Uh oh....

[Revolver]

Something just occurred to me as I was reading this site and everyone's GPAs.....

Right now I'm 23 taking courses at CC college and doing fairly well (3.2 GPA but ill raise that).

But... when I was 18, I got accepted to a university out of HS (which my parents forced me into).. took four classes, and 3/4 of the way through I quit school and moved away from home, giving me F's in all four classes.

Question is, is that five year old episode permanently with me? Is there a way to hide this info from the med schools so they only see my transcript from my CC and on?

I'm scared...

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[tacrum43]

Something just occurred to me as I was reading this site and everyone's GPAs.....

Right now I'm 23 taking courses at CC college and doing fairly well (3.2 GPA but ill raise that).

But... when I was 18, I got accepted to a university out of HS (which my parents forced me into).. took four classes, and 3/4 of the way through I quit school and moved away from home, giving me F's in all four classes.

Question is, is that five year old episode permanently with me? Is there a way to hide this info from the med schools so they only see my transcript from my CC and on?

I'm scared...

Yeah, you're going to have to include those.

 

[MahlerROCKS]

Something just occurred to me as I was reading this site and everyone's GPAs.....

Right now I'm 23 taking courses at CC college and doing fairly well (3.2 GPA but ill raise that).

But... when I was 18, I got accepted to a university out of HS (which my parents forced me into).. took four classes, and 3/4 of the way through I quit school and moved away from home, giving me F's in all four classes.

Question is, is that five year old episode permanently with me? Is there a way to hide this info from the med schools so they only see my transcript from my CC and on?

I'm scared...

Not to burst your bubble, but if you can only get a 3.2 at a cc, I wouldn't bank on being able to raise your gpa

 

[Revolver]

Yeah, you're going to have to include those.

Why? How can they possibly know or find out? Can't we just pretend it never happened...

 

[liverotcod]

Nope.

 

[Revolver]

Nope.

Can you elaborate please? By the time I apply to med school, seven years will have passed, and I thought it's a clean break at that point. When I send them my transcripts from CC, it will just show my GPA from there.

Do they do a background check or something to see if the student "secretly" took classes at another institution? Is all this crap recorded to your social security number, much like a criminal record?

 

[bbas]

Can you elaborate please? By the time I apply to med school, seven years will have passed, and I thought it's a clean break at that point. When I send them my transcripts from CC, it will just show my GPA from there.

Do they do a background check or something to see if the student "secretly" took classes at another institution? Is all this crap recorded to your social security number, much like a criminal record?

Many (most?) schools do not accept prereq's from community college. I would check into that before you go any further.

 

[BradenDO]

Can you elaborate please? By the time I apply to med school, seven years will have passed, and I thought it's a clean break at that point. When I send them my transcripts from CC, it will just show my GPA from there.

Do they do a background check or something to see if the student "secretly" took classes at another institution? Is all this crap recorded to your social security number, much like a criminal record?

I'm not sure what procedures they have to look into someone's school history, but if you were to get accepted without providing them all of your transcripts, you'll get your acceptance revoked. Sorry, bud.

 

[MollyMalone]

Many (most?) schools do not accept prereq's from community college. I would check into that before you go any further.

Actually, it's pretty few. But there are a couple.

 

[ShyRem]

I had an entire semester of F's from TWENTY years ago. Yes, 20. I still had to include them, they still counted into my amcas GPA, and they still kept me from getting some screened secondaries. Doesn't matter than I took 21 credits a semester these past three years and got 3.8-3.9 most semesters (the one I had mono really killed that streak). Doesn't matter I graduated with a 3.5-3.6 GPA with a dual science major in 3 years. Your old mistakes will haunt you. Forever. They can, however, be overcome with hard work and a kick-ass PS.

 

[kdburton]

Can you elaborate please? By the time I apply to med school, seven years will have passed, and I thought it's a clean break at that point. When I send them my transcripts from CC, it will just show my GPA from there.

Do they do a background check or something to see if the student "secretly" took classes at another institution? Is all this crap recorded to your social security number, much like a criminal record?

If you filled out the FAFSA or any other sort of federal financial aid applications they will be able to look it up. Otherwise they probably won't be able to. I have a friend who bailed out of a University after 3 years of partying which landed him a really crappy GPA. He took a couple years off, got his head on straight and applied to a different University without transferring any of his credits - on purpose of course. Hes now a 4.0 honors student just about to start his Sr year and is looking into applying to some PhD programs.

