Timeline / Calm my anxiety!

[akuko2]

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Hey guys so I am applying for the AF HPSP program and will begin medschool August 1st. I just went to MEPS last Friday and the doc said I needed to get a checkup with a private doc about an issue that turned out to be non-disqualifying. My recruiter said he submitted my private docs notes and is waiting on the CMO to approve them. I'm not worried about that, but what does concern me is being able to secure a scholarship before I begin med-school. I have heard that it takes many months from going to MEPS to actually getting the scholarship and I don't want to miss out. I have been accepted to an MD school as well as have a 3.84 GPA and 34 MCAT score which my recruiter told me means I automatically earn a scholarship if all the slots are not full by the time my documents are sent in.

So to make a long story short, how long did it take y'all from MEPS until being awarded the HPSP scholarship? And will it be different for me, because I am applying after already being accepted?

 

[WernickeDO]

I think my turn around was about 2 months from MEPS to signing the contract. And that was me still being in the HPSP application process. I would imagine it would be quicker for you if you are already accepted and your condition is non-DQ.

Is it too late to try to talk you out of HPSP?

 

[akuko2]

I mean my mind is very set, but im open to listening.

 

[WernickeDO]

If you have read enough on this forum and considered the pros and cons of HPSP, there's probably not much I can offer you that will change your mind at this state. I have the opinion that pre-meds are not in a position to make a legally binding decision regarding their medical career before they have even had med school orientation. It is impossible for young (and not so young) men and women to predict where you will be at from a personal or professional level at this time in your career. In the time between signing the contract and then paying the piper, you may meet a new spouse, have a child, decide you want to supervise clinical trials, go for a specialty that is undermanned or overly competitive in the military, live in a certain part of the country, or fall in love with a civilian program.

I joined because I wanted to serve my country as a doctor. My error was assuming that the emphasis would be on "doctor". This is not always the case in the military, as you will be considered an officer and a leader first, and a physician as a very distant second. Most people are satisfied enough with HPSP but you would do well to consider the negative opinions on this forum and ask yourself if it is worth the risk of putting your career on hold.

 

[akuko2]

Thank you for the advice man. I have tried to read the forumns as extensively as possible as well as ask others who have done or are currently doing the HPSP program. For me there are a few reasons why I'm making this decision. First I'd like to serve my country, my dad came here with almost nothing and was able to provide me with the oppertunity to go to a great university, working with that I have earned a spot in medical school. my fiancee has a similar story, and is now a nursing student. I'd like to do something to serve the country that provided us with all these oppurtunities. My fiancee is totally onboard and willing to bear with whatever commitment that military life entails. Also I am a very financially conservative person; I am going to attend one of the most expensive MD schools in the nation, and can not justify borrowing so much especially when the future of physician compensation is uncertain with the younger generation pushing for a more socialized system of medicine. I HATE being in debt and would rather serve my country debt free than serve the banks for the majority of my lifetime.

 

[TheEarDoc]

If you have read enough on this forum and considered the pros and cons of HPSP, there's probably not much I can offer you that will change your mind at this state. I have the opinion that pre-meds are not in a position to make a legally binding decision regarding their medical career before they have even had med school orientation. It is impossible for young (and not so young) men and women to predict where you will be at from a personal or professional level at this time in your career. In the time between signing the contract and then paying the piper, you may meet a new spouse, have a child, decide you want to supervise clinical trials, go for a specialty that is undermanned or overly competitive in the military, live in a certain part of the country, or fall in love with a civilian program.

I joined because I wanted to serve my country as a doctor. My error was assuming that the emphasis would be on "doctor". This is not always the case in the military, as you will be considered an officer and a leader first, and a physician as a very distant second. Most people are satisfied enough with HPSP but you would do well to consider the negative opinions on this forum and ask yourself if it is worth the risk of putting your career on hold.

I will second the above.

