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Top 10/20 Anesthesia residencies

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by Jubal, Dec 29, 2001.

  1. Jubal

    Jubal Member
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    Not easy to determine the most succesful (academics, research, clinical exposure). I know there a re many "good" programs where one can train excellent for their future. However, keeping in mind the holistic approach, here's my take:

    NY Pres.-Cornell
    Wake Forest Univ.
    Univ. of Washington Seattle
    UCLA Med Center
    UCSF
    MassGen
    Med Colleges of Wisconsin
    Johns Hopkins
    UPenn
    U Alabama

    Emory
    U of Michigan
    UCSD
    Indiana
    NYPresb-Columbia
    UFlorida-Gainsville
    U Tex Med Branch-Galveston
    Mayo
    North-Western Chiacago
    Brigham&Women's
    =================================
    close: Mount Sinai NY, USC Los Angeles, UT Houston, Thomas Jefferson, SouthWestern Dallas, St. Lukes Roosevelt NYC, U of Chicago, Ohio Columbus, etc.

    Ok, that's alredy top 25 and whoever trains at these programs should feel lucky. There might be programs I ommitted, that's why I don;t like these rankings, but hey, I'm waiting to be criticized! It will only improve the ranking.
     
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  3. gasrx

    gasrx Member
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    unless your have personally visited/interviewed all these places I can not see how your could make up such a list. I was not at all impressed with Thomas Jefferson, and would definately place UPenn behind Brigham. I don't know anything about the west coast programs
     
  4. Sandpaper

    Sandpaper Member
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    All I gotta say is, waaaaay off. What kinda list is this? I can't even begin to point out the deficiencies in this ranking. Worthless.
     
  5. navs

    navs Member
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    Dude I don't know where u came up with ur list but it is WAY OFF!!

    The truth is there is a lot of debate outside the top 4 programs in the country.

    The top 4 that ALMOST EVERYONE agrees on are:

    UCSF, Hopkins, Mass. General, and Brigham and Womens.

    After that u have ur: Stanfords and Duke close behind.

    Then great programs like: Cornell, Med. College of Wisconsin and etc...

    The easiest way to rank an anesth. program is how good the surgery programs are!!

    I would love to hear what others think since someone already started this debate!!

    p.s. I do believe my top 4 is pretty much right though!!
     
  6. Jubal

    Jubal Member
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    I have to correct myself: there's no particular order I listed the batch of 20 programs. While I agree with the top 4 I would not say the ranking is wao off. These are the best programs, maybe,as I said not in the aleatory order I lsited them.
    There's different ways to gauge the "worht" of a program. Let's say if we go by number of patient referrals to anesthesia: 1. MassGen, 2. NYP(Columbia+Cornell) 3. UCLA Med Ctr. Simple as that.
    Another way is to look at the recruitemnt through the match of US seniors. For more see <a href="http://www.grogono.com/nrmp/index.html" target="_blank">web page</a> data tables--&gt;top 20 schoolsand programs.
    True, how well surgery does, reflects indirectly the size, composition, etc of the Anesthesia residency program. One needs to have a varied surgical pathology in order to roatte the anesth resident through the required cases.

    Yet another indication is the research money received from NIH; go and see the ranking there: anesthesia departments.

    Again my mistake: tehr was no ranking in my intention, just a "pooling" o the top 20 programs.
    However, we can start the ranking. we're at number 5... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
     
  7. navs

    navs Member
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    Okay sorry about getting to abrupt with u. Didn't know they were not in any particular order. U are right there are many ways to rank programs (prescence of big name attendings/ chief, rep., and research)

    I think if u are trying to rank programs consistently it is the research that seperates how much respect a program gets in the academic community (a la presitigous programs).

    That is why no one argues with the top 4: UCSF, Hopkins, Mass. General, and Brigham.

    After that many seem to bring up: Stanford and Duke.

    Some comments on the original list: U. of Washington (Even though a top pain place for fellowship is just ordinary, in most opinions, as an overall program), U. of Alabama, Indiana (Even though Stoelting is there), Galveston program, and all the programs under the "CLOSE:" column (except U of Chicago) I have never heard a whimper from in the academic community. Others I coud definetly see and have heard many say are good programs!!

    BUT still have no clue who would be after the top 4 and Stanford and Duke?? Anyone like to suggest after interviewing??

    Love this debate though!!
     
  8. gasrx

    gasrx Member
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    From my interviews, I would have to place Yale and UPenn up in the top 15 programs. I have heard that Dartmouth and the University of Rochester (NY)have very strong program. I would not even rank Jefferson in my top 25 programs. The ICU experience is absolutely non-existant. They sleep and read during there ICU rotations without any direct patient care.
     
  9. Yogi Patel

    Yogi Patel Junior Member
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    According to the NIH, these are the top departments in terms of annual NIH funding for fiscal year 2000. Clearly, not the only measure of quality but at least they are hard numbers...

