UCSD vs. UOP vs. Pacific Oregon for Residency

[Pharm3110]

Hi everyone,

I posted this at the Pharmacy forum but no one has answered so I'll try my luck here. I need some opinions on what school to go to in order to compete for residency.

A little bit about me: I am in senior year of college and currently applying for pharmacy school this cycle. My plan is that after getting my PharmD degree, I will do residency and my ultimate goal is to be specialized in cardiology and to work at a medical center. I know that is quite ambitious. Retail is already a default in my head but I figure dreaming a little won’t hurt. Plus, pursuing that route may give me more career options. I prefer to practice in California.

I have three schools of interest and here are the statuses of my application process:
UOP (Stockton, CA): Accepted
UCSD (San Diego, CA): Interviewed, I should hear from them soon.
Pacific Oregon (Hillsboro, OR): Interview on March 1st.

UOP is my safe bet because I got accepted. From what I know, in term of residency competitive advantage, UCSD is the strongest of the three (outstanding faculty, lots of hospitals around). Plus I heard somewhere that if a UCSD grad wants a residency, he/she will get it (Can anyone confirm?). I am still waiting to hear from them and I think I did great on my interview so I hope the news to come is good news.

The problem here is between UOP and Pacific in case UCSD says no (really hoping it won’t happen). The two are both 3-year programs, which give me the advantage of graduating one year ahead of my colleagues who applies this cycle. A pharmacist who I volunteered to told me to go to the cheapest school so I can avoid fewer loans. Pacific is much cheaper than UOP (~150k vs. ~220k). However, can Pacific grads get a job in California?

A friend of mine who is in a pharmacy school told me that the only things that matter when applying for residency is good GPA and connections that I’ll make while in school. Pacific has the GPA advantage because they use Pass/Fail system at 90%, meaning their grads’ GPA is all 4.0. UOP seems to have the connection advantage because it is more established and have a huge amount of alumni.

I think they all can get me to retail but I am wondering which will help me get a residency, especially Pacific. I am having a little problem with finance so in case Pacific is not worth going; I can save myself the airfare.

Sorry for that long wall of text, but I really look forward to what you all are thinking about my situation.

Thanks.

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[UnEdgeUcated]

I don't think pacific is worth going for you.

You've clearly listed the advantages of UOP and they all pertain to your end goal of a residency. Pacific's only advantage to UOP, in my opinion, is cost.

 

[radio frequency]

It's not just grades and connections. It's also involvement, research, etc (depending on the type of residency you're seeking). UoP would be a great choice for the involvement piece; they're known for having very active student groups for national pharmacy organizations. I don't know if any of these schools offer research, but I would bet UCSD would be more research-intensive.

I think the pass/fail grading system isn't in favor of UoP or against it, though. Residency directors will know the school gives 4.0s to all students who pass and will judge the applicants accordingly.

Your pharmacist friend is somewhat right though. If you are going to be $220k in debt on graduation, doing a residency is going to be VERY HARD when you have other opportunities. That debt is not going to be easy to pay off, especially if you take a year or a few to do a PGY1 or PGY2. If this were just a few tens of thousands of dollars, it would be one thing, but you are talking about very long term debt from either school. I don't think $220k is realistically feasible for a PharmD grad to pay off.

 

[Pharm3110]

It's not just grades and connections. It's also involvement, research, etc (depending on the type of residency you're seeking). UoP would be a great choice for the involvement piece; they're known for having very active student groups for national pharmacy organizations. I don't know if any of these schools offer research, but I would bet UCSD would be more research-intensive.

I think the pass/fail grading system isn't in favor of UoP or against it, though. Residency directors will know the school gives 4.0s to all students who pass and will judge the applicants accordingly.

Your pharmacist friend is somewhat right though. If you are going to be $220k in debt on graduation, doing a residency is going to be VERY HARD when you have other opportunities. That debt is not going to be easy to pay off, especially if you take a year or a few to do a PGY1 or PGY2. If this were just a few tens of thousands of dollars, it would be one thing, but you are talking about very long term debt from either school. I don't think $220k is realistically feasible for a PharmD grad to pay off.

