Tuition money

[allantois]

Have you ever wondered where your student loan money are going at "non-profit" schools such as Midwestern University?

It's going to hoards of administrators getting rich on taxpayer dollar. One day we will recognize these people as parasites of the educational system. In no other country, is higher education such a lucrative business scheme.

Midwestern University, Full Filing - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica

Since 2013, the IRS has released data culled from millions of nonprofit tax filings. Use this database to find organizations and see details like their executive compensation, revenue and expenses, as well as download tax filings going back as far as 2001.

projects.propublica.org

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[batman12345]

damn...

 

[Cold Front]

This should be pinned at the top of every dental forum.


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[Life of Pablo]

Someone post the tl;dr

 

[ToothJockey]

Someone post the tl;dr

Tl;dr The CEO has a total compensation of $2,295,695, and there's a list of 15 other employees under her making $500k-1.1M

 

[Life of Pablo]

Not trying to disagree here, but isn't this expected out of any large company non-profit or not? Even the CEO of Mayo Clinic (which is a non-profit hospital) makes millions. Are they taking advantage of students? Probably but that's called capitalism. Dog eat dog world. There should be no surprises here.

Show me a large company where the CEO makes less than 500k and I'll show you a failing company.

 

[ToothJockey]

Not trying to disagree here, but isn't this expected out of any large company non-profit or not? Even the CEO of Mayo Clinic (which is a non-profit hospital) makes millions. Are they taking advantage of students? Probably but that's called capitalism. Dog eat dog world. There should be no surprises here.

Show me a large company where the CEO makes less than 500k and I'll show you a failing company.

That's true, a CEO worth having is going to cost a lot of money. But surely this doesn't justify a 5% increase in tuition per year

 

[deleted1048419]

the student federal loan bubble needs to implode...

 

[batman12345]

Has anyone (even doctors) gotten their loans forgiven through one of the income based repayment programs yet? I’m assuming when many begin to, and face a large tax bomb, is when something may happen...

 

[lwergod]

Has anyone (even doctors) gotten their loans forgiven through one of the income based repayment programs yet? I’m assuming when many begin to, and face a large tax bomb, is when something may happen...

The PLSF success rate 10 years ago was 2%. It's predicted that it will hit 50% by 2024.

 

[batman12345]

The PLSF success rate 10 years ago was 2%. It's predicted that it will hit 50% by 2024.

Yea I’ve heard that PSLF forgiveness had begun for some a few years ago, and that the success rate was pretty bad in the beginning.

I’m more curious on the other programs though, like PAYE or REPAYE. With these programs, you get hit with a tax bomb (no tax bomb on PSLF). So for the average person, getting tens of thousands in loan forgiveness for their bachelors after 20 years means thousands extra they have to pay in taxes.

But for the doctor of whichever field, they wait 25 years before forgiveness. At this point, they are getting hundreds of thousands forgiven meaning they will have a tax bomb in the hundreds of thousands amount. I’m curious when these people will reach forgiveness age, because at that point we may see some reform.

 

[GoDental101]

Yea I’ve heard that PSLF forgiveness had begun for some a few years ago, and that the success rate was pretty bad in the beginning.

I’m more curious on the other programs though, like PAYE or REPAYE. With these programs, you get hit with a tax bomb (no tax bomb on PSLF). So for the average person, getting tens of thousands in loan forgiveness for their bachelors after 20 years means thousands extra they have to pay in taxes.

But for the doctor of whichever field, they wait 25 years before forgiveness. At this point, they are getting hundreds of thousands forgiven meaning they will have a tax bomb in the hundreds of thousands amount. I’m curious when these people will reach forgiveness age, because at that point we may see some reform.

I doubt there will be any tax reform to save the doctors/dentists who are making on average 3x more than the average American. Uncle Sam is going to want his taxes especially on the high earners.

 

[batman12345]

I doubt there will be any tax reform to save the doctors/dentists who are making on average 3x more than the average American. Uncle Sam is going to want his taxes especially on the high earners.

Thats true...but you also have to take into account the fact that the government is expecting to collect tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands for the doctors) in taxes at once. How many people will have this amount in liquid cash lying around to pay that massive tax bomb? Very few save efficiently as it is. Could be possible for the government to get rid of the tax bomb altogether. But again, we won't know till we reach that tipping point when the hand is forced for change to be implemented.

 

[GoDental101]

Thats true...but you also have to take into account the fact that the government is expecting to collect tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands for the doctors) in taxes at once. How many people will have this amount in liquid cash lying around to pay that massive tax bomb? Very few save efficiently as it is. Could be possible for the government to get rid of the tax bomb altogether. But again, we won't know till we reach that tipping point when the hand is forced for change to be implemented.

A dentist 25 years into their career would be very sorry if they didn’t have a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of assets that the IRS could come after at that point in there career. (Property, retirement, savings, etc) I don’t think the IRS will look past that. I just wouldn’t go into this thinking the bubble will just burst and you won’t have to pay taxes on that forgiven amount.

