Top student wants to know what the disadvantages are to applying without an MCAT score.

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That's INSANE! Professors fail over half the class? What the hell is the reasoning behind this, I can understand wanting to make use of a large distribution of grades and maybe a C median if they're really old-school, but giving the majority of people F and D grades gives the class zero ability to judge their success and doesn't seem to benefit anybody

We were often blamed for "not trying hard enough" and that "everyone should be getting B's if they put forth the effort". Yet, each year these same few classes had averages in the low 60's, at least for my entire duration there. I never understood it and wanted to express how awesome those B's were in my interviews. But, I didn't and it never affected me.

 

[efle]

I'm surprised anybody signed up for that class, you think word would come down from the upperclassmen that the prof didn't respect the efforts of his students and failed most people

 

[iBro]

There will still be plenty of opportunities for practice and I guarantee Kaplan, TPR and the like will have score estimators out ASAP. And there are always %ile estimates to fall back on.

People act like this is the first time a standardized test has undergone a major change.

For sure and I wasn't necessarily lamenting the changes. What I meant was that most people have a good idea of what they will score by averaging official aamc practice exams, something that won't be possible for a few years.

Yes you can use scores from secondary sources to predict your actual score, but it will be far less accurate.

 

[iBro]

The prep companies' estimates were pretty good long before there were so many widely available AAMC exams.

Great to know! Thanks for the heads up.

 

[DrHart]

Is this a troll thread?

 

[mehc012]

Is this a troll thread?

No, just a misunderstanding. OP reworded their question halfway through and it was reasonable, but it was unfortunately drowned out in the completely unrelated debate which sprung up.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

No, just a misunderstanding. OP reworded their question halfway through and it was reasonable, but it was unfortunately drowned out in the completely unrelated debate which sprung up.

Oops...sorry about being part of that debate.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Oops...sorry about being part of that debate.

I think @efle baited @Cyberdyne 101 to derail this thread.

 

[mehc012]

Oops...sorry about being part of that debate.

Nah, it's all good. The debate was started when it seemed like the OP was a ridiculous, quickly-answered question that we'd all moved on from. These things just kind of get...momentum, no? I get caught up in them super easily as well.

 

[mehc012]

I think @efle baited @Cyberdyne 101 to derail this thread.

Did you just tag yourself? Lol

 

[knv2u]

Honest poll of those reading this thread: How common is a strict curve in pre-reqs where you all come from? Most of the people I know at ACC/Big10 schools (so basically everyone I went to HS with) plus the LACs in those regions were graded on raw score... and that still resulted in a massive weed out.

My school has even curved down on occasion. And the issue is more than just curving; the difficulty of the exams can vary significantly too. Comparing a cell biology or organic chemistry exam from my school versus a friend's from another university - there was no comparison.

And I am not entering into any quibble about rigor or if it should matter. I am merely answering your question and showing the limitations of it.

 

[justadream]

I think an unfair mistake comes from assuming that, just because a school isn't well known, it's not rigorous. Who's to say that Kutztown State or whatever isn't very challenging?

I go to an LAC that nobody has heard of, and many of my classes are quite intense. It doesn't much matter, it's just frustrating that my hard work and GPA might be looked down upon because I didn't attend a nationally known university. Assuming that the classes are easy if there is no context stating otherwise just doesn't seem like an accurate way to make a judgment. You can't necessarily judge a school's rigour by its pedigree, I guess is my point.

Edit: Removed an anecdote since it wasn't really necessary to my point

While it is true that Kutztown State may actually be more rigorous than MIT, it is not unreasonable to make the assumption that certain schools (e.g., MIT, Princeton, Stanford, Harvard, etc.) are more rigorous than just about most other schools.

The alternative is to assume that all schools are completely equal in rigor. But common sense tells us that schools that are more selective (i.e., those with higher average SAT scores) tend to be more rigorous because:

Smarter and/or more hard working peer group ===> Being graded against the best & encountering tricky test problems that are meant to spread the distribution of grades.

It seems more unfair to me to assume that all schools (and all majors for that matter) are equally rigorous when we know that is not the case. Assuming some schools like MIT are more rigorous than others may, in some instances, actually be a false assumption (Kutztown State might actually be more rigorous than MIT), but in most cases will be a valid assumption to make.

 

[efle]

While it is true that Kutztown State may actually be more rigorous than MIT, it is not unreasonable to make the assumption that certain schools (e.g., MIT, Princeton, Stanford, Harvard, etc.) are more rigorous than just about most other schools.

The alternative is to assume that all schools are completely equal in rigor. But common sense tells us that schools that are more selective (i.e., those with higher average SAT scores) tend to be more rigorous because:

Smarter and/or more hard working peer group ===> Being graded against the best & encountering tricky test problems that are meant to spread the distribution of grades.

It seems more unfair to me to assume that all schools (and all majors for that matter) are equally rigorous when we know that is not the case. Assuming some schools like MIT are more rigorous than others may, in some instances, actually be a false assumption (Kutztown State might actually be more rigorous than MIT), but in most cases will be a valid assumption to make.

According to Ace MIT would not be any harder because you could just get insider access to old exams or pull a single all-nighter and beat the median, but in my experience this is spot on and when there are a limited number of A's to be given, the difficulty increases with the qualifications of the student body.

Edit: I actually noticed increasing difficulty even between the prereqs, genchem with 950 people it was very managable being top quarter or so but 3-4 weedouts later at the end of bio with ~400 people it started getting very, very tough to hold that same percentile. And Ochem alone, with the 270 who made it there, absolutely consumed your life in exam weeks to have a shot at an A. Only my experience

@Cyberdyne 101 what can I say, @efle is a master baiter

 

[WingedOx]

My impression though is that ADCOMS tend to know the schools in their area pretty well (to an extent greater than your average pre-med or layperson). Most of this debate is for the sake of debating.