I was set to do this and backed out because I decided I did not want Uncle Sam controlling me so much when I had no clue what I wanted to do. I am glad I did. I chose a totally different career. Then I was in the process of joining with my current occupation and then I met my current spouse. It totally changed my perspective. So I did the next best thing; I took my degree and skill set and went to work at the VA to serve veterans. Now I am in the process of joining the Reserves because I still want to serve, but I don't want to be full time active duty.

I have looked at the pros and cons and realize I will be an officer first with more administrative duties than clinical duties (which I am OK with since I have a civilian job that gives me enough clinical work and I've had so many per diem gigs that I have done about all you can do in my career except for work for a vendor) and could be deployed, but I am doing it to serve not to get any schooling funded.

I am glad I did not do medical school and even more glad I did not do the HPSP as I would have been miserable not going into the specialties I knew I wanted to be in.

 

[WernickeDO]

Thank you for the advice man. I have tried to read the forumns as extensively as possible as well as ask others who have done or are currently doing the HPSP program. For me there are a few reasons why I'm making this decision. First I'd like to serve my country, my dad came here with almost nothing and was able to provide me with the oppertunity to go to a great university, working with that I have earned a spot in medical school. my fiancee has a similar story, and is now a nursing student. I'd like to do something to serve the country that provided us with all these oppurtunities. My fiancee is totally onboard and willing to bear with whatever commitment that military life entails. Also I am a very financially conservative person; I am going to attend one of the most expensive MD schools in the nation, and can not justify borrowing so much especially when the future of physician compensation is uncertain with the younger generation pushing for a more socialized system of medicine. I HATE being in debt and would rather serve my country debt free than serve the banks for the majority of my lifetime.

I hear you, my motivations were similar. Just be prepared to serve your country by serving the needs of the AF, which may need to park you at a desk and do paperwork for two years. It's great to have a supportive spouse but you are still discussing potential moves/deployments that may be 8+ years into the future. Your spouse needs to be okay with changing job locations and being on their own while you're deployed. Best of luck to you both in whatever you decide.

 

[akuko2]

I will second the above.

I was set to do this and backed out because I decided I did not want Uncle Sam controlling me so much when I had no clue what I wanted to do. I am glad I did. I chose a totally different career. Then I was in the process of joining with my current occupation and then I met my current spouse. It totally changed my perspective. So I did the next best thing; I took my degree and skill set and went to work at the VA to serve veterans. Now I am in the process of joining the Reserves because I still want to serve, but I don't want to be full time active duty.

I have looked at the pros and cons and realize I will be an officer first with more administrative duties than clinical duties (which I am OK with since I have a civilian job that gives me enough clinical work and I've had so many per diem gigs that I have done about all you can do in my career except for work for a vendor) and could be deployed, but I am doing it to serve not to get any schooling funded.

I am glad I did not do medical school and even more glad I did not do the HPSP as I would have been miserable not going into the specialties I knew I wanted to be in.

I'm sure I want to be a physician, and with the cost of the school im going to, its going to basically makes it financially impossible to switch when I begin, so that decision has been made. I have wanted to serve in the Air Force since I was younger, but when I became interested in medicine in high school I never thought I would be able to do both until I heard about HPSP.

 

[idq1i]

I have wanted to serve in the Air Force since I was younger,

How exactly do you define "serve"?

I wanted to serve too. However, I have found my last 4 years as a battle against a gigantic inept bureaucracy dead-set on keeping everything status quo while changing labels on broken sub-systems with changes in leadership at the top. No one at the very top has the will to really fix what's broken - incompetent staff protected by collective bargaining agreements and with near complete protection from termination for any reason, mid-levels practicing independently, standards grossly out of date with current CPGs, soldiers gaming the medical disability system and getting away with it while sucking the system dry, local command only using their assignment to polish up their OER to move on to bigger things in better locations, incompetent physicians years removed from clinical practice who hide behind their rank, etc. If you fight for change, you are internally labelled as a troublemaker and are shunned, sent to lousy locations, kept off important committees, etc.

