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Anyone have any thoughts on what the top 5 clinical ortho programs in the US are?
I believe he wanted top 5 clinical programs. I've heard St. Louis is strong clinically among others.
How do you measure "clinically strong?" I recall at Montefiore, the first years were bragging about having started 100 cases or something absurd like that and it was only October. I didn't bother asking them to define what "start" means, but I guess that kind of a statement could push you up to the clinically strong program category. Or how about a program like Mayo where it is 1 resident per year and you are carrying like 100+ patients by the time you get to third year. Sure sounds like there are a lot of clinical opportunities there compared to St. Louis where they start 30ish cases (according to one of the other threads).
Top names I have heard include UNC, Washington, Connecticut, Michigan... but there is also a lot of big research coming out of those places too.
I believe he wanted top 5 clinical programs. I've heard St. Louis is strong clinically among others.
this is off topic, but i recall someone mentioning a program that did not accept applicants who were fresh out of d-school. i thought it was it Montefiore. or am i imagining things? any idea which program i might be referring to?
this is off topic, but i recall someone mentioning a program that did not accept applicants who were fresh out of d-school. i thought it was it Montefiore. or am i imagining things? any idea which program i might be referring to?
Mayo is a great program, would be my #1 if i got an interview. i gotta say i was impressed by Montefiore, 3rd yrs were saying around 90 pts - plus technologically advanced (all digital, etc) over there. i ranked VCU #1 though - nice clinic, plenty of assistants and support, etc. Washington's got a solid program as well. other places to look out for: Nebraska, Einstein (in Philly) clinically very strong and gives the highest stipend in the country, Michigan, UNC.
Clinical ortho? I can tell you what some good ortho programs are but I am not sure if they would all be known as "top 5".
Houston
Baylor
UNC
VCU
Iowa
Florida
Washington
Oregon
The way I see it....you can learn as much theory as you want, but unless you are actually able to apply it while you are in school you aren't gonna learn a damn thing. Obviously some learning has to happen once you graduate too, but then that's why they call it a dental "practice"...hehe Don't really feel like spending a whole lot of time doing research either!
So I guess the top 5 clinical from what everyone is saying would have to be (in no particular order)...
Washington, UNC, Michigan, Montefiore and one of (St. Louis/Baylor/Connecticut/VCU)
Does this sound right...or are any of the big ones missing?!
Any other comments about the facilities/stipends/tuition fees/profs/crime rates/etc...
According to TM Graber, ortho programs of the west coast are the best.. he told me that UIC is one of the best...
I'd like to know more about UIC's program as I'm doing my residency there... I believe they have an excellent staff but I don't know much about their facilities... why do you think they are dungy?!
What are the thoughts on Iowa's Program?
Top "clinical" program to me means prepares you for private practice in the best way possible. I would interpret this as getting experience in the newest and best techniques. Right now I would base my choice of top clinical programs on two things: 1) Placement of/utilization of miniscrews and palatal implant anchorage and 2) wide variety of brackets and techniques with a focus on self ligation.
Self ligation and absolute anchorage are the future. If you are learning a bunch of Tweed like at Michigan or Oklahoma you are doing nothing for yourself. Learning it is great, but you won't ever utilize it in private practice. Self ligation is key. Almost 35-40% of my cases are self ligation at my program. It is key to get experience with these brackets as they are a little different than the traditional types. 15% of my cases have miniscrews or palatal implants. That is great experience for me and I feel pretty good about using them when I get done now. It isn't quite as simple as just sinkem and usem. As for the number of starts issue, I think 50-70 is great if you want strong clinical. 25-40, like some programs mentioned above, is too few to feel really confident about what you are doing in most situations. Even if the extra ones are just class Is it is important to get a few more cases under your belt. 100 is too many. There is no way that you can get any sort of proper supervision with that many cases, but I'm sure you learn a lot anyway.
If you just want the "top five" regardless of clinical or not
UNC
Washington
Baylor
Michigan
Florida
Top "clinical" program to me means prepares you for private practice in the best way possible. I would interpret this as getting experience in the newest and best techniques. Right now I would base my choice of top clinical programs on two things: 1) Placement of/utilization of miniscrews and palatal implant anchorage and 2) wide variety of brackets and techniques with a focus on self ligation.
Self ligation and absolute anchorage are the future. If you are learning a bunch of Tweed like at Michigan or Oklahoma you are doing nothing for yourself. Learning it is great, but you won't ever utilize it in private practice. Self ligation is key. Almost 35-40% of my cases are self ligation at my program. It is key to get experience with these brackets as they are a little different than the traditional types. 15% of my cases have miniscrews or palatal implants. That is great experience for me and I feel pretty good about using them when I get done now. It isn't quite as simple as just sinkem and usem. As for the number of starts issue, I think 50-70 is great if you want strong clinical. 25-40, like some programs mentioned above, is too few to feel really confident about what you are doing in most situations. Even if the extra ones are just class Is it is important to get a few more cases under your belt. 100 is too many. There is no way that you can get any sort of proper supervision with that many cases, but I'm sure you learn a lot anyway.
