Thoughts about Elizabeth Warren's New Health Plan?

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Good point, I wonder how Italy is faring with their Universal Healthcare system?

I feel like this point needs to be stated often

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[deleted927028]

My main point is about our hypocrisy. When the situation is conducive for looting, we want to give the full control to the private vultures and have a limited government. But when the situation becomes gloomy, we need the big government to take care of every one. All of a sudden, the evil government become a good thing? Where are insurance executives today who made billions for nearly hundred years? I don’t see even one of them in the frontline and taking responsibility. Where are they hiding? When Bernie proposed M4A , even those made just 30 or 40k ridiculed him, calling him a socialist, communist and saying that “I don’t want to pay for other’s healthcare “. What is their stand today? If they are one of those millions who lost or will lose their jobs and along with their lovely private insurance, are they going to deny government assistance? If not, aren’t they making others to pay for their needs? What happened to the so called individual responsibility?

 

[deleted927028]

Socialism is a bad thing UNTIL WE NEED IT.

 

[deleted927028]

They expect that 40 millions will lose their jobs by mid April. I hope that they value their individual freedom, take personal responsibility and refuse to take the help from the evil government Coronavirus has taken over the campaign for Bernie Sanders.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

My main point is about our hypocrisy. When the situation is conducive for looting, we want to give the full control to the private vultures and have a limited government. But when the situation becomes gloomy, we need the big government to take care of every one. All of a sudden, the evil government become a good thing? Where are insurance executives today who made billions for nearly hundred years? I don’t see even one of them in the frontline and taking responsibility. Where are they hiding? When Bernie proposed M4A , even those made just 30 or 40k ridiculed him, calling him a socialist, communist and saying that “I don’t want to pay for other’s healthcare “. What is their stand today? If they are one of those millions who lost or will lose their jobs and along with their lovely private insurance, are they going to deny government assistance? If not, aren’t they making others to pay for their needs? What happened to the so called individual responsibility?

Socialism is a bad thing UNTIL WE NEED IT.

They expect that 40 millions will lose their jobs by mid April. I hope that they value their individual freedom, take personal responsibility and refuse to take the help from the evil government Coronavirus has taken over the campaign for Bernie Sanders.

Answer. The. Question. If everything is as you say, then why is Italy literally getting pummeled right now in an order of magnitude greater than everywhere else? They literally have the healthcare system you are in here glorifying, how has it helped them?

 

[deleted480308]

My main point is about our hypocrisy. When the situation is conducive for looting, we want to give the full control to the private vultures and have a limited government. But when the situation becomes gloomy, we need the big government to take care of every one. All of a sudden, the evil government become a good thing? Where are insurance executives today who made billions for nearly hundred years? I don’t see even one of them in the frontline and taking responsibility. Where are they hiding? When Bernie proposed M4A , even those made just 30 or 40k ridiculed him, calling him a socialist, communist and saying that “I don’t want to pay for other’s healthcare “. What is their stand today? If they are one of those millions who lost or will lose their jobs and along with their lovely private insurance, are they going to deny government assistance? If not, aren’t they making others to pay for their needs? What happened to the so called individual responsibility?

Socialism is still bad, that hasn’t changed

 

[deleted927028]

Answer. The. Question. If everything is as you say, then why is Italy literally getting pummeled right now in an order of magnitude greater than everywhere else? They literally have the healthcare system you are in here glorifying, how has it helped them?

how much an Italian is paying for healthcare and how much an American pays? In Italy, government runs healthcare and it takes care of their citizens when the **** hits the fan? In America, where are those who made billions? Why all of a sudden it becomes the evil government’s responsibility?

 

[deleted927028]

I used to think that the people will repent in 10 years for not listening to Bernie but the Coronavirus has proved me terribly wrong. I am really glad that Bernie had the last laugh. If the people don’t want to listen to him even now, then they deserve everything they get .

 

[deleted480308]

how much an Italian is paying for healthcare and how much an American pays? In Italy, government runs healthcare and it takes care of their citizens when the **** hits the fan? In America, where are those who made billions? Why all of a sudden it becomes the evil government’s responsibility?

