TMDSAS Letter of Recommendation

[Bored_Conscious]

I will be applying during the 2021-2022 cycle. Just had a few questions regarding the LOR requirements.

1. On the TMDSAS packet, it says "Three individual letters of evaluation" and it also states that having a "current/former professor that can speak to your academic ability in the sciences" is recommended. To confirm, this means that the 3 LOR evaluators can be anyone correct? I always hear people says two science LOR and one non-science.

2. I was going to get a LOR from my research PI (PhD; never took a class with him, but I am an undergraduate research assistant in his lab), LOR from ICU manager/Charge Nurse, and LOR from my internship supervisor.

• Does my LOR from my research PI count as a professor who can speak to my academic ability in the sciences? Should I try to obtain a LOR from a science professor I took classes with? I got good grades in a lot of my science classes, just don't really feel like any of them could speak greatly of me. Other than, "x student did well in my class. x student consistently showed up to class. etc."
• THIS IS A MAJOR QUESTION: Who should I get a LOR from: my ICU supervisor/manager or an ICU Charge Nurse?
  • ICU Supervisor: Really liked me during the interview process and was the reason why I got hired in the first place. Awesome first impression, but never really got to interact with him since. I'm sure he hears about me as the supervisor, but he doesn't really know me personally, hasn't seem me working personally, etc. I asked a few nurses who I should ask a LOR from and they all say my ICU supervisor. He's a nice dude with some LOR writing experience I'm sure, I just don't know how personally he could write for me.
  • ICU Charge Nurse: She didn't really like me at first, so she wasn't even a consideration. However, as the months has gone by she started to really open up to me and is WAYYY nicer now. She sees me work relatively consistently and knows me on a more personal level than my supervisor. However, I don't really think she has any LOR writing experience which makes me a little bit skeptical.

3. Another MAJOR QUESTION: Currently planning on getting a LOR from my internship supervisor at Special Olympics. I believe he would write me a good LOR based on my work as an intern there and our interactions, however, I was also a volunteer assistant coach with a Special Olympics powerlifting team for around a year before COVID hit. I developed a really unique relationship with one of the athletes on my team and would really like that volunteering side/coaching side of my volunteering experience to be discussed on my LOR. Would it be strange for me to ask my current LOR to reach out to my previous volunteer supervisor to ask him how it was to see me as a volunteer/coach and discuss the relationships I developed during my time there so he could include it in my LOR?

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[Perfect-Karma]

I will be applying during the 2021-2022 cycle. Just had a few questions regarding the LOR requirements.

1. On the TMDSAS packet, it says "Three individual letters of evaluation" and it also states that having a "current/former professor that can speak to your academic ability in the sciences" is recommended. To confirm, this means that the 3 LOR evaluators can be anyone correct? I always hear people says two science LOR and one non-science.

2. I was going to get a LOR from my research PI (PhD; never took a class with him, but I am an undergraduate research assistant in his lab), LOR from ICU manager/Charge Nurse, and LOR from my internship supervisor.

• Does my LOR from my research PI count as a professor who can speak to my academic ability in the sciences? Should I try to obtain a LOR from a science professor I took classes with? I got good grades in a lot of my science classes, just don't really feel like any of them could speak greatly of me. Other than, "x student did well in my class. x student consistently showed up to class. etc."
• THIS IS A MAJOR QUESTION:Who should I get a LOR from: my ICU supervisor/manager or an ICU Charge Nurse?
  • ICU Supervisor: Really liked me during the interview process and was the reason why I got hired in the first place. Awesome first impression, but never really got to interact with him since. I'm sure he hears about me as the supervisor, but he doesn't really know me personally, hasn't seem me working personally, etc. I asked a few nurses who I should ask a LOR from and they all say my ICU supervisor. He's a nice dude with some LOR writing experience I'm sure, I just don't know how personally he could write for me.
  • ICU Charge Nurse: She didn't really like me at first, so she wasn't even a consideration. However, as the months has gone by she started to really open up to me and is WAYYY nicer now. She sees me work relatively consistently and knows me on a more personal level than my supervisor. However, I don't really think she has any LOR writing experience which makes me a little bit skeptical.

3. Another MAJOR QUESTION: Currently planning on getting a LOR from my internship supervisor at Special Olympics. I believe he would write me a good LOR based on my work as an intern there and our interactions, however, I was also a volunteer assistant coach with a Special Olympics powerlifting team for around a year before COVID hit. I developed a really unique relationship with one of the athletes on my team and would really like that volunteering side/coaching side of my volunteering experience to be discussed on my LOR. Would it be strange for me to ask my current LOR to reach out to my previous volunteer supervisor to ask him how it was to see me as a volunteer/coach and discuss the relationships I developed during my time there so he could include it in my LOR?

Hey! Did you get any information on bullet point 1?

 

[NickNaylor]

Many schools have more specific application requirements beyond those that are listed in TMDSAS/AMCAS. You should check the requirements for the individual schools with respect to LORs to see what kinds of letters you will need for your application. The “two science LORs, one non-science LOR” advice is based on the fact that many schools have this requirement. I don’t know off-hand if that’s the case for Texas schools, but schools will generally list their requirements pretty explicitly on their admissions website.

