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Would you consider UNC a top clinical program? I was thinking more of the northeast schools. There are lots of patients, and perks(assistants, facilities,etc.) to help manage these patients.
Top 5 ortho schools?
- Thread starter pocket aces
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Would you consider UNC a top clinical program? I was thinking more of the northeast schools. There are lots of patients, and perks(assistants, facilities,etc.) to help manage these patients.
I would consider UNC to be a top clinical program, but as stated before I am biased. However, despite attending dental school here I didn't realize how strong they are clinically until after I started residency.
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I have to assume that UNC is a top clinical program. Proffit and his team have almost surely organized a great program. I wasn't granted an interview there to check the place out, but I believe I'm safe to say the program is in good working order.
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Can you tell us a bit about the program that makes it strong clinically? I would appreciate it!
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No input?
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My view of a strong clinical program:
- lots of time in the clinic seeing patients
- many philosophies, bracket systems, and appliances utilized
- less of an emphasis on research and associated Master's classes
- lots of time in the clinic seeing patients
- many philosophies, bracket systems, and appliances utilized
- less of an emphasis on research and associated Master's classes
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I think you're right. I just figured asking a resident in the program was a good way of doing some of that "homework."
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I still think you have to see lots of patients. 100+ is a good number.
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You don't mean starting 100 cases, do you? 100+ in your patient family is more likely what you mean, right?
I am sorry. Ever since I discovered the stock market I don't come on here as often. I did see your question earlier. I procrastinated hoping that one of my fellow residents would chime in and answer it for me. It will be a rather lengthy response to explain all that we have clinically. I do have good intentions of answering the question at some point.
Go UNC Heels and go BYU Cougars!
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Fellow Heel,.
Not one for giving advice unsolicited but I've been "attempting" the stock market thing for over 13 years..........it can be a real crap shoot........(if I only had all the potential retirement savings I've lost through timing and day trading)
Go Heels
Not one for giving advice unsolicited but I've been "attempting" the stock market thing for over 13 years..........it can be a real crap shoot........(if I only had all the potential retirement savings I've lost through timing and day trading)
Go Heels
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Yeah starting 100 cases, and taking lots of pics. Atleast every 2-3 months.
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100 starts is an awful lot. What does everyone think?
I've got close to 55 right now. I'll inherit another bunch (50+) when my big brother leaves.
Were you in the first class at Jacksonville, Firm? Is that why you might have started 100 cases? Did you get any transfers?
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I haven't started my residency yet, but I think 100 starts sounds like too many. I base this on the fact that many orthodontists that have been in private practice for many years settle in at about 200 - 225 starts per year working 4 days a week. I figure a resident shouldn't be trying to do half or even a fourth as many starts as a seasoned orthodontist. Otherwise, where do you find time to actually learn about what you are doing, and why?
Maybe I am just really slow and dumb, but I would want to spend more time learning about diagnosis and treatment planning and less time learning to be an assembly line.
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I agree with Jaybe. I haven't started my residency yet either, so take it for what it's worth, but I think that 100 seems like too much. Of the 12 programs I have visited, 100 starts seems to be double the number of starts that any of those schools are reporting, except Montefiore which is a 3 year with ~40 hours/week in clinic and they were reporting ~80 if I remember correctly. Someone mentioned Firm being at Jacksonville, which I believe is a 2 year deal, and that makes 100 starts sound even that much more crazy. In my inexperienced opinion I feel that number of starts DOES NOT equal quality of clinical education. I understand that you may see more things by starting 100 cases; but do you have the time to assimilate what you are learning and analyze each patients' situation throughout treatment or are you just going through the motions? I don't know.
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You have to remember that there will be some that drop. So your total number of patients will be around 120-135(40-50 from your big sib). It is a lot to manage but challenging yourself is the best way to learn. It's not only a lesson in orthodontics, but in time and patient management. Most of your learning will occur when the patient is not in the office. This is why taking photos is so critical. After you get 8-9 months into treatment and have 3-4 sets of photos, you can really sit down (in the privacy of your own home) and evaluate what you've done. It's really great if you go to a big program like Jacksonville, and 27 other resdidents are doing the same thing. You can review 1000's of cases during your training. The single most important tool you can have in orthodontics is diagnosis. I see so many mistakes in diagnosis at the practice that I work in now(ie extracting upper 4's because you have an overjet of 7mm).
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OK Tarheel, I bit.
