This vet just doesn't understand...

[168135]

I just need to get this off my chest because it really bothered me.

This summer I was with my friend when she had to put her dog to sleep, and afterwards, with tears streaming down her face, asked the vet if he could take me on as a volunteer or let me job-shadow. He told me to check back in September and he said he'll probably get me to job-shadow at least a couple of days.

In September, I popped in to see him, but he was on vacation, so I left a note with the receptionist telling him to call me. She told me to bring in a resume.

I never heard from him and got around to bringing in the resume tonight. He pulled me into one of the empty exam rooms and what he had to say had me livid.

I have about 300 hours of clinic experience, and at least 50 hours of animal experience.

He asked me what I am up to. I told him that I had started volunteering at the SPCA on Saturdays. He said that was great, but when went on this huge but polite rant about how his clinic has this program and they have a girl job-shadowing on Saturdays. Alright... I told him that I had Friday's off next semester, and would be in the area, because another vet said I can come in and watch surgeries. He asked me how many hours I had. "About 300 clinic hours." He basically said: "Oh... you only need 40 to get into AVC. When students come to us looking for experience so that they can apply, we give them the 40 hours, and that's it. And we're a small clinic (IT'S A 6 DOCTOR CLINIC... I VOLUNTEERED AT A 6 DOCTOR CLINIC AND THEY HAD A VOLUNTEER AND KENNEL ATTENDENT EVERY DAY) and when we do have people volunteer, it just seems like we babysit (Wtf??? Did you not look at my resume at all? I listed all of the responsibilities I had at the other clinic! Some nights, I didn't get a chance to sit down because there was so much to do!)!"

Anyway... I was livid. They've changed the rules at AVC, but yes, you only needed 40 hours to apply... but I thought it would have been too much for me to mention that everyone on this forum said that the more hours, the better, and that the people I'm competing with have thousands of hours.

He ended with "Sometimes we hire students on during the summer... but sometimes we don't. I'll keep your resume and keep in touch."

So clinic #1 has been ignoring me the past 3 years.
Clinic #2 doesn't want to help me out at all because "I have enough experience"
And I've had some luck with Clinic #3... I'll be watching surgeries on Fridays starting in January, but she probably won't have a whole lot for me to do otherwise because the building is small, and with three people, it takes no time at all for stuff to get done.

Grr.

I have a game plan though... look for a research job this summer, apply to every internship this summer, or talk to my relatives (one lives in Toronto, the other in BC) and see what I can find there.

I've got one summer left. I gotta make it a good one

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[BlacKAT33]

that is super rough. ive never heard of a vet doing that before. i have had vets turn me down because they dont have space/time but ive never heard of "40 hrs only" very strange. i would just move on to a different clinic. when i started i applied to about 10 places and then you hear back from whoever wants help. dont be turned off because of this one place.

you mention at the end that clinic #1 is ignoring you the past 3 yrs? is this the same clinic you have the 300 hrs in? thats so odd they would be ignoring you, what specifically do you mean by that? not answering phone calls? did you talk to them in person? keep in mind you need a LOR from a vet so if this is the same place you have the 300 hrs from i would def get back in touch with them.

your back up plans seem great (the research) this will also strengthen your experience more than accumulating only SA experience.

 

[bunnity]

I can definitely see why that would be frustrating for you. My guess would be that this vet has had negative experiences with students in the past, maybe some of them were high schoolers or got in the way or something. I doubt it has anything to do with you personally. The other thing is some people just don't like teaching. When I started my job my coworkers were arguing over who had to train me because none of them wanted to. It had nothing to do with me since they never had seen me before - they were just being grumpy and not wanting to deal with something extra on top of an insanely busy and stressful job. I imagine the vet was feeling something similar, and sees it (fairly or not) as just another thing to deal with, but didn't come off very well in explaining this to you. I do think that it would be nice if vets remembered what it was like to be a student and that everyone starts somewhere, and hopefully you will find a vet that understands that and is able to use your skills.

On a side note I have found that feral cat TNR groups are usually very willing to take volunteers. That is all surgery so there will always be vets around to work with and network with. If you google "feral cat TNR" along with your location you should find something. Might be worthwhile if you don't find an opportunity in a clinic right away.