If you just want the "top five" regardless of clinical or not
UNC
Washington
Baylor
Michigan
Forida
What does everyone think about the program at Tufts?? Just curious since thats where I matched.
Anyone have any thoughts?
I'm going to add another dimension to this discussion if you are interested in the best clinical training.
My feeling is that fewer full time clinical faculty may be better if you have a lot of good part time faculty that come in on a regular basis for purely clinical training. Many full time faculty either don't have as much clinical experience or are too grounded in "evidence based" to see reality. Does this mean you shouldn't read the literature and follow it the best you can? Of course not, but you should be aware that there are many ways to do things and sometimes newer is better. We have several part timers at my program that come in every other week that used to be full time faculty. It has been interesting to watch them grow over time (one of them is even using Damon now). Private practice is much different than full time faculty probably realize.
No to Damon because it is a fad that will pass shortly.
I have seen a lot of strange stuff with my Damon cases vorosvirag. Very strange things. Our guy that is using it has compiled all of his cases consecutively and has shown the good and bad. There is a lot more good than bad. I'm not convinced that it is a fad at this stage. I don't think it is any different than any other self ligating appliance, but I think self ligating is important. Particularly passive SL in the early stages of treatment- level and align. I like to have a more active clip in the later stages but darn if my Damon cases aren't going well.
I have seen a lot of strange stuff with my Damon cases vorosvirag.
The intention of my earlier post was to make it clear that some ortho dept. faculty claim that Damon's system will soon fall by the way side. I've heard a "prominent" program director say that Damon's stuff is a fad that will fade. I don't know how these people can say such things. I believe that Damon and other self-ligation systems are here to stay and should only improve w/ continued modifications. The % of orthodontists using self-ligation is steadily growing.
This follows my broader message that many full-time faculty at ortho programs are slightly to greatly out of touch--not only w/ private practice, but also w/ the positives of current trends.
I have a handful of Damon cases right now that are only a few months into tx. I'm excited to follow their progress. I'm also going to get into other self-ligation shortly.
Top "clinical" program to me means prepares you for private practice in the best way possible. I would interpret this as getting experience in the newest and best techniques. Right now I would base my choice of top clinical programs on two things: 1) Placement of/utilization of miniscrews and palatal implant anchorage and 2) wide variety of brackets and techniques with a focus on self ligation.
Self ligation and absolute anchorage are the future. If you are learning a bunch of Tweed like at Michigan or Oklahoma you are doing nothing for yourself. Learning it is great, but you won't ever utilize it in private practice. Self ligation is key. Almost 35-40% of my cases are self ligation at my program. It is key to get experience with these brackets as they are a little different than the traditional types. 15% of my cases have miniscrews or palatal implants. That is great experience for me and I feel pretty good about using them when I get done now. It isn't quite as simple as just sinkem and usem. As for the number of starts issue, I think 50-70 is great if you want strong clinical. 25-40, like some programs mentioned above, is too few to feel really confident about what you are doing in most situations. Even if the extra ones are just class Is it is important to get a few more cases under your belt. 100 is too many. There is no way that you can get any sort of proper supervision with that many cases, but I'm sure you learn a lot anyway.
If you just want the "top five" regardless of clinical or not
UNC
Washington
Baylor
Michigan
Forida
You probably won't use implants in private practice, unless you sink them yourself. Watch your malpractice insurance shoot through the roof, and your practice efficiency decrease.
I don't think miniscrews will have a huge impact on Malpractice. (ie If you don't have to use local anesthesia then risk is probably negligible.) I'll admit the plates are more invasive and I wouldn't touch them myself. I also feel that the two minutes it takes to place the miniscrews is definitely worth the anchorage provided in terms of practice efficiency. When indicated they are awesome and extremely helpful for your biomechanics.
You probably won't use implants in private practice, unless you sink them yourself. Watch your malpractice insurance shoot through the roof, and your practice efficiency decrease.
You'll always use local anesthestic. Anytime you use local, or perform surgery your malpractice insurance increases
Some have a masters and some don't.
1) location- it is difficult to move across the country if you don't have connections
just to clarify...
are you speaking of getting into a program accross the country is difficult without connections or the move itself being difficult?
it is possible to get in without connections... the move itself might be a bigger hassle
I believe the current AAO malpractice policy covers TAD placement and diode lasers.