This isn't saying UNC is clinically superior to anywhere (though it seems to make most top 5 lists). It's just to show the experience we get here. I'm sure every program out there has some or all of these experiences in some way/shape/form.
Clinically, UNC residents start about 65 traditional cases in the grad clinic their first 8 months (plus probably 15-20 more transfer cases that I personally received this spring). We treat another 15-20 in a local community clinic one day a month in the latter part of our residency, and work up about 20 cases in the dentofacial deformities clinic during the second year of residency plus a several more in the craniofacial clinic during third year. So clinically, you get boat loads of experience diagnosing and treatment planning (IMO, one of the more important parts of learning to be a good 'clinical' orthodontist).
There are 6 full-time and 7 part-time faculty that residents treat patients with, so there is a bunch of indoctrination in both "this is the way it's always been" and "this is the way it is in the real world." As a result, residents get everything from HG, Herbsts, functional appliances, indirect bonding to Bioprogressive to heavy Burstone mechanics to self-ligation (Damon, Inovation), mini-screws and mini-plates, CBCT, and lingual braces. There is such a range...just depends on the faculty. The neat thing is that different perspectives provide a lot of opportunity to personalize what you what to do a few years from now in private practice. Again, another clinical strength in my eyes.
Our program director, a recent addition from Mayo Clinic (i.e. the 'loads of cases treated all in a similar way' philosphy) and another part-time faculty have been revamping the flow of clinic time for residents to increae the number of patients seen while preserving the variety of treatment techniques taught. Residents progress from one chair treatment (1st year) to multiple chairs by the time their 3rd year comes around (a bit more like private practice). There is also tons of practice management over three years. Improving speed and efficiency in clinic + learning how to clinically manage patient flow = another clinical plus.
Residents also are also treated to "enrichment seminars" that are often clinically themed: everything from the aforementioned DeClerck visits to discuss bone plate use, to Mike Schwartz visiting to talk about clinical implications of various wires and bonding techniques to Uncle Bob discussing clinical implementation of imaging technologies to Weichman visiting to lecture on lingual braces...all things that relate to how clincal care is delivered or facilitated. Each day, an attending for the day provided a clinical seminar as well for 1st year residents: everything from treating expansion cases to class II correction to space-closure methods, etc. These seminars are, IMO, a huge plus that I never saw coming before starting the residency here.
Hopefully that touches a bit on what you wanted, Helico (and anyone else interested). Certainly there are likely areas UNC could be even better; overall I feel like my clinical experience here is fabulous, though. I'm sure Tarheel will chime in if I missed anything.
Go Heels!
This isn't saying UNC is clinically superior to anywhere (though it seems to make most top 5 lists). It's just to show the experience we get here. I'm sure every program out there has some or all of these experiences in some way/shape/form.
Clinically, UNC residents start about 65 traditional cases in the grad clinic their first 8 months (plus probably 15-20 more transfer cases that I personally received this spring). We treat another 15-20 in a local community clinic one day a month in the latter part of our residency, and work up about 20 cases in the dentofacial deformities clinic during the second year of residency plus a several more in the craniofacial clinic during third year. So clinically, you get boat loads of experience diagnosing and treatment planning (IMO, one of the more important parts of learning to be a good 'clinical' orthodontist).
There are 6 full-time and 7 part-time faculty that residents treat patients with, so there is a bunch of indoctrination in both "this is the way it's always been" and "this is the way it is in the real world." As a result, residents get everything from HG, Herbsts, functional appliances, indirect bonding to Bioprogressive to heavy Burstone mechanics to self-ligation (Damon, Inovation), mini-screws and mini-plates, CBCT, and lingual braces. There is such a range...just depends on the faculty. The neat thing is that different perspectives provide a lot of opportunity to personalize what you what to do a few years from now in private practice. Again, another clinical strength in my eyes.
Our program director, a recent addition from Mayo Clinic (i.e. the 'loads of cases treated all in a similar way' philosphy) and another part-time faculty have been revamping the flow of clinic time for residents to increae the number of patients seen while preserving the variety of treatment techniques taught. Residents progress from one chair treatment (1st year) to multiple chairs by the time their 3rd year comes around (a bit more like private practice). There is also tons of practice management over three years. Improving speed and efficiency in clinic + learning how to clinically manage patient flow = another clinical plus.
