• Hi! The search index is currently updating, search results will not include the full scope of the forums until it is complete.

Touro College of Dental Medicine - New York

DATBooster | The Ultimate DAT Resource
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
ajj70 said:
Maybe because it would get confused with the NYU College of Dentistry?

As for needing more seats in dental schools, in 2008 there were 4680 seats, in 2014, 5843, so an 8.01% increase. In 2008, the US population was 304.09 million, in 2014, 318.86, a 9.5% growth. In 2015 the estimated population is 320.61, a 9.9% growth. Adding 110 seats represents a 9.8% growth. So, the number of seats in dental schools are keeping up with the population growth in the US. Add in all of the Marketplace Heath Insurance plans for kids under 19 that are required to have dental coverage and the elective coverage for adults that may not have had dental insurance in the past and I don't see a problem with more dental school seats as long as it keeps pace with the population.
Click to expand...


ummmmm.

4680 to 5843 is an 8.01% increase?

8 percent?

You MIGHT wanna check that math.

You are off by about 17%.

If your numbers are correct, that is almost a 25% increase in first year seats, which is a HUGE uptick in dentists, especially when juxtaposed with your US population stats.


Just for fun, lets check those.

304.09 million in 2008 to 318.86 million in 2014 (the same years as the dental school numbers YOU reported - I have no idea if those are correct)

Growth of 14.77 million.

You called this a 9.5% growth?

You again are off quite a bit.

That is in increase of LESS than 5%.



So, using YOUR numbers, over this 6 year span, we have an increase in the US population of less than 5%, with an increase in first year dental school slots of almost 25%.


Yikes.
 
tooth knockn said:
I heart NY

Ny FL CA Texas are the most important states..,, they must have the best of the best and with unlimited quantity ...
Click to expand...

Tooth you know I'm normally behind you 100%, but this statement means war!

😛
 
Touro-CDM might be classified as a public institution on the 2015 official guide to dental schools but I'm pretty sure the tuition will be on par with the private schools... All that money just to go to.. Man, I just hope I get into a real school :/
 
tooth knockn said:
Ada school inspection schedule, this one is pretty cool .


http://www.ada.org/~/media/CODA/Files/15_visits_schools.ashx
Click to expand...

Just because...

you are not... good enough..
to get in to other schools...
and you want more...

substandard dental schools...
to open...
so you can increase that...
slim... chance of acceptance...

doesn't mean other people share your opinion,
and want over population of graduates that will damage the overall profession.
And arguing is fine, just bring some real facts, logic, and a little bit of common sense.
I know this is hard for you, but please try your best.

Ugh, my brain cells died from writing like that.
 
whciot said:
Just because...

you are not... good enough..
to get in to other schools...
and you want more...

substandard dental schools...
to open...
so you can increase that...
slim... chance of acceptance...

doesn't mean other people share your opinion,
and want over population of graduates that will damage the overall profession.
And arguing is fine, just bring some real facts, logic, and a little bit of common sense.
I know this is hard for you, but please try your best.

Ugh, my brain cells died from writing like that.
Click to expand...

I don't know what to write back to you.


You and I have our own opinions....


This is natural, ying and yang....

You worry about saturation, I do not.
 
tooth knockn said:
Can you please reference that..,

NYC has undeserved areas...


I'm pretty sure a lot of dental students from ny will stay in ny....

Any New Yorkers disagree?


I'm staying...

And Long Island is not the same as nyc.... Queens borough is attached to long island .


Go Touro
Click to expand...

I most likely won't stay 😛. Other nice parts out in the country too. Really expensive here.

Put a school in Westchester or New Rochelle. Theres already a school in long island. Even though NYC dental students are very fortunate with the amount of schools to apply to, they really only have 2 private schools and a state school that has an extremely small class size. Another AFFORDABLE state school near the city would be beneficial imo.
 
Last edited:
Faux said:
I most likely won't stay 😛. Other nice parts out in the country too. Really expensive here.

