This is weird

[B-Bone]

I don't know about other specialties, but in anesthesia, you can have a total of 60 days of non-clinical (or research) time over three years and still be board-eligible (per the American Board of Anesthesiology). In my program, that was 15 days of vacation and 5 sick days/year. Any more than that (sick time, maternity leave, personal stuff, LOA, etc) and you had to extend your training. No certificate of completion, not allowed to sit for boards.

I get it that one might be pissed about other people having it easier than you, but you only have 3-7 years to learn your whole specialty and every day/case/procedure/etc counts. From the other side of graduation, I'm glad I did as much as I did and wish I had done more.

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[Leukodystrophy]

An extra month in one year? Or you're at the end of residency and you're talking averaged over 3-7 years? You said 1-2 weeks. I have a hard time believing any program has the majority of residents getting 7-8 weeks of off service time and is able to stay acgme-kosher. Regardless, yes, if literally everyone in the program got an extra week off by chance and I was the only person who didn't chance their way into a week off, I'd be bummed. I'd think, "damn that sucks, I didn't luck out like other people did. Oh well." And it would be done. I would not be begrudging my colleagues and thinking of ways to resolve the issue. There is no issue. It's chance. There is no systems flaw to resolve here.

1-2 weeks per rotation for some rotations, for a few years, which turns into a good month or so extra. it's not just one week once or so.

 

[Leukodystrophy]

I don't know about other specialties, but in anesthesia, you can have a total of 60 days of non-clinical (or research) time over three years and still be board-eligible (per the American Board of Anesthesiology). In my program, that was 15 days of vacation and 5 sick days/year. Any more than that (sick time, maternity leave, personal stuff, LOA, etc) and you had to extend your training. No certificate of completion, not allowed to sit for boards.

I get it that one might be pissed about other people having it easier than you, but you only have 3-7 years to learn your whole specialty and every day/case/procedure/etc counts. From the other side of graduation, I'm glad I did as much as I did and wish I had done more.

Again this is in addition to vacation/sick days/etc. And it's not research or anything. It's simply time off when attendings in certain rotations are off.

 

[B-Bone]

That's my point. I don't know your specialty, but in mine these people would not be board eligible and would have to extend their residency by the number of extra days they had missed. Also, it doesn't matter. If you want to be a worse, less experienced clinician, then by all means make a huge stink about this and demand extra days off like your colleagues. I'm sure this will have the desired effect of a month-long vacation for you and not annoying your program and definitely not making you a pariah among your classmates. Good luck with that.

 

[WheezyBaby]

1-2 weeks per rotation for some rotations, for a few years, which turns into a good month or so extra. it's not just one week once or so.

What year are you / what field

 

[deleted480308]

Really? I dont think you'd be so happy that your fellow colleagues ended up with close to an additional month longer off in residency. BS.

I actually would be happy for them, it's ok to be happy for other people getting a good deal now and then

 

[deleted480308]

Really? I dont think you'd be so happy that your fellow colleagues ended up with close to an additional month longer off in residency. BS.

I'll go farther, my clinical site has significantly more hours than other sites with my school. I've had classmates request we propose rules to equalize this and I've opposed it. It's not like my site would get less, we would just end up screwing the other sites in the name of "fairness". I'm legitimately happy for our other students, good for them.

 

[togaedere]

Who have you talked to about this?

I echo a lot of the sentiment above, in that if you do bring it up it likely won't mean more time off for you, but probably less time off for other people. It seems like your program is kind of set up to allow for this kind of randomness.

At the same time, this wouldn't happen at my program. There's a lot of eyes on fairness where I'm at so that kind of discrepancy wouldn't fly for very long. I'm going to slightly disagree with those above that this is something that you just have to suck up without expressing your concerns to anyone. If it is that much of an issue to you you should talk about it with someone. I mean at the very least maybe someone can explain the policy behind it.

So in my program we all have the same amount of leave time. However there is wide and vast differences in the true time off residents get. In some rotations sometimes attendings take time off for various reasons, and given that they are the only attending the clinics are cancelled so the residents get the day, sometimes week off. This is completely random. For example I worked my buns off in one of this rotations and even picked up most patients in one of the clinics when my colleague had other things to do. The attending then went on vacation and that same colleague who has the rotation for a second month got the week off. I find this grossly unfair. Another attending also took 1-2 weeks off during Christmas last year. One of my classmates got most of that time off. When I rotated in that attending's rotation, I got no time off like this.

