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Trouble with PCAT, what should I do
- Thread starter thmm03
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I'm sorry to say this but it looks like your over all foundation is weak hence the low scores. There is no real big secret on mastering the pcat, it's all about your academic strength. No prep will greatly improve your score until you really master the basics. My suggestion would be to go over all your text books and study the subjects that you are weak on.
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Unfortunately, I have to agree with the above post. A lot of schools won't even look at you because of your Sci GPA and your overall GPA and taking the PCAT too many times does not look good. Your previous scores aren't very good and using study guides doesn't seem to be helping. Your biggest prep should be your undergrad coursework and it seems that that is your problem. You didn't do well in undergrad so you are struggling with the PCATs.
I don't know that an MS would help because you will not be learning prerequisite materials. If anything you should retake your prereqs and get that GPA up and it will really help with the PCATs in the meantime.
Sorry to bring the bad news but from what you posted you just don't seem like a competitive applicant. Don't get down on yourself, just retake your prereqs to bring that GPA up and don't retake the PCAT until your are positive that you are as prepared as you can be. If you don't do well on your 4th try even after retaking prereqs, maybe you should talk to someone at your schools career services and see about pharmacy alternatives.
Good luck with everything
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Is it possible that you can get into Pharmacy school? Sure, it's possible.
However, with your stats and poor scores, you should also think about how likely it will be for you to be successful in the program. IMO, not very.
My biggest thought is that if you knew that you had a lot of stuff on your plate and poor preparation, why did you try to take the PCAT for the 3rd time? It seems as if you're throwing darts blindly at the board and hoping that one of them will stick, i.e., taking the PCAT for the FOURTH time and thinking about a MS program when you don't have the grades to be accepted into a MS program since most programs require a 3.0 GPA. Furthermore, if you're below a 2.5 in the sciences, what makes you think that a graduate school worth it's weight will accept you into the program?
Point being ... Before even thinking about Pharmacy school, you should focus on improving your grades. Publications and volunteering are nice, but you don't even have the grades to meet the cutoffs at most schools. You will have to take the PCAT again, no question. However, you should try to learn the material before spending money and effort on taking it for a fourth time.
I'm probably sounding rather harsh, but it seems as if you have no real direction in this entire process. If I scored poorly on the PCAT, I would focus on improving my knowledge base instead of rushing to take it a second or third time. I know that it is difficult to balance everything (I worked full-time while taking classes full-time during undergrad and I studied for the PCAT while working a full-time job), but if you're having problems with undergraduate materials, you should be aware that Pharmacy school coursework is more challenging and you'll have more things thrown at you.
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I agree with ur post as well. This may sound simple and it is, JUST RETAKE THE SCIENCES TO BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT IS EXPECTED OF U ON THE PCAT AND BRING THAT GPA UP AT LEAST ABOVE 2.8 TO EVEN HAVE ANY HOPE. For example i was mostly a B student but i made sure i understood the basics of all my sciences and it helped on the pcat. I also took my sciences very very and i mean very serious so the other classes could get a B or C so it won't matter much, now here i am classing up in August class of 2016
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To be frank, you have a lot of work to do.
Before even thinking about Pharmacy school, you should finish your Bachelor's degree. I say this because your sub-standard GPA by taking only the pre-requisites isn't going to put you in a good position. You need to actually LEARN the material.
The ad com was completely correct; Be prepared to retake classes and take upper level courses to show that you can handle the material. However, I would hazard to guess that you have a 2 year road ahead of you before applying to pharmacy school again.
As for the Master's Degree, if you don't have a Bachelor's degree, you won't get accepted into a Master's program, period. Focus on getting a degree.
Frankly, why do you want to go to graduate school and get a Master's? If it's only to get accepted to pharmacy school, it would be a waste of your time and money since you don't seem to have much of an interest in the subject.
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True. Just go ahead a get a bachelors at a 4 year institution in probably one of the sciences. Say biology or chemistry. This will give u a slight advantage when reapplying provided ur gpas and pcat score are within the required numbers. I for one did not get a bachelors degree and still got in so it depends on the school. I made sure i at least got my associates of science(meant nothing nowadays). You shud also do exactly what they tell u to show that u r really serious and other schools u might be thinking about would probably tell u the same. As for a masters degree there is no point unless all fails in getting into pharmacy school(which i do not wish upon u), it's just a waste of time and money. I had so many thoughts about doing something else but God kept bringing me back to pharmacy. It can get frustrating but what ever u do don't give up because u would be the happiest person when u get that letter of acceptance in the mail, that feeling is the best eva. So better ur bios and chems and upper bios an chems. i used dr collins 2, so keep it and when u r ready use it again and PASS THIS DAMN PCAT
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OP,
It's time for some tough love given that we have more of your story ...
