Trying not to freak out...

[chattkis]

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I'm filling out AMCAS 2006... I had no worries about putting down MD/PhD. I thought I had finally made up my mind. Now I visit the various schools websites and look at the current students profiles and honestly they are all frikin Einsteins. Numerous scholarships, fellowships... How can I compete? so defeated...


Even if I ask for md/phd at every school, they will consider me for just MD as well correct? (except for those choice few who have restrictions listed on AMCAS website) since I might not be competitive enough for md/phd. 🙁

 

[milliardo_L]

Don't sell yourself short. While its true that a lot of people have amazing profiles, that doesn't necesarily means that they will be better physician scientists, schools know that. The way I see it is that I will have very interesting classmates, but not everyone is a Rhodes scholar (just to mention something 😉 )

 

[dave613]

what milliardo said is unbelievably true. Goldwaters,beckmans etc. DO NOT guarantee success as a physician scientist, and you will get in, so don't look at what others are doing so much. Good luck!

 

[beary]

Don't freak out. First, yes, most schools will consider your MD application as part of an MSTP application. So you got your bases covered there. Also, not everybody in the MSTP is an Einstein. I am a 7th year, and it seems like things have gotten more competitive in the last few years, but I am certainly no Einstein (and neither are my classmates). I just had a decent GPA, decent MCAT scores, and some research experience. That's about it. And same for my classmates. I think one of the most important things is a true desire to pursue this pathway.

 

[Dr. Chiquita]

Before I started out filling my applications, I thought I was an idiot without any accomplishment. But once I finished my applications/resume/essays, I was like, "I'm not too bad." I think the thing is anybody can look impressive if they package their accomplishments in a well-presented manner.

Don't worry too much. If other people saw your resume, they would think you are Einstein, too. 😀

 

[sharpnerd00]

I'm filling out the form and flipping out as well. A lot of the programs only except 2-10 people and many keep asking me about what "back up" schools I am applying to. How does one figure out where a backup school would be if schools accept so few students? I am looking at my list and doubting my entry into any of the schools.

Also what does "restricted" mean on the AAMC application? That part is really confusing. For example, for UCSF it says restricted for MSTP program and that we're not allowed to mark it until we receive our secondary. Does this mean that they just consider everyone on equal ground pre-secondary? (perhaps this is where out-of-state residents receive the short end of the stick).

 

[bottles999]

I'm filling out AMCAS 2006... I had no worries about putting down MD/PhD. I thought I had finally made up my mind. Now I visit the various schools websites and look at the current students profiles and honestly they are all frikin Einsteins. Numerous scholarships, fellowships... How can I compete? so defeated... 🙁

Don't Undersell yourself here! IF this is what you want to do start reseaching at what these schools are looking for an MD/PhD candidates and then look at your record. Where you see areas to shore up then start making those changes. Might not help for 2006 but maybe in the future.

Even if I ask for md/phd at every school, they will consider me for just MD as well correct? (except for those choice few who have restrictions listed on AMCAS website) since I might not be competitive enough for md/phd. 🙁

If I understand it, most schools - BUT NOT ALL, automatically consider you for the MD by just declaring MD/PhD. I did see one that said they ONLY consider you for MD/PhD and specifically excluded the MD only option. I believe that one to be Vandy.

Good luck and dont be Discouraged!

 

[milliardo_L]

I'm filling out the form and flipping out as well. A lot of the programs only except 2-10 people and many keep asking me about what "back up" schools I am applying to. How does one figure out where a backup school would be if schools accept so few students? I am looking at my list and doubting my entry into any of the schools.

Also what does "restricted" mean on the AAMC application? That part is really confusing. For example, for UCSF it says restricted for MSTP program and that we're not allowed to mark it until we receive our secondary. Does this mean that they just consider everyone on equal ground pre-secondary? (perhaps this is where out-of-state residents receive the short end of the stick).

Its true that there are not that many offerings for MD/PhD, but there aren't that many applicants either. After all, it is a big compromise, and it is not for everyone (I hope its for me ) As one interviewer told me, it is a rather random where you end up accepted, and it follows a normal distribution. Most people will end up accepted at half their choices(top of the bell), and very few will be accepted to all or to none.

