeks at a time during residency? And for some people to do it vs. others? Then there should be no issues with coming in late, leaving early, taking sick days, etc etc.

It seems odd that you and others would be so non-chalant about taking weeks off more than colleagues during residency. This is not a private practice job where you work when you and your partners decide. this is residency

I don't think it's good for those residents to do nothing just because their attending is away.

But I wasn't commenting on that aspect of this. I was commenting on your complaint that this is "grossly unfair" to you (a phrase used 3 times in your OP). Life isn't fair. Residency isn't fair. Expecting otherwise sets you up for disappointment only.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

It is not a right for things to be fair. We tell this to kids all the time -- why are adults having trouble with it?

There is no indication that OP isn't being a team player or performing up to par or that he isn't being reasonable at work.

Therefore, to simply brush off his/her concerns as some manifestation of a suppressed childish instinct to pout when he think others have more candy than he is rather simplistic.

We aren't talking about a couple of shifts here as the difference is in terms of weeks of paid time off - a potential breach of employment contract.

While you are right in that there is no inherent right to fairness, there is however an inherent right to call bull****.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I work in a residency where we are paired one-on-one with attendings. When they take vacation, resident on service covers the patients currently getting treatment and issues that may arise with the service while attending is out. It can be quite nice to not have clinic for a time, but we are not off or on vacation. This is just luck of the draw when your attending takes vacation and some may be luckier than others, but it usually evens out over the course of four years.

Same here.

But that's all the time. I imagine in IM or FM (which is what I'm assuming OP is in) he means that certain clinic months the attending has taken 2 weeks off, and thus there is nothing to do for the resident, i.e., there are no 'patients on active treatment to be seen' thus they don't come in at all.

That's why OP is mad, because he/she hasn't had that happen.

OP - It sucks. Life isn't fair. You making a big stink about this will likely not end well for you. OK to continue venting as necessary.

 

[Leukodystrophy]

Same here.

But that's all the time. I imagine in IM or FM (which is what I'm assuming OP is in) he means that certain clinic months the attending has taken 2 weeks off, and thus there is nothing to do for the resident, i.e., there are no 'patients on active treatment to be seen' thus they don't come in at all.

That's why OP is mad, because he/she hasn't had that happen.

OP - It sucks. Life isn't fair. You making a big stink about this will likely not end well for you. OK to continue venting as necessary.

Yes this is exactly it. And no I'm not in IM or FM, but yes the rotations are outpatient so there is no inpatient responsibilities. Ironically the one time this attending for example has been sick, I still had clinic and covered for this attending and saw patients!! On a different occasion I had another attending who took a few days off and was like oh I trust you, you are one of the best residents I've ever had, so I'm asking you to cover for me for these x number of days. So when attendings are off when I'm on their service, I get to cover vs them closing down clinics, etc! It makes no sense.

 

[michaelrack]

We aren't talking about a couple of shifts here as the difference is in terms of weeks of paid time off - a potential breach of employment contract.**.

It appears that the OP is getting all the vacation in his contract...that some residents get extra vacation is not a breach of his contract

 

[Winged Scapula]

Does your specialty board not have a required number of weeks of service?

Perhaps yours is not so tight as ABS, but it seems to me if people are regularly getting "weeks" off over and above contracted vacation time, they might be in danger of falling below the required number of weeks of clinical exposure leading to BE.

 

[DokterMom]

Yes this is exactly it. And no I'm not in IM or FM, but yes the rotations are outpatient so there is no inpatient responsibilities. Ironically the one time this attending for example has been sick, I still had clinic and covered for this attending and saw patients!! On a different occasion I had another attending who took a few days off and was like oh I trust you, you are one of the best residents I've ever had, so I'm asking you to cover for me for these x number of days. So when attendings are off when I'm on their service, I get to cover vs them closing down clinics, etc! It makes no sense.

