To apply or not to apply....

[anavistas]

I have lots of questions and I really don't know what to do at this stage !I appreciate any comments from all of you non_trads,
Like all non_trads that think time is going so fast I think I'm losing time,
I'm right now at graduate school and I'm planning to take chem1,2 and orgo1,2 and biology 2 in summer,I can't take all labs and I've taken these courses befor but being an international student I have to retake them,
So my questions:
_It is really logical to take all these and apply at the end of summer?
_Is it possible to apply befor taking all pre_reqs(some schools say they want it befor matriculation)
_I read in another thread that maybe late applications are in in disadvantage but I still think it's possible,I really don't want to wait for one more year
_Is it possible to apply for PhD,and after 1 year change it to MD/PhD,I'm not sure but I heard of a special program for PhD students...
Waiting for 1 year I'd (probably)have some publications that might help,and I don't have any experience in medical field here.
Do you think it's worth it,I really don't want to risk and get low grads.....
I know you are busy and these questions seems a little bit trollish...I'd love to hear from you...

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[Perrotfish]

Possible, maybe, but definitely a terrible idea. You need to take the prereqs, then the MCAT, then wait for your MCAT scores, and THEN apply. There´s a slight chance you´ll get this done before the very end of the application cycle, but even if you haven´t ruined your GPA taking everything at once and app that late will almost definitely get you rejected. On the off chance you get in you´ll get in to a way worse institution than you deserve. From everything I´ve heard no you can´t start a PhD and switch to MD/PhD, either you have to finish the PhD and then do the MD or you have to apply to a dual MD/PhD program. Generally, I´ve heard, med schools want you to finish whatever education you´re in before applying to their school, so don´t start anything you don´t plan on finishing. Not that it sound like you have any spare time to take a PhD anyway. You´re waiting until 2010. Trust me, it ain´t that long.

Also you shouldn´t be able to take Orgo 1 and 2 at once, Orgo 2 follows Orgo 1.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Slow down. One year is so little in the scheme of things, but if you bomb your post-bacc grades it could take multiple years of classes to recover. Not worth it in my book.

 

[drimpossible]

From my experience, summer classes can be more difficult than classes offered in the Fall and Spring semester. You're generally working with the full semester's amount of material to learn in roughly half the time.

I understand the need for speed, but you don't want to burn yourself out.

 

[flip26]

What is your MCAT?

Do you have clinical experiences in the US (foreign experiences deeply discounted by US med schools)? Have you shadowed US MDs?

What you are proposing looks like a recipe for disaster...I would be extremely surprised if any school would allow you to overload like this in the summer...

I took Chem 1&2, plus labs (total 10 semester hour credits) over a summer - man, that was borderline suicide - doable - but quite intense. I can't imagine doing more than that.

From a practical perspective it frankly isn't possible - a 2 hour lab in summer works out to 4 hours a day - the class was 3 hours a day - not really possible to fit much else into a schedule when you include labs in a summer schedule...there aren't enough hours in the day, and in summer there is rarely more than one section of anything, so chances are there will be major time conflicts with multiple classes...most summer lectures (at my school) were in the AM, labs in the PM...

 

[Weoh]

I'll echo what most have said already-- taking all of those courses in one summer reeeeaally sounds like a bad idea. Unless you are absolutely **** hot with the material already (and by that I mean that you could literally teach the courses better than the professors), I wouldn't advise it. It would really be a bummer to end up doing poorly in those courses because you didn't have enough time to allocate to each class individually. Waiting an extra year might seem like an eternity from this side of things, but it's better to do it right the first time around.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

I'd agree about slowing down on courses & deferring applying for another year for a slightly different reason; even with very clear knowledge of the subjects, one may have to commit extra time based on the instructor's teaching method/priorities; its not worth getting a B in any class due to the volume of courses completed.

I took Gen Chem 1 after completing Gen Chem 2 (A), O-Chem 1&2 (A/B) because that's how it fit into my schedule.. I spent less time on gen chem 1 because the material was familiar, but some test questions covered things like the NAME of the guy who conducted the oil-drop experiement and HOW IT WAS CONDUCTED -- things that to me seemed inconsequential relative to acid/base, "vesper" and the like. For me, a certain number of hours per week were required to refamiliarize myself with the material and learn this instructor's preference for how we thought about it/presented it on a test, even though it is all review. Some courses I've taken have a quiz weekly as well; those tend to focus on things important to an instructor, and extra time often is required to do well on those. (we covered fuel cells in detail in my gen chem 2 class in one quiz, for example)

 

[anavistas]

Thank you all ,I'm really worried about the same things...
I don't have any clinical experience here..
I even haven't taken MCAT and I really don't know how will I do...I'm not sure of anything especially verbal as my native is not english...
I'm worried about the same thing !getting lower grades because you can't put enought time..this semester was already hell for me...research ,grad courses (heavily math based much harder than pre_reqs)...because of all these I was thinking about taking whatever I can take in summer ,I'm afraid of the disaster in the fall or spring ;at least now I have only one thing to study but in fall I'm not sure even I have time or not...I might do poor in my grad courses which is as killing as bad grades in pre_reqs ...
I'm just familiar with these courses taking them years ago...working with some concepts right now,not more.
I have to decide very soon.......
I think it's better to put orgo for fall maybe but gen chem shouldn't be that hard..
How much applying late will be a disadvantage?Isn't it something pre_med made?I think september should be safe to apply...
Another question ,is it possible Not to take all pre_reqs and apply and finish them let's say in fall?

 

[Perrotfish]

How much applying late will be a disadvantage?Isn't it something pre_med made?I think september should be safe to apply...