 

[eventualeventer]

Good idea, bunnity. Here's a link to get started:
http://www.spcans.ca/community/feralCats.html

 

[168135]

On a side note I have found that feral cat TNR groups are usually very willing to take volunteers. That is all surgery so there will always be vets around to work with and network with. If you google "feral cat TNR" along with your location you should find something. Might be worthwhile if you don't find an opportunity in a clinic right away.

Thank you
There is a TNR program in my area. I sent them an email over the summer and didn't hear anything back. Their website didn't list what town they are in, and I just recently found out that it is an area that I can get to by bus, so I'll probably consider doing something with them this summer.

This vet was older... I had an older vet interview me when I applied for tech school, and he told me that when he had applied to vet school, they let anybody in, regardless of grades or experience. He saw a career counselor and they told him that business was right for him. He just decided to go to vet school on a whim

 

[katryn]

Thank you
This vet was older... I had an older vet interview me when I applied for tech school, and he told me that when he had applied to vet school, they let anybody in, regardless of grades or experience. He saw a career counselor and they told him that business was right for him. He just decided to go to vet school on a whim

Doesn't this make you wanna cry? lol. I worked for a vet like that who was in one of the first classes at UTCVM. Thankfully he got it that it's a heck of a lot harder now.

 

[sumstorm]

I can definitely see why that would be frustrating for you. My guess would be that this vet has had negative experiences with students in the past, maybe some of them were high schoolers or got in the way or something. I doubt it has anything to do with you personally.

It may also be a liability issue....that might be part of the babysitting comments...maybe you are the most exceptional tech/assistant on earth, but if his liability won't cover you if something goes wrong (including innocent accidents like falls) he may find the stress overwhelming and may feel obligated to help students get the minimum but nothing more. And in that case, lots of experience would be a disadvantage because you would be more tempted to step up to help, increasing risk. Not saying that is definitly it, but I have dealt with the inconvenient issues surrounding liability and such before and feeling like even good shadowers/volunteers increased my work load and stress level. It had nothing to do with them, but with the extra responsibility in incurred for me.

 

[168135]

I think at my first volunteer job, I signed a waiver about liability and privacy issues.

In my mind, he's a huge jerk. He told my friend the night her dog passed away that he would help me out, even if it was to jobshadow for a couple of days after one of his employees came off of maturnity leave in September.

I also got an email yesterdaying thanking me for my interrest, but there wasn't any volunteer positions available at the time. According to him, there was never any volunteer positions ever.

Still bothers me that they are a 6 doctor clinic and they don't have room for volunteers. If a 6 doctor clinic has room for 6 in my hometown, and a 1 doctor clinic can take on 2, why can't he take on me

 

[sumstorm]

I think at my first volunteer job, I signed a waiver about liability and privacy issues.

Unfortunatly, these don't hold up in court most of the time, at least the liability part.

In my mind, he's a huge jerk. He told my friend the night her dog passed away that he would help me out, even if it was to jobshadow for a couple of days after one of his employees came off of maturnity leave in September.

I am curious, what should he have said to a grieving client, professionally? "I am sorry you are devastated and understand your desire to help your friend, but I can't." Would that have comforted your friend, made you think better of him, or helped you in any way? The argument from the other side is that it is unreasonable for a grieving client to ask for a personal favor for a future associate. It puts the professional on the spot. Also, from what you said, he didn't promise to help you out:

He told me to check back in September and he said he'll probably get me to job-shadow at least a couple of days.

Also, you said that was summer, and then that you contacted them in September, they asked for a resume, and you didn't provide one till late October....maybe that was a problem for him, maybe he thought if you were serious you would have provided a resume immediatly.

I also got an email yesterdaying thanking me for my interrest, but there wasn't any volunteer positions available at the time. According to him, there was never any volunteer positions ever.

