To pre-calc or not to pre-calc..

[FiremedicMike]

I have heard a basic understanding of trigonometry is helpful for chem/ochem, and I'm trying to decide if I want to take pre-calc next quarter. I have already fulfills the math requirements for the schools I am interested in, but I'd happily take a helpful course if it's worth it. The bad thing is that pre-calc would not be covered under my workplace tuition reimbursement, but I can afford to pay cash for it anyways. I am very well grounded in math (to the point I actually enjoy it) so it could serve as an extra a for bcpm gpa padding if nothing else.

Thoughts?

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[ShoTyme]

I have heard a basic understanding of trigonometry is helpful for chem/ochem, and I'm trying to decide if I want to take pre-calc next quarter. I have already fulfills the math requirements for the schools I am interested in, but I'd happily take a helpful course if it's worth it. The bad thing is that pre-calc would not be covered under my workplace tuition reimbursement, but I can afford to pay cash for it anyways. I am very well grounded in math (to the point I actually enjoy it) so it could serve as an extra a for bcpm gpa padding if nothing else.

Thoughts?

If you have taken College Algebra, that should be sufficient for Chem 1 and 2. Physics requires an understanding of Trigonometry though.

Edit: Ochem requires no math.

 

[virindi]

If you've already met the math requirements, I assume you have taken college algebra. Precalc is a combination of college algebra and trigonometry. Since you have already taken college algebra, I would take trigonometry, not precalc.

As the above poster stated, you will need trig for physics. I think precalc satisfies the prereq for physics, but again, you've already had college algebra, so why not take the course that will give you a more in depth understanding of trig?

 

[FiremedicMike]

MATH 150 Pre-Calculus (A, W, SP, SU)
5 credits

MATH 150 presents a study of the trigonometric functions, vectors, and conic sections. Topics include right triangle trigonometry; trigonometry of general angles; the unit circle; the graphs of trigonometric functions; analytical trigonometry; inverse trigonometric functions; verifying identities; solving trigonometric identities; the Law of Sines; the Law of Cosines; applications of trigonometry; polar equations and their graphs; geometric and algebraic vectors; vector applications; the conic sections are defined and analyzed algebraically and graphically. A TI-83/84 graphing calculator is required. Calculators that can do symbolic manipulations are not allowed. Course meets general education requirement for A.A. degree. Not open to students with credit for MATH 151 or above.


That is the course description for "pre-calc" and there is no standalone trig class at my school. There are two tiers of physics available here, the lower series only requires college algebra, the upper requires three more calc courses (including the above listed pre-calc). Coincidentally, Ohio State lists direct course transfer info from their pre-requisite list to what courses are offered at my college, they only require the "lower tier" physics. In summation, I don't NEED math 150, but I will take it if it will help.

 

[ShoTyme]

I would take it. I don't know how trig/Pre-Calc is not a requirement for physics. You will definitely see it there. If you think you are sound in trig concepts, take physics. If not, I would take the precalc class. It will be way more than you really need. But why struggle with the mathematical concepts of physics while also struggling with physics concepts.

 

[lolzilla]

khanacademy.com has a good trig series. That, in combination with a good workbook full of problems to practice, and you'll be set.

 

[JESSFALLING]

khanacademy.com has a good trig series. That, in combination with a good workbook full of problems to practice, and you'll be set.

This is adequate if you take it seriously. I would only take the course if you need the credits/enjoy math classes.

 

[virindi]

Based on your second response, I would say skip it altogether. If tier 1 physics doesn't require it, the the physics course itself will probably spend time on the trig identities needed in the course. If the school you're going for requires the tier 2 physics, well then you need all those other higher math courses anyway.

Another recommendation would be to visit or email the professor of the physics course you'll be taking to get his/her opinion. If you're strictly looking for recommendations on trig as it relates to ochem, I haven't yet taken ochem myself, but assuming ShoTyme is right, you don't need trig for ochem.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Trig for physics is a joke. Just know what soh cah toa is and you're golden. Unless you're planning on applying to schools that require a semester or 2 of Calculus, just ignore the classes. There's no point in gambling your GPA for a class you do not need.

 

[LingoLaine]

Trig for physics is a joke. Just know what soh cah toa is and you're golden.