I don't believe that much in the concept of a safety school, specially in this case. If it is a place that is not your top choice, but still think would be happy about it, then go for it. It it is a place you don't care about, but its the only one that accepted you, I am not sure you'll enjoy been there for 7+ years. I was ready to take a year off and polish my application/profile more, specially in the parts I thought were weak. But at this point, I think the best is to get your act together, make a cohesive presentation of yourself. Most importantly, learn exactly what these programs look for, and match it as much as possible.

 

[Tinker]

From my experience, applying to the PHD/MD program significantly affects the probability of being accepted into a MD only program. I am writing from the perspective of a parent of an MD/PHD student. My son numbers were 35 MCAT, 3.9 GPA, Molecular Biology focus, three years research during undergrad.

He applied to approximately 12 schools, accepted directly in one MD/PHD program, waitlisted at 5 or 6, and rejected directly by the remaining. The acceptance was at one of his top choices so he withdrew from all of the waitlisted schools. I have no idea how the waitlists move.

He was accepted to only one MD only program and waitlisted at 1.

I strongly suspect he would have had much more success being admitted to medical only programs if he hadn’t been involved with the MD/PHD program. With an over supply of qualified candidates, why should a medical school admissions program bother to even deal with the added complexity of admitting a student who has made it clear that medical school only is a second choice. I would certainly select the qualified candidate who is most likely to accept.

Keep in mind that the acceptance process for MD and MD/PHD extends all the way into the summer. After the May 15 date, the ripple affect of candidates changing schools extends for quite some time. Anecdotal information indicates that this can extend into August.

Are you ready to deal with this kind of uncertainty? There are several studies that have been referred to in this forum dealing with the acceptance into MD/PHD programs. I believe the information distills into the simple fact that only 1 MD/PHD applicant out of 4 matriculates into a program.

This is one of the most important processes you may ever participate in. If I were advising my next child, I would STRONGLY suggest that he keep two separate application processes one for MD and another for MD/PHD programs.

 

[marionseven14]

I'm filling out AMCAS 2006... I had no worries about putting down MD/PhD. I thought I had finally made up my mind. Now I visit the various schools websites and look at the current students profiles and honestly they are all frikin Einsteins. Numerous scholarships, fellowships... How can I compete? so defeated...


Even if I ask for md/phd at every school, they will consider me for just MD as well correct? (except for those choice few who have restrictions listed on AMCAS website) since I might not be competitive enough for md/phd. 🙁

Chattkis, you are basically saying what I told my pre-med advisor last year. Now I am perfectly happy with my decision to apply to all MD/PhD programs, because that was what I knew I reaallly wanted to do, despite my insecurity about admissions. My advisor told me it wouldn't hurt to apply to MD/PhD programs, and looking back, I think I actually got more interviews than I would for straight MD because of a demonstrated interest in research. As far as "safeties" go - I wouldn't apply straight MSTP because there are non-funded and some funded MD/PhD programs that are easier to gain admittance to and are still high quality. Also, it is great that you are looking at your application this early because MD/PhD applications often need to be approved by both the MD/PhD and MD offices before they decide to grant you an MD/PhD or straight MD interview. I think that as long as you apply early (with both AMCAS and secondaries) MD/PhD application does not hurt your chances at MD only admissions. Also, make sure that your "why I want to be an MD" essay on AMCAS does not mention research because you have plennnnty of space to talk about research in MD/PhD essays.

 

[bottles999]

From my experience, applying to the PHD/MD program significantly affects the probability of being accepted into a MD only program. I am writing from the perspective of a parent of an MD/PHD student. My son numbers were 35 MCAT, 3.9 GPA, Molecular Biology focus, three years research during undergrad.

He applied to approximately 12 schools, accepted directly in one MD/PHD program, waitlisted at 5 or 6, and rejected directly by the remaining. The acceptance was at one of his top choices so he withdrew from all of the waitlisted schools. I have no idea how the waitlists move.

He was accepted to only one MD only program and waitlisted at 1.