First, applying late is a pretty big disadvantage. Second, you´re not going to apply in September. You going to finish your prereqs in September (if you take the horrible courseload that everyone is telling you not to take), which means that September is the earliest you can take your MCAT (which you wouln´t have had any time to study for, while most people take a whole semester to study for it, with English as your second language), which means that the earliest you could possibly apply, under this horrible plan, is DECEMBER, which is too friggin late.

Take your prereqs in the summer and the fall. Study for and take the MCAT in Spring while picking up last minute clininical experience. Apply early (in June of 2009) for the class of 2010. That´s not "taking it slow", that´s actually rushing quite a bit. What you´re suggesting is not just "rushing it", but something that´s probably impossible and definitely application suicide.

 

[MeowMix]

I have had MCAT students who tried to do a fraction of what you are suggesting (e.g. work full time, take 2 prereqs, volunteer work/shadowing which is NECESSARY for application). They inevitably got horrible MCAT scores (low 20s) and ended up demoralized and applying again the following year. Applying late (i.e. after Sept 1) is the final nail in your coffin, unless you want to attend an osteopathic school where applications are accepted later into the year.

There are a very few students in the entire US who could get away with what you are proposing. Based on your description of your grad school experience etc., I don't think you are one of them. You need to really slow down and do everything PROPERLY, not fast. Fast is your enemy at this point.

And, no one will let you start med school until you finish your grad degree.

p.s. Looking back at your old posts, I see that for 3 years you have had a dream but no coherent plan for how to get to med school. You are only 26. You are struggling to get a MS in Physics. You have plenty of time (unless you are facing visa problems and money problems). Relax, develop a realistic plan (talk to the premed advisor at your school), and in 2-3 years you will be ready for med school.

 

[Vith]

Not really sure, but I think most schools require Gen Chem 1 before Gen Chem 2, and both of those before Org, so taking everything in one semester doesn't seem possible. YMMV, though.

Plus, it just seems like a hell of a lot of work for a summer semester.
You're my age and you almost have a master's degree, while I'm just getting rolling with my bachelor's. I'm pretty green with envy at how much progress you've made.
I think you should pace yourself and try to get some clinical exp, and give yourself time to really focus on your prereqs and MCAT prep, finish up in the direction you're headed, and then start applying.

 

[anavistas]

O

 

[anavistas]

Thanks again for all the support,about taking courses without pre_reqs they told me I can take them without considering their pre_reqs so I can take orgo befor taking chem,the secound point is I have taken them befor though med schools don't accept them...
One of the reasons made me think I should do it is that I told myself if I can't take these courseload how do I want to take a much harder one at med school?
With all you said it doesn't seem logical to take this course load...I still think that 1 year is killing ....anyhow I have to take at least 2 courses this summer....
What's your idea about Biology1 in a very short time about 18 days provided that it's only that?This will help me reserve fall for orgo!I took bio2 this semester!

 

[Perrotfish]

One of the reasons made me think I should do it is that I told myself if I can't take these courseload how do I want to take a much harder one at med school?

The courseload you suggested would be harder than the course load at medical school. Also in medical school you only need to pass, you need As.

What's your idea about Biology1 in a very short time about 18 days provided that it's only that?This will help me reserve fall for orgo!I took bio2 this semester!

My idea would be to ask people at your school who have taken this course before to see if it´s feasible. If your school offers it, it´s probably doable, so I´d say go for it.

 

[anavistas]

I talked to my advisor today ,he said because he is supporting me with RA ,I can't take more than one course!
At last I dropped orgo and I'm taking only gen chem1,2 this summer....
Again today graduate advisor(who was angry about my taking undergrad courses!) told me you have to get the approval of grad school ,you cannot take undergrad courses....try to get grad courses ................
I really don't know what should I do ..I've wasted enough time which was in part due to my situation and in part due to my ignorance...
Now I'm not again sure if in fall and spring I can take orgo 1,2 bio1...or not
I'm not even thinking about taking math and physics ,I hope they accept my grad level courses...
Can I take some online courses ,what about labs?Is there anyway to take labs online?

 

[njbmd]

I talked to my advisor today ,he said because he is supporting me with RA ,I can't take more than one course!
At last I dropped orgo and I'm taking only gen chem1,2 this summer....
Again today graduate advisor(who was angry about my taking undergrad courses!) told me you have to get the approval of grad school ,you cannot take undergrad courses....try to get grad courses ................
I really don't know what should I do ..I've wasted enough time which was in part due to my situation and in part due to my ignorance...
Now I'm not again sure if in fall and spring I can take orgo 1,2 bio1...or not
I'm not even thinking about taking math and physics ,I hope they accept my grad level courses...
Can I take some online courses ,what about labs?Is there anyway to take labs online?

If you are a graduate student, most graduate schools require that you obtain permission before you enroll in undergraduate coursework. If you are attempting to enter medical school, you NEED the pre-med courses not graduate coursework. In terms of pre-med coursework, on-line courses are likely not going to be either acceptable or adequate for what you need. (You should check with your prospective medical schools to see if they will accept on-line courses). As for any coursework, you need to check with your prospective schools and find out what they accept and do not accept. "Hoping they will accept" something is not an option in this process. It is incumbent upon you to "know" if they will accept your graduate work. Again many schools are not flexible but some might be. It's on you to find out for sure.

A better strategy would be for you to complete your graduate coursework, which you will have to do anyway. Obtain graduate school permission to take one or two undergraduate courses and slow down. If it takes you a couple of extra years and you are successful in gaining admission into medical school, those two years are worth it. If you rush to apply and don't make it in, you are sitting around waiting anyway.

As others have advised, slow down and make sure that you maximize your application potential. You essentially get one shot at preparation and application. To rush through and wind up doing "damage control" is not going to be optimal for you.