 

[Revolver]

If you filled out the FAFSA or any other sort of federal financial aid applications they will be able to look it up. Otherwise they probably won't be able to. I have a friend who bailed out of a University after 3 years of partying which landed him a really crappy GPA. He took a couple years off, got his head on straight and applied to a different University without transferring any of his credits - on purpose of course. Hes now a 4.0 honors student just about to start his Sr year and is looking into applying to some PhD programs.

Unfortunatley I filled out a FAFSA and got a student loan for that first year

The question is, WILL they look it up?

 

[MollyMalone]

Unfortunatley I filled out a FAFSA and got a student loan for that first year

The question is, WILL they look it up?

No, the proper question is, do you want to risk it?

If you lie and get caught, there's no way in hell you're getting in.

If you tell the truth, you may or may not get in.

If you lie and don't get caught, there's still no guarantee that you'll get in. Plus you'll worry about it every single day.

 

[tifa]

Many (most?) schools do not accept prereq's from community college. I would check into that before you go any further.

absolutely not true.

 

[Law2Doc]

Do they do a background check or something to see if the student "secretly" took classes at another institution?

What they can and cannot find out is hard to say. Certainly before you are given a license and permitted to prescribe drugs, a more complete background check will be done, and so this could certainly come up later. But at a minimum, when you submit AMCAS, you are averring that you have provided all information about colleges and universities you attended, and to not do so would constitute a form of fraud (like lying on a job application). While a school may not ever know, if they do find out the punishment could be severe (withdrawal of acceptance, expulsion, denial of a license). So list the bad grades and you will need to come up with a decent explanation. A bigger problem for you, as others have suggested, is that, even ignoring the prior academic blemishes, a 3.2 from a CC isn't that strong -- there may be some postbac studies in your future. Good luck.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

That's the bad thing about academics, no forgiveness, ever. Even criminals have statute of limitations anywhere from 2-20 years or people who stick-it to creditors with bankruptcy only are punished for 7-10 years, but your academic record lasts your entire lifetime. It's not fair, but you have to suck it up and press ahead towards your dreams.

I know how you feel man, I got C's in Physics in 1989-1990 (16-17 years ago) and C's and W's at other times that will be there no matter what I do. It's a struggle to improve your GPA, I'll never get over 3.4 no matter what I do. The Adcoms will take things into perspective and will look for recent improvement if you are getting a string of 4.0 grades, but some won't if they just simply pre-screen applicants by computer.

 

[Law2Doc]

That's the bad thing about academics, no forgiveness, ever. Even criminals have statute of limitations anywhere from 2-20 years or people who stick-it to creditors with bankruptcy only are punished for 7-10 years, but your academic record lasts your entire lifetime.

Foregiveness is not as complete in these other areas. If you were a criminal more than the 2-20 years ago it could definitely hinder admissions to medical school. And a bankruptcy more than 7-10+ years ago could make getting financial aid difficult. It just doesn't come up much as there aren't that many formerly bankrupt criminal nontrads in the application pool.
Perhaps for diversity there should be a few.

 

[JohnnyOU]

Why? How can they possibly know or find out? Can't we just pretend it never happened...

Just erase them with a #2 pencil from your transcripts and write N/A over it. If anyone asks about it just say "I dunno."

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Unfortunatley I filled out a FAFSA and got a student loan for that first year

The question is, WILL they look it up?

whether they do or not, IT IS NOT WORTH IT!! People have been known to be throw out of med schools even in their last year when it was found that they lied on their app. Do you want that hanging over your head thru med school? med school is stressful enough without having to worry about if you get caught. Also why invest time and money into a program you may not be able to finish?

 

[vtucci]

As has been already said, don't try it. Lying can get you in really hot water and do you really want to be one month from graduating medical school and get kicked out for an academic honesty violation because that is what it is.

Have a little faith. You are not the only one in this situation. Many of us have had a less than stellar record prior to applying but did some post-bac or other work. My own experience is not nearly as bad as what you were talking about but I had a C- from a freshman chem class 11 years before I applied and yup, it still went on the AMCAS. I was asked about it by a couple of interviewers so be prepared to explain it.

I would also contact your old school and see if there is a way to erase these grades-- i.e., can you retake the classes, finish the incompletes or have some way to denote on the transcript that you withdrew from the school and that this is the school's policy?

Also, you really need to be concerned at the 3.2 at a Community College. That stat is hardly impressive in the med school application process. Many schools either officially won't take those as pre-reqs or (more commonly) look down on CC classes as much easier than their 4 year counterparts. You will need to slay the MCAT if you intend to put such issues to bed.

 

[McMD]

double post...oops!

 

[McMD]

That's the bad thing about academics, no forgiveness, ever. Even criminals have statute of limitations anywhere from 2-20 years or people who stick-it to creditors with bankruptcy only are punished for 7-10 years, but your academic record lasts your entire lifetime. It's not fair, but you have to suck it up and press ahead towards your dreams.