 

[Bored_Conscious]

Hey! Did you get any information on bullet point 1?

I am pretty sure that TX medical schools do not have a LOR writer requirement (2 sci. 1 non. sci.)

I have letters from my Research PI (PhD), Internship Mentor, and ICU manager. I hope that isn't an issue.

@wysdoc According to the TMDSAS handbook, they only require 3 letters. I don't think any schools specify who the letters come from. Could you confirm please?

 

[wysdoc]

I am pretty sure that TX medical schools do not have a LOR writer requirement (2 sci. 1 non. sci.)

I have letters from my Research PI (PhD), Internship Mentor, and ICU manager. I hope that isn't an issue.

@wysdoc According to the TMDSAS handbook, they only require 3 letters. I don't think any schools specify who the letters come from. Could you confirm please?

Science profs and profs in your major (if your major is something else) are preferred, also if you have a lot of research it's best to get one from your PI as you have already done.
A letter from the ICU supervisor would be nice as one letter, because they can comment on your patient skills and work ethic. Not including any letters from professors who have taught you and can comment on your academic abilities will stand out as unusual, and not in a good way.

 

[Bored_Conscious]

Science profs and profs in your major (if your major is something else) are preferred, also if you have a lot of research it's best to get one from your PI as you have already done.
A letter from the ICU supervisor would be nice as one letter, because they can comment on your patient skills and work ethic. Not including any letters from professors who have taught you and can comment on your academic abilities will stand out as unusual, and not in a good way.

Thank you for the response!

The current letters I have are strong (research PI, ICU manager, and Internship mentor), so would it really be such a deficit not to include letters from professors who have taught me? I'd hope that my academic abilities will stand out through my GPA and MCAT score.

Would you say that it would be better to submit the fourth optional letter as a science professor even if it is relatively average?

 

[wysdoc]

Thank you for the response!

The current letters I have are strong (research PI, ICU manager, and Internship mentor), so would it really be such a deficit not to include letters from professors who have taught me? I'd hope that my academic abilities will stand out through my GPA and MCAT score.

Would you say that it would be better to submit the fourth optional letter as a science professor even if it is relatively average?

yes

Also listen to this podcast:

 

[Bored_Conscious]

yes

Also listen to this podcast:

Thank you. I will check that out.

 

[wysdoc]

Also see this AMCAS thread ~*~*~*~*~* Offical Letters of Recommendation Questions Thread 2021-2022 *~*~*~*~*~

 

[Bored_Conscious]

Also see this AMCAS thread ~*~*~*~*~* Offical Letters of Recommendation Questions Thread 2021-2022 *~*~*~*~*~

I have reached out to my immunology professor. Other than a few back and forth we had on email, I haven't been able to establish much of a relationship. However, this is one of the toughest courses in my undergrad and I ended up doing well. I hope she will be able to comment on my ability to do well in a advanced undergraduate/graduate course.

In regards to this, I know the recommended number of letter of recommendation is three and you can send in an optional fourth letter. Will adcom members take a look at all four letters? Lastly, there is a chance that this letter could be rather generic. Would that hinder me in the midst of a generally strong application and three other strong letters?

 

[wysdoc]

I have reached out to my immunology professor. Other than a few back and forth we had on email, I haven't been able to establish much of a relationship. However, this is one of the toughest courses in my undergrad and I ended up doing well. I hope she will be able to comment on my ability to do well in a advanced undergraduate/graduate course.

In regards to this, I know the recommended number of letter of recommendation is three and you can send in an optional fourth letter. Will adcom members take a look at all four letters? Lastly, there is a chance that this letter could be rather generic. Would that hinder me in the midst of a generally strong application and three other strong letters?

I think I, and others, have already answered that question, that it doesn't look good if you have no professor letters.
All 4 letters will be read.

 

[BeMoConsulting]

The purpose of asking for letters of reference is to determine if you are a good fit for their program. Just like a statement or purpose or personal essay, letters of recommendation should show rather than tell. In other words, your referees need to mention specific attributes that they have observed in you and provide context or specific examples of those attributes. They should also mention the unique contributions that you would bring the program, and they do this by describing experiences you have had and the learning that resulted from them. That’s why it is important that your referees know you well so they can speak about your abilities and whether or not you possess the essential qualities that programs are looking for. The skills that you have developed will hopefully align with those that the program values, and in this way, the admissions committee knows if you will be able to contribute to the program and be successful once admitted. So, regardless of whom you end up asking for a letter, make sure they can provide you with a STRONG letter. That’s the key. Best of luck to you!

 

[Bored_Conscious]

I think I, and others, have already answered that question, that it doesn't look good if you have no professor letters.
All 4 letters will be read.