Italy is not doing a good job and they still pay a lot for healthcare

It is not the govt’s responsibility

 

[deleted927028]

Socialism is still bad, that hasn’t changed

I don’t think so. If it is bad, the 40 million should not take any help from the government even if they contract the coronavirus. You can’t say “heads I win, tails you lose “

 

[deleted480308]

I don’t think so. If it is bad, the 40 million should not take any help from the government even if they contract the coronavirus. You can’t say “heads I win, tails you lose “

The govt shouldn’t tax them for it, displace private industry with a bully pulpit, or devalue the currency with these stimulus packages.....

Socialism is bad

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

how much an Italian is paying for healthcare and how much an American pays? In Italy, government runs healthcare and it takes care of their citizens when the **** hits the fan? In America, where are those who made billions? Why all of a sudden it becomes the evil government’s responsibility?

I used to think that the people will repent in 10 years for not listening to Bernie but the Coronavirus has proved me terribly wrong. I am really glad that Bernie had the last laugh. If the people don’t want to listen to him even now, then they deserve everything they get .

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Nephro critical care]

The govt shouldn’t tax them for it, displace private industry with a bully pulpit, or devalue the currency with these stimulus packages.....

Socialism is bad

It is estimated that there will 47 million jobs lost in the USA due to the pandemic. 32% of the population will be unemployed far more than the 24.9 % in the Great Depression. What do you suggest those 47 million people should do ?

 

[Cornfed101]

Intermountain will cut pay for doctors and nurse practitioners amid coronavirus pandemic

<b>Editor’s note:</b> <i>The Salt Lake Tribune is providing readers free access to critical local stories about the coronavirus during this time of heightened concern. See more coverage </i><a href="https://www.sltrib.com/tag/coronavirus/"><i>here</i></a><i>. To support journalism like this...

www.sltrib.com

I think my favorite part is the following (gotta love hospital admin):
A list of frequently asked questions sent to staff also appears to say that administrators, who are working from home during the virus, will not see salary reductions at this time.

“How does this affect the compensation of provider leaders? Will they take a pay cut too?” the document asks. The provided response then answers: “Intermountain is continuing to pay people for the work they are doing.”

The CEO of Intermountain made roughly $1.6 million in 2017, according to public tax documents.

 

[deleted480308]

Intermountain will cut pay for doctors and nurse practitioners amid coronavirus pandemic

<b>Editor’s note:</b> <i>The Salt Lake Tribune is providing readers free access to critical local stories about the coronavirus during this time of heightened concern. See more coverage </i><a href="https://www.sltrib.com/tag/coronavirus/"><i>here</i></a><i>. To support journalism like this...

www.sltrib.com

I think my favorite part is the following (gotta love hospital admin):
A list of frequently asked questions sent to staff also appears to say that administrators, who are working from home during the virus, will not see salary reductions at this time.

“How does this affect the compensation of provider leaders? Will they take a pay cut too?” the document asks. The provided response then answers: “Intermountain is continuing to pay people for the work they are doing.”

The CEO of Intermountain made roughly $1.6 million in 2017, according to public tax documents.

Check out these Eeeeemmmmm fffffffffffeeeerrrrrrsssss

 

[deleted480308]

It is estimated that there will 47 million jobs lost in the USA due to the pandemic. 32% of the population will be unemployed far more than the 24.9 % in the Great Depression. What do you suggest those 47 million people should do ?

Not steal from their neighbors.

Save up for bad times, get more creative about your skillset, offer labor in trade for goods or services....at the end of the day it’s not my neighbor’s problem if I lose my job, I have to figure it out

 

[happydo1]

Not steal from their neighbors.

Save up for bad times, get more creative about your skillset, offer labor in trade for goods or services....at the end of the day it’s not my neighbor’s problem if I lose my job, I have to figure it out

Many Americans are living pay check to pay check how would they be able to “save up for bad times” . Getting more “creative” about your skill set will not guarantee a job especially now when many businesses are closing because of the pandemic .... your statement is very dismissive of the struggle many are facing given what is happening now.

