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True Or False ?

Discussion in 'General International Discussion' started by IRON_DUKE, Aug 13, 2002.

  1. IRON_DUKE

    IRON_DUKE MEDICAL RED NECK ROYALTY

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    I was told by a classmate that in order for me to get a license to practice medicine back stateside , in my case FLORIDA , that I must do a rotation as a MED STUDENT .


    Now does anyone have solid information on this ?

    As far as I know my school is ECFMG IMED MEDICAL SCHOOL DIRECTORY LISTED , because as you know it no longer matters if your school is W.H.O. LISTED and my school does not have any exchange programs with U.S. hospitals .


    Solid info welcome .


    :cool:

    P.S. Could I get by with just a visiting med student rotation ?
     
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  3. ApacheIndian

    ApacheIndian philomath

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    Hmmm... that's interesting... I know plenty of interns and residents right now that never had any U.S. clinical experience (as med students or o/w) before starting... yet they're still on the path to obtaining full licensure.

    Unless this is something new, I think it's bogus.

    That said, being an IMG, the more U.S. clinical experience you can get before graduating and applying for programs, the better. IMHO, U.S. clinical experience is 3rd in importance for the IMG... right behind Steps 1 & 2. Good luck!
     
  4. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler

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    IRON DUKE, I haven't heard anything like that. Then again, I WOULD be the last person to know if they changed the rules. Like Cuts said, think of all the "true" IMGs. Some never even considered moving to the US until long after they were done with school.

    Cuts, would you say the rotations are important because of LORs from American Doctors (= connections) or is it more like a test to see if the foreign weirdos can hack it in a US setting? I mean, I've heard other people say the same here on SDN but why exactly is it so important? If you were "rehearsing" at a hospital where you wanted to do your residency, then I could understand.
     
  5. Annette

    Annette gainfully employed
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  6. ApacheIndian

    ApacheIndian philomath

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    Well, I'd venture to say that doing clinical work in the U.S. is advantageous for all of the reasons you cited...

    In my experience and from what I've heard from my IMG colleagues, "foreign" LoRs don't count for much... i.e. I think only strong LoRs from U.S. practicing physicians really make any difference. Fair? Probably not, but that's just the way it is.

    Related to LoRs but not quite the same are indeed "connections."
    This is an international maxim... it's not what you know, it's who you know... again, I'm referring to U.S. docs in power positions.

    The mechanics of practicing medicine differ greatly from country to country, and PDs know this. An IMG intern with say 6 months of solid U.S. clinical experience under his belt will acclimate much easier than would his zero-U.S.-clinical-experience counterpart.

    And finally, an IMG doing clinical work at a U.S. hospital just prior to applying for a residency will obviously have a better chance Matching at that hospital (assuming he did a good job and left a good impression)... he's already been tried, tested, and approved so to speak.

    Bottom line for IMGs: Do try your level best to gain as much U.S. clinical experience as you can before applying for residency. It might by somewhat inconvenient, you may face a lot of red tape, and it will most certainly be expensive, but IMHO, the potential dividends you can reap are almost innumberable. Good luck :).
     
  7. carddr

    carddr Senior Member

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    Before you make any decisions, call the Fl State Licensing Board and get a clear picture of what their requirements are for getting a license in their state,preferabley in writing. Some states require so many weeks of rotations and so many hours of academic study, it's best to know ahead of time.

    I definitely agree US rotations are advantageous and level the playing field somewhat, plus give you an opportunity to improve your communications skills and clarify some cultural issues, if needed.
     
  8. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler

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    How about this scenario for an IMG?

    Most non-caribbean IMGs will lose at least 6 months, I think, in the moving/application process. I had kinda figured I would observe or volunteer or whatever in the "lost time". I suppoes that would cover the required clinical experience that IRON DUKE refers to but since it would be in the waiting period before residencies start, I won't really be able to use it in applications, you know? I had always thought I would do it for my own sake. To get a few months of asking all the stupid questions and making those embarrassing foreigner mistakes. You guys would laugh, but I actually watch ER to learn the slang of a US setting.

    Cuts, I don't know if you would agree with this but I don't think you can compare the different types of IMGs. I know that for Caribbean schools it's THE most important thing to be able to offer US rotations. Because their students want to go to the US (and are mostly American). But I would venture to say that for most other countries a school with many foreign rotations is a sure sign of a "weak" school. Probably one that charges lots of money and has easy admission.

    Everything you said makes sense about why rotations are so important. But let's look at this scenario. Someone graduates from a top, say, European school, gets top grades, say, a top 5 standing in his class. He aces the boards. Let's say he goes to Africa or somehwere else to work for Red Cross or Doctors without borders. You know, for character building. Are you telling me that that doctor would be worse of than his counterpart that did US rotations instead (of Africa)?

    Ok, asking that question I imagine you'll respond with a yes:) . And you're probably right. Arh, I probably don't make any sense. But don't you kinda see how going to the US would make it seem like you thought your system was inferior to the US system (thereby making your school look less than a US school)?

    Just for the record, when I talk about Africa and Doctors without borders it's something I would absolutely love to do - in a parrallel universe. In this universe I have a wife and a baby daughter and we're just trying to get through life one day at a time

    :)

    Later, guys.
     