The desire to serve, if sincere, is noble. Based on your posts, I am not sure how much of your desire is in fact financially driven. I am not calling you insincere, but you may want to sit down and think about this question: If your med school became magically free, would you still join? If yes, go on and sign up. If not, heed the voices of posters above, and really, really, consider your decision. You are signing away up to a 6 year chunk of your life up to 10 years from today. Do you really know about what's going to happen in 10 years? Will your wife want to pick and move to the middle of nowhere? Will she present you with a divorce decree because your moves have ruined her career? Will you have to pull your children out of school every 2 years to move at the whim of the DoD? Will we be involved in WW3 with Chinarussiairansyriaisis?

 

[pgg]

Chinarussiairansyriaisis?

That sounds like a really bad parasitic infection.

 

[dr zaius]

That sounds like a really bad parasitic infection.

I picked it up on holiday in Thailand after making a few bad decisions. Fortunately with the right antibiotic it's curable.

 

[Clap MD]

How exactly do you define "serve"?
keeping everything status quo while changing labels on broken sub-systems with changes in leadership at the top

painfully accurate

I picked it up on holiday in Thailand after making a few bad decisions. Fortunately with the right antibiotic it's curable.

there are worse surprises to get while TDY in Thailand.

 

[TheEarDoc]

painfully accurate



there are worse surprises to get while TDY in Thailand.

Clap is that how you got your name? 🙂

 

[Clap MD]

Clap is that how you got your name? 🙂

Haha nah, I was referring to their booming plastic surgery industry down there. sts.

 

[TheEarDoc]

Haha nah, I was referring to their booming plastic surgery industry down there. sts.

Well as they say in the Hangover II why do you think they call it Bangkok?

With all the "different" folks in Thailand you would think if the military were really serious about treating the transgender population that they would be forcing some of the GMO folks into Bangkok? They could get some real education there....

 

[Mansamusa]

Op, if I don't get accepted anywhere cheaper, I will likely end up at the school you are heading to.

The cost is insane. If I do a 3yr residency, I will finish with $510K in debt (and $30K/yr of interest growing). $600K if I do a 7yr residency (this is assuming that I take out less than the estimated coa and a 7% interest rate even though grad PLUS loans' interest rates range from 4.6-10.5%). Would people here really say that giving up 6 yrs post-residency to the army is not worth saving 19 yrs or more on loan payments?

Right now I'm at the point where I'm deciding whether or not that price is worth going to med school at all. Would you guys chose not to go into medicine over going into army medicine?

 

[pgg]

I would not borrow $600,000 to go to medical school.

 

[68PGunner]

Join the reserve and have about 250k erased.

 

[68PGunner]

Join the reserve and have about 250k erased.

I'm dead serious about this advice. You're not going to be in some dump for 9-15 months when you're in the Reserve. Uncle Sam will get his pound of flesh from you when he sends you to Syria for 15 months while paying you $9K/month to practice medicine there. From my calculation, you will get paid about $15-18K/month as a civilian attending physician in USA. The market salary for a deployed doc in Syria should be about $30-40K/month. There's a huge difference.

 

[j4pac]

How exactly do you define "serve"?

I wanted to serve too. However, I have found my last 4 years as a battle against a gigantic inept bureaucracy dead-set on keeping everything status quo while changing labels on broken sub-systems with changes in leadership at the top. No one at the very top has the will to really fix what's broken - incompetent staff protected by collective bargaining agreements and with near complete protection from termination for any reason, mid-levels practicing independently, standards grossly out of date with current CPGs, soldiers gaming the medical disability system and getting away with it while sucking the system dry, local command only using their assignment to polish up their OER to move on to bigger things in better locations, incompetent physicians years removed from clinical practice who hide behind their rank, etc. If you fight for change, you are internally labelled as a troublemaker and are shunned, sent to lousy locations, kept off important committees, etc.

The desire to serve, if sincere, is noble. Based on your posts, I am not sure how much of your desire is in fact financially driven. I am not calling you insincere, but you may want to sit down and think about this question: If your med school became magically free, would you still join? If yes, go on and sign up. If not, heed the voices of posters above, and really, really, consider your decision. You are signing away up to a 6 year chunk of your life up to 10 years from today. Do you really know about what's going to happen in 10 years? Will your wife want to pick and move to the middle of nowhere? Will she present you with a divorce decree because your moves have ruined her career? Will you have to pull your children out of school every 2 years to move at the whim of the DoD? Will we be involved in WW3 with Chinarussiairansyriaisis?