Put a school in Westchester or New Rochelle. Theres already a school in long island. Even though NYC dental students are very fortunate with the amount of schools to apply to, they really only have 2 private schools and a state school that has an extremely small class size. Another AFFORDABLE state school near the city would be beneficial imo.
Click to expand...


Yea Vermont would be cool.

Jersey got one school which is not far away from NYC.


And the NEW Touro dental program will be located in westchester.
 
Worried About the Future of Law Schools? Talk to Your Dentist
Click to expand...
If you want to get some perspective on the problems plaguing law schools, you might want to make an appointment with your dentist.

Sagging demand for services, an industry buffeted by technological change, an overcrowded job market, plummeting enrollment and school closures. These are all symptoms of a crisis that a dentist can appreciate. It was about a generation ago when dental education had its own bubble that burst. In the 1980s, dozens of dental schools were forced to shrink their class sizes and several shut down.
Click to expand...

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2013/11/20/worried-about-the-future-of-law-schools-talk-to-your-dentist/

Boom and bust cycles plague just about everything. It's hard to know exactly when you are at the top of a hill until you're coming down, and the inverse goes for coming back out of the trough.
 
Faux said:
I most likely won't stay 😛. Other nice parts out in the country too. Really expensive here.

Put a school in Westchester or New Rochelle. Theres already a school in long island. Even though NYC dental students are very fortunate with the amount of schools to apply to, they really only have 2 private schools and a state school that has an extremely small class size. Another AFFORDABLE state school near the city would be beneficial imo.
Click to expand...

New York has four dental schools, two private and two state.
There is NYU and Columbia in NYC, but there is also Buffalo and Stony Brook.
Considering NYU alone graduates ~360 students per year, I think New York has enough dentists? if not already over-saturated.
 
Dekaros said:
New York has four dental schools, two private and two state.
There is NYU and Columbia in NYC, but there is also Buffalo and Stony Brook.
Considering NYU alone graduates ~360 students per year, I think New York has enough dentists? if not already over-saturated.
Click to expand...

I was talking about ones near NYC. I'm attending UB 😛. I'm extremely happy to be going and looking forward to the new experience. But I was a little jelly last year when I noticed New York has 9 med schools in NYC alone. We have 2 private dental schools and a state school that has a class size of <40.
 
Last edited:
Are they just letting random, subpar DO schools open up dental schools now? Honestly... why
 
pulltheleverkronk said:
Are they just letting random, subpar DO schools open up dental schools now? Honestly... why
Click to expand...
Probably same thing that happened with pharmacy - the ADA can't regulate who gets to open a dental school, they can only set accreditation standards. Maybe they could find a way to limit more schools from opening by enacting more stringent accreditation requirements, but idk, maybe that's too complicated and they figure it'll work itself out through board passing rates...? Free market system and all... Or maybe ADA profits financially from more schools, so they aren't very concerned?

The reason it hasn't happened as much with med schools is because everyone is required to complete a residency, and the number of residency spots is set and funded by the US government (and hasn't changed much since the mid 90s). Schools know that they'd have a hard time selling the idea of getting through 4 yrs of med school only to be left up a creek without a paddle when there are no residency spots available. So they open schools of pharmacy, dental, optometry, etc. instead.
 
It's interesting that some people that are so against these new schools haven't really connected the dots that without these extra seats available now, they probably would not be in dental school or going off to dental school this year because of their low stats.....

NY has a pretty large population and I'm sure NYC is saturated with dentists, but outstate sure is not, not to mention, not everyone that goes to school in NY will stay in NY.
 
The same thing that happened to Northwestern, Georgetown, Emory, and Loyola's dental schools back in the day will happen again. It's only matter of time. Georgetown's school was in debt 3.6 million when they shut down. As the dental school "market" gets more and more saturated (even with subpar schools), the bubble will get closer and closer to bursting. Kind of scary when you think about it. All those prestigious institutions disappearing into thin air :O
 
Dekaros said:
New York has four dental schools, two private and two state.
There is NYU and Columbia in NYC, but there is also Buffalo and Stony Brook.
Considering NYU alone graduates ~360 students per year, I think New York has enough dentists? if not already over-saturated.
Click to expand...

