Thoughts?

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Gooble

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Hello,

So I'm about to turn 36, am a licensed attorney, and have been working as a federal agent/US Diplomat for the better part of the last decade. I've always wanted to become a doctor, and I have looked at this route before, but always got nervous/scared and ended up doing something else (you can see from my profile I've been around a bit). Now, I have kids, a wife, and responsibilities, but I also have some money saved up. I have been thinking more and more about going for it, but am still nervous.

My current plan is to apply to Bryn Mawr and Goucher as they seem to be the most successful Post Bac programs, and if I get in then go for it. That said, a) are my nuts; b) are my missing any accelerated programs with strong success rates?

Any information/advice/experiences are appreciated.

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No, you're not nuts. That's why we have a forum for people who are nontrad.
We have so many people who are in so many different careers and decide what they have always wanted was to be a doc.

One this is for certain...you have to want to do it enough that you aren't scared of it. It is a commitment.
As said many times before, you have to be willing to relinquish control over where you live.

The following is a thread from a week or so ago explaining the same sort of idea to another member. It also goes through other threads for encouragement:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/am-i-out-of-my-mind.1220363/

Best of luck to you!
 
Thanks. He was 30 and a Microbiologist. Seems like an easier leap in many ways. Useful information regardless. Thanks.
 
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Thanks. If I can get into Goucher or Bryn Mawr, then I think it is worth going for it. However, I hear those are some damn difficult programs to get into, so we shall see.... I'm not overly optimistic based on preliminary research.
 
The advantage of Groucher and Bryn Mawr are 1) low washout rates, ostensibly because of good instruction, counseling, and fair grading and b) high link rates. Linking is huge because it saves the gap year, which has value of about $250k pretax.

Most other formal postbacs...I'd think 2, 3, 4, 5 times about.

Don't discount informal postbacs, lots of success stories here with informal postbacs.


For me to give up my current position, it would have to be for an all out attempt at making this work and a program with a track record of success. I travel too much to consider a do-it-yourself type of program. It really will come down to whether I can get into the competitive ones.
 
Are there any other one year programs worth looking at?


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HES places around 90% of those who qualify for their committee letter into MD/DO programs.

That said, it is a "bloodbath" environment as opposed to the supportive environment you will find at Groucher and Bryn Mawr.

Columbia has an 18 month program, but its about 120k all-in. Also bloodbath.

So are there any other supportive environments with high rates of success, or just the two?
 
Guessing that's it?

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I know several people who completed informal/self-directed programs at CC's or state schools, paying less than $10,000 total, who are now attending CWRU, SUNY, Temple, etc. I think it's nuts to pay the extravagant fees of "formal" programs.

At a CC/state school, you can take night courses, day courses, etc., affording you a schedule that is more forgiving of your situation. For heavens sake, I have a couple of advanced degrees and I am less debt than a typical 2nd year postbac student. Moreover, I have taken the majority of my pre-req's at CC's and no one has brought it up thus far at any of my interviews.

Your competency will be revealed on the MCAT, and after all is said and done, you are responsible for that competency, not your teachers or a postbac program. If you want to go into debt, by all means, go for it. If you are interested or intrigued by what I am saying, PM me for more information. But for the love of whoever you worship, think about it.

Purchasing a Ferrari is great, but a Honda can still get you to where you want to go.
 
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For me the main thing is I need to try to get it all done in a year and if possible, go for a linkage. I'm not getting any younger.

I will PM you. I wouldn't need loans for a post bac, but that doesn't mean I want to waste money unnecessarily either. I hear ya on the honda comment.
 
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For me the main thing is I need to try to get it all done in a year and if possible, go for a linkage. I'm not getting any younger.

I will PM you. I wouldn't need loans for a post bac, but that doesn't mean I want to waste money unnecessarily either. I hear ya on the honda comment.

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The most common strategic error I see in the preparation for a medical school application is favoring haste over quality.
 