I feel this is grossly unfair. Some residents might ultimately be getting weeks off more than other residents. i also have never been a recipient of this time off situation, since I'm always working. I have even had to work holidays that others got off since at my program the schedule is random and there is no specific holiday policy. I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill since this is my last year but I find it grossly unfair. What to do?

 

[Leukodystrophy]

Who have you talked to about this?

I echo a lot of the sentiment above, in that if you do bring it up it likely won't mean more time off for you, but probably less time off for other people. It seems like your program is kind of set up to allow for this kind of randomness.

At the same time, this wouldn't happen at my program. There's a lot of eyes on fairness where I'm at so that kind of discrepancy wouldn't fly for very long. I'm going to slightly disagree with those above that this is something that you just have to suck up without expressing your concerns to anyone. If it is that much of an issue to you you should talk about it with someone. I mean at the very least maybe someone can explain the policy behind it.

Yeah. It's a program where it's very random. Even holidays are completely random. Some peoplehave gotten most holidays off and some have worked most holidays. It's ridiculous. I'm not the only one who's noticed it.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

You really do need to let this one go. Life is unfair and it's never good to compare your situation to others. Accept this as another challenge that will soon pass. Does it suck? Of course, but don't let this define you.

 

[deleted859535]

What year are you / what field

My question as well.

 

[bannie22]

I empathize with your situation OP.
Unfortunately, life is frequently luck of the draw, and most residency administrations do not take any effort to ensure work parity amongst their residents.
I really cant see how this can be beneficial to you unless you were to submit an anonymous feedback to your program or to your boards.
Your most likely outcome would be that your all residents are watched more closely whenever there is an attending who is on vacation, which maybe leads to less time off for your co-residents but no change to your schedule.

 

[togaedere]

So what do the chiefs say?

Yeah. It's a program where it's very random. Even holidays are completely random. Some peoplehave gotten most holidays off and some have worked most holidays. It's ridiculous. I'm not the only one who's noticed it.

 

[rokshana]

There is no indication that OP isn't being a team player or performing up to par or that he isn't being reasonable at work.

Therefore, to simply brush off his/her concerns as some manifestation of a suppressed childish instinct to pout when he think others have more candy than he is rather simplistic.

We aren't talking about a couple of shifts here as the difference is in terms of weeks of paid time off - a potential breach of employment contract.

While you are right in that there is no inherent right to fairness, there is however an inherent right to call bull****.

Big stinkin' deal... how exactly does it personally or professionally effect him?? Is he being asked to work MORE in clinic than he is supposed to? Is he having to pick up the slack from these other covresidens being off? And how does he know that those other residents weren't given things to do?
IF he really feels oppressed he can of course go tattle...I mean inform the PD about the descripencies...but I doubt somehow that is going to get him time off from his clinic duties...

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

Big stinkin' deal... how exactly does it personally or professionally affecting him?? Is he being asked to work MORE in clinic than he is supposed to? Is he having to pick up the slack from these other covresidens being off? And how does he know that those other residents weren't given things to do?
IF he really feels oppressed he can of course go tattle...I mean inform the PD about the descripencies...but I doubt somehow that is going to get him time off from his clinic duties...

Rokshana - let's say you were part of an 8 group resident program. 7 of those residents effectively got 10 weeks of paid time off, while you only got 2-3 weeks each year, despite being on the same rotations they were on and working with the same staff/faculty.

When taken in that light, you really would be doing more than what everyone else is expected to do. And so yes, this would affect you. Granted, I'm not sure it is that black or white but still just a thought.

 

[rokshana]

Rokshana - let's say you were part of an 8 group resident program. 7 of those residents effectively got 10 weeks of paid time off, while you only got 2-3 weeks each year, despite being on the same rotations they were on and working with the same staff/faculty.

When taken in that light, you really would be doing more than what everyone else is expected to do. And so yes, this would affect you. Granted, I'm not sure it is that black or white but still just a thought.

DUDE you are going to extreme... the OP posted that some people get a day extra off when the attending was gone... his EXTREME example was 1-2weeks off at CHRISTMAS...and somehow you have made it into 2 months off?? jeezy Peezy have you spent ANY time in residency??

