Today Is Ortho Match Day 2003

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Yah-E

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Hey guys, I thought I share with everyone that a member of Class of 2004 here at Nova matched today in an Ortho residency at Univ Penn. He has a class ranking #1 in his class and just overall an amazing guy who is very involved with all sorts of organizations (A LOT of extracurriculars)! I believe there are a total of 5 or 6 of his classmates also applied for an Ortho residency, but I just found out that this particular mentor of mine got matched!!

I'm so pumped for him!

Ortho is involved in the Phase I of the dental matching process.

Phase II matchings are GPR, AEGD, OMS and/or PED programs. The results for these matches will be revealed on January 26, 2004! Good luck to everyone (Class of 2004s)!

:clap:
 
So, what makes the guy gets in? Class ranking or curriculum?

Assuming he doesn't do any extra curr. stuff, would he get in with his #1 class rank?
 
Just curious about how many matched for ORTHO at Columbia or NYU this year? Anyone know?
 
I would bet on that an applicant would not match anywhere simply based on his/her #1 class ranking, cumulative GPA and high NBDE Part 1 score. There's simply a too much of a competition for for a "no extra-curriculars" applicant to match.

Just my opinion.

Being #1 and 94 on the boards alone is not enough!
 
I had a classmate who was ranked in the mid 30s who was pretty average. He was also a real $&*#$&@#$&. He ended up going to Columbia for ortho. I wonder if the fact that his dad was friends with the chair was a help? Dunno.
 
Yah-E, actually being #1 and having no extracurriculars can result in a match. Just be sure to do some minimal involvement activities and bs your resume to the max. Definitely doesn't have to be to the level or class president or anything. Some random commitments and volunteer hours here and there carefully crafted on paper to be bigger than they really are is enough. (Although if your mentor is a genuine person, I'm sure he doesn't fit this bill). Ortho programs LOVE those #1s - it's a bragging right for some of them.

I just went through the ortho match process. It is a nerve-wracking, time consuming and EXPENSIVE endeavor. Although I had some (4) interviews, I didn't end up matching this year. It sucks temporarily, but I've already got my plans in place to make sure I am fully prepared by the time the applications come out next year.

Class rank matters, I think, a lot in ortho. It's easiest to discriminate applications based on rank. Boards are definitely important - break a 90. There are too many people applying out there who have the 90 for them to even consider anything less. The importance of serious involvement in extra-curriculars is debateable. It's certainly not a bad thing, but sometimes it felt like they didn't even read the second page of my resume, if they even read it at all. The importance of even being able to conduct research is also questionable. I found that my research background (undergrad & dental school) just kept bringing up the question of "So do you think you would want to do a PhD?" at my interviews. I'm not really sure if I want to do one in the future, but I don't wish to pursue one right now which is exactly what I said at my interviews. I didn't feel comfortable lying about it just to get in. However, integrity can go out the window too - I met several ppl who would lie about this answer to get in.

Throughout this whole process, I totally thought I would have to borrow ridiculous amounts of money next year to attend a program somewhere and be in lots more debt since GME funding will not be available anymore. On the flip side now, I will actually be making some money next year b/c I plan on doing a GPR. Now I have to go interview for my GPRs and enter the second phase of the match as Yah-E described above and go through the match agony AGAIN. I had applied to some GPRs as back up. One GPR program actually contatcted me today after seeing my name on the "unmatched" list. (I wonder if they are desparate for applicants, but it doesn't hurt to check it out.) But this time GPR match is going to work - and I will reapply to ortho and make it - I can't see it being any other way!

And now, since my senior year grades are going to be looked at, I need to go study and ace my finals this week. I can post more later about details of applying to post-grad, if anyone is interested.
 
I dont know how many more there are, but the last count for columbia was:

Howard - 1
UCSF - 2
Columbia - 1
NYU - 1
Colorado - 1




Originally posted by SillyRabbit
Just curious about how many matched for ORTHO at Columbia or NYU this year? Anyone know?
 
Dudelove: I know of one person in the columbia ortho clinic who is a genuine @#$@#$%!@#@$.......maybe we are talking about the same person? hehe...

Griffin04: Sorry to hear that the match thing didnt work towards your favor. A GPR under your belt will definitely boost your CV when the next round comes. I'm actually kinda considering ortho now.....with each passing day, I am less motivated to persue oms....simply cuz of the time involvement (even the 4 year programs are a big chunk of time "wasted").
 