 

[efle]

My impression though is that ADCOMS tend to know the schools in their area pretty well (to an extent greater than your average pre-med or layperson). Most of this debate is for the sake of debating.

Which would be great if people could plan to get into a school in their area 😉

And it's true, some jerks just loooove to instigate debate for the fun of it

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

And it's true, some jerks just loooove to instigate debate for the fun of it

 

[WingedOx]

 

[efle]

 

[MTCS]

I took the August MCAT when I applied, so I did not have a score when I initially submitted my application. The day my score came back, I started getting all my secondaries (I think). I don't believe it put me at a huge disadvantage, but I'll really never know.

 

[Dandine]

I took the August MCAT when I applied, so I did not have a score when I initially submitted my application. The day my score came back, I started getting all my secondaries (I think). I don't believe it put me at a huge disadvantage, but I'll really never know.

On a related note, if you are going to take the MCAT before submitting your application but your score won't get back until the month you apply, would it be better to still apply anyways or wait until you get the score and then submit everything? I hear tons of different things and I'm not really sure if it's been discussed here, so would like some feedback if possible.

 

[mehc012]

On a related note, if you are going to take the MCAT before submitting your application but your score won't get back until the month you apply, would it be better to still apply anyways or wait until you get the score and then submit everything? I hear tons of different things and I'm not really sure if it's been discussed here, so would like some feedback if possible.

Submit your primary ASAP so you can get started with verification. Include one school, or some core schools that you know you'll apply to no matter what.
Work on pre-doing secondaries while you wait (you can find them in the school threads).
When you get your score, you can update your school list to reflect your total package!

 

[Dandine]

Submit your primary ASAP so you can get started with verification. Include one school, or some core schools that you know you'll apply to no matter what.
Work on pre-doing secondaries while you wait (you can find them in the school threads).
When you get your score, you can update your school list to reflect your total package!

So will schools still take your primary despite the fact that you don't have a score available? And for secondaries is that different from the AMCAS or is it a totally separate application that you have to fill for each school?

Thanks--these are basic questions but I want to make sure I understand what you're saying!

 

[mehc012]

So will schools still take your primary despite the fact that you don't have a score available? And for secondaries is that different from the AMCAS or is it a totally separate application that you have to fill for each school?

Thanks--these are basic questions but I want to make sure I understand what you're saying!

The school will not see your primary until your MCAT is available. You will not get a secondary until they see your primary.
HOWEVER, the reason for submitting early is not so that schools see you early, but to avoid verification delays. When you submit your primary application, AMCAS takes a variable amount of time to review your transcripts and make sure your primary is accurate. The later in the cycle, the longer this wait time often is. If you submit your primary the day you get your MCAT score, you may have to then wait several weeks for them to verify your application...and schools will only see it after they have done so.

If you submit and get verified early, then schools will see your application as soon as your score is in.

 

[milski]

The school will not see your primary until your MCAT is available. You will not get a secondary until they see your primary.
HOWEVER, the reason for submitting early is not so that schools see you early, but to avoid verification delays. When you submit your primary application, AMCAS takes a variable amount of time to review your transcripts and make sure your primary is accurate. The later in the cycle, the longer this wait time often is. If you submit your primary the day you get your MCAT score, you may have to then wait several weeks for them to verify your application...and schools will only see it after they have done so.

If you submit and get verified early, then schools will see your application as soon as your score is in.

How sure are you about the bolded part? I think the primary gets sent with "MCAT pending" indication. Schools which don't screen for MCAT will most likely send you a secondary in that case but won't review the complete application until the MCAT score is available.

https://www.aamc.org/students/apply...amcas_application_without_my_mcat_scores.html

 

[mehc012]

How sure are you about the bolded part? I think the primary gets sent with "MCAT pending" indication. Schools which don't screen for MCAT will most likely send you a secondary in that case but won't review the complete application until the MCAT score is available.

https://www.aamc.org/students/apply...amcas_application_without_my_mcat_scores.html

Ah, fair enough. My bad. Thanks for the correction!
I suppose I didn't distinguish between 'will not see' and 'will not read'. The secondary, I presume, comes down to whether they do pre or post-secondary screening, then.

 

[milski]

Ah, fair enough. My bad. Thanks for the correction!
I suppose I didn't distinguish between 'will not see' and 'will not read'. The secondary, I presume, comes down to whether they do pre or post-secondary screening, then.

No worries. 🙂 I think it moves you a bit closer to the 'ready for review' pile, especially if you manage to get the secondaries. There must be plenty of people here who have gone that way, so they should be able to share school-specific details.

 

[mehc012]

No worries. 🙂 I think it moves you a bit closer to the 'ready for review' pile, especially if you manage to get the secondaries. There must be plenty of people here who have gone that way, so they should be able to share school-specific details.

At the end of the day, submitting the primary and then getting your MCAT in ASAP is the best way to approach an app without a ready-to-go MCAT score. I confess that I don't know much about the specific mechanics beyond that point.

 

[MTCS]

On a related note, if you are going to take the MCAT before submitting your application but your score won't get back until the month you apply, would it be better to still apply anyways or wait until you get the score and then submit everything? I hear tons of different things and I'm not really sure if it's been discussed here, so would like some feedback if possible.

I may be wrong because this was several years ago, but I remember that I submitted because I wanted AMCAS to verify my transcript. Within an hour of receiving my MCAT score, my AMCAS was verified and secondaries starting coming. At least I think that was the timeline, my AMCAS may have been verified earlier, but I am 100% certain that secondaries came literally the day that my MCAT score was released and I was able to be complete at most of my schools by mid/late September despite taking the August MCAT.