UCSF vs USC full-ride

[dhb10]

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Hi guys,

I've been extremely fortunate enough to have these two great choices, and now I have the difficult choice of deciding between the two. I'm not from Cali and I've only been to LA & SF for a day during interviews. Prestige isn't really important to me (also interested in noncompetitive specialties) but location, class coherence/spirit, clinical training, ability to work w/ Latino populations & nature/cool getaways are. Here is a breakdown:

USC:
debt (living expenses according to school's website) ~ 100K
+LAC = urban-underserved hospital (more hands-on clinical training)
++weather
+more latino?
-bad location?
-spread out classmates/city (live all over city); traffic

UCSF:
debt (w/ approximate fin-aid estimate) ~ 160/170ishK
+UCSF solid clinical training (from what I hrd in interview)?
+SF (I don't know much about city but everyone seems to love it!)
+public transportation
+good location?
-slight minus on weather (I live in the Caribbean and man do i love hot weather)
-crazy housing situation?

Any insight on the two schools, cities and the criteria above would be really appreciated.

 

[keevwu]

TONS of latinos at USC. Also great hot weather. Cheaper too, great clinical training. I think this is a no-brainer. (also, housing is better/cheaper in LA than SF)

 

[alpinism]

If you're interested in EM or General Surgery = USC
If you really want to work with underserved Latinos = USC
If not = UCSF

Overall ~70K of debt isn't all that much in the long run.

At the end of the day you'll have no trouble getting a job and being able to pay it off coming from UCSF.

 

[C@lidoc]

I'm in the same situation, deciding between USC and UCSF, except I don't have a full ride at USC. I'm from SoCal and am probably going to choose UCSF. It's cheaper for me (because USC will probably give me all loans) and I like the Bay area more (went to school up there). I only wish UCSF were a private school, but otherwise I would pick UCSF. 70K difference is not much and well worth the money I think.

 

[breakintheroof]

I think this should be in a different forum, 2014-2015 School Specific Discussions. Perhaps @Ismet could move it if that's the case? (Edit: It has been moved, thank you!)

Congratulations on your choices, OP! If this goes like most similar threads, there will probably be people telling you you'd be crazy to turn down a cheaper option at a great school like USC, and others who say you'd be crazy to turn down a more "prestigious" school like UCSF.

It's a tough decision! I'm in a similar situation, considering UCSF alongside cheaper options. (I didn't apply to USC because I fear the sun and SoCal.)

I'm not from Cali and I've only been to LA & SF for a day during interviews.

With little familiarity with both cities, maybe you could benefit from another visit--have you thought about second look?

 

[Psai]

Sounds like you want to go to USC. UCSF is an awesome school though, can't go wrong with that

 

[Iceandmedicine]

Not saying anything about the schools themselves, as they are obviously both excellent schools with great clinical training, but having lived in both LA and SF Bay Area, I can say that SF>>>>>>LA. Living in La and dealing with the traffic/spread out nature of the city is a nightmare.
Also, you mentioned proximity to nature/outdoors things, well the Bay Area is heaven for the city lover who also loves the outdoors, there is so much hiking/forests/skiing/camping in close proximity! Like Big Sur, Monterey, Lake Tahoe, Emigrant wilderness, the redwoods, point Reyes, Marin, mount tam, and I can keep going haha.
One thing tho: SF is generally a foggy/colder city. If all year round sun is what you want you won't get that is SF! But the days that the sun is out and bright are amazing here, and everyone is outdoors and enjoying it, so good vibes in SF all around! 🙂

 

[dhb10]

I'm in the same situation, deciding between USC and UCSF, except I don't have a full ride at USC. I'm from SoCal and am probably going to choose UCSF. It's cheaper for me (because USC will probably give me all loans) and I like the Bay area more (went to school up there). I only wish UCSF were a private school, but otherwise I would pick UCSF. 70K difference is not much and well worth the money I think.

Congrats on UCSF! Yeah, everyone seems to love it up there and I have to admit I was impressed during the interview. And yeah even with the scholarship, they are somewhat comparable (although I would have to account for interest on Grad Plus Loans if I attend UCSF). It certainly is going to be a tough choice!

I think this should be in a different forum, 2014-2015 School Specific Discussions. Perhaps @Ismet could move it if that's the case? (Edit: It has been moved, thank you!)
Congratulations on your choices, OP! If this goes like most similar threads, there will probably be people telling you you'd be crazy to turn down a cheaper option at a great school like USC, and others who say you'd be crazy to turn down a more "prestigious" school like UCSF.
It's a tough decision! I'm in a similar situation, considering UCSF alongside cheaper options. (I didn't apply to USC because I fear the sun and SoCal.) With little familiarity with both cities, maybe you could benefit from another visit--have you thought about second look?