 

[deleted480308]

Many Americans are living pay check to pay check how would they be able to “save up for bad times” . Getting more “creative” about your skill set will not guarantee a job especially now when many businesses are closing because of the pandemic .... your statement is very dismissive of the struggle many are facing given what is happening now.

No. My statement is pretty clear that it’s still not their right to lay their problems on the neighbors. I gave some suggestions for how to avoid this because that’s what I have done and would do

But if I failed at it....my neighbors still don’t owe me anything

 

[VincentAdultman]

I used to think that the people will repent in 10 years for not listening to Bernie but the Coronavirus has proved me terribly wrong. I am really glad that Bernie had the last laugh. If the people don’t want to listen to him even now, then they deserve everything they get .

gross

 

[VincentAdultman]

how much an Italian is paying for healthcare and how much an American pays? In Italy, government runs healthcare and it takes care of their citizens when the **** hits the fan? In America, where are those who made billions? Why all of a sudden it becomes the evil government’s responsibility?

Oh Italy’s citizens are “getting taken care of” all right. Well disproportionately the older ones anyway.

It’s almost like maybe, when a global catastrophe occurs, your economic model....doesn’t really matter too much.

 

[deleted927028]

Welcome to the greatest country ever . See how the noble , efficient, the paragon of virtues called private companies behave in the dire situation. As usual, the government also goes along with it, because we are not a communist or socialist country to be fair. Welcome to the so called only capitalist country where rich guys and corporations can loot as much as they can and the gullible fool themselves saying this is capitalism and it is good for them.

In Desperation, New York State Pays Up To 15 Times The Normal Prices For Medical Equipment

State data shows that New York is paying enormous markups for vital supplies, including almost $250,000 for an X-ray machine. Laws against price gouging usually don’t apply.

www.huffpost.com

 

[deleted480308]

Welcome to the greatest country ever . See how the noble , efficient, the paragon of virtues called private companies behave in the dire situation. As usual, the government also goes along with it, because we are not a communist or socialist country to be fair. Welcome to the so called only capitalist country where rich guys and corporations can loot as much as they can and the gullible fool themselves saying this is capitalism and it is good for them.

In Desperation, New York State Pays Up To 15 Times The Normal Prices For Medical Equipment

State data shows that New York is paying enormous markups for vital supplies, including almost $250,000 for an X-ray machine. Laws against price gouging usually don’t apply.

www.huffpost.com

at a time when something is infinitely more valuable due to it's scarcity, yes......you pay more

 

[Cornfed101]

Welcome to the greatest country ever . See how the noble , efficient, the paragon of virtues called private companies behave in the dire situation. As usual, the government also goes along with it, because we are not a communist or socialist country to be fair. Welcome to the so called only capitalist country where rich guys and corporations can loot as much as they can and the gullible fool themselves saying this is capitalism and it is good for them.

In Desperation, New York State Pays Up To 15 Times The Normal Prices For Medical Equipment

State data shows that New York is paying enormous markups for vital supplies, including almost $250,000 for an X-ray machine. Laws against price gouging usually don’t apply.

www.huffpost.com

it doesn’t really help that we were continuing to export medical equipment through mid March... if we didn’t pay for it somebody else would.

Key Medical Supplies Were Shipped From U.S. Manufacturers to Foreign Buyers, Records Show

U.S. firms exported large shipments of personal protective gear and respiratory equipment in recent weeks.

theintercept.com

 

[Cornfed101]

at a time when something is infinitely more valuable due to it's scarcity, yes......you pay more

And when the government basically has bottomless pockets, why not? $2 trillion today, $10 trillion tomorrow.

 

[deleted480308]

And when the government basically has bottomless pockets, why not? $2 trillion today, $10 trillion tomorrow.