  9. WaZoBia

    WaZoBia Senior Member

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    hey bellkicker, where exactly in africa would you like to go??
     
  10. IRON_DUKE

    IRON_DUKE MEDICAL RED NECK ROYALTY

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    BellKicker :


    Where are you studying ? And are you going to go back stateside when you finish .


    Best of luck .


    Duke

    :D
     
  11. carddr

    carddr Senior Member

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    Bellkicker: Are you telling me "Doctors without Borders", "Operation Smile", etc... will let you practice medicine without ECFMG certification, without having done residency, or without a license??? What planet are you from???
     
  12. ApacheIndian

    ApacheIndian philomath

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    Bellkicker, I'm not saying that this is fair or good or making any judgements about it, but yes I do indeed think that for the purpose of landing a residency in the U.S., the guy that went to Africa probably would be at a slight disadvantage to his peer who went to the U.S. to do clinicals instead.

    I don't think that U.S. schools or U.S. clinicals are any better than foreign ones. But if one is planning on coming to the U.S. to do residency and practice, then for sure getting a "head start" with some clinicals under his belt here would only help. On the other hand, if I suddenly decide that I would like to go to England to practice medicine, I would most definitely try to arrange and do some clinicals there (for all of the reasons we cited above) before applying... logical right?

    Even after all that though Bellkicker, I'm not saying that if an IMG doesn't do any clinicals at all in the States before applying that he's doomed to a life of misery. I've heard quite a few inspiring stories of IMGs who'd never even set foot in the U.S. but were still able to land badass spots.

    By the way, what field is it that you'd like to go into? Oh, and I too have considered the Doctors without Borders thing before... me and a friend were thinking we'd go down to Brazil and help out all the young ladies who are willing to play doctor with us ;)...
    seriously though, I have thought about it and I think it's a very noble, altruistic idea... who knows... that's a ways down the road anyway...
     
  13. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler

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    LOL, yeah, whatever gets you motivated, right?

    Right now I'm thinking family practice. It will sound naive but I really want to practice in a little midwestern town, My wife is from such a town and I had a chance to meet her doctor a couple of times. It just amazed me how he knew everything about her whole family (he delivered her and her brothers and sisters). Right now that's what I want. Oh, and to coach the town's cross country team:) .

    Whoa, Carddr. Yes, I really don't think you need ECFMG certification. Doctors without Borders is an international institution (headquarters in France, I think). Why would they want ECFMG certification??!? If by ECFMG you mean some kind of.........Umm, I can't really think of what you could mean. Are you saying you have to pass USMLEs and all that? Most countries have tests to pass to allow people to practice. The ECFMG, as powerful as it might be in the US, doesn't control international affairs.

    This kinda surprises me. You know how you build up an image of a poster in your head. You're in the top cool group. The IMG that made it into a good residency and you always take time to offer good adivce.... I hadn't thought you would make fun of "operation smile". They save many lives every day. These people work for almost no money. It's easy for me to say that I would like to work for such an organisation and blah blah but I hold these docs in the highest regard.

    Wazobia, I know you're African (remember you from the soccer threads). It must be damn irritating having these wanna be do-gooders tell you they want to save the world. When I said Africa, I just meant a place where help was needed. I know my school has sent students to Asia, Africa and South America to volunteer. A good friend of mine worked for 6 months in a children's hospital in Nepal. I know of one person who went to Kenya (to a mission hospital, I think).

    Later.
     
  14. carddr

    carddr Senior Member

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    On the contrary I, too, have deep admiration for Doctors who choose to serve the less fortunate, but I also know they do not want or allow unqualified doctors to perform operations, procedures, tests, etc even if they are serving the poor or getting paid next to nothing(like ALL residents!!). Each country has their own set of licensing requirements and for the US the ECFMG is a requirement for IMGs', and yes, that includes the USMLE testing requisites, agreed that would not be the same requirement in France or for the world. But these organizations are not without high standards and want only the best to fufill their mission and I have my doubts they would sponsor an unlicensed Doctor from any country. To say that is NOT to make fun of any of these admirable organizations such as "Operation Smile", heaven forbid!! Let's get on the same page here.

    BTW, the best clinical training I had was in a Third World country with some of the poorest people on this earth. Proud to say in these dirt-poor areas I delivered 20 babies,(granting having those babies under these circumstances is another whole discussion). But loved bringing new life into the world however I did not choose to practice Ob/Gyn.
     
  15. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler

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    I read 'ya, girlfriend. You're saying that you can't be a straight-out-of-school greenhorn. That's probably true for Doctors without borders but there are seriously organisations that will take any volunteer - even med students. Like I said, I have classmates that have done it.


    Hey, why didn't you go into OB/GYN? I hear there are many openings in that field..... (Had to get that one off my chest).

    :D

    Gotta get back to the exciting world of cancer drug side effects:mad: .

    Take care.

    ps. Just yesterday I was picking my nose with no one watching. That's really one empty shell of a character I have there, eh?
     
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  17. carddr

    carddr Senior Member

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    Guess what??? I'm a guy!! And I prefer girls over guys anyday! True.

    Ever consider going into comedy writing? You could have your pick! Just kidding!!!
     

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