Thanks for moving it! I agree that familiarity with both schools would be a good thing! Unfortunately, due to some unexpected circumstances that came up this year, I don't think I'll have the time off work/funds to come to either second-look :/ I'm gonna try hard to make it happen though. And haha yes, those are definitely the two perspectives (money vs. prestige -- also LA vs SF). From what I hear from people it seems like the SF vs LA battle has long been settled (SF) so now its the money vs. prestige that has to decide it. Thanks for the input!

Sounds like you want to go to USC. UCSF is an awesome school though, can't go wrong with that

Haha yes, I would really like to be convinced that USC rocks and LA rocks so med school would be cheaper and I could have more Sunshine. But SF sounds like its almost too cool too pass up too. And UCSF was an impressive school.

Not saying anything about the schools themselves, as they are obviously both excellent schools with great clinical training, but having lived in both LA and SF Bay Area, I can say that SF>>>>>>LA. Living in La and dealing with the traffic/spread out nature of the city is a nightmare.
Also, you mentioned proximity to nature/outdoors things, well the Bay Area is heaven for the city lover who also loves the outdoors, there is so much hiking/forests/skiing/camping in close proximity! Like Big Sur, Monterey, Lake Tahoe, Emigrant wilderness, the redwoods, point Reyes, Marin, mount tam, and I can keep going haha.
One thing tho: SF is generally a foggy/colder city. If all year round sun is what you want you won't get that is SF! But the days that the sun is out and bright are amazing here, and everyone is outdoors and enjoying it, so good vibes in SF all around! 🙂

Thanks for the post! Hmmm...yes I can definitely see now why people are obsessed with SF while it seems more LA people are looking for an opportunity to go north. Ahh sounds like its gonna be a tough choice. I'll have to decide if spending probably 100K more (with accrued interest) is justified for UCSF.

 

[Slack3r]

UCSF is a top 10 school with a nationally (and internationally?) renowned name. USC is a good school, but nowhere near the reputation of UCSF.

I'd go UCSF 1000x. You never know if you'll end up wanting to do something competitive.

 

[MalibuPreMD]

I would choose UCSF. I love my school, but UCSF's prestige is worth the extra 80k. LAC is great and provides an amazing service to the LA population, but it's not as big of a deal as premeds make it out to be.

 

[alpinism]

UCSF is generally regarded as one of the 5-10 best general surgery residencies in the country, and their students the past several years on the interview trail have done extremely well.

I should have clarified and said GS for the trauma.

But, yeah I agree UCSF is an overall much better academic GS program.

 

[wegotthis14]

As much as I love USC, UCSF is simply a better school. Even if you should attend UCSF, your debt load won't be particularly high. San Francisco can be a bit chilly, but the weather isn't particularly bad. Adjusting to it shouldn't bee too difficult. Also, the city is much nicer than LA. There will be plenty of opportunities to work with under served Hispanic populations in SF, too.

 

[iniquus]

UCSF over USC. Enough said.

 

[dpmd]

I went to USC and absolutely loved it. As for the traffic thing, yeah it sucked when I lived way out in West Covina but then I moved to Monterey Hills (a very nice community about 6 miles away from the health science campus) and had no traffic issues to deal with daily. There are a few other really nice but affordable places to live where traffic isn't as big a deal. When I lived in northern california (especially when I took a class in SF) traffic sucked even more and parking was more of a nightmare. I actually hate going to SF. It is crowded, there are plenty of dirty areas that smell like piss, parking is expensive and walking around longer distances gets tiring, it is colder, and with all the tall buildings even when the sun is out you don't see it so much. I also hated venturing to the westside when I lived in LA because of traffic and parking, but where I lived I could get good food and entertainment without driving 45 minutes and taking time to find the cheapest parking.

I don't know much about UCSF, but if it is anything like UCLA and other academic places the clinical experience is going to be much better at USC. Seeing patients starting the first week of first year, skills lab with the surgery interest group learning to suture and do other procedures, being able to do shifts in the ER starting first year through the ER interest group and actually getting to do stuff like suturing and reductions, various clinic volunteer options, and actually feeling like a valuable member of the team on third and fourth year rotations (I did bronchs, pegs, central lines, chest tubes, plus made vent and other daily management decisions by the time I was a 4th yr-I have known interns at UCLA and UCSD that haven't done that much)

For class coherence: I was really tight with my group from introduction to clinical medicine, also having the small group sessions each afternoon made us closer too. Just because people lived in all kinds of areas didn't mean we didn't socialize.

Bad area: yeah, the health science campus is in East LA. However I never felt unsafe walking around there day or night (except for the basement at the old LAC, that place seemed sketchy as hell). My car stereo got stolen once, but can't say that wouldn't have happened in SF. The neighborhood I lived in was a great area though even though it wasn't that far away. I think the criminal element was too lazy to walk uphill.