Do you feel that its " unfair " for some people to get FMLA because they had a baby? Or had to have surgery? Or take time off to see a therapist?

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

DUDE you are going to extreme... the OP posted that some people get a day extra off when the attending was gone... his EXTREME example was 1-2weeks off at CHRISTMAS...and somehow you have made it into 2 months off?? jeezy Peezy have you spent ANY time in residency??

Do you feel that its " unfair " for some people to get FMLA because they had a baby? Or had to have surgery? Or take time off to see a therapist?

Relax with the capital letter yelling.

The point of the example was to illustrate a point. I never said it were the actual situation. Nothing of this is about "fair." If the situation is as extreme as OP makes it out to be, something I am trying to understand, then maybe it is THAT EXTREME AHHHHHHHH. Sorry had to.

Breathe.

 

[Leukodystrophy]

DUDE you are going to extreme... the OP posted that some people get a day extra off when the attending was gone... his EXTREME example was 1-2weeks off at CHRISTMAS...and somehow you have made it into 2 months off?? jeezy Peezy have you spent ANY time in residency??

Do you feel that its " unfair " for some people to get FMLA because they had a baby? Or had to have surgery? Or take time off to see a therapist?

1-2 weeks off completely at Christmas, Thanskgiving, and this happens throughout the year as well in most months, most residents get 1-2 extra weeks off, except for me. It's not just a DAY or so off. I have no problem with a day here and there that happens. But when it becomes weeks, then I have a problem with. So yes through residency it becomes a month or so more off which is quite a bit. I can't even go to a doctor's appt without taking an official day off.

 

[Leukodystrophy]

DUDE you are going to extreme... the OP posted that some people get a day extra off when the attending was gone... his EXTREME example was 1-2weeks off at CHRISTMAS...and somehow you have made it into 2 months off?? jeezy Peezy have you spent ANY time in residency??

Do you feel that its " unfair " for some people to get FMLA because they had a baby? Or had to have surgery? Or take time off to see a therapist?

Further for some people, say they have the rotation at Christmas. 1-2 weeks off then. Then they have the same rotation before in Thanksgiving. Another week off there. That's an extra 3 weeks off during the year. Repeat that for another year. That's 3 additional weeks off in the following year, so I'm up to a good 6 weeks off extra that some residents are getting. That's a significant chunk of time.
Further for maternity leave, those residents are limited to the same amount of time as everyone else. So for our board, no resident regardless of the cause can take more than 30 days off - that includes maternity leave. If more than that, then that person would have to extend training.

these weeks residents are getting are not accounted for. So attending leaves and because it's not something that a resident is requesting is not counted.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

Further for some people, say they have the rotation at Christmas. 1-2 weeks off then. Then they have the same rotation before in Thanksgiving. Another week off there. That's an extra 3 weeks off during the year. Repeat that for another year. That's 3 additional weeks off in the following year, so I'm up to a good 6 weeks off extra that some residents are getting. That's a significant chunk of time.
Further for maternity leave, those residents are limited to the same amount of time as everyone else. So for our board, no resident regardless of the cause can take more than 30 days off - that includes maternity leave. If more than that, then that person would have to extend training.

these weeks residents are getting are not accounted for. So attending leaves and because it's not something that a resident is requesting is not counted.

That's messed up.

 

[hello1234!]

It is not your job to ensure other residents are at their rotation (unless you are their senior for the block). It is your job to be the best resident you can be and always show up ready for your assigned rotation. That's it.

 

[LucidSplash]

I would argue that this is fair but not equal. Whoever is on the rotation at the time gets the lucky extra day/week off. It's random who is on that rotation when the bosses decide to take their vacation so it's the luck of the draw; everyone has a shot at winning the resident lotto. It isn't equal because not everyone wins but it is fair because I can't see from your posts that specific residents are intentionally being given these "lucky" extra days preferentially.

OP you can choose to complain about this to the powers that be or not but either way I would advise you to find a way to make your peace with it. Complaining won't give you the extra days back that others have been lucky enough to receive. Even if you complain and they take that time away from the other residents, you gain nothing. No one is going to give you extra time in the future to compensate for what has occurred in the past. By resenting the good fortune of others you only harm yourself; if you allow that to go further and poison your relationships with your co-workers you will be doubly harmed. I'm sorry you feel that your residency "luck" is not exactly equal to that of your fellow residents but stewing over it as you appear to be only limits your own potential for happiness. I've never seen jealousy of others' good fortune benefit anyone and I doubt this would be an outlier.