Still bothers me that they are a 6 doctor clinic and they don't have room for volunteers. If a 6 doctor clinic has room for 6 in my hometown, and a 1 doctor clinic can take on 2, why can't he take on me

I understand why you are upset, but it isn't doing you any good...and if he owns or runs the clinic, he has the right to determine who works there and spends time there. Perhaps, as a 6 person clinic, they are fully staffed. Perhaps there are tensions among the staff that bringing you in will increase. Maybe he just laid someone off, and worries that there could be legal ramifications if he takes on a 'volunteer.' Maybe he reads posts on forums where people bad mouth vets who gripe about not being able to help, or how they provide services, and worries that will happen to him (or that it has happened before), etc. Either way, a vet is not obligated to take on volunteers/shadowers/pre-vets/etc. It is awesome when they do, but that is out of their own personal kindness or the policies of their clinic. There isn't any suggestion any of us can give you that will make someone who doesn't want you volunteering in their clinic change their mind. Heck, he may just not have appreciated being approached by a client during a stressful situation. Your options are to meet with him again and offer him something that makes it worth while to have you there or find something else.

Good luck!

 

[sunshinevet]

I would reccommend just finding someone else. After all this stuff thats gone on, I think i would find it a little awkward to try and fit in the clinic dynamic. And if a vet isn't interested in teaching you, you really don't want to be taught by them!

And +1 to sumstorm!

 

[168135]

I am curious, what should he have said to a grieving client, professionally? "I am sorry you are devastated and understand your desire to help your friend, but I can't." Would that have comforted your friend, made you think better of him, or helped you in any way? The argument from the other side is that it is unreasonable for a grieving client to ask for a personal favor for a future associate. It puts the professional on the spot. Also, from what you said, he didn't promise to help you out:

He could have said "Well, we'll see what we can do" because if he couldn't do anything, it wouldn't be a lie

There is only one more clinic... I have given them four or five resumes in the past five years and I just kept playing phone tag with the office manager. "I have to talk to the owner... I'll call you by the end of the week!" Next week: "Oh, I still haven't talked to the owner. I'll call you." Next week: "Oh, I was off sick last week, so I'll give you a call." *repeat for another month* "Oh, apparently we have 3 volunteers that I didn't know about, so we can't help you. Call *clinic that just turned me down*" Called *clinic that just turned me down* and they were about to do renovations and told me to check back with them. I tried to get in contact with the other clinic over the summer. They said they would call me and they never did.

I just hope I don't get denied an interview because of lack of experience. I've been at this for 3 years and I can't find something solid. The clinic that I did finally get to volunteer with is the only clinic in the area that isn't open in the evenings, and evenings are all I have free.

I am afraid that I'm going to be denied interviews because of my lack of experience. I can't help thinking like that... majority of the people I've seen here have like a thousand hours. If vet school counted all of the phone calls I've made, resumes and coverletters that I've edited and printed off, and the time I've spent going out of my way to deliver these resumes... I think I could add another 25 hours on there

 

[bunnity]

Honestly I think you should start looking for a place that needs you, rather than you needing them. Like I said earlier, a TNR group, or try a shelter or a wildlife center. I have had a very easy time getting in the door at both shelters where I've done medical volunteering. Shelters are set up with the proper insurance to cover volunteers and there is less liability than with owned animals (although I got to work with those too through the clinic and surgery in the first shelter). You want a place that is going to appreciate your work and give you something to do, and I think you will get that at a chronically understaffed nonprofit much more than a clinic that has demonstrated that it doesn't really want volunteers.

 

[sunshinevet]

If you already have 300 hours clinical experience, and if its diverse, and you show understanding of the veterinary industry in your PS, I don't think adcoms will think you have "too few" hours. But if those hours are all in SA clinics, I would probably shoot for diversity more than just tons more hours.

 

[168135]

If you already have 300 hours clinical experience, and if its diverse, and you show understanding of the veterinary industry in your PS, I don't think adcoms will think you have "too few" hours. But if those hours are all in SA clinics, I would probably shoot for diversity more than just tons more hours.

Unfortunately, the LA clinic in my hometown won't have anything to do with me any more, and the closest one here is an hour away. I'm going to look into maybe going away to get some zoo experience. I'm also going to apply to Farm Sanctuary this year and look into other internships.

 

[VAgirl]

Unfortunately, the LA clinic in my hometown won't have anything to do with me any more

I can't help but wonder (and ask) if there might be anything you're doing in the way that you present yourself to these clinics that is leading to all of them turning you down. After the same response from a ton of different places, it at least warrants an honest look at yourself to see if the common denominator (you) might not be what's influencing this outcome. Not saying this to be harsh, but to give you another option of where to look for how to fix this problem.