They have to make up for Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and until recently, Maine.
 
strep mutans said:
Probably same thing that happened with pharmacy - the ADA can't regulate who gets to open a dental school, they can only set accreditation standards. Maybe they could find a way to limit more schools from opening by enacting more stringent accreditation requirements, but idk, maybe that's too complicated and they figure it'll work itself out through board passing rates...? Free market system and all... Or maybe ADA profits financially from more schools, so they aren't very concerned?

The reason it hasn't happened as much with med schools is because everyone is required to complete a residency, and the number of residency spots is set and funded by the US government (and hasn't changed much since the mid 90s). Schools know that they'd have a hard time selling the idea of getting through 4 yrs of med school only to be left up a creek without a paddle when there are no residency spots available. So they open schools of pharmacy, dental, optometry, etc. instead.
Click to expand...

Actually, many medical schools have expanded and there are even a few new ones on the way. The AMA is lobbying Congress to increase Medicaid funding for residency programs as the demand for physicians is increasing but we have seen little growth in the number of practicing physicians since the '90s.

In 2002 there were 16,488 med student slots, that number is projected to be 21,434 by 2017.

http://www.usnews.com/education/bes...medical-school-enrollment-affects-md-hopefuls

People need to stop worrying so much about macroeconomic forces beyond their control. Do what you love, love what you do, and you will be happy. Things go boom or bust in every industry. Just look at North Dakota right now. Two years ago a high school graduate could make $120,000 working the oil fields, and today 45% of the rigs have closed shop. There have been numerous threads here on SDN with dental students complaining that all of these high school graduates working labor jobs in the energy sector were going to make as much as they will (or more) fresh out of dental school. Here is an example:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/oil-field-or-dental-field.1086450/

It is hard to quantify and yet impossible to ignore the perks of job security. Those high school grads are now struggling to find work in other industries while those dental students who complained are probably making a lot more than $120,000 today.

When you enter a career field you have to adopt the same attitude you would with stocks or even a marriage. You are in it for the long haul, the the ups and downs. There will be times you regret your decision and times you realize that it was the best decision you ever made.
 
Last edited:
Cello said:
Actually, many medical schools have expanded and there are even a few new ones on the way. The AMA is lobbying Congress to increase Medicaid funding for residency programs as the demand for physicians is increasing but we have seen little growth in the number of practicing physicians since the '90s.

In 2002 there were 16,488 med student slots, that number is projected to be 21,434 by 2017.

People need to stop worrying so much about macroeconomic forces beyond their control. Do what you love, love what you do, and you will be happy. Things go boom or bust in every industry. Just look at North Dakota right now. Two years ago a high school graduate could make $120,000 working the oil fields, and today 45% of the rigs have closed shop. Way back in the day, when I was just a lurker, there were threads here on SDN with dental students complaining that all of these high school graduates working labor jobs in the energy sector were going to make as much as they will (or more) fresh out of dental school. It is hard to quantify and yet impossible to ignore the perks of job security. Those high school grads are now struggling to find work in other industries while those dental students who complained are probably making a lot more than $120,000 today.

When you enter a career field you have to adopt the same attitude you would with stocks or even a marriage. You are in it for the long haul, the the ups and downs. There will be times you regret your decision and times you realize that it was the best decision you ever made.

http://www.usnews.com/education/bes...medical-school-enrollment-affects-md-hopefuls
Click to expand...

very good talk bro. thank you for bringing back some sanity that is often lost at SDN.
 
Cello said:
Actually, many medical schools have expanded and there are even a few new ones on the way. The AMA is lobbying Congress to increase Medicaid funding for residency programs as the demand for physicians is increasing but we have seen little growth in the number of practicing physicians since the '90s.