Can you not appreciate the compliment inherent in this? OK, no extra vacation for you.
Sorry.
Not Sorry.
(OK, hiccup. Had a few )

But what this means is what has been said above -- You're getting an education that your colleagues aren't. You've demonstrated that you're ready for the responsibility. Your attendings can leave you the real work, not the scut ****e they'd have to cobble together to occupy another resident.

Sucks now. But recognize the compliment for what it is. Your [cosmic] rewards are in the works.

 

[Sam212]

Are you serious? You think it's appropriate responsible behavior for residents to be off for days-weeks at a time during residency? And for some people to do it vs. others? Then there should be no issues with coming in late, leaving early, taking sick days, etc etc.

It seems odd that you and others would be so non-chalant about taking weeks off more than colleagues during residency. This is not a private practice job where you work when you and your partners decide. this is residency

Did you make this thread too?
Perennial Sacrificial lamb

It's not uncommon in residency to have people assigned on various services. And when the work is done, they are done. Are you pulled from another service to cover a clinic when you're done early? from what you have said about the culture of your program, I bet not! I am sure that it's program policy to have you just responsible for the service you're on, and when you're done, you're done. It just happens to be that you drew the months where attendings were working. Whatever. Don't be focused on how much time other people are getting off, just focus on your learning and getting the most out of your training. I bet you wouldn't be complaining if the attending took off for a week and you relaxed for a week. You just sound really salty and immature.

 

[Sam212]

There is no indication that OP isn't being a team player or performing up to par or that he isn't being reasonable at work.

Therefore, to simply brush off his/her concerns as some manifestation of a suppressed childish instinct to pout when he think others have more candy than he is rather simplistic.

We aren't talking about a couple of shifts here as the difference is in terms of weeks of paid time off - a potential breach of employment contract.

While you are right in that there is no inherent right to fairness, there is however an inherent right to call bull****.

Are you a resident or still a student? Stop making something out of nothing, this is a non issue, happens in my residency from time to time. We are so over worked that if any of us is in that situation, everyone is happy for them to take that week off unofficially, of course there's still didactics and call responsibilty, that doesn't go away.

 

[surgonc2017]

Yeah I don't see the issue here. Sometimes attendings are away and you can salvage a day/week here and there to do things you need to get done. You're getting the same number of vacation days you signed up for - quit complaining.

This is how almost every residency works - it's not inherently fair, but nothing about residency is. If you spend your residency comparing yourself to other residents, you're going to have a bad time.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Leukodystrophy]

Yeah I don't see the issue here. Sometimes attendings are away and you can salvage a day/week here and there to do things you need to get done. You're getting the same number of vacation days you signed up for - quit complaining.

This is how almost every residency works - it's not inherently fair, but nothing about residency is. If you spend your residency comparing yourself to other residents, you're going to have a bad time.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Really? You see no issue with a resident being off a week or two from residency while everyone else is working? I doubt the board would have no issue with it.

 

[mvenus929]

Really? You see no issue with a resident being off a week or two from residency while everyone else is working? I doubt the board would have no issue with it.

We take several days as reading days or research days over the course of our residency, depending on what clinics are available at the time of our elective. If you take research time and have nothing to show for it at the end, sure, you'll get in trouble, but most people welcome the extra time to work in projects that are difficult to get done during the course of a normal residency.

 

[deleted859535]

This thread makes me think two things:

1. As highly as I thought/think of my residency program, I'm glad I'm not a resident anymore.
2. There were lots of moments of temporary inequities that happened to me in residency, too, some of which were not entirely dissimilar to those mentioned here. Working more than someone else in the ICU. Having a much less desirable rounding schedule in the ICU. What my such-and-such service rotation was like relative to the guy who did it two months ago. So on.

Some of my former co-residents got "luckier" than I did with their scheduling. It happens. If you really want to go to the powers that be and complain, just keep in mind how it's probably going to be perceived. Let's say that you do so, and the residents in question then have to work some alternative arrangements or something. Will you then be happier in your own life because now it's more "fair," and is it worth making a stink about it?

