Type of internship needed needed for ENT, and the ability to switch into ENT

[Strength&Speed]

two questions. One, what type of surgical internship do you need for ENT.
2. if you started general and tried to switch into ENT, how difficult would this be.

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[earboy]

1. Interesting question.It used to be that you could do any prelim or categorical surgical intern year and that was enough. As of a year or two ago, the internship for ENT residents became the domain of ENT and not general surgery. This means that certain requirements were put in place re: what rotations had to be done intern year. You can look it up but the intern year must require so many months of anesthesia, neurosurg, ENT, in addition to Gen Surg.

If someone were trying to transfer in from general, I imagine they could waive it if you didn't get your 2 months of anesthesia during your intern year, or something like that. But don't quote me because I don't know really. Or maybe they could have you satisfy your requirements later on down the road (which would be a logistical nightmare, of course). Not sure since I've never seen it. This would be a geat question for a PD, though.

2. Switching to ENT from general has happened, I'm sure. I've never seen it. We had an ENT->ENT transfer at our program. Bottom line, it's not common and definitely harder than switching from another ENT program. It would be exponentially more difficult to get something PGY3 or higher. I would think most ENT programs would be willing to take someone for the PGY2 class and nothing higher since you would still need every year of training. So, if you're willing to transfer in as a PGY2 regardless of your year in general surgery, maybe. But I don't know how medicare funding works and how many years you're allowed to be paid as a resident, etc.

I wouldn't recommend this route. You're counting on so few spots opening up a given year with a strong preference for transfers from other ENT programs before they look at someone in a different surgical field.

 

[Dunce]

If I remember correctly UT Houston has a resident that went from General Surgery to ENT PGY-2. I think this person was in a categorical Gen Surg spot to begin with.

This type of situation is exceedingly uncommon, however.

 

[DrDre311]

At my med school one of the PRS residents had started out as a categorical GS resident, hated it, and after his intern year switched to ENT at a different program. He's the only person I've ever heard of doing this.

 

[Strength&Speed]

cool, thanks guys. so what im hearing is that you need to do an ENT internship now...that seems to be the standard. I assume then, that that is all taken care of with the match. No separate matching for internship.

 

[Strength&Speed]

cool, thanks guys. so what im hearing is that you need to do an ENT internship now...that seems to be the standard. I assume then, that that is all taken care of with the match....so no separate matching for the internship....

 

[Dunce]

Yeah, when you match to a program you get the intern year (a pseudo general surgery internship) there as well. A few years ago you had to match to your ENT program and a separate prelim surgery spot as well which would often be at a different institution. It's a much better setup now.


Here is the official word on the requirements for the intern year:
taken from page 2 here
http://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/downloads/RRC_progReq/280otopr707.pdf


3. In order to meet these goals, the PGY-1 year should include (in no
required order):

a) a minimum of five months of structured education in at least
three of the following: general surgery, thoracic surgery,
vascular surgery, pediatric surgery, plastic surgery, surgical
oncology.

b) one month of structured education in each of the following
four clinical areas: emergency medicine, critical care unit
(intensive care unit, trauma unit or similar), anesthesia,
neurological surgery.

(1) An additional maximum of three months of
otolaryngology-head and neck surgery is optional,
and any remaining months of the PGY-1 year may be
taken on the clinical services listed in 3 a) or 3 b)
above.

 

[ent]

Anyone starting a PGY-2 year in ENT needs to have completed a year of general surgery. Now as the above post has mentioned, there are usually guidelines for the intern year an ENT resident has to complete. Now, there are people who don't match into ENT and take on a general surgery preliminary position, and then if they get lucky and a PGY-2 spot opens up, they could apply for that open spot. If you look at otomatch's forum, recently 2 PGY-2 spots opened up that were advertised on that site. But there is no guarantee that a PGY-2 spot will open up or if it does, you will be given the spot. Good luck to the person who initially started this forum.