In 2002 there were 16,488 med student slots, that number is projected to be 21,434 by 2017.

http://www.usnews.com/education/bes...medical-school-enrollment-affects-md-hopefuls

People need to stop worrying so much about macroeconomic forces beyond their control. Do what you love, love what you do, and you will be happy. Things go boom or bust in every industry. Just look at North Dakota right now. Two years ago a high school graduate could make $120,000 working the oil fields, and today 45% of the rigs have closed shop. There have been numerous threads here on SDN with dental students complaining that all of these high school graduates working labor jobs in the energy sector were going to make as much as they will (or more) fresh out of dental school. Here is an example:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/oil-field-or-dental-field.1086450/

It is hard to quantify and yet impossible to ignore the perks of job security. Those high school grads are now struggling to find work in other industries while those dental students who complained are probably making a lot more than $120,000 today.

When you enter a career field you have to adopt the same attitude you would with stocks or even a marriage. You are in it for the long haul, the the ups and downs. There will be times you regret your decision and times you realize that it was the best decision you ever made.
Click to expand...

Great post
 
darknightzzz said:
and high school GRADUATES make 120k$? are you kiddding me???????????????????????

that is just insane
Click to expand...

yes, but along with the money and immaturity, the drug use and other problems are pretty bad up there...
 
pulltheleverkronk said:
The same thing that happened to Northwestern, Georgetown, Emory, and Loyola's dental schools back in the day will happen again. It's only matter of time. Georgetown's school was in debt 3.6 million when they shut down. As the dental school "market" gets more and more saturated (even with subpar schools), the bubble will get closer and closer to bursting. Kind of scary when you think about it. All those prestigious institutions disappearing into thin air :O
Click to expand...

I didn't know all those dental schools had closed down. I looked into it more and found some images from this 2013 article pretty interesting:

MtCjwpY.gif
MqDX2ja.gif


Definitely didn't expect that much variation in the number of applicants over the years!
 
FeralisExtremum said:
I didn't know all those dental schools had closed down. I looked into it more and found some images from this 2013 article pretty interesting:

MtCjwpY.gif
MqDX2ja.gif


Definitely didn't expect that much variation in the number of applicants over the years!
Click to expand...

Interesting! My dentist told me he went to Georgetown (context was I was thinking of going there for college years ago). When I looked at the list of dental schools on Wikipedia as an undergrad predent I thought he was a fscking liar lol-didn't occur to me that so many had closed. Wouldn't be surprised if medical schools and especially dental schools are net losers for institutions (especially dental-is that why so many dental residencies charge tuition instead of paying you?).

And I can definitely see how people would be freaked out by dental schools closing at places like Georgetown, Wash U, Emory and Northwestern. Those are top research universities with humongous endowments.

That's why there's such a glut of law schools. Literally all you need is a law library, lecture halls, and some professors. Nice new infrastructure can attract lots of credulous students-look at this fancy mock trial courtroom!-but you don't even need that. Just repurpose a building or two, make some faculty hires, and start letting students in. The ABA has been rubber stamping crappy new law schools for decades. And that's also why a lot of universities are reluctant to close law schools even in a ****ty economy where ~50% of law students are not getting legal jobs. As long as they can fill seats, they make money hand over fist. Most university law schools are used cross-subsidize other schools within the university, they're so profitable. So it seems like the expense of making a medical/dental school helps act as a sort of stopgap. I doubt medicine/dentistry would ever get as bad as law in that regard.
 
FeralisExtremum said:
I didn't know all those dental schools had closed down. I looked into it more and found some images from this 2013 article pretty interesting:

MtCjwpY.gif
MqDX2ja.gif


Definitely didn't expect that much variation in the number of applicants over the years!
Click to expand...

Damn, I should've been born ~20 years earlier. Would be nice to apply to dental school in the late 80s. Of course, I probably would've been scared off like so many other people. I wonder if dental applications will collapse again in the next few years, and it'll again turn out to be an overblown fear?
 
MrSamrtGuy said:
Damn, I should've been born ~20 years earlier. Would be nice to apply to dental school in the late 80s. Of course, I probably would've been scared off like so many other people. I wonder if dental applications will collapse again in the next few years, and it'll again turn out to be an overblown fear?
Click to expand...

in the next few years, probably pharmacy will face this. Dental schools, I hope not LOLLLL.
 
darknightzzz said:
in the next few years, probably pharmacy will face this. Dental schools, I hope not LOLLLL.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised the pharmacy bubble hasn't already burst. I thought there was already a glut of PharmDs struggling to find work.
 