Griffin:

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I'm sorry to hear that you didn't match, but I got a feeling that you'll be just fine and GPR for you will be no problem.

Do you know how many of your classmates applied and matched? I am aware of at least 6 applied to Ortho from the Class of 2006 at Nova and 2 that I know have matched.

Where do you think your application process went wrong? I know you have good board scores, I know you're at least top 20 and I definitely know that you have tons of extracurriculars (I know that these earned you your interviews). Was it your interviews, you think? Good luck on all your finals.

Puppy:

Very dissappointed in you, if you drop OMS!!😉
 
Originally posted by Doggie
I dont know how many more there are, but the last count for columbia was:

Howard - 1
UCSF - 2
Columbia - 1
NYU - 1
Colorado - 1

Actually UCSF -3 ( 2 from ID4 and 1 from D4 batch) 1 of the 2 from the ID4 wasn't through match though.
 
how come orthodontics is such a popular specialty? there isn't that much difference in pay between it and general dentistry i wouldn't think.
 
In brief, ortho is popular for a number of reasons. It is extremely rewarding to make a life altering difference in someone's appearance. Before and after smiles can be jaw dropping. It is clean, non-invasive, and because so many people want ortho treatment, it tends to sell itself. It results in happy compliant patients. How many patients love going to see their general dentist? Not as many as in ortho. And yes, in general, Orthodontists make way more money than general dentists, whether on the associate or the ownership level. Hmmm....maybe I should have applied to ortho...j/k
 
hmm........ when I think of a GPR, it seems like everyone who is wants to do it, can. After, reading some of the posts, it seems like there is actually competition to get into a gpr..... I would appreciate it if someone would so kindly explain to me how competitive a gpr is and what board scores, class rank, extras, etc. is acceptable for admittance into a gpr, thanks.
 
Originally posted by EyeCandy
hmm........ when I think of a GPR, it seems like everyone who is wants to do it, can. After, reading some of the posts, it seems like there is actually competition to get into a gpr..... I would appreciate it if someone would so kindly explain to me how competitive a gpr is and what board scores, class rank, extras, etc. is acceptable for admittance into a gpr, thanks.

How competitive it is will depend on exactly WHICH program you are applying to.

My general observation is that some programs are much more competitive than others simply because the facilities are nicer, the patient base is broader, and students would rather live in certain cities/climates than others.
 
I think the dentist in question graduated from Columbia ortho in 2002.


Originally posted by Doggie
Dudelove: I know of one person in the columbia ortho clinic who is a genuine @#$@#$%!@#@$.......maybe we are talking about the same person? hehe...

Griffin04: Sorry to hear that the match thing didnt work towards your favor. A GPR under your belt will definitely boost your CV when the next round comes. I'm actually kinda considering ortho now.....with each passing day, I am less motivated to persue oms....simply cuz of the time involvement (even the 4 year programs are a big chunk of time "wasted").
 
1) it pays really well
2) you have a lot of fee for service patients
3) no call and the work is relatively easy
4) dad can easily pass on ortho practice to son/daughter and you have instant income/practice...this is after dad talks to ortho director to get you into school..hehe


Originally posted by comatose
how come orthodontics is such a popular specialty? there isn't that much difference in pay between it and general dentistry i wouldn't think.
 
Originally posted by comatose
how come orthodontics is such a popular specialty? there isn't that much difference in pay between it and general dentistry i wouldn't think.

Maybe this has something to do with it???

click on the smiley!

😀
 
Originally posted by Henna
Actually UCSF -3 ( 2 from ID4 and 1 from D4 batch) 1 of the 2 from the ID4 wasn't through match though.

there's also one more person w/ a program... i forgot what it was tho...

so that makes 8 Ortho for Columbia... (that's 10% of the class)...
 
After reading that article about the ten most overpaid jobs, I only wonder what the author pulls in annually. Anybody who thinks Ortho is easy work is in for a surprise. Sure, the Orthodontists make it look easy, but seeing 70 patients a day is no cake walk. The assistants do in fact do a lot of the adjusting, but the orthodontist is the one that calls the shots. Ortho isn't about bending wires. It's all about expert treatment planning. A monkey could learn to bend wires, but it takes a lot of brainpower to be a talented orthodontist. My friends that are orthos are spent at the end of the day. Ortho is incredibly rewarding, both personally and financially, but it isn't as easy as everybody thinks. Still, if you are dedicated, it's a great field.
 