Do you honestly think that you'll get into a graduate program with your current grades? I'm quite doubtful. Most graduate schools require a 3.0 GPA prior to applying and you don't meet that requirement. You'll also have to take the GRE for graduate programs.
Expenses are always an issue, but because of your poor academic performance during your Bachelor's Degree, graduate programs that offer a Master's in the sciences are going to have a tough time accepting you into the program. At the school that I attended, students with credentials like yours were occasionally accepted, but they were not funded for the first year of their program. Therefore, you will be accruing loan debt to fund your program.
Furthermore, if you're retaking Chemistry & Biology classes at the CC and you're getting B's ... You're not really helping yourself in the process. When you retake a course, you should be making A's. Mostly B's isn't going to cut it on your second time around because that grade will be averaged with your previous GPA. B's with C's or D's will still leave you below the GPA cut off.
You're in a tough situation, but ... your academic credentials are sorely lacking. I don't really know what else to tell you aside from managing your time better to make A's in any additional coursework that you pursue. Continue gaining pharmacy experience, but I'd be hesitant to say that you'd have a great shot at getting accepted to a pharmacy school because the information that you've shared has shown that you can't handle the upper level coursework and that even on your second attempt at the lower-level material, you're not making A's in said classes. It would be a MASSIVE red flag if I were judging your application.
It's time for some tough love given that we have more of your story ...
Do you honestly think that you'll get into a graduate program with your current grades? I'm quite doubtful. Most graduate schools require a 3.0 GPA prior to applying and you don't meet that requirement. You'll also have to take the GRE for graduate programs.
Expenses are always an issue, but because of your poor academic performance during your Bachelor's Degree, graduate programs that offer a Master's in the sciences are going to have a tough time accepting you into the program. At the school that I attended, students with credentials like yours were occasionally accepted, but they were not funded for the first year of their program. Therefore, you will be accruing loan debt to fund your program.
Furthermore, if you're retaking Chemistry & Biology classes at the CC and you're getting B's ... You're not really helping yourself in the process. When you retake a course, you should be making A's. Mostly B's isn't going to cut it on your second time around because that grade will be averaged with your previous GPA. B's with C's or D's will still leave you below the GPA cut off.
You're in a tough situation, but ... your academic credentials are sorely lacking. I don't really know what else to tell you aside from managing your time better to make A's in any additional coursework that you pursue. Continue gaining pharmacy experience, but I'd be hesitant to say that you'd have a great shot at getting accepted to a pharmacy school because the information that you've shared has shown that you can't handle the upper level coursework and that even on your second attempt at the lower-level material, you're not making A's in said classes. It would be a MASSIVE red flag if I were judging your application.
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^what he said^
Before you commit to spending all of this additional time and money just to try to be accepted, you should think long and hard. Even if you do get accepted, will it be at a good pharmacy school so you will be successful entering the job market? Will you be able to handle the coursework that dwarfs the difficulty of undergraduate coursework which has already proven quite difficult for you? Are you willing to spend this time and money improving your credentials and still risk being denied admission?
I'm not trying to be mean, but if I were you I would talk to a career advisor ASAP about alternatives. It just seems like a long and expensive road to be accepted to a program which will take another 4 years and help you to accrue more debt.
You really need to go to the career service center at your undergraduate institution and get some information.
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This story strikes a chord with me because I was in a similiar boat when I was younger. I had to work as a waiter 4 or 5 shifts a week while going to school. I loved telling people I was prepharm but I didnt put any work into actually becoming one. Needless to say, my GPA was poor, like 2.5 gpa poor. I knew I COULD do well in class but I was too busy partying and working and so my grades suffered. I hardly attended any lectures. I crammed before exams and if any class had a test you could drop, I always told myself I could just drop the first exam and study later. That didnt work. But I kept aimlessly plugging away and found myself in your situation. Im not telling you you are not working hard or are lazy when it comes to going to class and studying. I was though. Hands down I was a lazy piece of **** with 0 responsibility.