Couple reasons, first the govt shouldn’t be buying them at all. Second, if the price starts drifting that crazy then more companies will decide that they fabricate vents and the supply goes up and starts to mitigate the price

In a short term rush on demand prices fluctuate. That is fine

 

[Cornfed101]

Couple reasons, first the govt shouldn’t be buying them at all. Second, if the price starts drifting that crazy then more companies will decide that they fabricate vents and the supply goes up and starts to mitigate the price

In a short term rush on demand prices fluctuate. That is fine

I’m just saying that you can’t blame companies for taking advantage of the government if they are willing to pay for it

 

[deleted927028]

at a time when something is infinitely more valuable due to it's scarcity, yes......you pay

it doesn’t really help that we were continuing to export medical equipment through mid March... if we didn’t pay for it somebody else would.

Key Medical Supplies Were Shipped From U.S. Manufacturers to Foreign Buyers, Records Show

U.S. firms exported large shipments of personal protective gear and respiratory equipment in recent weeks.

theintercept.com

No other country will pay more. They are all too smart and all of them have price controls. We are the only stupids who don’t understand a simple concept that supply and demand will never work for essential things and that foolishness is the reason we even defend this non sense calling it freedom. The corporations and rich take advantage of that stupidity and laugh all the way to the bank,

 

[deleted927028]

Couple reasons, first the govt shouldn’t be buying them at all. Second, if the price starts drifting that crazy then more companies will decide that they fabricate vents and the supply goes up and starts to mitigate the price

In a short term rush on demand prices fluctuate. That is fine

So what is your solution and suggestion on how to handle the coronavirus patients? Let them die until the supply and demand brings down the ventilator prices down?

 

[Cornfed101]

thats exactly what I was saying... we aren’t just price gouging ourselves... we just exported this stuff to Europe a few weeks ago

 

[deleted927028]

I’m just saying that you can’t blame companies for taking advantage of the government if they are willing to pay for it

Basically you are saying that the companies don’t have to have shame. Isn’t it? If your life is in danger and the only available doctor demands everything you have to save your life, will your stand be the same? Will you approve it?

 

[deleted927028]

thats exactly what I was saying... we aren’t just price gouging ourselves... we just exported this stuff to Europe a few weeks ago

Europeans would not have paid this much. They are stupids like us. They have price controls on every essential thing and service.

 

[deleted927028]

Europeans would not have paid this much. They are stupids like us. They have price controls on every essential thing and service.

Typo. They are not stupids

 

[deleted480308]

Basically you are saying that the companies don’t have to have shame. Isn’t it? If your life is in danger and the only available doctor demands everything you have to save your life, will your stand be the same? Will you approve it?

as opposed to imprison or shoot the doctor for not accepting whatever I tell them they have to accept? yes, my stance is the same

If you want something from someone, you agree to a price voluntarily or you don't get what you want

 

[deleted927028]

as opposed to imprison or shoot the doctor for not accepting whatever I tell them they have to accept? yes, my stance is the same

If you want something from someone, you agree to a price voluntarily or you don't get what you want

If I were the doctor, I would not charge even a dollar more than what I would charge in normal circumstances. But , my belief seems to be different.

 

[deleted927028]

as opposed to imprison or shoot the doctor for not accepting whatever I tell them they have to accept? yes, my stance is the same

If you want something from someone, you agree to a price voluntarily or you don't get what you want

I haven’t heard about anyone getting imprisoned or shot in Canada, Europe, Australia, India or any other countries for not accepting a negotiated fair price. In fact they are all very happy to do so. You have to give up all your wild imaginations and see things in a balanced way.

 

[deleted480308]

If I were the doctor, I would not charge even a dollar more than what I would charge in normal circumstances. But , my belief seems to be different.

what you would do voluntarily is different than you asking if I would want the govt to force someone to do something against their will

I haven’t heard about anyone getting imprisoned or shot in Canada, Europe, Australia, India or any other countries for not accepting a negotiated fair price. In fact they are all very happy to do so. You have to give up all your wild imaginations and see things in a balanced way.