Thank you for your response. I got a response back from my immunology professor and she said the following: "I don’t normally write letters for students who I’ve only known through class, because I can’t provide much information beyond what the schools can see from your transcript. However, if you think it would be helpful to send a letter regarding your academic proficiency in a challenging class, as you’ve indicated, I would be happy to do that. "

@wysdoc What do you think? Do you think this will be satisfactory in checking the box for a science letter of recommendation?

 

[wysdoc]

Thank you for your response. I got a response back from my immunology professor and she said the following: "I don’t normally write letters for students who I’ve only known through class, because I can’t provide much information beyond what the schools can see from your transcript. However, if you think it would be helpful to send a letter regarding your academic proficiency in a challenging class, as you’ve indicated, I would be happy to do that. "

@wysdoc What do you think? Do you think this will be satisfactory in checking the box for a science letter of recommendation?

that sounds like she doesn't really want to write it, so I guess I would vote no 😢

 

[Bored_Conscious]

that sounds like she doesn't really want to write it, so I guess I would vote no 😢

I see. Thanks for the response.
Feeling a little frustrated now.
I'll try reaching out to other professors but don't see much hope.

Would my research PI not count as a professor? (He is a faculty member. Does research and also teaches - PhD. I just never took his course but I help with his research.)

 

[Bored_Conscious]

The purpose of asking for letters of reference is to determine if you are a good fit for their program. Just like a statement or purpose or personal essay, letters of recommendation should show rather than tell. In other words, your referees need to mention specific attributes that they have observed in you and provide context or specific examples of those attributes. They should also mention the unique contributions that you would bring the program, and they do this by describing experiences you have had and the learning that resulted from them. That’s why it is important that your referees know you well so they can speak about your abilities and whether or not you possess the essential qualities that programs are looking for. The skills that you have developed will hopefully align with those that the program values, and in this way, the admissions committee knows if you will be able to contribute to the program and be successful once admitted. So, regardless of whom you end up asking for a letter, make sure they can provide you with a STRONG letter. That’s the key. Best of luck to you!

Thanks for your response.

I know I will not be able to obtain a science professor letter who can write me a strong letter. My current three letters are pretty strong but apparently my research PI letter (Professor: Faculty member with a PhD) does not count as a science letter? Also, some people may not consider exercise physiology as a science anyways. I know Wysdoc recommends me to find a science professor letter of recommendation, however, I don't think I will be able to find a strong letter writer.

Unless my mediocre letter from my immunology professor will do 😕 (Which wysdoc also recommends me to not use.)

 

[wysdoc]

I see. Thanks for the response.
Feeling a little frustrated now.
I'll try reaching out to other professors but don't see much hope.

Would my research PI not count as a professor? (He is a faculty member. Does research and also teaches - PhD. I just never took his course but I help with his research.)

Your research PI should count. Not trying to confuse you, really. I was just trying to make sure you didn’t have all EC letters and no academic based ones.

 

[Bored_Conscious]

Your research PI should count. Not trying to confuse you, really. I was just trying to make sure you didn’t have all EC letters and no academic based ones.

No worries! I should have clarified that my research PI was also a faculty professor. That was my fault.
I will still go forward and try to obtain a LOR from a science professor that taught me directly. However, it is relieving to know that my Research PI should suffice.

Thank you!

 

[la flame]

I know schools outside of Texas are different and many require at least two different science professors LOR. Because of that, this prevented me from applying to many schools (particular DO) because I only had one science professor. Just keep that in mind!

I'm assuming you are a nurse (I'm an RN too!), I would definately get it from the ICU Manager/Director instead of the charge nurse. Charge nurse is literally just a nurse who also does small admin duties like make incoming assignments, discharge/admission paperwork, etc (at least that how it was at my ICU). Not to mention pretty much everyone at my old ICU unit was Charge at least once and I can promise you, no one there had any experience writing professional LORs lol.

Last cycle I got 1 science professor, my old boss and an MD I shadowed to do my three letters; worked out fine for me. Most importantly, try to get at least one science professor and you'll be gucci

 

[Bored_Conscious]

I know schools outside of Texas are different and many require at least two different science professors LOR. Because of that, this prevented me from applying to many schools (particular DO) because I only had one science professor. Just keep that in mind!

I'm assuming you are a nurse (I'm an RN too!), I would definately get it from the ICU Manager/Director instead of the charge nurse. Charge nurse is literally just a nurse who also does small admin duties like make incoming assignments, discharge/admission paperwork, etc (at least that how it was at my ICU). Not to mention pretty much everyone at my old ICU unit was Charge at least once and I can promise you, no one there had any experience writing professional LORs lol.

Last cycle I got 1 science professor, my old boss and an MD I shadowed to do my three letters; worked out fine for me. Most importantly, try to get at least one science professor and you'll be gucci

Actually, not a nurse! I'm a PCT, but I do work with a bunch of nurses 🙂.

I did get a LOR from my ICU manager instead of my charge nurse. Glad that worked out.

Currently waiting to see if I get any response from a science professor I took a course with. However, I am getting a fantastic LOR from an exercise physiology professor (faculty member) who I have never taken a class with. He is also my research PI. Hopefully, this will suffice if I do not have any luck with getting my fourth letter!