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The most common strategic error I see in the preparation for a medical school application is favoring haste over quality.
But there are plenty of one year programs that have a track record of success. We aren't all 25 (or even 30). I don't think looking for the most efficient way from A to B is hasty.
 
But there are plenty of one year programs that have a track record of success. We aren't all 25 (or even 30). I don't think looking for the most efficient way from A to B is hasty.
There is nothing wrong with efficiency, but you won't have the grades from one of these programs on your transcript until the year after completion. Rushing the MCAT is also likely to result in a blemish.
 
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So then how to linkages work out for some? I'm open to suggestions.

I am just not prepared to leave a well paying, stable career to spend 2+ years doing prereqs. Either I make it or I don't.

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So then how to linkages work out for some? I'm open to suggestions.

I am just not prepared to leave a well paying, stable career to spend 2+ years doing prereqs. Either I make it or I don't.

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Also keep in mind that although some of these programs may boast a 98% acceptance rating, they only take those who are destined for entry (the best of the best). More importantly, people fail out...explaining the 98% medical school acceptance rating.

You have a great paying job. Night classes (i.e. self-guided), as I said earlier, are a great option. If you are highly motivated (and it seems like you don't want to take your time, unfortunately) you can finish in 12-15 months.

Lastly - never rush the MCAT. I've met incredible students who have had their posteriors handed to them. Although there are people who can ace it relatively quickly, those are the minority (and if you think you can be the minority, all the power to you).
 
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So they can skew numbers by not counting dropouts? What a scam.

Good advice re: MCAT.

Part time isn't an option for me my employment has me either living abroad or traveling abroad constantly. Otherwise, that is the way I would go.

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So they can skew numbers by not counting dropouts? What a scam.

Good advice re: MCAT.

Part time isn't an option for me my employment has me either living abroad or traveling abroad constantly. Otherwise, that is the way I would go.

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It's the psychology of 'framing'. 90% lean sounds much better than 10% fat.
 
So then how to linkages work out for some? I'm open to suggestions.

I am just not prepared to leave a well paying, stable career to spend 2+ years doing prereqs. Either I make it or I don't.

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According to the Goucher website, about a third of their class of 32 gets a "linkage" acceptance.
That's a very small number of a very small number...
 
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Statistically speaking that is definitely a long shot, but some chance is better than none.

I graduated top of my class from an Ivy League law school, law review, etc.... Not that this is the same, but I don't intend to fail either.

I remain open to any mechanism that allows me to get the pre reqs as possible. I just prefer something with a proven record of success since I would be walking away from a comfortable situation with a family to consider as well.
 
Statistically speaking that is definitely a long shot, but some chance is better than none.

I graduated top of my class from an Ivy League law school, law review, etc.... Not that this is the same, but I don't intend to fail either.

I remain open to any mechanism that allows me to get the pre reqs as possible. I just prefer something with a proven record of success since I would be walking away from a comfortable situation with a family to consider as well.
There are many ways to achieve success in this process.
They all contain a compelling story that exemplifies the core competencies, evidence of academic excellence in the sciences and a well-executed application plan.
It was nothing like applying to law school.
 
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Here is a question- if a career changer doesn't wind up in medical school, what are the options with that year or two of premed courses?
 
Very little, actually. Teaching, maybe. A job in the Bio sciences will require lab skills. These are best aquire in a research program. But these are not ideal for med school applicants.

I strongly recommend reading all of DrMidlife 's posts

Here is a question- if a career changer doesn't wind up in medical school, what are the options with that year or two of premed courses?
 
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Here is a question- if a career changer doesn't wind up in medical school, what are the options with that year or two of premed courses?

You go back to being a lawyer. With your background, I'm assuming you'd find a way to make that work. That's the upside of the homemade night school post bach route in that you don't give up the day job. It seems that's not a possibility with your job though.
 