I'm not religious but there is a reason most major belief systems warn against covetousness.

 

[rokshana]

Further for some people, say they have the rotation at Christmas. 1-2 weeks off then. Then they have the same rotation before in Thanksgiving. Another week off there. That's an extra 3 weeks off during the year. Repeat that for another year. That's 3 additional weeks off in the following year, so I'm up to a good 6 weeks off extra that some residents are getting. That's a significant chunk of time.
Further for maternity leave, those residents are limited to the same amount of time as everyone else. So for our board, no resident regardless of the cause can take more than 30 days off - that includes maternity leave. If more than that, then that person would have to extend training.

these weeks residents are getting are not accounted for. So attending leaves and because it's not something that a resident is requesting is not counted.

then it sounds like you made poor choices for your rotations if you were looking for the slacker ones...

lets face it, every program has electives or outpt rotations that are known to be easy ones and others that are you stay late...we knew to ask for radiology when we wanted to study for step III...

you really think its a systemic problem, then lodge a complaint about it...but FYI, that will most likely backfire for you and it will be YOUR rep that gets a ding, not those residents that had time off.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It hasn't been pointed out yet, but it may not be random. Someone needs to make the schedule. Presumably, they might know whom will take xmas or t-giving off, and then arrange it so that they (or someone else they pick) is on that service at that time. OP mentioned that other people in his/her program have a negative assessment of him/her. And so, the chips fall as they do.

Is this fair? No. But as mentioned, the world isn't fair. I was on call for the DST in the fall all three years of my residency. So much fun to have an extra hour of call. That's just the way it was. I complained about it after the second year. I assume my trophy was the third year, although perhaps it was just random.

Am I a tad bit bitter about it? Sure, even now. But that's just how life goes. Maybe the chiefs hated me. Maybe they just assumed I wouldn't really complain (which I didn't). Perhaps it was truly random. Who knows?

 

[Apollyon]

It hasn't been pointed out yet, but it may not be random. Someone needs to make the schedule. Presumably, they might know whom will take xmas or t-giving off, and then arrange it so that they (or someone else they pick) is on that service at that time. OP mentioned that other people in his/her program have a negative assessment of him/her. And so, the chips fall as they do.

Is this fair? No. But as mentioned, the world isn't fair. I was on call for the DST in the fall all three years of my residency. So much fun to have an extra hour of call. That's just the way it was. I complained about it after the second year. I assume my trophy was the third year, although perhaps it was just random.

Am I a tad bit bitter about it? Sure, even now. But that's just how life goes. Maybe the chiefs hated me. Maybe they just assumed I wouldn't really complain (which I didn't). Perhaps it was truly random. Who knows?

Yeah, and look how YOU turned out! All accomplished and reasonable and pap like that!

 

[TraumaLlamaMD]

I can't tell you the date of DST until my clock suddenly does something funky, let alone a month plus in advance when schedules are being made!

 

[ThoracicGuy]

1-2 weeks off completely at Christmas, Thanskgiving, and this happens throughout the year as well in most months, most residents get 1-2 extra weeks off, except for me. It's not just a DAY or so off. I have no problem with a day here and there that happens. But when it becomes weeks, then I have a problem with. So yes through residency it becomes a month or so more off which is quite a bit. I can't even go to a doctor's appt without taking an official day off.

Look, maybe you should just quit residency. This is just not fair. Maybe you can find a job where you can have your safe space and everyone gets the same. Of course when it comes time for that raise, everyone gets it or no one gets it.

Sound good, comrade?

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

Look, maybe you should just quit residency. This is just not fair. Maybe you can find a job where you can have your safe space and everyone gets the same. Of course when it comes time for that raise, everyone gets it or no one gets it.

Sound good, comrade?

Why quit if he has done nothing wrong?

I like to think that sometimes criticism can lead to positive change.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Why quit if he has done nothing wrong?

I like to think that sometimes criticism can lead to positive change.

I think you are missing the sarcasm in his response.