Has anyone heard about that new school in VA that is on that list? I would have loved to go to dental school in Washington DC, too bad Georgetown closed.
 
MrSamrtGuy said:
I'm surprised the pharmacy bubble hasn't already burst. I thought there was already a glut of PharmDs struggling to find work.
Click to expand...

Aging population will keep that bubble from bursting any time too soon.
 
ajj70 said:
Has anyone heard about that new school in VA that is on that list? I would have loved to go to dental school in Washington DC, too bad Georgetown closed.
Click to expand...

If Georgetown had a dental school today, I'm positive it would cost about as much as NYU. It's one of the most expensive universities in the country-I considered it for two different degree programs and was turned off by the cost. Add the fact that dental schools seem to be even more expensive, and...oof.
 
MrSamrtGuy said:
I'm surprised the pharmacy bubble hasn't already burst. I thought there was already a glut of PharmDs struggling to find work.
Click to expand...
ajj70 said:
Aging population will keep that bubble from bursting any time too soon.
Click to expand...


It must feel good to be the 5k applicants for 4k seats, instead of 15-16k applicants for 5k seats. The old dentists probably had an easier time than us and also more risk-taker to enroll in dental schools with much skepticism back then.

I think it takes a while for any bubble to burst. This pharmacy dilemma is only the recent 7 years past (2-3 schools opening per year). They estimate that most of the soon-to-be pharmD are still in the pipeline.
 
darknightzzz said:
It must feel good to be the 5k applicants for 4k seats, instead of 15-16k applicants for 5k seats. The old dentists probably had an easier time than us and also more risk-taker to enroll in dental schools with much skepticism back then.

I think it takes a while for any bubble to burst. This pharmacy dilemma is only the recent 7 years past (2-3 schools opening per year). They estimate that most of the soon-to-be pharmD are still in the pipeline.
Click to expand...

My sis and I have a lot of friends in common and for the past 2 years, I counted a total of more than 10 going to pharmacy schools. Hospital jobs are what they say they will get instead of working in the boring retail big chains.
 
ajj70 said:
Aging population will keep that bubble from bursting any time too soon.
Click to expand...

I admittedly don't keep up with the economic outlook of the profession, but I'd heard that there's been an oversupply of pharm grads for at least a few years now. Do you mean that this will correct itself as the population ages?
 
darknightzzz said:
It must feel good to be the 5k applicants for 4k seats, instead of 15-16k applicants for 5k seats. The old dentists probably had an easier time than us and also more risk-taker to enroll in dental schools with much skepticism back then.

I think it takes a while for any bubble to burst. This pharmacy dilemma is only the recent 7 years past (2-3 schools opening per year). They estimate that most of the soon-to-be pharmD are still in the pipeline.
Click to expand...

Yeah, 5k applicants for 4k seats is practically open admissions. Remind me not to visit any dentists who graduated in the early 90s (jk).

It was still a risk I guess knowing only what you knew then, but financially it was less of a risk. The article talks about tuition topping 15k at "some private schools" (in 1987 dollars). Which is about what, 30kish today? So back then the most expensive private schools cost as much as going to a dental school in state today (in some places)? Good times.
 
MrSamrtGuy said:
I admittedly don't keep up with the economic outlook of the profession, but I'd heard that there's been an oversupply of pharm grads for at least a few years now. Do you mean that this will correct itself as the population ages?
Click to expand...

120+ schools in USA and still counting pumping out 13k pharmD graduates per year. Unless the role of pharmD change (go more to therapeutic consulting and monitoring the effectiveness of treatments (the socalled provider status pharmDs hope for)), i don't think so.

It makes me wonder why so many students drop 150-200k into it with this current outlook of the profession.
 
MrSamrtGuy said:
Yeah, 5k applicants for 4k seats is practically open admissions. Remind me not to visit any dentists who graduated in the early 90s (jk).
Click to expand...