I know how you feel man, I got C's in Physics in 1989-1990 (16-17 years ago) and C's and W's at other times that will be there no matter what I do. It's a struggle to improve your GPA, I'll never get over 3.4 no matter what I do. The Adcoms will take things into perspective and will look for recent improvement if you are getting a string of 4.0 grades, but some won't if they just simply pre-screen applicants by computer.

Actually...somehow (don't know how), my uncle got his first 2 years of college dropped after 20 years. He had completed the first 2 years when he was 18, surfed, partied, and flunked school and then 20 years later when he wanted to actually do his degree, the admitting college forgave him of his F's and completely erased them from his record. I don't know how he managed to get that done...sorry, otherwise I would give the above poster with F's from 20 years ago his secrets.

 

[McMD]

As has been already said, don't try it. Lying can get you in really hot water and do you really want to be one month from graduating medical school and get kicked out for an academic honesty violation because that is what it is.

Have a little faith. You are not the only one in this situation. Many of us have had a less than stellar record prior to applying but did some post-bac or other work. My own experience is not nearly as bad as what you were talking about but I had a C- from a freshman chem class 11 years before I applied and yup, it still went on the AMCAS. I was asked about it by a couple of interviewers so be prepared to explain it.

I would also contact your old school and see if there is a way to erase these grades-- i.e., can you retake the classes, finish the incompletes or have some way to denote on the transcript that you withdrew from the school and that this is the school's policy?

Also, you really need to be concerned at the 3.2 at a Community College. That stat is hardly impressive in the med school application process. Many schools either officially won't take those as pre-reqs or (more commonly) look down on CC classes as much easier than their 4 year counterparts. You will need to slay the MCAT if you intend to put such issues to bed.

I agree with every thing vtucci has posted...great advice!!

 

[S_Talos]

I had a very similar situation in my first semester, had four Fs. I was very stupid to do that, but explained it and also explained how I've worked hard to make up for that on AMCAS (I had a 3.4 GPA including those grades). I really only applied to two in state schools this year and got interviewed where I wanted to go and also got a waitlist there. They told us that we wouldn't have been interviewed if they thought we didn't have the credentials and capability for medical school there. I don't think my waitlist was due to those grades but more likely was my late application, so no I don't think that the grades will hold me or you back.

While you have to overcome your mistakes in the past, you do need to disclose these grades, better to own up to what you've done than to make another big mistake by lying about it. If you really want to do medicine, that first semester won't hurt you, but if you hold out on that transcript it may haunt you.

 

[S_Talos]

Actually...somehow (don't know how), my uncle got his first 2 years of college dropped after 20 years. He had completed the first 2 years when he was 18, surfed, partied, and flunked school and then 20 years later when he wanted to actually do his degree, the admitting college forgave him of his F's and completely erased them from his record. I don't know how he managed to get that done...sorry, otherwise I would give the above poster with F's from 20 years ago his secrets.

Some colleges (at least mine) have academic forgiveness after about 5 years if you have taken no classes in that time. I don't think it will be erased from your transcript, but it will not count toward your GPA at the school. However, AAMC will want to know what you made even 20 years go as you need to give transcripts from any college you've attended.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Something just occurred to me as I was reading this site and everyone's GPAs.....

Right now I'm 23 taking courses at CC college and doing fairly well (3.2 GPA but ill raise that).

But... when I was 18, I got accepted to a university out of HS (which my parents forced me into).. took four classes, and 3/4 of the way through I quit school and moved away from home, giving me F's in all four classes.

Question is, is that five year old episode permanently with me? Is there a way to hide this info from the med schools so they only see my transcript from my CC and on?

I'm scared...

You MUST retake all D's & F's.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

So are people saying the only thing acceptable from a CC is an A???

 

[Depakote]

So are people saying the only thing acceptable from a CC is an A???

If you want to get into med school. Yes, I'll say that.

EDIT: I recommend taking CC courses as a last resort only.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

If you want to get into med school. Yes, I'll say that.

EDIT: I recommend taking CC courses as a last resort only.

it's not for me; I'm in med school already, but my gf isd taking physics 2 and chem 2 this summer at a CC. why should she have to pay the high cost of attending a university or even room and board some place if she can't afford it? Not all CCs are garbage.

 

[OSUdoc08]

If you want to get into med school. Yes, I'll say that.

EDIT: I recommend taking CC courses as a last resort only.

Incorrect.

 

[OSUdoc08]

So are people saying the only thing acceptable from a CC is an A???

The only thing acceptable is a B.