 

[Ladm8]

Not sure why Midwestern always to get a lot of stick on SDN..There are multiple other programs out there that are more expensive with worse outcomes. Also most people listed on that return are executives for the entire system (medical school, dental school, optometry school) although the compensation is on the high side

 

[batman12345]

A dentist 25 years into their career would be very sorry if they didn’t have a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of assets that the IRS could come after at that point in there career. (Property, retirement, savings, etc) I don’t think the IRS will look past that. I just wouldn’t go into this thinking the bubble will just burst and you won’t have to pay taxes on that forgiven amount.

Oh I don’t disagree with you on that last sentence. Definitely don’t go into it thinking you won’t have to pay taxes. Save up for the bill no matter what. If you have to pay, then it’s cool because you saved. If you don’t, then you have extra money saved up so good for you.

Reason I say there’s a small possibility the tax bomb may be done away with is because of how unlikely it may be for people to have so much extra cash to throw at taxes in that given calendar year. It won’t just be dentists, but physicians, people in all healthcare fields, and virtually anyone who had undergrad or graduate loans and went through an income based repayment program.

Some states have already passed laws where there won’t be (state) income tax on these kinds of forgiven loans. The million dollar question is how the federal government will act. Everyone has their own idea or proposal, so SOMETHING will eventually happen.

 

[allantois]

Not trying to disagree here, but isn't this expected out of any large company non-profit or not? Even the CEO of Mayo Clinic (which is a non-profit hospital) makes millions. Are they taking advantage of students? Probably but that's called capitalism. Dog eat dog world. There should be no surprises here.

Show me a large company where the CEO makes less than 500k and I'll show you a failing company.

Except that these universities are not real businesses subject to free capitalism. They are all but guaranteed to succeed with government-backed student loans. A ***** should be able to run an organization with basically a guaranteed income stream. These administrators are in effect siphoning money from the taxpayers and the rest of productive society. I don't think we should view education as a business, although that is exactly what it has become. To me, it should be more akin to civil service, especially public universities. We don't pay our president or governors millions of dollars for managing large bureaucracies. It is not that the cost of educating students has gone up so much in the past few decades, it's that the number of administrators has grown many fold.

 

[2TH MVR]

Thy

Not sure why Midwestern always to get a lot of stick on SDN..There are multiple other programs out there that are more expensive with worse outcomes. Also most people listed on that return are executives for the entire system (medical school, dental school, optometry school) although the compensation is on the high side

They represent what is economically wrong with dental education today. Yes. They are like other capitalistic entities, but these schools prey on the uninformed or misinformed young students with dreams of being a dentist, but with no real financial background. It's disgusting. Of course .... they are only part of the problem. But they are a part of it regardless.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Reason I say there’s a small possibility the tax bomb may be done away with is because of how unlikely it may be for people to have so much extra cash to throw at taxes in that given calendar year.

I’m glad you think the IRS is so understanding.

Big Hoss

 

[knewstance]

Honestly, I don't think the salaries are that out of line. Most program deans within the university are making around +/-$500k. That is what a successful doctor/dentist/whatever would/should be making at the end stages of their career if they are still working full time (like program deans do).

It was already mentioned that the CEO/President/University Dean was making a big salary, but again - that is justified.

It's expensive, and I understand that and I agree that it sucks. But I do think these salaries are about what they should be.

FWIW - Midwestern stated that they will not be increasing tuition fees next year.

 

[Cold Front]

FWIW - Midwestern stated that they will not be increasing tuition fees next year.

They will make up for it the following year. Probably by over 5%.

Some schools have already raised their tuition for this fall’s class.


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[MG14]

Honestly, I don't think the salaries are that out of line. Most program deans within the university are making around +/-$500k. That is what a successful doctor/dentist/whatever would/should be making at the end stages of their career if they are still working full time (like program deans do).

It was already mentioned that the CEO/President/University Dean was making a big salary, but again - that is justified.

It's expensive, and I understand that and I agree that it sucks. But I do think these salaries are about what they should be.

FWIW - Midwestern stated that they will not be increasing tuition fees next year.

Yeah, I may be a little different but I personally think thats unnecessary. Sure, private school we could make that argument, and thats fine, but for public schools, I know deans making $400k+. That's completely messed up. I mean in comparison, the range for U.S. governors goes from $70k-200k. The U.S. president makes $400k. So a dean of a public institution should make more than the president? In my opinion no. Thats the major problem with schools. Take from a vulnerable group, over spend and feed high salaries for the higher ups. Its just a greed game, and they feast off the vulnerable population.

 

[allantois]

Is it any wonder that these schools are so poorly run and hemorrhaging money? None of these administrators have run a real business or done anything productive in their lives outside of ivory tower.

I’ve been watching the president of my university, who mind you makes $2+ million a year, asking for donations to help students. It is simply sickening and completely out of touch with reality.

 

[knewstance]

Yeah, I may be a little different but I personally think thats unnecessary. Sure, private school we could make that argument, and thats fine, but for public schools, I know deans making $400k+. That's completely messed up. I mean in comparison, the range for U.S. governors goes from $70k-200k. The U.S. president makes $400k. So a dean of a public institution should make more than the president? In my opinion no. Thats the major problem with schools. Take from a vulnerable group, over spend and feed high salaries for the higher ups. Its just a greed game, and they feast off the vulnerable population.

I guess we just have a different point of view with what a leader is worth, and that's fine.