Fast forward 8 years. I got a Bio degree and worked in research for 5 years. Then I found myself wanting to try again to be a pharmacist. I went back to school and retook everything. I took about 70 hrs of pre-reqs and EARNED a 3.93 GPA with those classes. When I studied for the PCAT, I scored a 91% composite. I interviewed this past Jan and was accepted a week ago so I know for a fact, I am going to be a pharmacist now. With all of that my advice to you would be this.
1. Stop thinking about being a pharmacist right now. You are at least 3 years away from having a decent chance at being one.
2. Get a 4 year degree and work somewhere in healthcare for a few years.
3. If you are lazy or irresponsible, you better fix that ASAP. No one is going to award you a Pharm D just because you want to be one. You have to work extremely hard. Period. There are no short cuts.
My last piece of advice is probably the most harsh but will save you a lot of heartache. If you are trying your hardest right now and studying a bunch for your classes at community college and still only getting Bs, you need to look at another profession. If it were easy to be a pharmacist, everyone would do it. It is not. You need to think long and hard and give yourself an honest assessment of your abilities. Then work hard. Just working hard at ANYTHING will give you a successful life regardless of what you do.
Fast forward 8 years. I got a Bio degree and worked in research for 5 years. Then I found myself wanting to try again to be a pharmacist. I went back to school and retook everything. I took about 70 hrs of pre-reqs and EARNED a 3.93 GPA with those classes. When I studied for the PCAT, I scored a 91% composite. I interviewed this past Jan and was accepted a week ago so I know for a fact, I am going to be a pharmacist now. With all of that my advice to you would be this.
1. Stop thinking about being a pharmacist right now. You are at least 3 years away from having a decent chance at being one.
2. Get a 4 year degree and work somewhere in healthcare for a few years.
3. If you are lazy or irresponsible, you better fix that ASAP. No one is going to award you a Pharm D just because you want to be one. You have to work extremely hard. Period. There are no short cuts.
My last piece of advice is probably the most harsh but will save you a lot of heartache. If you are trying your hardest right now and studying a bunch for your classes at community college and still only getting Bs, you need to look at another profession. If it were easy to be a pharmacist, everyone would do it. It is not. You need to think long and hard and give yourself an honest assessment of your abilities. Then work hard. Just working hard at ANYTHING will give you a successful life regardless of what you do.
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To OP:
This,
and I don't think you are trying your hardest or using your resources to your advantage. I think you answered your question yourself. You did not have the time to study. How many hours did you study a day?
During my freshman year in college, I tutor a classmate who sat next to me in the general chemistry lab course. This guy was really slow, and I was horrified at his science background from high school. I spend hours explaning to him what "mole" is, and he still had trouble understanding it. I thought he was the stupidest person I ever met (at that time). Since I was very impatient and immature at that time, I gave up on him after a few weeks. However, he has great determination. When I leave for classes in the morning, I see him studying in the common area. Then when I return from work and classes at night, I still see him studying and sitting in the same spot. During class, he would ask a lot of "stupid" questions, and some people are even mad at him for wasting lecture time. After class, he would bug the professor to make extra office hour for him. I dont know if he had to retake that class, but a year after I graduated, I met him at the biomedical library. Apparently, he got accepted into UCSD Medical School.
I hope this would inspire you a bit. Try harder and dont give up if you really want to go to pharmacy school.
This,
and I don't think you are trying your hardest or using your resources to your advantage. I think you answered your question yourself. You did not have the time to study. How many hours did you study a day?
During my freshman year in college, I tutor a classmate who sat next to me in the general chemistry lab course. This guy was really slow, and I was horrified at his science background from high school. I spend hours explaning to him what "mole" is, and he still had trouble understanding it. I thought he was the stupidest person I ever met (at that time). Since I was very impatient and immature at that time, I gave up on him after a few weeks. However, he has great determination. When I leave for classes in the morning, I see him studying in the common area. Then when I return from work and classes at night, I still see him studying and sitting in the same spot. During class, he would ask a lot of "stupid" questions, and some people are even mad at him for wasting lecture time. After class, he would bug the professor to make extra office hour for him. I dont know if he had to retake that class, but a year after I graduated, I met him at the biomedical library. Apparently, he got accepted into UCSD Medical School.
I hope this would inspire you a bit. Try harder and dont give up if you really want to go to pharmacy school.
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That's true dedication. If he can do it i know u can 2. Remember with God all things are possible
Now that we know more about your history, let's put all the lecturing aside and analyze your situation.
Having a degree in biochem is definitely a plus, however, your gpa is low.