Yah-E, Doggie - Thanks for the encouragement. I know now what I have to do to be sitting here next year on match day with a successful result in my hands. Doggie, you shouldn't just give up oral surgery b/c of the time commitment. A good majority of ortho programs are 3 years these days, and what's another year to do a 4-year OMS program and become an oral surgeon, if that's where your passion is?

My class (2004) had 7 applicant, 6 matched. That actually sounds pretty good for our school, except when I happen to be the one that didn't match. There were also some reapplicants that matched this year, but don't know the exact number.

I can only speculate where my application process might have gone wrong. I am not in the top 10 - I sit just outside of 10. To some places that is a big deal. But since my rank isn't going to change, I can't dwell on that. I'm just not going to apply to those programs that are known for taking only #1s & 2s (UNC, Seattle...) Maybe they didn't like my essay - but I highly doubt that b/c I think I wrote at least an average essay. Another factor could be age. I had a reapplicant tell me that when she contacted some of the programs that didn't take her, they told her she was younger. She had only done 3 years of undergrad so she was a little bit younger, but she was shocked to hear this response. I too fit this description. Maybe my interviews didn't go as well as I thought - in speaking with a faculty member here today, I could have answered some stuff differently. I know at one of my interviews, there seemed to be a strong regional bias that was going to be very tough to break through for me.

I think I got 2 of my interviews based on my involvement in ASDA and research. However, out of my 4 interviews, I really only loved 2 of the programs. The other 2, although really good programs with great facilities and staff, just weren't for me at this point in my life. I almost didn't rank them, but it doesn't matter now anyways. I want to be somewhere I'll be happy and I might have been more miserable for the next 3 years if I had matched into my bottom choices.

How competitive are GPR programs? It depends on the program - there are programs that don't fill all their spots and any one who wants to do a GPR will get one, it just might not be the most desirable program & locaiton. Actually, there were even 3 ortho programs that didn't fill all their spots after the match (5 spots total). This happens not b/c there aren't enough applicants to ortho, but b/c the applicants interviewed & ranked by that program matched somewhere else. I applied to 6 GPR/AEGD programs and received interview invites to all of them. I turned down 3 interviews b/c at the time of my application, the location sounded really good but at this point in time, that location doesn't appeal to me anymore.

My other 3 GPR invites are all in NYC. At one of these programs, there are at least 7 (I think even more) students from my school interviewing there. The program only takes 7 or 8 residents total and the most they'll take from our school is 2. This program is real attractive to my classmates b/c of the facilities, experiences, and the nice location of the hospital. But none of those reasons are why I applied to this GPR - it offers something else that I am looking for that my classmates don't necessarily care for. Anyhow, now this GPR has suddenly become a competitive program for a student interviewing from my school. A GPR I didn't even apply to called me when they saw I didn't match into ortho and offered me an interview without knowing anything about me except for my unmatched status. To me, this sounds like they might be desperate for applicants and maybe this isn't as "competitive" as the program I described above. But hey, they happend to be near the other 3 programs so I'll interview with them - so that is 4 interviews coming up. The competition, therefore, all varies by the program.
 
Originally posted by bcDDS
After reading that article about the ten most overpaid jobs, I only wonder what the author pulls in annually. Anybody who thinks Ortho is easy work is in for a surprise. Sure, the Orthodontists make it look easy, but seeing 70 patients a day is no cake walk. The assistants do in fact do a lot of the adjusting, but the orthodontist is the one that calls the shots. Ortho isn't about bending wires. It's all about expert treatment planning. A monkey could learn to bend wires, but it takes a lot of brainpower to be a talented orthodontist. My friends that are orthos are spent at the end of the day. Ortho is incredibly rewarding, both personally and financially, but it isn't as easy as everybody thinks. Still, if you are dedicated, it's a great field.

it didnt seem that hard... i worked for an ortho person for two years.... it was really relaxing at the practice I worked at...

but the Dr. also worked for another ortho and made 1300+ a day and he said that it's a lot more of a assembly line type of work there....

an ortho resident (during his 3rd yr) told me how ortho's a lot of guess work...

