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I know there are so many threads about this but all of them are outdated. What do you guys think would be the pros and cons of attending these schools. Your insights will be very helpful. UOP and UCSF are 3-years programs while USC is a 4-year program.
 

BC_89

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Two things you look for in a program:

1) Regional Accreditation (None of this pre-candidate or national accreditation status)
2) Cost

Though 3 year programs (I am in one myself), crunch the cost of living with tuition and other sources. I do not see any benefit of going to an institute that costs more money for the same degree. If the numbers are in your favor when comparing cost vs opportunity cost with a desire to do retail, I'd go to an accelerated program and get to a job site quicker rather than later.
 

zona2016

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UCSF is the rare gem of being in state and a 3 year program and being near a lot of biotech companies, so by far that is the best program.
USC and UOP are not good options just because of the student loan debt is extreme for those programs which would make your ROI pretty bad long term. I've heard of USC students getting up to 300-400k in debt for at most a low six-figure income as a pharmacist in a heavily taxed state. The numbers are just not there period because you can always go to a cheaper school somewhere in the US.
 

BMBiology

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UCSF is the rare gem of being in state and a 3 year program and being near a lot of biotech companies, so by far that is the best program.
USC and UOP are not good options just because of the student loan debt is extreme for those programs which would make your ROI pretty bad long term. I've heard of USC students getting up to 300-400k in debt for at most a low six-figure income as a pharmacist in a heavily taxed state. The numbers are just not there period because you can always go to a cheaper school somewhere in the US.
Ucsf is not #1 based on the number of students who failed the CPJE.
 

Pharmacy is a Scam

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I know there are so many threads about this but all of them are outdated. What do you guys think would be the pros and cons of attending these schools. Your insights will be very helpful. UOP and UCSF are 3-years programs while USC is a 4-year program.
Pros: You get an excuse to live in California for 3-4 years.

Cons: You will likely be unemployed in 3-4 years.
 
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WVUPharm2007

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I'd go to the cheapest one.
 
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lcow2004

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I think the reputation of UCSF is really going down. They already lost their place as #1 pharmacy school and now recently with the whole CPJE cheating scandal. I'm sure this is going to be on the minds of everyone when graduates are out looking for a job or residency.
 

RxEvileye

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I think the reputation of UCSF is really going down. They already lost their place as #1 pharmacy school and now recently with the whole CPJE cheating scandal. I'm sure this is going to be on the minds of everyone when graduates are out looking for a job or residency.
I found a job shortly after residency (over half of my class matched last year and a good 10% or so do fellowships or industry) and on our school's graduate survey only about 10% put "To Be Determined" for their immediate plans after graduation. My only difficulty finding a job was due to moving into a saturated area, but I still got interviews for "clinical" positions and had an outpatient offer. My impression is that joblessness is not common for my class, and it probably helps going to an older established school.

Could you clarify what you mean by the whole CPJE cheating scandal? As far as I know, the only confirmed person was a UCSD student but people were accusing various schools here and on Reddit.

Ucsf is not #1 based on the number of students who failed the CPJE.
You are right, the recent percentages have been lower: Examination Pass Rates - California State Board of Pharmacy

I think our APPEs and training prepared us well for residency, but not necessarily board exam knowledge. It was relatively new my year for the school to provide RxPrep to us and they have made a lot of changes to our review course at the end of school. When the revamped 3-year curriculum students start graduating, we will see if all the changes they made pay off in terms of board exam pass rates. I personally like a lot of the changes they have made to the curriculum itself (all Pass/No Pass, integrated blocks, earlier longitudinal IPPEs, "synthesis weeks" for material review, etc.) regardless of debate about the 4-year to 3-year change.
 
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BMBiology

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I found a job shortly after residency (over half of my class matched last year and a good 10% or so do fellowships or industry) and on our school's graduate survey only about 10% put "To Be Determined" for their immediate plans after graduation. My only difficulty finding a job was due to moving into a saturated area, but I still got interviews for "clinical" positions and had an outpatient offer. My impression is that joblessness is not common for my class, and it probably helps going to an older established school.

Could you clarify what you mean by the whole CPJE cheating scandal? As far as I know, the only confirmed person was a UCSD student but people were accusing various schools here and on Reddit.



You are right, the recent percentages have been lower: Examination Pass Rates - California State Board of Pharmacy

I think our APPEs and training prepared us well for residency, but not necessarily board exam knowledge. It was relatively new my year for the school to provide RxPrep to us and they have made a lot of changes to our review course at the end of school. When the revamped 3-year curriculum students start graduating, we will see if all the changes they made pay off in terms of board exam pass rates. I personally like a lot of the changes they have made to the curriculum itself (all Pass/No Pass, integrated blocks, earlier longitudinal IPPEs, "synthesis weeks" for material review, etc.) regardless of debate about the 4-year to 3-year change.
It is not just the CPJE, UCSF students also have a subpar passage rate on the NAPLEX. I am talking about minimum competency here.
 

RxEvileye

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It is not just the CPJE, UCSF students also have a subpar passage rate on the NAPLEX. I am talking about minimum competency here.
Yes, I referenced board exams in general and the CPJE pages included some NAPLEX stats as well if you scroll down.

They are also here: https://nabp.pharmacy/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/NAPLEX-Pass-Rates-August-2019.pdf

Same or higher than USC and UOP 2016-2017, dropped recently to just over 90% in 2018.

If about 12 graduates (that would be 10% of my UCSF class of ~120) weren't prepared for the tests but were able to get residencies or jobs after a retake, I am less inclined to focus on temporary fluctuations of 5-10% in board exam pass rates as heavily as this forum does unless it continues to drop year after year. There are many factors that could have led to this drop other than what I mentioned.

Not sure what you define minimum competency as, but much of board exam prep was memorize-and-regurgitate. I never did non-sterile compounding much during rotations or after graduation, but they have a focus on things like the steps to make capsules and suppositories. I don't think a single classmate became a compounding pharmacist yet. Biostatistics was a large portion of the test (I love the topic and passed both boards), but our single-quarter biostats class was P/NP while others were graded so classmates largely ignored it during didactics. This has changed since 2018. Not trying to come up with excuses as ideally everyone would pass at well-known schools the first try, but careful focusing on boards as a sole reason to choose a school or not.

Check out the placement survey stats for some of the other California schools for pre-pharmacy students who aim to do residency and land the coveted "clinical" jobs:

UCSF 86% matched who tried, most (like me) their top 1-2 choice program: Graduation Rate and Graduate Performance | PharmD Degree Program | UCSF

Comparable to USC but not specific: Graduation and Post-Graduation Data · USC School of Pharmacy

Less than 60 of ~200 UOP grads did any postgraduate program: Doctor of Pharmacy Program Outcomes Data

WesternU less than 20% residency and 24% unknown/no response for job: Vital Statistics | College of Pharmacy

Touro 33 to 41 students residency or fellowship (I believe <50% of class): http://cop.tu.edu/COP_StudentPerformanceAccreditation.pdf
 
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stoichiometrist

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The job market for pharmacists is terrible and getting worse by the year. With the direction pharmacy is going I would seriously consider a different profession.

Computer programming, finance, accounting, engineering, the trades, etc. pay as well as pharmacy if not better, offer far better job prospects and work conditions, and do not require you to take out $200k+ in loans and spend an additional 4 years of your life in school. Jobs in these professions are actually quite abundant in California, whereas even if you do get into a California pharmacy school (not difficult by any means) you would most definitely have to move out of state due to the lack of jobs in California.