Uh oh...

[LuciusVorenus]

.http://www.projo.com/opinion/contributors/content/CT_kidney20_01-20-08_E58ELIO_v12.2b10e74.html.
. .
.FTA: "When I entered medical school, in 2003, the list of those waiting [for organ transplant] contained 58,000 names. Now, that number is about 74,000 [...] Yet in this instance, the answer is obvious. It’s sitting right under our adrenal glands. Last year, more than 42,000 individuals applied to American medical schools. These aspiring physicians sat for Medical College Admission Tests to display their scientific knowledge and endured organic-chemistry labs to prove their stamina. They amassed faculty and employer references as testament to their interpersonal skills and their integrity. Nearly all attended face-to-face interviews, establishing their capacity to appear spiffy — or, at least, presentable — in tailored suits. But relatively few had a chance to demonstrate the sort of compassion and selflessness that most patients would want in a physician. Requiring all medical-school applicants to donate a kidney as a pre-requisite for admission would offer precisely such an opportunity.".
. .
.lolwut?.

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[Hoody]

screw donating....we need to start gowning them in labs already.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

screw donating....we need to start gowning them in labs already.

I wonder how many people would actually do it
POLL TIME!

 

[Hoody]

If it guaranteed me a spot to a sick MD/PhD program, I would!



...then I could grow my own in a lab.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Haha
sorry for the error in the question

 

[Hoody]

I voted no btw.

 

[caniac]

I thought that organ donation went against certain religious beliefs (specifically thinking of Judaism here). Is it "right" to require those applying to medical school to donate organs even if it goes against their religion? Wouldn't doing so, in effect, prohibit those individuals that practice those religions from becoming doctors?

Seems a little...well not racist, but that's the only word coming to mind at the moment.

 

[Seraph 84]

I'm a gunner, so I'll donate a lung AND a kidney

 

[vickpick]

hell no, then, what if i can an infection or something, and my only kidney is not strong enuf to handle the lol? i'll be screwed! why not just do more stem cell research and grow them in the lab?

 

[RapplixGmed]

This is pretty ridiculous. Having it as a requirement removes all selflessness from the equation. The whole point is to do it voluntarily.

I'm registered as an organ donor but I would never donate an organ to somebody I don't know until I'm dead, in which case they can do whatever they want to me other than feed me to the pigs. The reason being is that I want to be the judge of whether my organs are being put to good use and who to give it to, not some arcane system.

While we are on the topic of organ donation, everybody should read "Never Let Me Go" by Kazuo Ishiguro. This work of fiction is one of the most moving books I've ever read and strikes at the heart of a related ethical issue.

 

[Chemdude]

Is every Kidney donatable? Don't they have to make sure that their is a match between the donor and recipient?

Anyway, this Idea is ridiculously stupid. You can't force someone to donate their kidney...

 

[DrYoda]

Is every Kidney donatable? Don't they have to make sure that their is a match between the donor and recipient?

Anyway, this Idea is ridiculously stupid. You can't force someone to donate their kidney...

They'll just stick it in a freezer.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

I thought that organ donation went against certain religious beliefs (specifically thinking of Judaism here). Is it "right" to require those applying to medical school to donate organs even if it goes against their religion? Wouldn't doing so, in effect, prohibit those individuals that practice those religions from becoming doctors?

Seems a little...well not racist, but that's the only word coming to mind at the moment.

Most religions endorse organ donation, see here. Judaism certainly endorses living kidney donation, although some Orthodox Jewish groups oppose organ donation from cadavers.

As for the original article, it's absurd. My favorite part is that they expect the donations to come from all applicants, include the 60% who won't end up being accepted in any given cycle. Also, kidney donation entails major surgery and carries about a 3 in 10,000 mortality rate along with significant morbidity. The author is apparently unconcerned with the prospects of killing 12 pre-meds per year with his little altruism test.

 

[boaz]

Hey guys, lighten up! The OP's idea is obviously a hypothetical one, so practical/moral considerations need not be taken into account.