Agreed. I hadn't taken trig since high school in 1988 and had no problem figuring out enough to do well in my physics classes in 2009-2010.

 

[TwinsFan]

Although it probably isn't a popular opinion I would take the precalc. It will solidify trig concepts; identities and math in general is excellent problem solving practice. Math is pretty interesting IMHO and really can help relate concepts between disciplines (physics, chemistry etc.)

If your really crazy and like a challenge and want to have physics down cold, take the calc-based physics for engineers/physicists (after calc of course!) and you will actually learn a bit about what is going on with the mechanics, magnetism and optics instead of just memorizing lists of formulas. I know those were some of my favorite classes back when I took them.

 

[FiremedicMike]

Alright, so it's debatable whether or not it will be of any use during my physics stint. What about during medical school, will a stronger basis in trig be useful then?

 

[dmf2682]

Although it probably isn't a popular opinion I would take the precalc. It will solidify trig concepts; identities and math in general is excellent problem solving practice. Math is pretty interesting IMHO and really can help relate concepts between disciplines (physics, chemistry etc.)

If your really crazy and like a challenge and want to have physics down cold, take the calc-based physics for engineers/physicists (after calc of course!) and you will actually learn a bit about what is going on with the mechanics, magnetism and optics instead of just memorizing lists of formulas. I know those were some of my favorite classes back when I took them.

This. I'm a strong believer that calculus is important for everyone to learn. It just makes everything make more sense. If you know calculus you'll never read a graph the same way ever again and you'll become better at everything you do.

 

[mauberley]

Alright, so it's debatable whether or not it will be of any use during my physics stint. What about during medical school, will a stronger basis in trig be useful then?

If my half-year experience is any indication: hell no.

 

[Neuro NC]

khanacademy.com has a good trig series. That, in combination with a good workbook full of problems to practice, and you'll be set.

I second (or third) this. I say skip the class if you do not need the credits and teach yourself. If you are strong in math and enjoy it use Khan and perhaps a book. I'm currently refreshing with "Geometry and Trigonometry for Calculus."

 

[theseeker4]

I second (or third) this. I say skip the class if you do not need the credits and teach yourself. If you are strong in math and enjoy it use Khan and perhaps a book. I'm currently refreshing with "Geometry and Trigonometry for Calculus."

I will go against the grain here and say, since you enjoy math and find it easy, if you can afford to take the class and the easy A will help your BCMP gpa, go ahead and take it. If your sGPA is already excellent, of course, save your money and self study as recommended by others.

 

[StillStanding]

My university as well as the local community colleges both list precal as a prereq for Physics and I HATE Math!

 

[Nate9862]

Although it probably isn't a popular opinion I would take the precalc. It will solidify trig concepts; identities and math in general is excellent problem solving practice. Math is pretty interesting IMHO and really can help relate concepts between disciplines (physics, chemistry etc.)

If your really crazy and like a challenge and want to have physics down cold, take the calc-based physics for engineers/physicists (after calc of course!) and you will actually learn a bit about what is going on with the mechanics, magnetism and optics instead of just memorizing lists of formulas. I know those were some of my favorite classes back when I took them.

I am still shocked that calc based physics is not a requirement for medical school. I've learned more about the way the world works in my calc I-II and Physics I and II classes. I think everyone should strive to take those series of classes. I mean, honestly, you should be able to do well in those freshmen/sophomore level classes if you are considering being a medical doctor.

To answer the first question, I think you'll find being highly proficient with pre-calculus techniques will help you significantly in general chemistry. There is a reliance on logarithms and basic algebraic manipulation that will help quite a bit. I found my proficiency put me far ahead of my peers and allowed me to be much, much, more confident throughout the series of courses. Plus, it's only pre-calc dude. If you can't get an A in pre-calc, maybe you should consider a career outside "science".

 

[Nate9862]

My university as well as the local community colleges both list precal as a prereq for Physics and I HATE Math!