Having taken pcat three times and scored bad on all three really does not help either.
The biggest problem I see is that you had no long breaks between your "bad"years in undergrad and your current community college study. This is a problem because you can't prove that you have changed and on top of that, you didn't do extremely well in CC either.
I think your only shot at this is to kill the pcat and I mean to really kill it. But even if you do, you still have to convince the adcom that you can succeed in pharmacy school and that will be difficult to prove.
Sounds like you live in California or at least trying to get into one of the Cali Schools. I suggest widen your option, Cali school is a no go.
Having a degree in biochem is definitely a plus, however, your gpa is low.
Having taken pcat three times and scored bad on all three really does not help either.
The biggest problem I see is that you had no long breaks between your "bad"years in undergrad and your current community college study. This is a problem because you can't prove that you have changed and on top of that, you didn't do extremely well in CC either.
I think your only shot at this is to kill the pcat and I mean to really kill it. But even if you do, you still have to convince the adcom that you can succeed in pharmacy school and that will be difficult to prove.
Sounds like you live in California or at least trying to get into one of the Cali Schools. I suggest widen your option, Cali school is a no go.
You do indeed have some work to do but it is possible. Those insinuating that you might want to consider giving up are assuming that you're not willing to put in the work necessary. However, I'll go under the assumption that you are willing to try to pull yourself back into the game. As others have said though, you should take a step back and realize that you need to work on the fundamentals more. You don't have to master them as some have suggested but you need enough to at least know how to efficiently solve problems of the type that are being asked of you. Also, you don't need to be over a 3.00 to get into pharmacy school. People get in with less than that (some with 2.6s and 2.7s). Some may not like it but that's just how it is. But you need to be reasonably solid in at least "some" areas. For example, some people have extensive work experience, high PCAT scores, really strong upward trends in grades, excellent recommendations, or Bachelors degrees. You've got the BS degregg but you'll want to hit the "solid" mark on some other areas as well. If you're deficient or mediocre in most of those areas, then you can't really expect to get into any schools.
Usually it's easier for someone with a high GPA to get in when they're substandard in any of the other areas. Having a low gpa (especially with a high number of credit hours) usually means harder than normal work will be required to bring it up a bit and to bolster the other areas. In your situation, you may want to focus on showing a consistent upward trend and also improving your fundamentals. I wouldn't necessarily shoot for harder classes. I would just focus on the basics so that you can try to stack some A's while at the same time working on your fundamentals and also building some confidence. You need to go into it with the understanding that you'll probably end up working a lot harder in the end than if you had focused on getting even just OK grades from the beginning. Now you have to work harder to prove something to the schools and yourself. Once you take some time to come to grips with that and are OK with it, then you may have the mindset necessary to formulate a plan of action, focus on it, and grind your way into the ballpark.
Usually it's easier for someone with a high GPA to get in when they're substandard in any of the other areas. Having a low gpa (especially with a high number of credit hours) usually means harder than normal work will be required to bring it up a bit and to bolster the other areas. In your situation, you may want to focus on showing a consistent upward trend and also improving your fundamentals. I wouldn't necessarily shoot for harder classes. I would just focus on the basics so that you can try to stack some A's while at the same time working on your fundamentals and also building some confidence. You need to go into it with the understanding that you'll probably end up working a lot harder in the end than if you had focused on getting even just OK grades from the beginning. Now you have to work harder to prove something to the schools and yourself. Once you take some time to come to grips with that and are OK with it, then you may have the mindset necessary to formulate a plan of action, focus on it, and grind your way into the ballpark.
I also have the similar situation as you during my undergrad at UCSD too =]. I generally only study 2 days before an exam because I always place my work as a higher priority than school. I also had family problem as well. However, I think I had a strong science background because I often tutor others in need, and I'm a science nerd (lol).
I have heard of people getting a MS just to make their application look better for pharmacy, medical or graduate school, and it does work for some of them. As for applying for a MS in UCSD, it is quite easy actually. As long you have a professor who wants you, it is guaranteed you get into a master program. You mentioned you done research before, so you can talk to your boss or PI about getting a MS. Maybe they could help you out.
As for UC not accepting retake. I think you can retake a course, but UCSD will not count retake gpa toward your gpa. I retook a general biology course I got C- (I found out a day before the final that my evolution class was never dropped, so I had a 0% on one of my midterm). I would suggest you retaking it at CC, it is much cheaper and easier.