I strongly suspect he would have had much more success being admitted to medical only programs if he hadn’t been involved with the MD/PHD program. With an over supply of qualified candidates, why should a medical school admissions program bother to even deal with the added complexity of admitting a student who has made it clear that medical school only is a second choice. I would certainly select the qualified candidate who is most likely to accept.

Keep in mind that the acceptance process for MD and MD/PHD extends all the way into the summer. After the May 15 date, the ripple affect of candidates changing schools extends for quite some time. Anecdotal information indicates that this can extend into August.

Are you ready to deal with this kind of uncertainty? There are several studies that have been referred to in this forum dealing with the acceptance into MD/PHD programs. I believe the information distills into the simple fact that only 1 MD/PHD applicant out of 4 matriculates into a program.

This is one of the most important processes you may ever participate in. If I were advising my next child, I would STRONGLY suggest that he keep two separate application processes one for MD and another for MD/PHD programs.

Very interesting points you make. However, its not possible to submit two applications under the current AMCAS application process. When you select the schools to send your primary application you select the program, dependant on the school what is available for example:
1. Regular MD
2. Combined Medical Degree/Ph.D

You can select a school and apply as MD only and select a Different school as Combined MD/PhD. So there is some limit, in that respect. This does make sense since most schools require you to meet the criteria for the MD only program before they forward your application to the MD/PhD. You really need to know which type of program for which type of school you want to apply too.

 

[chattkis]

Also, make sure that your "why I want to be an MD" essay on AMCAS does not mention research because you have plennnnty of space to talk about research in MD/PhD essays.

REALLY? I've written my personal statement and it incorporates both. Of course I also have to write a "Why MD/PhD?" essay for AMCAS this year as well. I guess the two would be kind of the same thing... but how can I write a personal statement without mentioning anything about research?? 🙄

 

[milliardo_L]

REALLY? I've written my personal statement and it incorporates both. Of course I also have to write a "Why MD/PhD?" essay for AMCAS this year as well. I guess the two would be kind of the same thing... but how can I write a personal statement without mentioning anything about research?? 🙄

I think in my specific case I would have never gotten into any MD only program, so applying to MSTP's actually got me into med school (I guess I could have rejected MSTP and go only for the MD 😕 ) If your profile is very research-oriented, and your top choice is MD/PhD, I don't see how mentioning research could hurt. Personally, I don't see how can you not mention it, since it's probably a big part of your life and of why you want to be a doctor. Just be sure to focus it on why do you want to have the opportunity to take care of people.

 

[marionseven14]

I think in my specific case I would have never gotten into any MD only program, so applying to MSTP's actually got me into med school (I guess I could have rejected MSTP and go only for the MD 😕 ) If your profile is very research-oriented, and your top choice is MD/PhD, I don't see how mentioning research could hurt. Personally, I don't see how can you not mention it, since it's probably a big part of your life and of why you want to be a doctor. Just be sure to focus it on why do you want to have the opportunity to take care of people.

This was the advise I got from my pre-med advisor (also an MD/PhD). It matters because the MD programs have to screen you before MD/PhD sometimes and they want to make sure you have some desire to work with patients. I also was somebody who certainly didn't have perfect numbers so I think my essays mattered a lot. I did mention research once in my AMCAS essay, noting that I wanted to work in a research hospital, but that was it. You will get the "why do you want to be a doctor, regardless of research" question in interviews. I had one guy in the MD portion of an MD/PhD interview (ironically, he was a PhD) blatently tell me he didn't think I wanted to be a doctor because I took my year off just doing research - which was total BS, of course - but in the MD/PhD path you'll run into all sorts of skeptics.

 

[chattkis]

Well darn, I was so excited about my personal statement. But now I think it is too research oriented to be my just "Why MD" essay.

My school pre-med committee doesn't have much experience with the MD/PHD tract and so they were advising me to talk about both in my personal statement.
But I see now that the statement is more to be more oriented to "why MD".

This is the first year that the "Why MD/PHD?" is on the AMCAS, right?