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If you're looking to career switch, you can pick any two of the three options in a postbac route: safe, convenient, cheap. But you can't have all three, and if you do the formal postbacs, you'd probably only have the convenience factor without the safety or cheapness. That's why DIY postbacs are so popular on this board: they're safer because you can still continue to work while you complete your prereqs, and they're cheaper, albeit less convenient because they take longer.

I would advise you to do some serious soul-searching and think about how committed you are to a career in medicine. "Always wanted to be a doctor" doesn't mean much of anything if you're thinking about it like a childhood fantasy. And along the lines of things to consider, if you're serious enough about med school to give up your job and do a FT post-bac, why are you not serious enough about it it give up your job, take a different job that is more 9-5, and work your way through a DIY post bac at night PT? Not saying you should or must pick this option, but why won't you even consider it when you say you are open to the idea of leaving your career altogether? Is it not "safer" to do this than to give up all paid work altogether, and take the chance of finishing a formal postbac with no med school acceptance AND no job?

Just trying to broaden your perspective here; again, there's no one right answer for everyone. Maybe you will ultimately decide that the formal postbac is the right path for you. But life (and medicine) are full of shades of gray. Flexibility and creativity in problem solving will get you a lot farther than this kind of all-or-nothing approach you are currently holding on to. You can still (and IMO should) be open to considering and exploring other options even if you don't ultimately choose to take them.
 
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If you're looking to career switch, you can pick any two of the three options in a postbac route: safe, convenient, cheap. But you can't have all three, and if you do the formal postbacs, you'd probably only have the convenience factor without the safety or cheapness. That's why DIY postbacs are so popular on this board: they're safer because you can still continue to work while you complete your prereqs, and they're cheaper, albeit less convenient because they take longer.

I would advise you to do some serious soul-searching and think about how committed you are to a career in medicine. "Always wanted to be a doctor" doesn't mean much of anything if you're thinking about it like a childhood fantasy. And along the lines of things to consider, if you're serious enough about med school to give up your job and do a FT post-bac, why are you not serious enough about it it give up your job, take a different job that is more 9-5, and work your way through a DIY post bac at night PT? Not saying you should or must pick this option, but why won't you even consider it when you say you are open to the idea of leaving your career altogether? Is it not "safer" to do this than to give up all paid work altogether, and take the chance of finishing a formal postbac with no med school acceptance AND no job?

Just trying to broaden your perspective here; again, there's no one right answer for everyone. Maybe you will ultimately decide that the formal postbac is the right path for you. But life (and medicine) are full of shades of gray. Flexibility and creativity in problem solving will get you a lot farther than this kind of all-or-nothing approach you are currently holding on to. You can still (and IMO should) be open to considering and exploring other options even if you don't ultimately choose to take them.


Thanks for the note. I appreciate it. I've also considered these options for some time. This didn't just happen overnight. I've had a breadth of overseas medical experience, am a combat medic, and didn't just decide this on a whim. I guess I should give more details up front, but I don't like to reveal too much on an open forum.

Not everyone has the option of working 9-5. My career/profession simply doesn't. If I have to quit my job anyway, I'm not going to quit and take some random 9-5 position that does nothing but create stress while trying to study. As I said initially, I have the money to get this done in a year. I simply was looking for all options outside of Bryn Mawr and Goucher that allow this.

It seems the players are:
1) Byrn Mawr;
2) Goucher;
3) JHU (competitive class potentially?);
4) Scripps; and
5) UVA.

If I'm missing any organized, one-year programs, please let me know.
 
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What about becoming a nurse practitioner? Do these programs have similar prereqs if things didn't pan out?
 
You have to already be a nurse to become a nurse practitioner.
You can become a PA de novo, though.
I've seen some accelerated NP programs out there.

What are the major differences?
 
Are there accelerated programs for nurse anesthesia?
 
That doesnt answer whether there are accelerated programs.
 
That doesnt answer whether there are accelerated programs.
I don't think there are. Back when I was looking into it, it seemed like that was a very long path as well.
 