Currently I work at both UCSD and Scripps TSRI, so if you really need the help just pm me your contact info. I will try to make time from my schedule to help you out.
I have heard of people getting a MS just to make their application look better for pharmacy, medical or graduate school, and it does work for some of them. As for applying for a MS in UCSD, it is quite easy actually. As long you have a professor who wants you, it is guaranteed you get into a master program. You mentioned you done research before, so you can talk to your boss or PI about getting a MS. Maybe they could help you out.
As for UC not accepting retake. I think you can retake a course, but UCSD will not count retake gpa toward your gpa. I retook a general biology course I got C- (I found out a day before the final that my evolution class was never dropped, so I had a 0% on one of my midterm). I would suggest you retaking it at CC, it is much cheaper and easier.
Currently I work at both UCSD and Scripps TSRI, so if you really need the help just pm me your contact info. I will try to make time from my schedule to help you out.
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kcwang,
One important thing to remember is that an applicant needs to meet certain GPA requirements to start a graduate program. Regardless of whether an adviser wants to work with you, they can not skirt around the requirements of the university. A 3.0 is the usual GPA requirement to get accepted to graduate school.
I'm a bit reticent to think that the OP will be accepted to a graduate program because a B/C student will have a MUCH more difficult time getting accepted to graduate school. For instance, I had a 3.1 GPA, but I also had a year of 0.7 GPA balanced out with a 3.5+ GPA. (I also had a perfect score on the GRE Quantitative section which helped tremendously.) We know that an upward trend is more acceptable than a straight B/C student expecting to do graduate work. I have also been a part of graduate admissions meetings and the OP's track record isn't great without an extraordinary GRE score.
thmm03,
I don't think that anyone is trying to beat you down or "hate" on you. However, you should be aware that you've put yourself in a very difficult position. Missing quizzes and showing up late for class that you're retaking ... These are things that should be avoided at all costs and it shows a lack of dedication on your part. I worked 45-50 hours a week at a pharmaceutical company while taking pre-req classes, so I understand the difficulties that lie in the process. However, to me ... it seems like you weren't taking the situation seriously.
I think that you're setting yourself up for failure if you're expecting to get accepted next year. The grades must be improved and if that means working less to ensure that you can show up to class on time, it's something which you should consider. I think that you've shown dedication, but you also have a long track record that you're working against. I think that it's foolish to think that one year of 120% effort can counter 5 years of lackluster performance.
I know WHY you want to start a graduate program, but understand that your grades are going to hinder that from happening. Before getting accepted to a graduate program, they will probably want you to take upper level courses to show that you can handle the coursework. Think about it this way ... Let's say that you get in a graduate program, but you fail to keep a 3.0 GPA to stay in the program ... You'll be in a worse situation than you were previously. If you couldn't maintain a 3.0 in undergrad, what makes you think that you can keep a 3.0 in graduate school?
Finally, the schools said that you should take upper level coursework and I agree with that mindset. If the school is telling you this, regardless of the expense, you should do it instead of committing to a 2 year Master's program since it will be quicker in the long-run.
One important thing to remember is that an applicant needs to meet certain GPA requirements to start a graduate program. Regardless of whether an adviser wants to work with you, they can not skirt around the requirements of the university. A 3.0 is the usual GPA requirement to get accepted to graduate school.
I'm a bit reticent to think that the OP will be accepted to a graduate program because a B/C student will have a MUCH more difficult time getting accepted to graduate school. For instance, I had a 3.1 GPA, but I also had a year of 0.7 GPA balanced out with a 3.5+ GPA. (I also had a perfect score on the GRE Quantitative section which helped tremendously.) We know that an upward trend is more acceptable than a straight B/C student expecting to do graduate work. I have also been a part of graduate admissions meetings and the OP's track record isn't great without an extraordinary GRE score.
thmm03,
I don't think that anyone is trying to beat you down or "hate" on you. However, you should be aware that you've put yourself in a very difficult position. Missing quizzes and showing up late for class that you're retaking ... These are things that should be avoided at all costs and it shows a lack of dedication on your part. I worked 45-50 hours a week at a pharmaceutical company while taking pre-req classes, so I understand the difficulties that lie in the process. However, to me ... it seems like you weren't taking the situation seriously.
I think that you're setting yourself up for failure if you're expecting to get accepted next year. The grades must be improved and if that means working less to ensure that you can show up to class on time, it's something which you should consider. I think that you've shown dedication, but you also have a long track record that you're working against. I think that it's foolish to think that one year of 120% effort can counter 5 years of lackluster performance.