 

[sunshinevet]

I can't help but wonder (and ask) if there might be anything you're doing in the way that you present yourself to these clinics that is leading to all of them turning you down. After the same response from a ton of different places, it at least warrants an honest look at yourself to see if the common denominator (you) might not be what's influencing this outcome. Not saying this to be harsh, but to give you another option of where to look for how to fix this problem.

+1. Took the words out of my mouth.

 

[sumstorm]

Honestly I think you should start looking for a place that needs you, rather than you needing them. Like I said earlier, a TNR group, or try a shelter or a wildlife center. I have had a very easy time getting in the door at both shelters where I've done medical volunteering. Shelters are set up with the proper insurance to cover volunteers and there is less liability than with owned animals (although I got to work with those too through the clinic and surgery in the first shelter). You want a place that is going to appreciate your work and give you something to do, and I think you will get that at a chronically understaffed nonprofit much more than a clinic that has demonstrated that it doesn't really want volunteers.

I have to say that a lot of my experience developed out of connections made in animal care communities. It goes the opposit way as well; if you upset one vet, you could be blocked out of several clinics.

 

[BlacKAT33]

I can't help but wonder (and ask) if there might be anything you're doing in the way that you present yourself to these clinics that is leading to all of them turning you down. After the same response from a ton of different places, it at least warrants an honest look at yourself to see if the common denominator (you) might not be what's influencing this outcome. Not saying this to be harsh, but to give you another option of where to look for how to fix this problem.

 

[Danae00]

.

 

[BlacKAT33]

But if the person shadowing me thought that they were entitled to be there? Wow. They'd be out the door so fast. Don't forget who is doing who the favour.

This is an excellent point. Since i have a full time job i have only volunteered for my animal hospital instead of getting a vet tech job. I constantly remind myself how lucky I am that someone is putting time aside to teach me. When people ask me "omgg you dont get paid when you go there?!?!" i always respond by telling them how much of a favor THEY are doing for ME. When i first started in high school my parents really drove this point into my head. And they were totally right. Now i have hundreds of hrs of experience and many other connections to different types of vets!! its amazing how cool networking can be. Two weeks ago he invited me to a lecture.... the admissions committee for my instate school happened to be attending too !!! THANK YOU TO MY VET!!

 

[168135]

I can't help but wonder (and ask) if there might be anything you're doing in the way that you present yourself to these clinics that is leading to all of them turning you down. After the same response from a ton of different places, it at least warrants an honest look at yourself to see if the common denominator (you) might not be what's influencing this outcome. Not saying this to be harsh, but to give you another option of where to look for how to fix this problem.

I'll tell you what I do:
1) I go to the clinic.
2) I say "Hello, how are you?" to the receptionist.
3) I tell them that I'm going to be applying to vet school and that I'm interrested in volunteering or job-shadowing. I then ask if I can leave my resume.
4) The receptionist tells me she'll give it to the appropriate person and asks me to check back with them. I thank them and leave.
5) So at the end of the week, if I haven't heard anything, I call the appropriate person at the appropriate time. "Hi, how are you? I dropped off a resume on DATE because I am looking to volunteer or job shadow."

Then, the person tells me that they will look into it and call me back, but they don't call me back. I call them the next week and they still haven't looked into it, but they tell me to check back the next day. I check back the next day, but the person is away on lunch, so I leave a message... and TWO MONTHES later, they finally say no.

I visited a clinic in my hometown, with the same speal. The receptionist went out back and got the vet for me. I introduced myself, went through my speal again, he asked me about my experiences and tells me that he'll try to arrange for me to come in when I'm home for spring break in February. Great! I give the clinic a call at the end of January. Receptionist leaves him a message and says she'll get him to call me back. In the middle of February, I call again and leave another message and they said he will call me. The day I come home, I call the clinic and apparently the vet took the week off and wasn't in the office. I told the receptionist that I had talked to him in December about volunteering and was wondering if I was supposed to be doing that this week. She knew nothing about it because she told me that they normally don't have volunteers and told me to call him when he gets back.

I'm not exaggerating here at all. The only part that might seem annoying is the phone calls... but they tell me to call at such-and-such a time, or tell me to keep checking back... what am I supposed to do?

I've had good luck with this at two clinics... bad luck at four.