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That doesnt answer whether there are accelerated programs.

I don't think there are any accelerated CRNA programs. There are accelerated BSN programs 12-15 months for students with prior bachelor's degrees and standard BCPM pre-reqs. But the real hurdle is ICU (sometimes ER) RN experience. Those jobs are hard to get right out of nursing school. Some of the big programs hire ICU nurses into residencies but those may have 1000 applications for 100 residency openings, of which 2-5 may be ICU. Some but not all CRNA programs allow nurses with ER experience to apply but ER jobs are also hard to get for new nurses.

Check allnurses message board and perhaps ask there. If anyone would know of an accelerated program they would

PA might be quicker.
 
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I don't think there are any accelerated CRNA programs. There are accelerated BSN programs 12-15 months for students with prior bachelor's degrees and standard BCPM pre-reqs. But the real hurdle is ICU (sometimes ER) RN experience. Those jobs are hard to get right out of nursing school. Some of the big programs hire ICU nurses into residencies but those may have 1000 applications for 100 residency openings, of which 2-5 may be ICU. Some but not all CRNA programs allow nurses with ER experience to apply but ER jobs are also hard to get for new nurses.

Check allnurses message board and perhaps ask there. If anyone would know of an accelerated program they would

PA might be quicker.
Yeah, I don't think PA brings the level of autonomy I would want.

Maybe an ER NP?
 
Yeah, I don't think PA brings the level of autonomy I would want.

Maybe an ER NP?

There are people that have posted here that ER NPs don't handle more advanced trauma cases (on a par with MDs) but handle the strep throat, UTI, sprained ankles that turn up in the ER. Noble work, obviously, but not what you may be looking for. NPs have, as I understand it (not an expert) very little autonomy in the ER.
 
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It sounds like you want to get into medicine as quickly as possible but with as much autonomy as possible. You won't get what you want from mid level programs.

CRNAs work independently in many areas, but there's no short cut. NPs can work independently in many areas too, but their programs are a joke. I have an NP friend who just quit her clinic job and went back to being an RN at her old job because she realized her FNP program drastically underprepared her to be a PCP.

PAs get a significant amount of medical training in a short period. They are still not on the level of a physician, but their practice model usually provides the opportunity to have a safety net while they continue to learn on the job. PAs in primary care can have a lot of autonomy within their practice, if that's your thing. In the ED, I believe it's similar to NPs in that they mostly see fast track stuff (which, no offense to PAs, but that's probably how it should be--if a PA is equivalent to an MD/DO, why do we have both?).

Medicine is a long-term game. I'm 32, and I'm applying for a postbac program where I'll start next fall and apply the year after, putting me at 35 when I start med school. But it is what it is. I know a few people who went to med school at 40 and are happy attendings now.

Last thing: I'm sure you're smart if you went to a top law school, but it's not the same. All the JD-to-MD or MD/JD folks I know said law school was cake compared to med school.
 
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1) Byrn Mawr;
2) Goucher;
3) JHU (competitive class potentially?);
4) Scripps; and
5) UVA.

If I'm missing any organized, one-year programs, please let me know.

JHU is probably the most competitive of all the programs you just listed (although the top-3 are equally selective). JHU offers potential linkage into its own med school...and in case you were unaware, JHU is arguably one of the top 3 med schools in the country, if not the best. In other words, they accept post-bacc students that they would be comfortable ultimately admitting into their med school.

You sound like an excellent candidate, but just be aware that you're applying alongside post-bacc students who have a demonstrated interest in medicine, exemplified through volunteering and shadowing. Here's some other formal post-bacc programs with at least 1 med school linkage (may be 1 or 2 years total):

Bennington
Tufts
Temple
U Vermont

Of course if you're not worried about linkages, doing a post-bacc at the school you'd ultimately like to apply to is a good idea as well. You get to know faculty and are in close proximity to decision-makers:

UC Boulder
U Florida
UCSF
 
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