I know WHY you want to start a graduate program, but understand that your grades are going to hinder that from happening. Before getting accepted to a graduate program, they will probably want you to take upper level courses to show that you can handle the coursework. Think about it this way ... Let's say that you get in a graduate program, but you fail to keep a 3.0 GPA to stay in the program ... You'll be in a worse situation than you were previously. If you couldn't maintain a 3.0 in undergrad, what makes you think that you can keep a 3.0 in graduate school?
Finally, the schools said that you should take upper level coursework and I agree with that mindset. If the school is telling you this, regardless of the expense, you should do it instead of committing to a 2 year Master's program since it will be quicker in the long-run.
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thmm03, let me ask some questions.
What classes are you taking this semester? What are your chances of getting an A in them?
Why, exactly, do you want to be a pharmacist?
What does giving 120% effort mean to you? How are you going to improve your chances of doing well in a retake, besides having seen the material once before?
What classes are you taking this semester? What are your chances of getting an A in them?
Why, exactly, do you want to be a pharmacist?
What does giving 120% effort mean to you? How are you going to improve your chances of doing well in a retake, besides having seen the material once before?
Thank you everyone for showing me support and offers your help and advice! greatly appreciate it, so I think I should take this year off, work less and take classes at a 4yrs inst. then; instead of studying for the GRE and apply to graduate program. I think meanwhile I should also retake my gen. chem at CC this summer to relearn really well the basic and retake the Pcat. The schools that told me to take classes at 4yrs is UOP, but they also said graduate program is a good way to strengthen my background. But approximately how many classes I should aim to take to show my dedication and show that I can make it? does it matter how many units I take per semester or per quarter?(as in one class per quarter and work in the pharmacy, or has to be 16 units - 3 classes per quarter to show that I can handle the loads with work and still do well? which way should I go?
kcwang - thank you for your offer, I will def. pm you when I need your tutor! greatly appreciate it!
chemguy79 - it sounds like you are going the graduate route, I assume that you are in graduate program now and not pharmacy program. But I see your point, I agree with your points to some extend.
How does taking classes at 4 yrs work once the student already graduate, how does it work and what would be calculate into the gpa to help it? through uc extension ? I checked out the UCSD extension program, there are not that many chem/bio classes that I can take and it seems as though most are seminar or just classes that prepare the student for working in biotech companies. I am a little hesitant about taking classes through extension program because I donot know how it will be instructed, how it will be factor into my gpa to help it or how it will be calculated. I trust that you have extensive knowledge about this area since you said you've been part of the graduate admission meetings, do you know anything about extension program and how the grades are calculated? thanks!
kcwang - thank you for your offer, I will def. pm you when I need your tutor! greatly appreciate it!
chemguy79 - it sounds like you are going the graduate route, I assume that you are in graduate program now and not pharmacy program. But I see your point, I agree with your points to some extend.
How does taking classes at 4 yrs work once the student already graduate, how does it work and what would be calculate into the gpa to help it? through uc extension ? I checked out the UCSD extension program, there are not that many chem/bio classes that I can take and it seems as though most are seminar or just classes that prepare the student for working in biotech companies. I am a little hesitant about taking classes through extension program because I donot know how it will be instructed, how it will be factor into my gpa to help it or how it will be calculated. I trust that you have extensive knowledge about this area since you said you've been part of the graduate admission meetings, do you know anything about extension program and how the grades are calculated? thanks!
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In my opinion ... If you decide to pursue a graduate program, you should FINISH the program prior to applying to pharmacy school. If you were to start a graduate program and quit the program if you get accepted, you could have your acceptance revoked. Therefore, you should understand that it will be a 1-2 year commitment if you attend a graduate program.
Granted, quitting a program midway has been done before, but given your credentials ... if you start a graduate program, you should finish the program. Furthermore, be aware that some programs will not allow you to attend the program part-time, so you will have to take a full course load and potentially take out student loans to fund the program. All of these things should be researched prior to pursuing graduate school, but I don't think that you will be able to take 1 class at a time in the program.
Consequently, I would definitely advise you to take upper-level classes at a 4-year institution to show that you can handle the material. It will be less expensive (graduate credits are more expensive than undergraduate credits). After taking 2-4 classes, if you fail to get accepted, I would consider pursuing a graduate degree to strengthen your application. Again, if you start the program, you should be aware that you will need to finish the program.