I know that sometimes it is really busy and really hecktic in there, but how hard is it to call somebody back and tell them that they aren't looking for volunteers or are unable to jobshadow at this time. They just kind of lead me on

 

[168135]

Wow! The only thing I get from your post is that you have an overwhelming sense of entitlement. If any vet sensed that this is how you actually feel then there is no doubt in my mind why they didn't want you around. You were actually livid because this vet wasn't going to put himself out and cater to your needs?

Do you have any idea how disruptive it is to have someone shadowing you? I'm assuming you have never worked a real career before so you don't know just how much of a favour these vets are doing for you.

I've had people job shadow me before (totally different setting than a vet clinic). Let me tell you, having someone shadow you instantly drops your productivity *a lot*. It's distracting and disruptive. It takes away time from other work that you should be doing. But it's a good thing to do for the future of your field, so you sacrifice and put up with it. And it can actually be a lot of fun, assuming you don't have a lot of work to do that day.

But if the person shadowing me thought that they were entitled to be there? Wow. They'd be out the door so fast. Don't forget who is doing who the favour.

I am sick and tired of vet clinics telling me that they'll help me out, DRAG IT OUT FOR SEVERAL MONTHS, then tell me I can't. Seriously. Oh, you have to ask the owner permission for me to volunteer? That's great, I'll wait. TWO MONTHS LATER, and you're still telling me that you haven't asked yet. Okay. I'll wait. A week later: "Sorry for not keeping in touch. Apparently we have 3 volunteers already that I didn't know about. Try another clinic or try here again in the fall!"

If you had resumes passed out everywhere and were sitting on your hands waiting for somebody to get back to you, you'd be a little upset too over the time frame.

Oh... and I was told on here that sometimes you have to be persistant to get what you want. Persistance for me has paid off in the past. I had to drop two resumes off and call the tech responsible for volunteers in order for me to get that position. I emailed a prof that I didn't even know, who's wife was a vet, who then referred me to this wonderful vet who was just opening her clinic. I met her at her open house, dropped off a resume, did some volunteering, asked to do some in the summer and couldn't (and *shock*, it only took her a day to get back to me, which gave me time to get my SPCA form passed in and record check done for September) so I asked her this fall, and she told me she'd love to have me come January.

I'm frusterated. I don't mean to be entitled, I'm just sick and tired of people getting my hopes up and then not acting on what they tell me.

 

[BlacKAT33]

since volunteering in a SA hospital isnt going well right now, and its obviously causing you anger, i would suggest just focusing on the research internship this summer (like you mentioned in ur first post). Now, i know the summer is super far away, but if you could get your foot in the door somewhere in jan. then you'll have a solid position in time for summer when everyone wants a full time job.

When I was a jr. i told my advisor i was interested in wildlife/field experience. he told me about this prof who also does field research on wild birds. I wrote her an email saying how my advisor told me she would be a good fit for my interests and she took me on as a volunteer. Then I eventually got credit for doing research with her. Then that summer she signed me on with a pay check!! wooo hoo i even got to go on a trip to NY to do research at a diff location.

 

[sumstorm]

If you had resumes passed out everywhere and were sitting on your hands waiting for somebody to get back to you, you'd be a little upset too over the time frame.

I wish I could tell you that this doesn't happen in the working world, but it does. I can send out dozens of tailored resumes to targeted positions with contacts within the company, and get no response. I can even get interviews, then have employers ducking me...or my all time favorite, after 4 calls (after thank you notes and such, and only becuse I have another job offer but would prefer the position I interviewed for) I was finally told they decided not to fill the position. Then called me back SIX MONTHS later to offer me a 1 month temp position tagging venemous snakes solo in the field. I respectfully declined in light of having a full time job.

I have heard of relief vets and associate vets having the same problem. I know it is hard and I know it makes everything ten times harder than it needs to be, but saying that he is a jerk reflects on you...just as much as his behavior does on him. I am curious, what is your resume like? Maybe there is something else that is presenting a stumbling block (not saying that there has to be....but the only way we can help you is by focusing on you, since we can't affect the vets!)