Obviously A's are preferable.

 

[tifa]

If you want to get into med school. Yes, I'll say that.

EDIT: I recommend taking CC courses as a last resort only.

Very incorrect. There is nothing wrong with CC courses. I don't understand the negative hype against them. I can only speak of my own experience though...I was told by so many people that my chances were shot because I took most of my pre-med stuff at a CC. The year AFTER I graduated from a 4 year school, because I hadn't finished my pre-reqs I went to a CC. I wasn't about to spend all that money at a 4 year institution. NO school that I applied to last year, as far as I know, downgraded my application because my bio, chem and physics came from a community college. As long as you excel, which is the case no matter where you go, you'll be fine.

 

[deleted102545]

I say better safe than sorry. The odds of schools looking or finding anything are probably low but the fact that they can even do it should discourage one enough to not hide any academic records.

The last thing you would want is that to bite you in the ass in the future because the consequences will be quite major.

 

[iiiimonica]

i had a situation similair to yours at a state school, i had one horrible semster, stupidly did not withdrawl and ended up with 5 F's. i wanted to go back to college and i made an appointment with a counsoler. he advised me to retro withdrawl the semester. i had no idea you could even do this! but becuase he saw my grade trends and i could prove that there was a reason for the crash (my grandma had died, i had to provide a death certificate) i was able to withdrawl the semster retroactively- 5 years had passed.

maybe if you met with a couselor from your old school they would have a similar suggestion for you, i later found out from a community college that they also let you "withdrawl" from 12 units. (but luckily i never needed to do this!)

i am not a premed, so i don't know how withdrawls look to med schools, but it's gotta be better then F's! and you can explain how at 18 you were not ready for college, blah blah

 

[McMD]

Some colleges (at least mine) have academic forgiveness after about 5 years if you have taken no classes in that time. I don't think it will be erased from your transcript, but it will not count toward your GPA at the school. However, AAMC will want to know what you made even 20 years go as you need to give transcripts from any college you've attended.

Yes, I did forgiveness for one of my grades freshman year and it didn't count against me in my school gpa, but in AMCAS it did. Oh well, I still had a stellar gpa including that grade...you just have to work hard to make up for those grades.

 

[Revolver]

i had a situation similair to yours at a state school, i had one horrible semster, stupidly did not withdrawl and ended up with 5 F's. i wanted to go back to college and i made an appointment with a counsoler. he advised me to retro withdrawl the semester. i had no idea you could even do this! but becuase he saw my grade trends and i could prove that there was a reason for the crash (my grandma had died, i had to provide a death certificate) i was able to withdrawl the semster retroactively- 5 years had passed.

maybe if you met with a couselor from your old school they would have a similar suggestion for you, i later found out from a community college that they also let you "withdrawl" from 12 units. (but luckily i never needed to do this!)

i am not a premed, so i don't know how withdrawls look to med schools, but it's gotta be better then F's! and you can explain how at 18 you were not ready for college, blah blah

Thank you for telling this. I don't attend the same university that I got F's in; I'm in CC now. I've retaken two of the three courses already, Chem 1 and English 1 and got B's in both of them (due to absences bc of my full time job).

I'll definitley check on some sort of a forgiveness policy at my old school.

 

[WatchingWaiting]

Some pre-meds are really throwing around the B.S. here about what a background check entails. It's a criminal background check, not sending a request to every US college to see if you ever attended to check the veracity of your med school app. The only way these kinds of things get detected is when this guys tells someone else (llike a fellow pre-med), he misrepresented his past academic career on his AMCAS app and that someone else doesn't like him and reports him to AAMC. In any case, if original poster wants to pursue this path (and it is unethical), he will need to forget those classes ever occurred and not yap with others about how he misrepresented himself on his AMCAS app. You'd also want to pull up your official transcript, because they do sometimes mention past schools attended.

That being said, a 3.2 is not going to get you into med school. It really doesn't matter whether it is coming out of a community college or a 4 year school, it's not going to do it. Average accepted student GPA is more like a 3.5-3.6 from a 4-year school. Coming out of a community college, you'd really expect to see more like a 3.7-3.8 or higher.

 

[iiiimonica]

no problem

i hope it helps you out! also i never went back to SFSU. i decided to get most of my pre req's (optometry) done at community college and i planned to transfer back to SFSU...but after kicking some major *** in my science courses at cc, i was able to transfered to UC Berkeley.

 

[premedicated]

The only thing acceptable is a B.

Obviously A's are preferable.

And those two C's in English........

CC classes are fine as long as you don't trans. back and forth for certain classes in a desperate attempt to raise your GPA. Just try to do well in the remainder of your classes. And check into the adjustment of the F's to W's.