I believe that taking Gen Chem at a CC is a solid plan. However, I stress that you should get an A in the class if you want it to help out your GPA. Getting a B will do little to improve your GPA, which is the weakest part of your application.
Classes are classes & Grades are grades; You can take classes after graduation and they are equally factored into your GPA. I'm not exceedingly familiar with the extension programs, so I don't know how their classes are structured. However, if it is an official course, it will count as an official grade.
I went to graduate school after undergrad to strengthen my application. Once I finished my degree, I started working for a pharmaceutical company. I wanted work experience prior to starting pharmacy school so I would have a better chance at pursuing clinical research after graduation. I work with 2 clinical pharmacists, so my background should serve me well in the field.
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You guys are saints. Just sayin'.
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While this is generally true for graduate program, but you can always appeal to the process. In UCSD as long a professor wants you and sign a form for you, the admission pretty much will let you into the master program. A good score on GRE and decent GPA is great, but it doesn't always mean you will succeed in laboratory setting (though GRE and GPA generally have good predictablity). Most professors want students that work hard and have passion for the research. Therefore, if a professor already know a student by heart, GRE and GPA wouldn't mean much. If thmm03's PI thinks having him in the laboratory beats a new student with a 4.0 gpa and perfect GRE score, then by all means thmm03 should apply. I know a couple of people that doesnt make the 3.0 cutoff, but they were able to get into the ms program no problem. They are not slackers, and they dont have weak science backgrounds. They earn their place in the lab through their achevements and publications.
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Obviously, a 4.0 doesn't make a great research associate and I never stated that it would. Your comment, "They are not slackers, and they dont have weak science backgrounds." is precisely why they should NOT attend graduate school. If you have a weak science background, attending graduate school in the SCIENCES is rather foolish.
Furthermore, I still contend that if you can't make a 3.0 as an undergraduate student, you'll have a poor chance for success in a graduate program. Graduate school isn't just research, it involves coursework as well. Furthermore, the student is primarily interested in coursework ... He even mentioned taking merely a few classes versus pursuing a graduate program. Therefore, there is even less impetus for him to pursue that route.
xtsukiyox,
.I agree you need a strong science background, and all of my friends who got into the MS program have that as I mentioned "they dont have weak science backgrounds". IF I'm a PI, would I want a graduate student with a 4.0 or a student with a publication on Nature as a second author?
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I would want a student with a 4.0 AND a publication in Nature as a second author.
To challenge your reaching conjecture, would a sub-3.0 student have a publication in Nature as a second author? I would hazard to say NO.
I would want a student with a 4.0 AND a publication in Nature as a second author.
To challenge your reaching conjecture, would a sub-3.0 student have a publication in Nature as a second author? I would hazard to say NO.
haha me too! But that was how my friend got into the program.
People generally associate low gpa with slacking or weak academic background. However, there are others who just place their researching experience as a higher priority than school. Sadly, research in basic science is hard because we just don't know enough about it. It takes a lot of time to read all the relevant literatures to conject your own experimental design and to experiment on it. Unfortunately for students,they either sacrifice the academics or research time, which result in poor gpa if they choose the latter. It is countless night of sad face in front of experimental results, trial and error, logical thinkings that get the publication, not the high gpa, not the "A" in human anatomy course, not the "99% on pcat chemistry.
Imo, graduate schools look more at experiences and publications than gpa and gre.
To answer your question, generally no, but it doesn't mean a sub 3.0 student cannot be successful in graduate school. There are courses in graduate schools, but they are the courses that relate to your research not the required courses like "The history of the east pacific during the 40s", "The origins of Jazz" or "The philosophy of ancient greek".
The op definitely need to have strong background on general science courses, but I believe his research experiences and personal connection can land him into a MS program at UCSD (if the op decide to get a MS to improve his app for pharm school).
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There is no way to sugar coat it. You dug yourself this hole. You will either dig yourself out or you won't. I know you want positive feedback but it's time to stop posting and time to start getting a plan together and more importantly following through with that plan. Give yourself one more day to feel sorry for yourself about what has happened and then start kicking butt and getting on a path to get into pharmacy school.
Good luck to you.
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Im not sure on colleges in California but in Texas there is no such rule. I retook them at cc + 4 yr. Perhaps it is that specific community college that has the no retake rule. I'd look at other cc's in other cities first near where you live. Then expand from there.