Griffin... let us know more about the GPR stuff when you get a chance and when the match stuff happens... hope everything works out for you...
 
I'm happy to say that I've matched to my first ranked orthodontic program, and I'm even happier to say the application process is over. It's been a grueling 6 months. I don't have much time to write extensively right now about my experiences, but I can tell you a bit about applying to ortho and what programs are looking for. They want maturity...(I can't stress that enough), stability, CONFIDENCE, goal-oriented people, friendly & easy to talk to individuals, and of course all the other things discussed so far in this forum. Interviews weren't nearly as tough as I thought they would be...I was never asked the question..."so why do you want to be an orthodontist." No technical ortho questions either. For those of you who didn't match...I sort of understand what you're going through...I didn't get into dental school the first time I applied. Now I've gotten into ortho...figure that one out. I didn't have any connections what so ever...the ortho faculty at my school probably don't even know my name. My undergrad grades were terrible and each school requested an undergrad transcript...didn't make a difference what so ever and was never mentioned at any of my 10 interviews. So what can I say...if you want it bad enough you will get it no matter what it is. I personally think my hard work had something to do with getting in the first time around straight out of dental school. I also think I was extremely lucky and things just went my way. If anyone has any specific questions, I'll check back later. Best of luck to you all.
 
Dirty Dr. Sanchez:

Congrats! :clap:

With your NBDE Part 1 score (117), I had no doubts about you! So tell us, any extracurriculars on your CV? In general, do you think simply being #1 in your class and high NBDE score is ENOUGH to get matched? Or is extracurriculars CRUCIAL?
 
Originally posted by StarGirl
it didnt seem that hard... i worked for an ortho person for two years.... it was really relaxing at the practice I worked at...

but the Dr. also worked for another ortho and made 1300+ a day and he said that it's a lot more of a assembly line type of work there....

an ortho resident (during his 3rd yr) told me how ortho's a lot of guess work...

Griffin... let us know more about the GPR stuff when you get a chance and when the match stuff happens... hope everything works out for you...

Like I said, it doesn't seem all that difficult. But practicing ortho is like trying to solve jigsaw puzzles all day long. The work is fast, but you still can't afford to make mistakes with your decisions. You probably use more of your brain than in any other dental discipline. There is guess work involved, but a third year resident still has a lot to learn. I'm sure that with experience, there is less and less guess work. Ortho can be very assembly line like, but it's anything but mindless. It's not the most difficult job in the world, but it really isn't as easy as it's made out to be. My friend doesn't even have the time to take a restroom break during office hours. Anyway, 'nuff said. I still think the rewards are worth the tradeoffs....easily...
 
man... NO big deal people

As a dental assistant for the past 2 yrs, I'm confident enough to recommend my dentist what to do on each case. He lets me exam the patients and recommend all the treatment plan. He then goes over with either agree or disagree. 99% I'm correct. I'm so happy that the end-result of all of my patients came out very good. Many of them refer their friends to us. My dentist is not even an Ortho. Our office schedule 2 days per weeks for Ortho (tues and thurs) with an average of 60 patients/2 days. Do you really need to get into ortho program to make good money? I don't think so.

by the way, 1 of our dental hygienist is VERY good that this stuffs too. well, he has been there 5 yrs.
 
Board scores and class rank are not enough to match...but they will get you the interviews. Every person I interviewed with had basically the same numbers...(board scores/class rank). The difference between the candidates is what you should focus on. Show that you have been genuinely interested in something before and followed through with it wholeheartedly. If you are into teaching...do alot of it. They like that...however, if you are not into it, don't say you are. Don't pretend you're something you're not...they know your background and if you can't back up your resume...(they will know if you're sincere during the interview) You'll have no chance. So my best advice is to find something in dentistry (orthodontics (or any given specialty), research (in any given area), teaching (in any capacity), leadership positions etc. and put your heart into it. They want to see a history of a person following through with their interests instead of doing things half-assed. And if you have the numbers, as I said in a previous post...personality, ability/propensity to work well with others and fit with the personality of the program (every program is different in some way), and maturity are very important. They are making an investment in you believe it or not...and they want to make sure you'll not only complete the program successfully, but that you will get along with everyone there as well. So...numbers will get you throught the door, but it's the person who ultimately gets the match. And like I said before, a lot of luck helps. Less than 50% of individuals who submitted a rank list for ortho matched this year...the stats are on the match website under results. I'm sure the great majority are qualified to learn and practice orthodontics. I was talking to the chairman of one of the most prestigious orthodontic programs in the country after one of my interviews about the process in general...he did not match initially...only after two attempts did he get a position. So, there is a light at the end of the tunnel for those who want it bad enough. I worked incredibly hard, short circuited my brain many many times, and for the first time in a long time...I had luck on my side. In retrospect, it was worth it to say the least...but the path to this point was incredibly tough. It takes a lot of sacrifice and a strong will...intelligence is not nearly as important. The reason why numbers are important is because, in my opinion, they set apart those individuals who have sacrificed and worked hard consistently to achieve their goals. As I'm sure you all know...getting the A consistently in dental school is not an easy task. I've got to get back to work...I hope my words are helpful.
 
