Ugh….

Started by sevoflurane
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sevoflurane

sevoflurane

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Lately I’ve been seeing medical students with PA students on the same rotation, competing for surgical cases. As though they are interchangeable. Ticks me off. Feel bad for the medical students. Shame on those in power that are creating this environment. If I was a surgeon, I would work with a medical student every single time.
 
Lecithin5 said:
Lately I’ve been seeing medical students with PA students on the same rotation, competing for surgical cases. As though they are interchangeable. Ticks me off. Feel bad for the medical students. Shame on those in power that are creating this environment. If I was a surgeon, I would work with a medical student every single time.
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I don’t work w/pa’s.
They know better than to ask when I have Med Studs or AA’s to choose from.
 
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that is such a terrible chart that nobody with a straight face could come up with it. I mean sure, the first day PA student is just as good as the 4th year medical student. 🙄
 
Mman said:
that is such a terrible chart that nobody with a straight face could come up with it. I mean sure, the first day PA student is just as good as the 4th year medical student. 🙄
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Well, it is from Mayo after all 😆
 
In defense of the tone deaf clown who made that chart, the whole RIME hierarchy is a just a framework for writing evals of trainees. That's where its usefulness starts and ends. It would work for apprentice plumbers too. I would expect a new NP grad to be able to "manage" the kind of things NPs are entrusted to manage.
 
Lecithin5 said:
Lately I’ve been seeing medical students with PA students on the same rotation, competing for surgical cases. As though they are interchangeable. Ticks me off. Feel bad for the medical students. Shame on those in power that are creating this environment. If I was a surgeon, I would work with a medical student every single time.
Click to expand...

On the flip side, in private practice, the surgical PA is arguably the most valuable provider to a surgeon, sometimes more so than their own partners. The PA sees the patients at all stages of their visit, often writes the initial preop/consult, takes consults and sees patients in the ER, first- assists in surgery, rounds on them in the hospital, writes the preoperative orders, writes the floor orders, writes the progress notes, writes discharge summary, sees them back for the followup, takes the nighttime calls from floor RN's, takes the patient's calls - in essence makes the surgeon's life inordinately better, not to mention helps them make money. I've seen surgical practices boot associates or partners sooner than they'd give up on their PA.

Edit: not to say I don't think that graphic is ridiculous
 
Velefunt said:
On the flip side, in private practice, the surgical PA is arguably the most valuable provider to a surgeon, sometimes more so than their own partners. The PA sees the patients at all stages of their visit, often writes the initial preop/consult, takes consults and sees patients in the ER, first- assists in surgery, rounds on them in the hospital, writes the preoperative orders, writes the floor orders, writes the progress notes, writes discharge summary, sees them back for the followup, takes the nighttime calls from floor RN's, takes the patient's calls - in essence makes the surgeon's life inordinately better, not to mention helps them make money. I've seen surgical practices boot associates or partners sooner than they'd give up on their PA.

Edit: not to say I don't think that graphic is ridiculous
Click to expand...

Surgeons make money when they are operating...thats it. Even the new referrals...yeah they can see the PA. Medicare 90day follow up - no billing for that...see the PA.
 
Velefunt said:
On the flip side, in private practice, the surgical PA is arguably the most valuable provider to a surgeon, sometimes more so than their own partners. The PA sees the patients at all stages of their visit, often writes the initial preop/consult, takes consults and sees patients in the ER, first- assists in surgery, rounds on them in the hospital, writes the preoperative orders, writes the floor orders, writes the progress notes, writes discharge summary, sees them back for the followup, takes the nighttime calls from floor RN's, takes the patient's calls - in essence makes the surgeon's life inordinately better, not to mention helps them make money. I've seen surgical practices boot associates or partners sooner than they'd give up on their PA.

Edit: not to say I don't think that graphic is ridiculous
Click to expand...
No doubt about anything you just said. But medical students are there to learn on surgical rotations, and they should take absolute priority over PA students. They shouldn’t be interchangeable and seen as equivalents (analogy: anesthesia residents and scrnas). And frankly they shouldn’t be on the same rotation together (again, the scrna/resident analogy). I mean zero disrespect to PA students (I’ve got PAs in my own family!)
 
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what I read is :

Here at the Mayo clinic we are proud educators of the best future M.D.s but...
If you don't have the grades, aptitude, work ethic or heck even want to put in the time (one can't always be burdened with learning all those pesky facts) get a nursing degree or physician assistant degree. That plus some unregulated timeline of "experience" then bam you are an equal! LOOK WE HAVE A CHART! Now we are getting questions like: What about the M.D. with experience are they still equal? Well, we feel that is an unfair question, don't you?

The Mayo clinic- Not great but still pretty good
 
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