 

[j4pac]

I would not borrow $600,000 to go to medical school.

I'm wondering why anyone would go to that school. Was it the only school they were accepted to? I don't care if the school is the best in the world...it's not worth it.

 

[Mansamusa]

I'm wondering why anyone would go to that school. Was it the only school they were accepted to? I don't care if the school is the best in the world...it's not worth it.

I've actually been accepted to 6 schools and they all have a similar cost. Most people consider the "cost" of med school without carrying out the calculations of what that would look like after residency.

These six schools would all put me at $355K with no interest included. Even my state school (NY) would put me at $320K.

Eidt: Harvard would put me at $385-390K pre-interest since I have $30K in undergrad debt

 

[TheEarDoc]

I've actually been accepted to 6 schools and they all have a similar cost. Most people consider the "cost" of med school without carrying out the calculations of what that would look like after residency.

These six schools would all put me at $355K with no interest included. Even my state school (NY) would put me at $320K.

Eidt: Harvard would put me at $385-390K pre-interest since I have $30K in undergrad debt

I have to ask what specialty are you going into?

 

[Mansamusa]

I have to ask what specialty are you going into?

I could see myself being interested in many different fields. But if I was taking on all this debt, I don't think I would allow those interests to be nonsurgical (I am actually strongly interested in surgery or else I would go PA or NP or definitely army). I will probably end up gunning for neuro, uro, or ortho

 

[j4pac]

I've actually been accepted to 6 schools and they all have a similar cost. Most people consider the "cost" of med school without carrying out the calculations of what that would look like after residency.

These six schools would all put me at $355K with no interest included. Even my state school (NY) would put me at $320K.

Eidt: Harvard would put me at $385-390K pre-interest since I have $30K in undergrad debt

If you have a Harvard acceptance letter...you better have a damn good reason to go military.

 

[akuko2]

I'm wondering why anyone would go to that school. Was it the only school they were accepted to? I don't care if the school is the best in the world...it's not worth it.

I was born and raised in the city, my fiancee is finishing up nursing school in the same city and I am finishing up my undergrad at its undergraduate institution. The student life from the people I have talked to say it is great and they really foster a student centered environment. That and the match list is much better than the other school in my state. I love the school and even applied ED there, but do think it is way too expensive, however I knew I wanted to do HPSP from the get go, so it was not a deciding factor for me.

 

[Mansamusa]

If you have a Harvard acceptance letter...you better have a damn good reason to go military.

Nah, I was just saying that many schools are around the price point of the schools I got into and that the best in the world (Harvard) is actually even more expensive than the school I would be going to.

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

If you have a Harvard acceptance letter...you better have a damn good reason to go military.

Harvard acceptance + Harvard full ride scholarship + HSCP = good reason to go military?

But then again this guy I heard about is also a prior service unique snowflake.

 

[WernickeDO]

Don't forget too that many schools have a student loan forgiveness/tuition waiver if you agree to practice in an underserved area...at one point Cambridge was considered underserved, can't speak to it now.

But the focus here is the concern for paying for medical school. If you join the military for tuition assistance only, you will regret it. The military has NO problem sticking a Harvard educated MD behind a desk to do spreadsheets.

 

[akuko2]

I have considered programs like that, but ultimately HPSP is the way I want to go. My school's program for that commits you to doing a residency in primary care and in order to receive the waver you must sign a contract saying you are going into that field. Serving as a military physician sounds more appealing to me.

 

[WernickeDO]

I have considered programs like that, but ultimately HPSP is the way I want to go. My school's program for that commits you to doing a residency in primary care and in order to receive the waver you must sign a contract saying you are going into that field. Serving as a military physician sounds more appealing to me.