Wow, I would hate to imagine how much less brain an oral surgeon or prosthodontist uses on their cases. There is nothing inherently difficult to ortho, the only thing diificult is getting into a program due to the artifically low numbers of graduates residency programs accept and put out. It certainly was a step in the right direction(and a blow to the AAO) when general dentists filed a class action suit against invisalign which would only provide their services to orthodontists in the past. I have 3 friends who are orthodontists, none of them take insurance and they see maybe 8 or 9 patients a day. They all net well over 400k a year. That's pretty good and they don't run assembly line practices.

Anyhow, goodluck to everyone who has gotten in!


Originally posted by bcDDS
Like I said, it doesn't seem all that difficult. But practicing ortho is like trying to solve jigsaw puzzles all day long. The work is fast, but you still can't afford to make mistakes with your decisions. You probably use more of your brain than in any other dental discipline. There is guess work involved, but a third year resident still has a lot to learn. I'm sure that with experience, there is less and less guess work. Ortho can be very assembly line like, but it's anything but mindless. It's not the most difficult job in the world, but it really isn't as easy as it's made out to be. My friend doesn't even have the time to take a restroom break during office hours. Anyway, 'nuff said. I still think the rewards are worth the tradeoffs....easily...
 
bcDDS,
could you talk about your endo match and interviews? I've heard that field is just as hard to get into as ortho, especially right out of dental school?
 
This is one of the most interesting and beneficial threads I've seen on here in a long time.

All you DS4s please keep posting! I'll continue to eat up every word you post, as I'm sure many others will also!
 
wow...I really didn't want to drag this thread out, but since I am getting flamed, I should probably clarify my posts.
I stand by everything I said. For all that want to discredit the challenging aspects of the field, I ask this one question. Would you be willing to pay the difference to have a specialist do your ortho over a general dentist? I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who roams these forums, including those that claim that ortho can be easily done by a gp would go to a specialist, no matter what the difference in cost.
I'm no saying that Ortho is rocket science. But anyone that says it's the easiest thing you can do is a bit misinformed. I get the impression that people think it's some straightforward craft that can be picked up with just experience. Maybe they've done one simple class I malocclusion case - mild crowding. What about class II, III, cleft palate coordinated treatments, orthognathics, etc - what about all those cases? What, do you think every ortho case is just about crowding? I used to be a staff dentist at a children's hospital, and I would sit in on the monthly cleft palate meetings. I was pretty impressed by the scope and knowledge of the orthodontists that helped coordinate the treatment plans. If an assistant or hygienist can treatment plan 99% of the ortho cases, what the heck do we need orthodontists for, let alone dentists? Statements like that are just a stretch. Very few general dentists, understand cephalometric analysis, SNA, SNB, ANB angles, craniofacial growth patterns, etc., let alone assistants. That's what 3 year accredited ortho programs are for. There is a lot more to it than meets the eye.
I'm not saying you can't do any ortho as a general dentist. Sure, money can be made, but I'm not talking about money, I'm referring to standard of care orthodontics. You can probably treat simple cases if this what you really want. But if you can't do it at the level of the specialist, you should stay away. A LOT of things can go wrong in ortho, especially if you don't really know what you're doing. Just wait until you see cases with buccal recession, root resorption, ankylosis, etc. We're talking about irreparable damage here. Furthermore, wait until you've been slapped with the lawsuits that follow. I've chosen not to touch any ortho cases that come my way, no matter how simple I think they might be. They all get referred. It's just my philosophy. Specialists exist for a reason, and every patient deserves the standard of care. I've seen a lot go wrong with ortho, and it's a choice that I've made. But if you think you know what you're doing, it's your call.
Obviously I'm not an orthodontist, but I'll say that I have a lot of respect for the field. I've been around it more than I care to discuss, and it really wasn't as easy as I once thought it to be. Come on, let's give em the respect they deserve... 🙂
 
dc-10, I pm-ed you just to leave the endo stuff out of the ortho thread.

bc
 
Originally posted by ItsGavinC
This is one of the most interesting and beneficial threads I've seen on here in a long time.