Working with Latinos: Pretty much goes without saying since you are in East LA. I went from moderate Spanish skills to fluency allowing me to consent patients and discuss end of life care (things I did as a student because it was easier than calling the translator and because I felt comfortable doing it).

Nature: Angeles National Forest, various lakes, the mountains and hills surrounding the area, beaches, islands, skiing, hiking and cycling trails, you name it.

Perhaps less prestige or whatever, but it isn't like USC is some unkown place. I haven't had anyone (interviewer or patient) be disappointed by where I went to school.

 

[peanutsss]

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[dpmd]

Not sure where you drove 2-3 hrs from in LA that you thought the terrain was the same.

Also, you thought LA traffic was worse than heading in and out of SF?

 

[peanutsss]

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[Skatoodles]

I'm also in the same situation and got offered a half tuition scholarship (~ 100k) at another school in the Midwest. I've interviewed at both USC and UCSF as well but only got accepted at UCSF. Right now, I'm still deciding. Honestly, I doubt the UCSF name will be a huge difference. Both have strong programs so you shouldn't have a problem with entering competitive specialties. You might gain slightly more clinical training with Latino populations in LAC than from SF General (but you'll get experience working with under-served populations at both schools).

I can't speak for LA but the Bay area has TONS of nature/outdoorsy activities. I enjoyed my visit to SF a lot more than my visit to LA but my opinion is a bit biased since I grew up in the Bay area. I would definitely recommend taking a second look as others have already done to get a feel for each city and email current students through the admissions offices if you want to hear more views. As for SF housing, here's what I've been looking http://campuslifeservices.ucsf.edu/housing/

 

[dpmd]

I did not say it was the same, I said it was much of the same, in contrast to the Bay Area. I'm my opinion (emphasis on my opinion) you have access to more diverse range of terrain from the Bay Area compared to LA in a 2-3 hours radius.

Gauging traffic is a very subjective thing but overall I think Bay Area traffic is easier to navigate, and more predictable than LA. Now you can clearly pick and choose various areas within each metropolis and make a case that one is worse than the other (405N, 5S in LA or as you noted 80W in SF, 237W silicon valley). However, I think as a whole LA traffic is worse than Bay Area traffic. Additionally, BART is far more useful than any form of public transportation within LA. Anytime I commute into SF I take Bart and it actually gets me near, or to, where I need to be.

If you'd like some data to back that up look here http://www.inrix.com/scorecard/

And for the record, I'm not originally from CA, and have lived throughout the world, so I likely have less of a hometown bias than most people. I get the feeling you're from the LA area...

Actually, lived all over California (longest I lived in one place was 7 yrs until I got to where I am at now-central california, so my LA experience was during med school and my bay area experience was last two years of high school and college). I certainly wouldn't go live in either area now unless I had to but it isn't like one place is awful and the other is awesome. They both have issues, I just feel like USC was the right fit for me and might be the right fit for the OP based on what he or she has asked about.

 

[DirkN]

Both schools are prestigious (although UCSF is known by most everyone as one of the very best schools in the country). Since prestige isn't as important to you, though, you should go to where you'll feel the most comfortable. Both schools will take you wherever you want in life!

 

[peanutsss]

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[dpmd]

Again, you seem to be extrapolating my statements to things I did not say. If you notice I said absolutely nothing about USC, because I do not know enough about USC to comment. I said UCSF will likely provide better academic environment, and based on current rankings, that's hard to dispute. I did not say LA is awful and SF is awesome. The majority of my post was about outdoor activities, if I was wrong and OP doesn't like the outdoors that much then my post doesn't matter at all. USC might be an excellent fit for OP, but I don't know enough to make that judgment, so I stuck to what I know outdoors activities. The rest about traffic was at your prompting.


Edit: I didn't even read your original post until now, so hopefully you didn't take it as some sort of rebuttal to what you said. Different people, different opinions.

I meant it more that i don't think of SF as awful despite my post talking about the good stuff in LA. In case your comment about bias was because you thought it came off that way.

 

[dpmd]

Also, the op asked about the clinical training which is different than the academic environment. If you are the kind of student that does better with the focus on academics then UCSF and similar places are the way to go, but if your learning style is more hands on then there are better options (same goes for residency).

 

[dhb10]

I went to USC and absolutely loved it.

Thanks so much dpmd! You make a very compelling case for USC. I'm glad you enjoyed your experience and like that you were able to spend a lot of time with Latino patients and feel like the clinical experience at the LAC is unparalleled.

Thanks everyone else for their input as well! Seems like most people are pretty pro-UCSF. Let me know if there is anything else I should consider.