Whoo, finally someone responded to this. Thank you.

You are absolutely right about UOP in term of student involvement and UCSD about research. In fact, in order to graduate at UCSD, P4 students have to present a research poster, so they have to do research in some way. UOP does offer quite limited amount of research, mostly clinical and very very few of bench-type of research. On the other hand, I'm not sure about UCSD's student involvement. I asked about that at the interview, they said they have plenty but somehow it still strikes me as not as much as UOP seems to offer.

I have been thinking about the debt that is gonna accumulate after graduation and that's what makes it hard on me. I know $220k is a lot but correct me if I'm wrong, it seems like the average debt right now for students in CA. USC grads are having $300k in debt right now, if not more. Pacific Oregon is very appealing to me because they are the cheapest in the three, but because I have not been to the interview to ask so I don't know how it is in term of student involvement, research and especially ability of placement in California. When I compare tuition of UOP and UCSD, UCSD is cheaper than UOP by around ~$20k-$30k, however I'm losing one year of potential employment if I go to UCSD, which will make UCSD more expensive overall and UOP a better choice.

But again, because I want to do residency, I feel like UCSD will give me better chance. Is there any case of someone does residency after working for some amount of years to pay off their loans? If so, that will be another option for me but I don't know if it's feasible. I have heard mostly people have done residency right after graduation, which means they somewhat decide to pay a higher debt at the end. What do you think?

 

[Pharm3110]

I don't think pacific is worth going for you.

You've clearly listed the advantages of UOP and they all pertain to your end goal of a residency. Pacific's only advantage to UOP, in my opinion, is cost.

Yeah, you are right. Actually I am considering of canceling my interview. What is your opinion between UOP and UCSD?

 

[radio frequency]

Some people do work a few years before going to do a residency, but I've heard that's very competitive. It can be more difficult to match that way.

I also think $300k for a pharmacy degree is ludicrous/borderline stupid. Just because everyone is doing it does not make it a good idea. Remember the housing bubble a few years ago? The reason people bought at such high prices was because their neighbors kept telling them it was normal and that "everyone else is doing it." $300k for a PharmD is not normal and is not a good idea, no matter how many people are doing it. The job does not pay enough to make this kind of school debt feasible.

Find a mortgage calculator and run the rates with the amounts of loans you will be taking on. Look at how much you will actually be paying in total on these loans -- it's much higher than the actual loan amount. You may find it eye opening.

 

[Corytrade]

220k for UOP? Are you including living expenses in those loan figures?

 

[Pharm3110]

Some people do work a few years before going to do a residency, but I've heard that's very competitive. It can be more difficult to match that way.

I also think $300k for a pharmacy degree is ludicrous/borderline stupid. Just because everyone is doing it does not make it a good idea. Remember the housing bubble a few years ago? The reason people bought at such high prices was because their neighbors kept telling them it was normal and that "everyone else is doing it." $300k for a PharmD is not normal and is not a good idea, no matter how many people are doing it. The job does not pay enough to make this kind of school debt feasible.

Find a mortgage calculator and run the rates with the amounts of loans you will be taking on. Look at how much you will actually be paying in total on these loans -- it's much higher than the actual loan amount. You may find it eye opening.

That's why I'm not considering going to USC. It is so expensive. My interview is coming though. I figure I should check it out myself.

I checked with a mortgage calculator and you are right, it was really eye-opening. Not sure how much I will make in a month but it seems like almost half needs to pay to my debts. That is scary. :|

220k for UOP? Are you including living expenses in those loan figures?

Yeah, I tried to include everything, because I'm not planning to work during school (especially with UOP). I got an estimated number and I rounded it up for miscellaneous costs.

 

[Pharm3110]

Just an update: I decided to cancel my interview at Pacific Oregon. So the battle is between UOP and UCSD now

 

[Corytrade]

You said you would take UCSD if you got in? Or would you have to think about it?