All you DS4s please keep posting! I'll continue to eat up every word you post, as I'm sure many others will also!

can you post the meaning to those words? i am too lazy to even read such long replys...😳
 
Originally posted by bcDDS
wow...I really didn't want to drag this thread out, but since I am getting flamed, I should probably clarify my posts.
I stand by everything I said. For all that want to discredit the challenging aspects of the field, I ask this one question. Would you be willing to pay the difference to have a specialist do your ortho over a general dentist? I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who roams these forums, including those that claim that ortho can be easily done by a gp would go to a specialist, no matter what the difference in cost.
I'm no saying that Ortho is rocket science. But anyone that says it's the easiest thing you can do is a bit misinformed. I get the impression that people think it's some straightforward craft that can be picked up with just experience. Maybe they've done one simple class I malocclusion case - mild crowding. What about class II, III, cleft palate coordinated treatments, orthognathics, etc - what about all those cases? What, do you think every ortho case is just about crowding? I used to be a staff dentist at a children's hospital, and I would sit in on the monthly cleft palate meetings. I was pretty impressed by the scope and knowledge of the orthodontists that helped coordinate the treatment plans. If an assistant or hygienist can treatment plan 99% of the ortho cases, what the heck do we need orthodontists for, let alone dentists? Statements like that are just a stretch. Very few general dentists, understand cephalometric analysis, SNA, SNB, ANB angles, craniofacial growth patterns, etc., let alone assistants. That's what 3 year accredited ortho programs are for. There is a lot more to it than meets the eye.
I'm not saying you can't do any ortho as a general dentist. Sure, money can be made, but I'm not talking about money, I'm referring to standard of care orthodontics. You can probably treat simple cases if this what you really want. But if you can't do it at the level of the specialist, you should stay away. A LOT of things can go wrong in ortho, especially if you don't really know what you're doing. Just wait until you see cases with buccal recession, root resorption, ankylosis, etc. We're talking about irreparable damage here. Furthermore, wait until you've been slapped with the lawsuits that follow. I've chosen not to touch any ortho cases that come my way, no matter how simple I think they might be. They all get referred. It's just my philosophy. Specialists exist for a reason, and every patient deserves the standard of care. I've seen a lot go wrong with ortho, and it's a choice that I've made. But if you think you know what you're doing, it's your call.
Obviously I'm not an orthodontist, but I'll say that I have a lot of respect for the field. I've been around it more than I care to discuss, and it really wasn't as easy as I once thought it to be. Come on, let's give em the respect they deserve... 🙂

Ok.. I'm heading to the airport rite now for my Nova's interview. I will disscuss with you more about this when I get back next monday. You're right too about this ortho specialty.
 
Is there any information on rankings of ortho programs, or is that kind of like ranking dental schools, it all depends on what you want to get out of the program? Also, how does licensing work for specialists in general? Do you have to have a general dental license for each state, and then board certification is a national thing? Or is it a state to state thing?
 
bcDDS is right on. At one of my interviews, a resident presented a case of a patient with mild cleido-cranio-dysostosis. That's a disease where the patient has no (or very small) clavicles. Dentally they present with lots of unerupted and supernumerary teeth and jaw malalignments. The only way to describe this patient was "orthodontic nightmare." What they did for the patient is amazing, but it definitely required a lot more thinking and planning than doing a simple space analysis. Ortho residents don't train for 2 - 3 years just to get bragging rights.

DocSanchez, congrats on matching! Question for you, in your course of interviews, which did you hear from residents/faculty or other applicants to be considered the "prestigious" ortho programs in the country? At one place, they listed Seattle, Michigan, Ohio State, UNC, and Florida as being up there. Of course, the one thing in common at all those programs is heavy research & more full time faculty (I think). It doesn't necessarily mean more clinical experiences. As one resident told me "The best program is the one you get into" - I completely agree. Any comments?