    1 JOHNS HOPKINS $5,181,187
    2 WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY $4,124,614
    3 UC SAN FRANCISCO $4,039,927
    4 DUKE UNIVERSITY $3,769,062
    5 UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON $3,331,605
    6 UNIV OF PENNSYLVANIA $3,190,295
    7 UNIV OF PITTSBURGH $3,183,275
    8 MEDICAL COL WISCONSIN $2,924,643
    9 UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA $2,834,689
    10 YALE UNIVERSITY $2,344,534
    11 UNIVERSITY OF IOWA $2,214,335
    12 UC LOS ANGELES $2,057,481
    13 CORNELL UNIVERSITY $1,817,020
    14 VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY $1,621,373
    15 UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN $1,484,356
    16 STANFORD UNIVERSITY $1,266,399
    17 UC SAN DIEGO $1,258,206
    18 WAKE FOREST UNIV $1,141,787
    19 COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY $1,079,113
    20 UNIV OF TX GALVESTON $948,031
    21 UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN $742,143
    22 UNIVERSITY OF UTAH $548,265
    23 DARTMOUTH MEDICAL SCHOOL $514,927
    24 SUNY STONY BROOK HLTH $471,591
    25 CHARLES R. DREW UNIVERSITY $448,771
    26 UNIV OF ROCHESTER $438,521
    27 PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIV $412,184
    28 UNIV OF ARKANSAS $394,500
    29 UNC CHAPEL HILL $362,233
    30 U ILLINOIS CHICAGO $356,570
    31 U MARYLAND BALTIMORE $346,939
    32 UC DAVIS $346,506
    33 SUNY BUFFALO $322,757
    34 UNIV OF COLORADO $268,892
    35 CASE WESTERN RESERVE $258,216
    36 SUNY BROOKLYN NEW YORK $253,695
    37 OHIO STATE $243,236
    38 UC IRVINE $242,943
    39 UMDNJ RWJ PISCATAWAY $213,213
    40 BAYLOR COL HOUSTON $187,233
    41 UMDNJ NEWARK $186,149
    42 UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA $166,865
    43 UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE $149,718
    44 JEFFERSON MEDICAL $65,480
    45 UNIV OF CHICAGO $50,121
    46 TULANE UNIVERSITY $3,000
     
  10. gasrx

    gasrx Member
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    where are the Boston programs? I have to believe that MGH or the Brigham bring in greater than $3000 in NIH grants. You have to also keep in mind that some programs include their basic science grants and peds grants in the department total. While other programs completely separate them.
     
  11. navs

    navs Member
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    I can answer the Boston program funding.

    ALL the Harvard programs (Brigham and Mass., maybe Beth Israel also) come under the funding for Harvard Medical School. Which if they added that stat would probably have at least 25-50% of total NIH grant money.

    Don't ask me why they don't separate the stats for the different Harvard hospitals, but they don't.
     
  12. navs

    navs Member
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    Forgot to give my 2 cents in about U Penn and Yale which were mentioned.

    Yale, for some ODD reason, is NEVER mentioned when one talks about good anesth. programs. For that matter they are never mentioned in any field as an awesome place to train. Always found that odd being such a presitigious uni. why their res. programs are just okay??

    U. Penn some think is a good program, but many don't think it is that great. So, various opinions on this program. Not sure why, but no matter what I think at best can be considered top 15-25, doubtful any higher up.
     
  13. Jubal

    Jubal Member
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    Unfortunately Navs is not right, or he is on the right direction, but the situation is exactly the opposite he describes. The list is for Universities/Departments of Anesthesiology. Well, we cannot see any Harvard, can we? Instead, if you go at another list:
    "NIH Support to independent Hospitals, Fiscal Year2000"
    1. Mass Gen. 180,530,000$
    2. Brigham&Women's 162,532,000$
    4. Beth Israel 82,108,000$
    Unfortunately these are per total hospital, so we are unable to find out how much gets pumped into anesthesia research.
    I cannot give an answer why, at departmental level, Harvard is not showing up in Anesthesiology at all...cos it is showing up in other specialties tables as "Harvard Medical School". Actually at a closer look, all the departments where Harvard is ranked are pre-clinical. That explains it. For the clinical departments, the ranking is just per total clinical research at each site, not per departemnt. We can just add up the numbers above and find out the whole for Clinical research at Harvard Affiliates.

    Harvard Medical School is ranked at position 18 with total Amount 124,373,656 $. Johns Hopkins ranks number one with total Amount 304,762,077 $.
    I would assume that Harvard Medical School represents only the preclinical departments. One should add what all 3 independent hospitals bring in each for clinical research and there we go aprox 425 million plus 125 million equals: 550 million. Quite impressive, however very far from 50% of NIH research money....far even from 25%.
     
  14. navs

    navs Member
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    Very informative thanks Jubal.

    I didn't mean to say I understood totally, just that I KNOW FOR A FACT their funding is described under HMS and not under the Department of Anesthesia for each hospital. And I guess what u have stated supports my original comment!!

    It seems neither of us, nor anyone out there, knows why the departments are not mentioned individually. Does anyone??
     
  15. gasrx

    gasrx Member
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    PD from the top anesthesia programs have all said to me that Yale and UPenn are both excellent programs. Looking at the programs first hand, I see very little difference academic wise when compared to the Brigham and Hopkins. I would rank them a half a tier below Brigham and Hopkins. They probably live in the shadows of both programs in a small sort of way.
     
  16. navs

    navs Member
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    Good info. gasrx. Thanks for sharing!!

    Yeah I just meant it doesn't seem many people outwardly talk about these 2 programs. Seems u have to ask people before they mention their names, that's all.

    If u just go on curriculum though I have to warn that every program in the country is pretty much exactly the same!! The rotations, no. of hrs, and no. of procedures needed in each rotation are similar, due to strict ABA guidelines on such things.

    That is why I agreed with Jubal about research and rep. really being the difference between these "Top25" and the rest. I don't think it is coincidence that UCSF is the best and Miller is the Chair there or Hopkins and the Harvard programs are also in the top 4 and they are presitigious universities!!

    But I do agree with u, I don't think u can go wrong with Yale or U Penn., just like u couldn't go wrong with other good programs.
     

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