All of those places with price controls are absolutely threatening jail against anyone who violates your price controls....and jail is enforced at gunpoint

 

[deleted927028]

what you would do voluntarily is different than you asking if I would want the govt to force someone to do something against their will



All of those places with price controls are absolutely threatening jail against anyone who violates your price controls....and jail is enforced at gunpoint

There is nothing wrong in shooting or jailing the people who demands 15 times the usual price for life saving essential things when people die like flies. This is exactly why it is foolish to surrender all controls over everything to private vultures and beg them for fairness. The government or the country should not be under the thumbs of profit hungry private people . The government should take over all aspects of healthcare and the net cost won’t be even 10% of what we spend now. But when most of the people are gullible and ignorant, it will never materialize.

 

[deleted480308]

There is nothing wrong in shooting or jailing the people who demands 15 times the usual price for life saving essential things when people die like flies. This is exactly why it is foolish to surrender all controls over everything to private vultures and beg them for fairness. The government or the country should not be under the thumbs of profit hungry private people . The government should take over all aspects of healthcare and the net cost won’t be even 10% of what we spend now. But when most of the people are gullible and ignorant, it will never materialize.

At least now you are on the record

 

[VincentAdultman]

There is nothing wrong in shooting or jailing the people who demands 15 times the usual price for life saving essential things when people die like flies. This is exactly why it is foolish to surrender all controls over everything to private vultures and beg them for fairness. The government or the country should not be under the thumbs of profit hungry private people . The government should take over all aspects of healthcare and the net cost won’t be even 10% of what we spend now. But when most of the people are gullible and ignorant, it will never materialize.

Ten percent huh

 

[Cornfed101]

the net cost won’t be even 10% of what we spend now.

Can I see your math on this? I’m not sure how you’re getting 90% savings having the government take over. I could see some cost savings from administrative burden, but I can also see much longer wait times (hello DMV).

 

[deleted927028]

We call ourselves the greatest country ever, yet at this worst time, we have put ourselves in the position to beg third world countries for a generic medicine which has been in use for 80 years, to save our citizens’ lives. Are we not capable of manufacturing a generic medicine? What is wrong with us? When are we going to learn? Our government spends hundreds of billions of dollars every year in medical research but they don’t have a single plant to manufacture the medicine. Why? Because, it is socialism and communism. So what is capitalism and freedom? It is selling the patents of inventions resulting from those hundreds of billions to private vultures for peanuts and let them loot our own citizens hundreds times over. Mind you, the hundreds of billions of dollars are theirs too. Why this is happening? Because we have brainwashed everyone to believe this is the real freedom and best thing for them.

private vultures won’t spend time on manufacturing generic medicine because they can steal only limited money by them. We won’t allow/demand our government to manufacture them because we have been fooled to believe that it is socialism and communism. That’s why we are begging third world countries for a generic medicine after having put a man on the moon 50 years ago. No wonder, the entire world is laughing at us seeing how stupid we are in handling this pandemic. But no one cares, because for everyone is fooled every day to believe that we are the best country in the world.

 

[deleted927028]

Can I see your math on this? I’m not sure how you’re getting 90% savings having the government take over. I could see some cost savings from administrative burden, but I can also see much longer wait times (hello DMV).

I don’t see you asking the government or the private vultures for the math why we have been charged 15 times over for the medical equipment even in this toughest time . Why? Because you identify yourself with those vultures. When your guys do something atrocious, it is ok with you and you will even defend them. But you are asking me for the math. No matter what I say, nothing will move you an inch. You have to learn by yourself, then only it will stick. Google and some common sense and independent thinking will go a long way. No one taught me anything, I learned it by myself. Let me ask you one thing, when those vultures are happy to charge 15 times in these toughest times, would they be kind and content during normal times? Because no matter how much they charge, we are always ready to roll and lick their boots. I have never seen any American complaining about the increases in yearly premiums, deductibles, copays, drug prices etc. They are ever ready to bend their back as long as it is private guy who is screwing them. But if the government raises the gasoline tax by a cent, all the hell will break lose. Crazy country indeed. Unless we get out of this mentality of sucking up to the private vultures at every opportunity and start asking questions, we cannot learn anything.