 

[DVMDream]

I have worked as a vet tech for a few years now so I will give you my perspective. The main vet at our clinic is the one who decides if someone can shadow/volunteer. This vet also takes a lot of vacations especially recently. Also, there is a lot of work involved in running a clinic. Our clinic is 3 doctors and has its share of busy days and not busy days, but our office manager, who would be the one to discuss somebody shadowing the vet, is usually very busy. They have to make sure the bills are being paid, the techs are doing their jobs, the controlled drugs have been logged properly,etc, etc and also many of them also do technician work on top of their manager duties. So, if the vet is out of town or if the office manager is busy it can sometimes take us a few months to reply back. Things happen, maybe when the vet said that you could possibly job shadow in February the clinic was having a slow period and he thought it wouldn't be a problem come February, but all of a sudden things have picked up. (I don't mind volunteers/shadowers, but if it is really busy and I have someone standing there constantly asking questions it can make the job slightly more difficult and causes me to work a little bit slower because I have to explain everything.) Or maybe he was out of town due to a family emergency. Also, it is a liability to have a volunteer or someone job shadowing. Even if that person is not doing anything hands on (we do not allow our volunteer/shadowers to touch the animals) a cat can get angry fly across the room and scratch or bite just about anybody, so by even just watching you can get injured. I understand it is frustrating when all you want to do is get some experience, but maybe try offering to be a kennel worker and then see if they will let you watch some of the clinical stuff. Also, unless you did something really wrong, I can't see why a clinic would never want to have anything to do with you again...that seems kind of awkward. I have meet some people who are really weird/strange or felt like they deserved to be there, but no one that was so incredibly bad that anyone in the clinic would want to have nothing to do with them again. My suggestion would be to volunteer at a place that needs you, maybe a shelter that has a vet clinic and then try to work your way into observing things at the clinic or to see if you can find a clinic that needs a kennel worker and go from there.

 

[168135]

Sorry for being cranky earlier. Sometimes a girl just needs to vent. I just didn't like it when he told me that all I need is 40 hours and nothing more. He didn't do the research like I did, and doesn't intimately know the people that I do and what they've done to strengthen their application.

And sumstorm makes a great point. I've experienced this in the work world as well. I come from a pretty cliquey town, and I think that the only reason I got the job that I did was because I knew everybody that worked there (it was at Dairy Queen). The spring before I went away to university, I had 6 resumes out, looking for some extra work for the spring and summer, and heard nothing back. But then, when I applied to Dairy Queen here, the manager hired me and cancelled my interview. But anyway... it is the same sort of frusteration when you've got your resumes out everywhere and hear nothing back.

If someone doesn't mind taking a look at my resume, I can send it along.

Anyway... I do volunteer at the SPCA... started a couple of weeks ago... and last night, my friend told me that one of her profs are looking for students for research. I know the prof quite well and went to see him today, and we'll see about it on Monday. I've got the grades for it, but he prefers students who have taken his invert class, but apparently he'll consider anyone... so I'm keeping my fingers crossed and trying to stay positive.

 

[VAgirl]

Sorry for being cranky earlier. Sometimes a girl just needs to vent. I just didn't like it when he told me that all I need is 40 hours and nothing more. He didn't do the research like I did, and doesn't intimately know the people that I do and what they've done to strengthen their application.

And sumstorm makes a great point. I've experienced this in the work world as well. I come from a pretty cliquey town, and I think that the only reason I got the job that I did was because I knew everybody that worked there (it was at Dairy Queen). The spring before I went away to university, I had 6 resumes out, looking for some extra work for the spring and summer, and heard nothing back. But then, when I applied to Dairy Queen here, the manager hired me and cancelled my interview. But anyway... it is the same sort of frusteration when you've got your resumes out everywhere and hear nothing back.

If someone doesn't mind taking a look at my resume, I can send it along.

Anyway... I do volunteer at the SPCA... started a couple of weeks ago... and last night, my friend told me that one of her profs are looking for students for research. I know the prof quite well and went to see him today, and we'll see about it on Monday. I've got the grades for it, but he prefers students who have taken his invert class, but apparently he'll consider anyone... so I'm keeping my fingers crossed and trying to stay positive.

I'd be happy to look at your resume. I will try to get to it this weekend if you send it that fast (PM me and I'll send you my email), otherwise I might not get to it till the quarter's over.

I think that's a fantastically proactive step to ask people to review your resume for you and I applaud it.