The dentist I shadowed and got the LOR from is around 40-45 year old now, I think he graduated around this time. He made it sound like getting accepted to dental school is very easy and chillax. .....................
 
My dad applied to the top 3 medical schools back in the 80s and got accepted to all of them. The culture has shifted dramatically for medicine and dentistry alike. Crazy to think about how competition has increased so much.
 
pulltheleverkronk said:
My dad applied to the top 3 medical schools back in the 80s and got accepted to all of them. The culture has shifted dramatically for medicine and dentistry alike. Crazy to think about how competition has increased so much.
Click to expand...

Yeah mine as well, although he opted for instate. And even then he complained that something like ~5k a semester (don't remember exactly, but compared to today it was comically low even adjusting for inflation). Astronomically more competitive and more expensive. If you win the admissions race, you *pay* for it.
 
Based on this, http://www.nymc.edu/Academics/SchoolOfMedicine/AboutTheSchool/ , tuition might be high.

If MD school is running $50k, I think dental school will be at least 60 to 80k..,. Not including pocket and rent $

I guess this is not a public school.... But why is it registered as a public school in the Adea dental school handbook?
 
Cello said:
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2013/11/20/worried-about-the-future-of-law-schools-talk-to-your-dentist/

Boom and bust cycles plague just about everything. It's hard to know exactly when you are at the top of a hill until you're coming down, and the inverse goes for coming back out of the trough.
Click to expand...

I have no idea why a school would want to open a dental school if it were just chasing profit. Easier to just open a law school-cheaper, and despite the crappy legal job market people are still filling seats at law schools. Given the extraordinary costs involved I can't ever imagine dentists having the same issue as lawyers with rapid expansion of dental schools...and yet there are multiple schools that have opened in the last 5-10 years. The ADA really needs to put its foot down and refuse to accredit anymore new schools for at least another decade.

And I'd probably apply to Touro when the time comes for me to do my applications. Although I thought Touro had a reputation as being a ****ty school. The only reason I'd consider Touro for DO or DMD/DDS is because there are still few enough med/dental schools and enough jobs for now that you can get away with an otherwise crap school.
 
MrSamrtGuy said:
The ADA really needs to put its foot down and refuse to accredit anymore new schools for at least another decade.
Click to expand...

On what basis? perceived over-saturation? The only thing that the new schools that are pending approval will need to do is present the same research that is used by proponents of dental therapists to counter this argument, and the pressure will mount on the ADA to approve all new applications.
 
Incis0r said:
On what basis? perceived over-saturation? The only thing that the new schools that are pending approval will need to do is present the same research that is used by proponents of dental therapists to counter this argument, and the pressure will mount on the ADA to approve all new applications.
Click to expand...

On what basis? I think the burden of proof is on those who wish to alter the status quo and produce more dental graduates. They should convince us that there is no over saturation and there will be little if any squeeze on dentists, not the other way around. The ABA was asleep at the switch and basically rubber stamped new schools and increases class sizes for decades. Other professions should take note and demand rigorous findings from those who presume to open a new school.
 
MrSamrtGuy said:
On what basis? I think the burden of proof is on those who wish to alter the status quo and produce more dental graduates.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm saying though. These new schools HAVE the research ("burden of proof") that suggests that there is a dentist shortage. Now, you and I both know that there is a disparity with over-saturation in cities and under-saturation in rural areas, but the research doesn't show the over-saturation in cities part. It stresses lack of care for the underserved. This is why ME, MN and other states are approving dental therapists. To address the shortage of access. As long as there is a lack of access in rural areas, the new dental schools will successfully win this argument. Is the ADA really willing to go out on a limb and deny that there is a shortage in rural areas?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Taxi fare in New york
Replies
17
Views
2K
HeMan
HeMan
D
New Dental Schools
Replies
6
Views
1K
akdental
akdental
D
Hawaii College of Dental Medicine
Replies
17
Views
5K
JohnUNLV
JohnUNLV
S
New York University
Replies
4
Views
2K
Sunny_1225
S
L
New York University
Replies
9
Views
2K
gel1681
G
Top