 

[Cornfed101]

I don’t see you asking the government or the private vultures for the math why we have been charged 15 times over for the medical equipment even in this toughest time . Why? Because you identify yourself with those vultures. When your guys do something atrocious, it is ok with you and you will even defend them. But you are asking me for the math. No matter what I say, nothing will move you an inch. You have to learn by yourself, then only it will stick. Google and some common sense and independent thinking will go a long way. No one taught me anything, I learned it by myself. Let me ask you one thing, when those vultures are happy to charge 15 times in these toughest times, would they be kind and content during normal times? Because no matter how much they charge, we are always ready to roll and lick their boots. I have never seen any American complaining about the increases in yearly premiums, deductibles, copays, drug prices etc. They are ever ready to bend their back as long as it is private guy who is screwing them. But if the government raises the gasoline tax by a cent, all the hell will break lose. Crazy country indeed. Unless we get out of this mentality of sucking up to the private vultures at every opportunity and start asking questions, we cannot learn anything.

Don’t be ridiculous. I’m not asking you so I can be a jerk. I’m being serious. I believe we are paying more than we should, but 90% savings is an extreme exaggeration and you know it.

Edit: I know things need to change, but I disagree that handing everything over to the government is the best choice. Our government is just very inefficient. I don’t think MFA will make things that much cheaper, and I do think it could make wait times longer while creating additional problems. Medicare and Medicaid are not perfect. In fact, they are far from perfect and they create a great deal of administrative headaches.

 

[deleted480308]

I don’t see you asking the government or the private vultures for the math why we have been charged 15 times over for the medical equipment even in this toughest time . Why? Because you identify yourself with those vultures. When your guys do something atrocious, it is ok with you and you will even defend them. But you are asking me for the math. No matter what I say, nothing will move you an inch. You have to learn by yourself, then only it will stick. Google and some common sense and independent thinking will go a long way. No one taught me anything, I learned it by myself. Let me ask you one thing, when those vultures are happy to charge 15 times in these toughest times, would they be kind and content during normal times? Because no matter how much they charge, we are always ready to roll and lick their boots. I have never seen any American complaining about the increases in yearly premiums, deductibles, copays, drug prices etc. They are ever ready to bend their back as long as it is private guy who is screwing them. But if the government raises the gasoline tax by a cent, all the hell will break lose. Crazy country indeed. Unless we get out of this mentality of sucking up to the private vultures at every opportunity and start asking questions, we cannot learn anything.

I don’t need math from a seller to justify their price. The only thing I need to know there is if I want it that bad, then I buy or I don’t

 

[findoc]

We call ourselves the greatest country ever, yet at this worst time, we have put ourselves in the position to beg third world countries for a generic medicine which has been in use for 80 years, to save our citizens’ lives. Are we not capable of manufacturing a generic medicine? What is wrong with us? When are we going to learn?

Hey, now you sound like Trump! Make America Great Again! Let's bring medical manufacturing back to the U S OF A BABY!!!!

 

[deleted927028]

Hey, now you sound like Trump! Make America Great Again! Let's bring medical manufacturing back to the U S OF A BABY!!!!

Why do you sound as if it is bad thing? I am not a fan of Trump, but I don’t oppose/critize everything he does/says blindly. I agree with him on TPP, illegal immigration control, ending trade policies that affect American workers and his current stand on exploring the use of hydroxychloroquine to save lives. I don’t support his foolish stand on global warming, tax cuts, sabotaging Obamacare etc.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

No wonder, the entire world is laughing at us seeing how stupid we are in handling this pandemic.

Yeah Spain and Italy are really laughing.

 

[findoc]

Who wants to take a guess as to which country will come up with the best vaccine/treatment/prevention mechanism for COVID19?

 

[VincentAdultman]

Germany?

 

[Lawpy]

Well the good thing is we don't have to worry about this for at least a few years now