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+1
The situation is less than ideal, but it arose from your own circumstances. You have choices; Pursue the path that has been provided to you from the pharmacy schools or choose not to do so.
The bottom line is that there isn't going to be an easy fix for your previous academic experiences. If you are expecting that, you're going to be sadly disappointed. There are numerous people on the board who were in similar situations, we spent 2+ years fixing our academic issues and we have started pharmacy school or are planning to do so. However, since you finished your degree, it's going to cost $$$$ to fix your academic record by taking coursework and getting A's in the classes instead of being happy with a B. B's won't bring your GPA above a 3.0.
It's rather terse to say, but suck it up if you expect to get into Pharmacy school. Besides, the classes in Pharmacy school will be tougher, they'll move quicker and your coursework will be more intense, so it's better to decide if you want to put in the work now instead of starting a program and potentially flunking out due to a lack of effort or preparation. I remember at least 2 posters who I thought were middling applicants to pharmacy school (marginal 3.0 GPA's and ~60 percentile PCATs), they were accepted into the program, and they have posted about being placed on academic probation or being expelled from the program due to grades. I'd rather not see a post about you in that same category.
I am not sure why they wont let you retake the class. I had to retake my physiology course in CC because the one from ucsd doesn't count toward my prereq.UCSD doesnt offer the "lab" component. I didnt get dropped or get a notice from anyone.
Some people also have to retake course because there is a shelf life for pre-req. Maybe try national university?
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Dont feel so depressed. Go upto the Dean of Science and explain your situation.
FYI tho, you should withdraw from every course that would give you even a C+ before the end of that semester.
Also, starting the moment you finish reading this post, find every gen chem problem you can on Google and solve them to perfection.
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This is not good advice. Adcoms are wise to this tactic, and if you use it too much, it's going to look bad.
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hey guys, i need some advice. i have a 2.83 gpa and i am in my fifth year of undergraduate studies. I am a general science major with a pre-pharm concentration. i have had 6 yrs of experience in the pharmaceutical field. i have completed one interview and have not heard back yet. do you think i have a shot? i am also an international student completing my undergrad degree in the U.S. please suggest what i can do. i have working really hard this semester to bring up my gpa to 2.9 or a 3 if possible. please help...
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nd my pcat is a 40 please suggest wht i should do...
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To answer the question honestly, it really depends on where in the country you are. In some places, I've heard folks say that they're merely technical schools and act as an extension of high school. However, where I live, the courses are required to be to the same rigor as the local Unis because of course equivalency requirements. There is a strong philosophy in this state to make higher education accessible, and the robust CC system exists as it does for that reason. As I understand, the strength of the system here is an exception to the rule - it's very hard to generalize across the entire country.
Here's hoping we don't devolve into a CC vs Uni debate.
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hey guys, i need some advice. i have a 2.83 gpa and i am in my fifth year of undergraduate studies. I am a general science major with a pre-pharm concentration. i have had 6 yrs of experience in the pharmaceutical field. i have completed one interview and have not heard back yet. do you think i have a shot? i am also an international student completing my undergrad degree in the U.S. please suggest what i can do. i have working really hard this semester to bring up my gpa to 2.9 or a 3 if possible. please help...my PCAT is a 40.
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Your GPA is fairly low so you must retake the PCAT. There's no way around it. If you're lacking in one area, you must make it up in another area. Good luck.
Hello guys, lhave been reading your comments and I will like you to
Elp me suggest a place to go for preparztion for the pcat comming this july. I live in rancho cucamonga san bernadino county.
Elp me suggest a place to go for preparztion for the pcat comming this july. I live in rancho cucamonga san bernadino county.
Hello guys, lhave been reading your comments and I will like you to
help Youme suggest a place to go for preparztion for the pcat comming this july. I live in rancho cucamonga san bernadino county.
help Youme suggest a place to go for preparztion for the pcat comming this july. I live in rancho cucamonga san bernadino county.
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I don't think the problem is so much the PCAT score as it is the low GPA. I agree with what everyone says, you need to bring that up. If that means doing a Master's program for 2 years to bring up your science gpa than you should do that, most of the candidates for those masters programs are to bring up the science gpa so that you can enter into a professional program. I got a low PCAT score and even though I scored higher on my PCAT the second time around, I was accepted to pharm schools before they even saw my great new score. Definitely bring up your GPA and if you can do that, then consider retaking the PCAT and applying. For now, concentrate on your GPA.