Life isn't fair. Residency isn't fair. Most of the time, it works out in the end. Choose your battles wisely... especially when a resident. Whining about a perceived "breach of contract" based on the above is silly.

 

[Leukodystrophy]

We take several days as reading days or research days over the course of our residency, depending on what clinics are available at the time of our elective. If you take research time and have nothing to show for it at the end, sure, you'll get in trouble, but most people welcome the extra time to work in projects that are difficult to get done during the course of a normal residency.

We do not get research time at all in my program nor do we get electives. Any research done is on personal time and required research also has no time off for. So while my colleagues have this down time I'm working and completing every other requirement outside of work, on my own time. So not only do I get no down time but my personal time is used to do things hat others don't have to take time of for. How nice.

 

[deleted480308]

Their life is not yours. If you are being paid the terms of your contract and worked within required hours you keep your head down and keep moving

If you speak up, you won't get more time off.....they will all get less, and they will be told why.

They can always hurt you more

 

[Sam212]

We do not get research time at all in my program nor do we get electives. Any research done is on personal time and required research also has no time off for. So while my colleagues have this down time I'm working and completing every other requirement outside of work, on my own time. So not only do I get no down time but my personal time is used to do things hat others don't have to take time of for. How nice.

Yeah man, you're the hardest working resident of all time. We get it.

 

[Leukodystrophy]

Yeah man, you're the hardest working resident of all time. We get it.

You are completely juvenile. Perhaps you get to take weeks off your program. Some of us don't. It's unfair and inappropriate.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

 

[Keona]

That happens at times in our program. We are told we are not to leave the city as we are on back up for the other residents. Yes it's annoying when you worked that whole time and someone else got their vacation week and then the attending went on vacation. We have our continuity clinic a few times each week no matter what though so it's not as much time off.

 

[Leukodystrophy]

That happens at times in our program. We are told we are not to leave the city as we are on back up for the other residents. Yes it's annoying when you worked that whole time and someone else got their vacation week and then the attending went on vacation. We have our continuity clinic a few times each week no matter what though so it's not as much time off.

We don't have continuity clinics so yes it's time off.

 

[Ladholyman]

You can try bringing this up to whoever your chief is, but you'll be seen as the "snitch." Good luck.

 

[camkiss]

If you were hired in my group and had this attitude, we would let you go.

 

[WheezyBaby]

Suck it up, christ. Id be happy for a coresident who managed to luck their way into an extra week off. These are your colleagues. I hope they don't share your attitude because the culture at such a program would be unbelievably toxic

 

[Leukodystrophy]

Suck it up, christ. Id be happy for a coresident who managed to luck their way into an extra week off. These are your colleagues. I hope they don't share your attitude because the culture at such a program would be unbelievably toxic

Really? I dont think you'd be so happy that your fellow colleagues ended up with close to an additional month longer off in residency. BS.

 

[Leukodystrophy]

If you were hired in my group and had this attitude, we would let you go.

If you gave preferential treatment in your group you'd be sued for discrimination. Are some people in your group special snowflakes vs others?

 

[michaelrack]

If you gave preferential treatment in your group you'd be sued for discrimination. Are some people in your group special snowflakes vs others?

you could only be successfully sued if the preferential treatment was based on race, sex, etc

 

[WheezyBaby]

Really? I dont think you'd be so happy that your fellow colleagues ended up with close to an additional month longer off in residency. BS.

An extra month in one year? Or you're at the end of residency and you're talking averaged over 3-7 years? You said 1-2 weeks. I have a hard time believing any program has the majority of residents getting 7-8 weeks of off service time and is able to stay acgme-kosher. Regardless, yes, if literally everyone in the program got an extra week off by chance and I was the only person who didn't chance their way into a week off, I'd be bummed. I'd think, "damn that sucks, I didn't luck out like other people did. Oh well." And it would be done. I would not be begrudging my colleagues and thinking of ways to resolve the issue. There is no issue. It's chance. There is no systems flaw to resolve here.