Fair enough, you don't want to pigeonhole yourself into a specialty just to save (a lot of) money. But again, just make sure your decision to go HPSP is not financially motivated. This forum has more than enough fodder to pick through that speaks to that truism.

 

[akuko2]

Fair enough, you don't want to pigeonhole yourself into a specialty just to save (a lot of) money. But again, just make sure your decision to go HPSP is not financially motivated. This forum has more than enough fodder to pick through that speaks to that truism.

Though I really wanted to join the Air Force from the get go, I would be lying if I told you that there is NO financial motivation, but that is only part of the reason for me, in addition to all that I have said before I've also lived in the same city my whole life and am going to medschool there, I would like to see new places.

 

[j4pac]

Though I really wanted to join the Air Force from the get go, I would be lying if I told you that there is NO financial motivation, but that is only part of the reason for me, in addition to all that I have said before I've also lived in the same city my whole life and am going to medschool there, I would like to see new places.

If it is PART of the reason...you are doing it for the wrong reasons. Would you do it if there was no tuition assistance?

 

[akuko2]

What I mean by the last post is I will certainly enjoy the benefit of having my tuition paid, but I would have done it anyways.

 

[notdeadyet]

But the focus here is the concern for paying for medical school. If you join the military for tuition assistance only, you will regret it. The military has NO problem sticking a Harvard educated MD behind a desk to do spreadsheets.

^ This x10.

If your concerns are financial and you're willing to make sacrifices, there are MANY ways to do so that don't involve the military. For many specialties you can earn 2-3x what you make in the military AND get student loan reimbursement that would allow you to pay off your loans quickly.

I'm also raising an eyebrow about the $600K in medical school debt. If anyone is debt adverse, I recommend that they
a) attend a lower cost medical school (yes, I realize that none are cheap)
b) moonlight in residency (schedule permitting) to keep costs low
c) work hard and live like a resident your first few years out of residency
d) choose an employer that offers loan reimbursement plans

DO NOT join the military, particularly HPSP, for the money.

 

[Mansamusa]

I'm also raising an eyebrow about the $600K in medical school debt. If anyone is debt adverse, I recommend that they
a) attend a lower cost medical school (yes, I realize that none are cheap)
b) moonlight in residency (schedule permitting) to keep costs low
c) work hard and live like a resident your first few years out of residency
d) choose an employer that offers loan reimbursement plans

Raising your eyebrow in what way? The school is Tulane and the tuition just reached $60K this year (following the historical increases, it will be 61.5K, 63K, 64.5K the next 3 yrs). With undergrad debt, that will be $285K with just the tuition + $10-15K for loan origination fees over 4yrs + $20K for car and residency apps (and aways if I could squeeze those in) + $50K for room and board= $370K. Capitalizes at 415-430K at graduation and grows by $25K per year of residency (after I make IBR payments). So 7 or 8 yr residency/fellowship training can bring that to $600K.

I also got into a school that would put me at $255K ($55K/yr tuition that has been frozen at that point) for undergrad and tuition, which still puts it at $330-340K

 

[notdeadyet]

Raising your eyebrow in what way? The school is Tulane and the tuition just reached $60K this year (following the historical increases, it will be 61.5K, 63K, 64.5K the next 3 yrs). With undergrad debt, that will be $285K with just the tuition + $10-15K for loan origination fees over 4yrs + $20K for car and residency apps (and aways if I could squeeze those in) + $50K for room and board= $370K. Capitalizes at 415-430K at graduation and grows by $25K per year of residency (after I make IBR payments). So 7 or 8 yr residency/fellowship training can bring that to $600K.

This addresses the confusion. When people talk about "medical school debt," they are usually referring to the medical school loans they leave medical school with. They don't typically forecast out what their debt will be 7 or 8 years down the road, and also don't typically include car loans and the like. This clears it up.

 

[akuko2]

BTW if any HPSP applicant wanted to know my timeline for future reference: I submitted the preliminary forms late January, went to MEPS late February, had my application send to a selection board which I was told I was an automatic select for and heard I was selected mid March. Now (late March) waiting to be commisioned.