Originally posted by DocDrtySanchez
They want maturity...(I can't stress that enough), stability, CONFIDENCE, goal-oriented people, friendly & easy to talk to individuals, and of course all the other things discussed so far in this forum. Interviews weren't nearly as tough as I thought they would be...I was never asked the question..."so why do you want to be an orthodontist." No technical ortho questions either.

I agree with most of what Doc listed about the interviewing experience. I would add that at all of my interviews, I did get asked "So when did you first get interested in ortho?" or "Why ortho?" I also got some "What part of general dentistry do you like?" Another question common to all my interviews was some version of "If you were filthy rich, what would you do with all that money?" Luck is a factor - I had four interviews and so did a fellow classmate. He matched, I didn't. I recall a poster here on SDN a while back who had 1 interview and matched. In theory it only takes 1 interview, because you can only attend one program. However, I met reapplicants who had 6, 7, 9 (!!!) interviews and didn't match on their first tries. So you never know, luck can be HUGE.

Believe it or not, I am actually much happier since Tuesday than I was this entire semester. I'm just glad the application bs is over for now - I saved every piece of paper from this round so I have a HUGE heads up for the next round. Applications are agony - some schools participate in PASS, some don't and have their own forms. Even the ones that partcipate want all this supplemental stuff sent to them independent of PASS. Waiting for interview invites was even worse. And then the waiting to find out the result of match. I am actually really looking forward to my year of GPR. I think I possess most all the qualities you listed, except that this year will definitely help me in the maturity department and can only add to my confidence. If nothing else, it'll be a welcome year of rest after dental school.
 
Griffin:

As a near future NY state dental graduate, don't you guys have to do one year Post-doc anyways to be considered licensed instead of licensure examinations?

Is this one additional year GPR or AEGD? I thought it was GPR. If it's GPR, then isn't all your classmates doing GPRs?
 
I can't get the stuff off the website to format properly, but here are this year's numbers.

Total # of spots available through match: 248 (5 spots were not filled)
Applicants Matched - 243
Participating Applicants Not Matched- 269
Total - 512 applicants

Match Results by Rank on Applicant?s List
Rank Number ---------------- Number Matched
1 ------------------------------- 176
2 ------------------------------- 38
3 ------------------------------- 15
4 ------------------------------- 12
5 ------------------------------- 2
6 or higher------------------------- 0

There were 410 applicants from US Dental schools. 227 matched, 183 unmatched.
There were 102 applicants from non-US Dental schools. 16 matched, 86 unmatched.

There were 250 applicants from the class of 2004. 157 matched, 93 unmatched.
There were 262 pre-2004 graduates. 86 matched, 176 unmatched. This stat is further broken down as follows. 128/262 had no previous graduate training - 27 matched, 101 unmatched. 134/262 had previous graduate training - 59 matched, 75 unmatched.

These numbers don't include the students who were accepted before the match by ortho programs that don't participate in the match (Tufts, U. of Rochester (NY), Minnesota, that new Jacksonville program, a few others). BTW, the Jacksonville program was originally listed as participating in the match, but later decided to drop out. There is an explanation on their website as to why they decided to go this way, can't remember why.
 
Originally posted by Yah-E
Griffin:

As a near future NY state dental graduate, don't you guys have to do one year Post-doc anyways to be considered licensed instead of licensure examinations?

Is this one additional year GPR or AEGD? I thought it was GPR. If it's GPR, then isn't all your classmates doing GPRs?

My class currently has a choice. We can either take & pass the NERB to apply for a NY license, or we succesfully complete a 1 year ADA accredited GPR or AEGD anywhere in the nation or successfully complete an ADA accredited specialty program and apply for a NY license. Actually, a graduate of any dental school who completes the ADA accredited GPR/AEGD/Specialty is eligible to apply for a NY state license.

The dental students are currenlty trying to word the bill so that the classes of 2005 - 2008 can get grandfathered in and also have this choice available. However, NY is pushing to make it so that for anyone to get a license here, you have to complete an ADA accredited post-grad program. I'm not clear on all the details since my class is definitely exempt but it's probably on the website for the state dental society - www.nysdental.org

I do have to add that for all the pre-dents who worry about the prestige of the dental school and specializing, I think the numbers above show that about half of the applicants to ortho get in. With all the above discussion, it's pretty clear that having the right stats and stuff on paper is what gets you into the interview. From there it is upto the applicant and some luck. I really don't think that the Columbia vs U. Oklahoma really makes that big of a difference except for the total numbers of students applying to specialize from those schools (just using those two schools as examples).
 