Residents also are also treated to "enrichment seminars" that are often clinically themed: everything from the aforementioned DeClerck visits to discuss bone plate use, to Mike Schwartz visiting to talk about clinical implications of various wires and bonding techniques to Uncle Bob discussing clinical implementation of imaging technologies to Weichman visiting to lecture on lingual braces...all things that relate to how clincal care is delivered or facilitated. Each day, an attending for the day provided a clinical seminar as well for 1st year residents: everything from treating expansion cases to class II correction to space-closure methods, etc. These seminars are, IMO, a huge plus that I never saw coming before starting the residency here.
Hopefully that touches a bit on what you wanted, Helico (and anyone else interested). Certainly there are likely areas UNC could be even better; overall I feel like my clinical experience here is fabulous, though. I'm sure Tarheel will chime in if I missed anything.
Go Heels!
OK Tarheel, I bit.
This isn't saying UNC is clinically superior to anywhere (though it seems to make most top 5 lists). It's just to show the experience we get here. I'm sure every program out there has some or all of these experiences in some way/shape/form.
Clinically, UNC residents start about 65 traditional cases in the grad clinic their first 8 months (plus probably 15-20 more transfer cases that I personally received this spring). We treat another 15-20 in a local community clinic one day a month in the latter part of our residency, and work up about 20 cases in the dentofacial deformities clinic during the second year of residency plus a several more in the craniofacial clinic during third year. So clinically, you get boat loads of experience diagnosing and treatment planning (IMO, one of the more important parts of learning to be a good 'clinical' orthodontist).
There are 6 full-time and 7 part-time faculty that residents treat patients with, so there is a bunch of indoctrination in both "this is the way it's always been" and "this is the way it is in the real world." As a result, residents get everything from HG, Herbsts, functional appliances, indirect bonding to Bioprogressive to heavy Burstone mechanics to self-ligation (Damon, Inovation), mini-screws and mini-plates, CBCT, and lingual braces. There is such a range...just depends on the faculty. The neat thing is that different perspectives provide a lot of opportunity to personalize what you what to do a few years from now in private practice. Again, another clinical strength in my eyes.
Our program director, a recent addition from Mayo Clinic (i.e. the 'loads of cases treated all in a similar way' philosphy) and another part-time faculty have been revamping the flow of clinic time for residents to increae the number of patients seen while preserving the variety of treatment techniques taught. Residents progress from one chair treatment (1st year) to multiple chairs by the time their 3rd year comes around (a bit more like private practice). There is also tons of practice management over three years. Improving speed and efficiency in clinic + learning how to clinically manage patient flow = another clinical plus.
Residents also are also treated to "enrichment seminars" that are often clinically themed: everything from the aforementioned DeClerck visits to discuss bone plate use, to Mike Schwartz visiting to talk about clinical implications of various wires and bonding techniques to Uncle Bob discussing clinical implementation of imaging technologies to Weichman visiting to lecture on lingual braces...all things that relate to how clincal care is delivered or facilitated. Each day, an attending for the day provided a clinical seminar as well for 1st year residents: everything from treating expansion cases to class II correction to space-closure methods, etc. These seminars are, IMO, a huge plus that I never saw coming before starting the residency here.
Hopefully that touches a bit on what you wanted, Helico (and anyone else interested). Certainly there are likely areas UNC could be even better; overall I feel like my clinical experience here is fabulous, though. I'm sure Tarheel will chime in if I missed anything.
Go Heels!
Thanks JP. I hoped you would field that one. (We all know that you are more articulate with the Pen and faster at typing than I am. Although I wish you had drawn a diagramn using Microsft paint to demonstrate biomechanical space closure techniques.)
(By the way Heels are in the Elite eight.) Go Heels!
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any ideas on how to get into ortho? what it takes, what we need to do, when we should even start thinking about this stuff?
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I wonder why no one mention Harvard ? Is Harvard "supposedly" to be the best school in the world ? Anyone ?
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would like to know this as well
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The top 5 ortho programs:
1. The one that you get into
2. The one that you get into
3. The one that you get into
Tie 4/5: the shortest length/the least expensive
Having a MS or PhD means squat to patients or employers (most patients don't even know orthodontists have additional training after dental school). As with general dentistry, the bulk of your learning will happen when you step foot into the real world.
1. The one that you get into
2. The one that you get into
3. The one that you get into
Tie 4/5: the shortest length/the least expensive
Having a MS or PhD means squat to patients or employers (most patients don't even know orthodontists have additional training after dental school). As with general dentistry, the bulk of your learning will happen when you step foot into the real world.
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