Anyway, thanks a ton for all the advice. I'm trying to keep my confidence up.. I want this so badly!! 😎

 

[Neuronix]

Very interesting points you make. However, its not possible to submit two applications under the current AMCAS application process. When you select the schools to send your primary application you select the program, dependant on the school what is available for example:
1. Regular MD
2. Combined Medical Degree/Ph.D

This very school dependant. Even the ones that on AMCAS make you choose MD/PhD or MD, some will automatically consider you for MD as well. Others say they are considering you for MD, but you're not getting the same sort of consideration. Some don't consider you for MD at all if you apply MD/PhD.

It is true though that it seems increasing that you need to know MD vs. MD/PhD when applying. Oh well.

To the op: Don't worry about everyone else's apps. I didn't have all those scholarships/fellowships/publications everyone else had either. About the different essays, my take on them is: The personal statement is about you and what you've done in life. The MD/PhD statement is more about why MD/PhD and your research experience and interests. Sure, you can mention your research in your personal statement, but it should be much broader.

 

[chattkis]

To the op: Don't worry about everyone else's apps. I didn't have all those scholarships/fellowships/publications everyone else had either. About the different essays, my take on them is: The personal statement is about you and what you've done in life. The MD/PhD statement is more about why MD/PhD and your research experience and interests. Sure, you can mention your research in your personal statement, but it should be much broader.

Oh you are at UPenn? I went to their website and the MD/PHD program actually sounds fun! For some reason they have the only website that seems to show how student-oriented their program is...

 

[oasis786]

I didn't have all those pubs/fellowships/awards etc. either and I ended up at a highly-regarded program as well. Your commitment to the career path counts most - don't let this most important part of your presentation falter because you think you're not as brilliant as the folks who are already in or your application cohort.

 

[Neuronix]

Oh you are at UPenn? I went to their website and the MD/PHD program actually sounds fun! For some reason they have the only website that seems to show how student-oriented their program is...

It's a total recruiting tool. It's a mixed bag here just everywhere else.

 

[PostalWookie]

Fellowships, publications, and awards are nice to have, but if you don't have them, a good letter from your PI will more than make up for it.

 

[tedrik]

It's a total recruiting tool. It's a mixed bag here just everywhere else.

An honest answer.


With regard to the AMCAS personal statement, I found that this was an extremely tricky issue. It's very hard not to write about the research you have done because that has likely been a major part of your life as an undergrad and it is the whole reason behind you wanting to apply MD/PhD in the first place. However, since there will be so many essays and short answer questions about your research, you should try not to focus on your lab experience.

To those of you who are worried about the competition, I would actually be scared of you if I were applying this year. It's only the beginning of May and you're already filling out your AMCAS, not to mention the fact that you're on SDN seeking advice. You're already out to a great start and I'm sure you guys will do fine in the process 👍

Good Luck!!

 

[gwang]

I completely agree with what everyone else and Tedrik said. You are really on top of your game. I refrained from all application related topics for 3 months after the MCAT!

Re: AMCAS essay. Perhaps I am completely wrong on this, but I thought the AMCAS essay didn't matter much. I agonized over the AMCAS essay for weeks, and went through twenty some drafts. Too soon after I had sent out the AMCAS application, I started receiving secondaries. It made me wonder if half of those schools even read the primary application essays. Most of the schools I interviewed at did not have a separate MD interview, so I am guessing the "why PhD" essay is more important than the "why MD" essay. That is not to say that it's not important to express your reasons for pursuing the MD, and it's good to have some clinical experience. When asked "why MD," I was honest and said that I might not even practice, but I felt it would be helpful for the research career that I wish to pursue. Anyway, good luck with your application year. The most difficult part about the whole thing is actually at the end when you have to make a decision on only one school!

An honest answer.


With regard to the AMCAS personal statement, I found that this was an extremely tricky issue. It's very hard not to write about the research you have done because that has likely been a major part of your life as an undergrad and it is the whole reason behind you wanting to apply MD/PhD in the first place. However, since there will be so many essays and short answer questions about your research, you should try not to focus on your lab experience.

To those of you who are worried about the competition, I would actually be scared of you if I were applying this year. It's only the beginning of May and you're already filling out your AMCAS, not to mention the fact that you're on SDN seeking advice. You're already out to a great start and I'm sure you guys will do fine in the process 👍

Good Luck!!