The prestige of the school is based on research, and the prestige of faculty. I think each applicant should have there own idea of prestige. (ie. location, stipend, #of faculty, quality of clinic, patient pool, etc.) Michigan, UNC, Florida, are "prestigous" because they have faculty that regularly give seminars at meetings. (plus they do a whole lot of research). They all happen to be three year schools.

Good luck GavinC, start early on those applications. (like now)

I think the jacksonville program dropped out because of technical difficulties. My feeling is they probably wanted to be more competitive, so they selected earlier.
 
I found out today from some upperclassmen that we had 14 matche for ortho at Penn! :clap:
 
Griffin...with regard to the perceived prestige of orthodontic programs, I agree...it largely has to do with research funding. I interviewed at several of those programs and found that the atmosphere was very similar to dental school...certainly a turn off for me. I am looking for the strongest clinical experience I can attain, and some of those big name programs cannot offer that because of the sizeable didactic and research components of their curriculum. So prior to applying, it's best to know what you are looking for and rate programs as to how well they fit with your expectations. The program I will be attending is very strong clinically with enough academics to give you the theory behind the practice. Ultimately, however, you can learn all that stuff on your own. It's applying the knowledge that counts and at this point, acquiring it doesn't require a lecturer and exams. If anyone has any other questions, I'd be more than happy to share my experiences.
 
I know we had 1 drop out of match becuase he got into Tufts (non-match) early, so I think that makes 15! :clap:

Congrats to all you guys that matched and good luck for the people that didnt. Kepp the good info coming, Hopfully I will able to post a successfull match in 3 years!
 
Just found out today that we have 3 students (U Penn, Tufts and Jacksonville) out of 6 applied from Class of 2004 at Nova matched into Ortho this year. A student who's #2 in the class ranking, 96 on NBDE Part 1 and ample Ortho research experiences did not match! That just goes to show that positive impression at interviews is a huge factor, no matter what specialty residency you're applying for.

Numbers will insure you interview invites, interview impressions will determine your fate!
 
UCSF has 6 matches out of 6 application. That's 100%. We have a small class, so 5-6 for each specialty is a very good number.

I agree with Yah-E. Class rank and board score are not all. As I know ppl with class rank below #10 and board score below 90 got matched.

Lots of things to learn.
 
Originally posted by tinker bell
UCSF has 6 matches out of 6 application. That's 100%. We have a small class, so 5-6 for each specialty is a very good number.

I agree with Yah-E. Class rank and board score are not all. As I know ppl with class rank below #10 and board score below 90 got matched.

Lots of things to learn.

Hey Tinkerbell!
How's your first yr going 🙂
Just wondering what schools did those people match w/? One of my friend's going to UCSF next year 🙂 It seems like a lot of Columbia students really like UCSF for postgrad... I know a few going there for interviews for other programs as well. How big are UCSF's classes? Good luck on the rest of your finals.
 
Originally posted by tinker bell
UCSF has 6 matches out of 6 application. That's 100%. We have a small class, so 5-6 for each specialty is a very good number.

Are you sure about this Tink? I met 2 UCSF students at one of my interviews and they indicated that something like 15 students applied to Ortho in their senior class at UCSF. I'm almost sure that's what they said b/c even the UCSF students were kinda surprised that the number was so high. Maybe 6 students successfully matched but there were more applications?
 
I think that 6 applied. I might be wrong. Bc I asked one of those applicant b4 matched day, and he told me that 6 people applied, but one already found out, because Loma Linda doesn't match. So, the other 5 were waiting (including him).

I only know about 4 ppl, one goes to LL, one goes to UCSF, one goes to Umich, one goes to St Louis.

Star,
My finals are finally over here. We are going out to celebrate tonight. Our class is small, only 80 students. And my classmates have been wonderful so far.

Oh, word to the wise, if you guys want to apply to Ortho here? Make sure you study your GRE, and ace the verbal section.
 
I finally found out all the numbers, 14 out of 18 matched, all 14 with their #1 choice!
 
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