Too late to apply to gen surg

[956386]

MS4 here. Created a new account to post this. Basically I was going into gen surg up until this summer. Got a little burnt out doing an away rotation and it did not seem like a good program compared to my other rotations. Now interviewing in my new specialty but still think about gen surg. Is it too late for me to apply to gen surg programs?

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[sinombre]

It’s probably too late to apply. Keep in mind the attrition rate for general surgery residency is 20%. If you were burnt out as a student, how do you think you’ll do as a resident, doing much more work with more pressure and responsibility for at least 5 years without a break longer than a week at a time?

You can always transfer into a program or re-apply next year if you decide it’s what you really want to do.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yes, its too late for almost everyone one unless you want to take your chances with a Prelim position.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

MS4 here. Created a new account to post this. Basically I was going into gen surg up until this summer. Got a little burnt out doing an away rotation and it did not seem like a good program compared to my other rotations. Now interviewing in my new specialty but still think about gen surg. Is it too late for me to apply to gen surg programs?

Are you applying to a surgical field? If not and you're absolutely sure you want surgery, you may consider applying and if you don't get any interviews, delay graduation with no match this year.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

It’s probably too late to apply. Keep in mind the attrition rate for general surgery residency is 20%. If you were burnt out as a student, how do you think you’ll do as a resident, doing much more work with more pressure and responsibility for at least 5 years without a break longer than a week at a time?

You can always transfer into a program or re-apply next year if you decide it’s what you really want to do.

Really? 20%. What happens to all the spots that are open?

 

[LucidSplash]

Really? 20%. What happens to all the spots that are open?

Most of that is in the first couple of years. Most of those get filled by prelims who want to stay in surgery or people transferring programs.

Open Training Positions | Association of Program Directors in Surgery

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Most of that is in the first couple of years. Most of those get filled by prelims who want to stay in surgery or people transferring programs.

Open Training Positions | Association of Program Directors in Surgery

In looking at the openings, I am really surprised to see some of the programs listed. Do you know if it is even harder to apply for these openings/very competitive?

 

[LucidSplash]

In looking at the openings, I am really surprised to see some of the programs listed. Do you know if it is even harder to apply for these openings/very competitive?

No idea. I never had to transfer.

 

[VincentAdultman]

I feel like if an away burned you out gen surg might not be for you.

 

[956386]

i found one program that is still accepting applications; anyone know of any others? I'll also apply to prelim and transitional years.

 

[Jolie South]

In looking at the openings, I am really surprised to see some of the programs listed. Do you know if it is even harder to apply for these openings/very competitive?

Long story but I found myself looking at open second year spots way back when. I went to interview and literally it was people competitive enough for surgical sub specialties who were all there to land one spot. I don’t know if it’s the same elsewhere.

 

[LucidSplash]

i found one program that is still accepting applications; anyone know of any others? I'll also apply to prelim and transitional years.

Maybe you should ask in the application subforum. I don’t know about others but I’m several years out of the loop on Gen Surg programs except the one I trained at. Maybe your peers would have better info and notice your post there. You could post in the application thread I suppose.

Surgical Residency Applications and Interviews

 

[Winged Scapula]

In looking at the openings, I am really surprised to see some of the programs listed. Do you know if it is even harder to apply for these openings/very competitive?

Why are you surprised?

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Why are you surprised?

I thought that those programs, some of which have multiple openings, would not have vacancies. I am sure they have over 500 applications and some of the most qualified people from around the world applying. Much to my chagrin I am wrong.

 

[TraumaLlamaMD]

Having an opening now doesn’t mean they didn’t fill in the match. Someone may have left the program for any number of reasons. Attrition happens even at prestigious programs.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Having an opening now doesn’t mean they didn’t fill in the match. Someone may have left the program for any number of reasons. Attrition happens even at prestigious programs.

Thank you, I did not think of the former as a possibility. Now the latter is what I considered, it just surprised me to see many holes in some programs. I guess that should give me a little hope or maybe not.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thank you, I did not think of the former as a possibility. Now the latter is what I considered, it just surprised me to see many holes in some programs. I guess that should give me a little hope or maybe not.

As noted above, attrition is the likely reason for the "holes in the program". It may also be related to people coming in and out of the lab and having funding for another if they are short a certain year.

Nonetheless, residency is difficult, and surgical residencies are known to be especially so. Some will leave because they SOAPed into a surgical position and never wanted to be a surgeon, others are unhappy, others transition/transfer into a surgical subspecialty, some/few may leave due to illness or family concerns. If more than 1 leaves every year from the same program, then you should worry.

Also the VAST majority of open positions are for fellowships, many of which may be new, not accredited, etc. Fellowships often have open positions. I mean, not many people are applying for "Global Health" or "Advanced Surgery" etc.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

As noted above, attrition is the likely reason for the "holes in the program". It may also be related to people coming in and out of the lab and having funding for another if they are short a certain year.

Nonetheless, residency is difficult, and surgical residencies are known to be especially so. Some will leave because they SOAPed into a surgical position and never wanted to be a surgeon, others are unhappy, others transition/transfer into a surgical subspecialty, some/few may leave due to illness or family concerns. If more than 1 leaves every year from the same program, then you should worry.

Also the VAST majority of open positions are for fellowships, many of which may be new, not accredited, etc. Fellowships often have open positions. I mean, not many people are applying for "Global Health" or "Advanced Surgery" etc.

I appreciate the insight and I agree. I thought surgery was competitive and soaping into surgery was not even an option.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I appreciate the insight and I agree. I thought surgery was competitive and soaping into surgery was not even an option.

Not into a categorical position but no one wants the Prelim positions, so they're giving them away (although admittedly with the squeeze on residency positions available per med school grads, even Prelim Surgery is becoming more popular).

 

[956386]

thanks for all the help everyone. I have all my letters now. I really don't know of many programs that are still accepting applications. I could send out a few apps and if I don't get interviews then delay graduation and re apply next year. I would much rather do that than prelim somewhere and apply again. I feel like I have a decent application step I 238 step II 248.

I know programs will question my dedication since I was doing surgery all summer then switched to psych but I was genuinely interested in psych but after a few rotations and interviews have realized its not for me.

So what do you all think? Apply to a handful of programs and if no II then delay graduation? Or apply to prelim years?