 

[deleted102545]

Some pre-meds are really throwing around the B.S. here about what a background check entails. It's a criminal background check, not sending a request to every US college to see if you ever attended to check the veracity of your med school app. The only way these kinds of things get detected is when this guys tells someone else (llike a fellow pre-med), he misrepresented his past academic career on his AMCAS app and that someone else doesn't like him and reports him to AAMC. In any case, if original poster wants to pursue this path (and it is unethical), he will need to forget those classes ever occurred and not yap with others about how he misrepresented himself on his AMCAS app. You'd also want to pull up your official transcript, because they do sometimes mention past schools attended.

How can you be so sure? I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, I'm genuinely curious. Isn't everything you do recorded in some government document?

 

[nao14790]

How can you be so sure? I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, I'm genuinely curious. Isn't everything you do recorded in some government document?

me to.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

The only thing acceptable is a B.

Obviously A's are preferable.

then why were people shooting down a 3.2 which is a combination of As and Bs. I agree As are better but are Bs at a CC so much worse than a B anywhere else?

 

[Nasrudin]

How can you be so sure? I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, I'm genuinely curious. Isn't everything you do recorded in some government document?

What you should intead be curious about is how you will feel about yourself to pull off this kind of deceit....forget the persistent looking over your shoulder. I'm not being a moral supperioritist i am simply stating that we rarely give thought to the psychological damage we give to ourselves in the breakneck pursuit of "success."

 

[OSUdoc08]

then why were people shooting down a 3.2 which is a combination of As and Bs. I agree As are better but are Bs at a CC so much worse than a B anywhere else?

I was told by the admissions committee that the B that I recieved at McLennan Community College would have been equivalent to a C at Baylor University.

 

[Mister Pie]

Does anybody know if they take grades from classes I took when I was in Jr High? I vaguely remember taking algebra and some computer class at some CC back before I entered high school. This can't possibly be relevant... can it?

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Does anybody know if they take grades from classes I took when I was in Jr High? I vaguely remember taking algebra and some computer class at some CC back before I entered high school. This can't possibly be relevant... can it?

Yep; ALL college credit must be included, no matter when or where you took it, good or bad.

 

[NonTradMed]

Try to retro withdrawls. Show you've retaken your stuff and you've improved. You may still be questioned about your withdrawls but such is life. As my mom loves to tell me: your academic record follows with you your entire life so don't screw with it!

My adivce is to do better now. A 3.2 at CC (or most four year colleges) probably isn't good enough for med school. Aim for a 3.5 by the time your graduate from college and show an upward trend. You'll also need to kill the MCAT since you started out on such shaky academic ground. I suggest trying to turn those F's into W's and then write about that in your PS (you were immature etc). Good luck.

 

[TypeA]

Why? How can they possibly know or find out? Can't we just pretend it never happened...

Not an option...if you did and they found out it is grounds for dismissal at any point. I recently found out that it is grounds for far worse even after graduation.

 

[NonTradMed]

Not an option...if you did and they found out it is grounds for dismissal at any point. I recently found out that it is grounds for far worse even after graduation.

I'm curious, if they found out after graduation, what do they do to you? Do they recind your degree at that point...?

 

[group_theory]

If it can be shown that admission was based on a fraud ... and that the person would not otherwise have been admitted ... the school can indeed revoke your degree. There is no statue of limitation involved unless specifically stated in either the school's rules or state law.

It usually involves some sort of due process within the university system, as governed by their by-laws and whatever governing documents the institution have set up.

Once they revoke your degree, you are no longer a graduate of an accredited medical school. As a result, you are no longer eligible to hold a permanent medical license (or have a DEA number, or be a medicare provider, etc)


This next section is copied from a website - http://www.uah.edu/legal/pdf_files/a_matter_of_degree.pdf

It is well established that a university has the inherent authority to revoke a degree upon good cause, such as for fraud, academic misconduct, etc. Crook v. Baker, 813 F.2d 88 (6th Cir. 1987); Waliga v. Board of Trustees, 488 N.E.2d 850 (1986); Abalkhail v. Claremont University Center, 2d Civ. No.B014012 (Cal. Ct. App. 1986). The power to revoke resides in the entity that has the power to award the degree. See Hand v. Matchell, 957 F.2d 791 (10th Cir. 1992). For most institutions, this is the governing board. The institution may act to revoke a degree using its own internal procedures, as opposed to having to go to court to obtain a judgment or order divesting the degree recipient of the degree. Crook v. Baker, 813 F.2d at 84-85, 86-87; Waliga v. Board ofTrustees, 488 N.E.2d at 850-52.