Hey man, everyone hates things that they're not able to be proficient in. I hated math too, but now I'm in differential equations and doing pretty well, and more importantly, understanding it. Here's the scoop: you need to master every technique before moving on. I know it sounds like common sense, but lots of people skip this idea and just get utterly frustrated and eventually hate math. If you aren't aware of the exponent rules, or don't know the properties of logarithms, or don't understand how to factor, it's going to make calculus a complete nightmare. After I got out of the military I was a math mental midget. I forgot my multiplication tables. So, I started there. I relearned by elementary multiplication tables using flash cards, then went from cover to cover with an algebra I then algebra II, then finally a precalculus book, clep'd precal and took calc I, II, and now in diff eq. I actually, and strangely, enjoy math, because I have a solid foundation.

 

[random2708]

I have heard a basic understanding of trigonometry is helpful for chem/ochem, and I'm trying to decide if I want to take pre-calc next quarter. I have already fulfills the math requirements for the schools I am interested in, but I'd happily take a helpful course if it's worth it. The bad thing is that pre-calc would not be covered under my workplace tuition reimbursement, but I can afford to pay cash for it anyways. I am very well grounded in math (to the point I actually enjoy it) so it could serve as an extra a for bcpm gpa padding if nothing else.

Thoughts?

I just gave my answer to this question on another forum yesterday . . .

I challenged into Intermediate Alg after a 20 year absence. Took Gen Chem I & II. Having some extra math for Gen Chem II would have helped. When we started figuring negative logs (pH) and exponential decay, etc I had no idea what was being talked about. Didn't take much to catch up, figured out how to do the math on a calculator and plug and chugged my way through.

Organic I had no math whatsoever, Organic II looks pretty math free.

Physics on the other hand looks fairly math intensive, even without taking calc based Physics. I was going to take a standalone Trig class (only 1 per semester offered) but was worried about perhaps needing Calc at some point and didn't have enough time to take both. I felt that Trig ahead of Physics just made good sense.

So I ended up registering for Math for Biological Sciences which has intro trig, intro calc, some extra algebra and a smattering of statistics.

Could I get through Physics without it, maybe, but if I can get through Physics without the extra math, then why not take the math to add to the GPA. If I can't then good thing I took it. Plus at least two of my target schools require trig at a minimum, one possible school requires a calc.

http://www.cse.emory.edu/sciencenet/additional_math_reqs.pdf

Good luck,

Random

 

[StillStanding]

Hey man, everyone hates things that they're not able to be proficient in. I hated math too, but now I'm in differential equations and doing pretty well, and more importantly, understanding it. Here's the scoop: you need to master every technique before moving on. I know it sounds like common sense, but lots of people skip this idea and just get utterly frustrated and eventually hate math. If you aren't aware of the exponent rules, or don't know the properties of logarithms, or don't understand how to factor, it's going to make calculus a complete nightmare. After I got out of the military I was a math mental midget. I forgot my multiplication tables. So, I started there. I relearned by elementary multiplication tables using flash cards, then went from cover to cover with an algebra I then algebra II, then finally a precalculus book, clep'd precal and took calc I, II, and now in diff eq. I actually, and strangely, enjoy math, because I have a solid foundation.

I'm defnitely not a man...lol
I completely get what you are saying and am glad that your mentioned method worked for you. However, there are some people who just don't like math and I happen to be one of them. This is not to say that I won't do well. I am just honest and upfront with the fact that it isn't my strong suite or an interest of mine. As for Pre-cal or Cal, I haven't taken either yet. However, with a little sweat, I'll get through it like I've done with previous Math classes.

 

[StillStanding]

Hey man, everyone hates things that they're not able to be proficient in. I hated math too, but now I'm in differential equations and doing pretty well, and more importantly, understanding it. Here's the scoop: you need to master every technique before moving on. I know it sounds like common sense, but lots of people skip this idea and just get utterly frustrated and eventually hate math. If you aren't aware of the exponent rules, or don't know the properties of logarithms, or don't understand how to factor, it's going to make calculus a complete nightmare. After I got out of the military I was a math mental midget. I forgot my multiplication tables. So, I started there. I relearned by elementary multiplication tables using flash cards, then went from cover to cover with an algebra I then algebra II, then finally a precalculus book, clep'd precal and took calc I, II, and now in diff eq. I actually, and strangely, enjoy math, because I have a solid foundation.

Sorry for the double post. SDN gave an error message while trying to post.

 

[FiremedicMike]

Thanks all for the advice, I've decided to take the class. I was already leaning in favor of taking the class and these ideas reinforced my line of thinking.