 

[boaz]

As for the author of the original article, you'll notice he's a lawyer. In law any logic goes as long as you write eloquently!

 

[DrReo]

.http://www.projo.com/opinion/contributors/content/CT_kidney20_01-20-08_E58ELIO_v12.2b10e74.html.

.FTA: "When I entered medical school, in 2003, the list of those waiting [for organ transplant] contained 58,000 names. Now, that number is about 74,000 [...] Yet in this instance, the answer is obvious. It’s sitting right under our adrenal glands. Last year, more than 42,000 individuals applied to American medical schools. These aspiring physicians sat for Medical College Admission Tests to display their scientific knowledge and endured organic-chemistry labs to prove their stamina. They amassed faculty and employer references as testament to their interpersonal skills and their integrity. Nearly all attended face-to-face interviews, establishing their capacity to appear spiffy — or, at least, presentable — in tailored suits. But relatively few had a chance to demonstrate the sort of compassion and selflessness that most patients would want in a physician. Requiring all medical-school applicants to donate a kidney as a pre-requisite for admission would offer precisely such an opportunity.".

.lolwut?.

Sounds like a fruitful liberal plan.

"A fair system would certainly permit limited and well-regulated exceptions for students with major medical problems of their own" --> Discrimination

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Hey guys, lighten up! The OP's idea is obviously a hypothetical one, so practical/moral considerations need not be taken into account.

The author of the article seems pretty serious.

 

[Chemdude]

Sounds like a fruitful liberal plan.

"A fair system would certainly permit limited and well-regulated exceptions for students with major medical problems of their own" --> Discrimination

LOL! What does this have to do with being liberal? In fact, it's anti-liberal; liberalism's foundations are based on the sacredness of individual freedom. Forcing someone to donate their kidney is an extreme breach of individual freedom.

Sounds like you have been listening to too much Rush Limbaugh...

 

[SteinUmStein]

Why would this make sense to impose this on just pre-meds? What about nurses, pharmacists, dentists? And since we're talking about public service, why not politicians? We'd have fewer governors running to mistresses in Argentina if political office mandated an organ donation as "proof" of selfless service to the public.

 

[jonessoda]

I know you can function with one kidney, but doesn't it cut some time off your life expectancy? That would reduce the amount of time a doctor could spend saving others' lives, perhaps dooming hundreds, in exchange for lengthening one life.

 

[SirGecko]

screw donating....we need to start gowning them in labs already.

If only we weren't decades away from being able to grow viable organs. (some tissues are pretty close though, it's exciting stuff)

Oh and while I wouldn't advocate something as big as donating a kidney to someone that you didn't know there are other ways to really help out. For example people should look into enrolling in a bone marrow donation registry. You can really help someone and it isn't permanently damaging to you.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

I'm registered as an organ donor but I would never donate an organ to somebody I don't know until I'm dead, in which case they can do whatever they want to me other than feed me to the pigs. The reason being is that I want to be the judge of whether my organs are being put to good use and who to give it to, not some arcane system.

Seriously. I'm not donating a kidney until the day someone I know/love needs one. When I'm dead...whatever

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Is every Kidney donatable? Don't they have to make sure that their is a match between the donor and recipient?

Anyway, this Idea is ridiculously stupid. You can't force someone to donate their kidney...

The thing I find most disturbing about this is that HE went to medical school...so why doesn't HE donate one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_M._Appel

Here's more on him by the way

 

[DrReo]

LOL! What does this have to do with being liberal? In fact, it's anti-liberal; liberalism's foundations are based on the sacredness of individual freedom. Forcing someone to donate their kidney is an extreme breach of individual freedom.

Sounds like you have been listening to too much Rush Limbaugh...

regulation, regulation, regulation....

 

[FeralisExtremum]

The thing I find most disturbing about this is that HE went to medical school...so why doesn't HE donate one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_M._Appel

Here's more on him by the way

Anyone else check out that guy's credentials?

"B.A. and an A.M., both from Brown University; an M.A. and an M.Phil from Columbia University; an M.D. from Columbia University's College of Physicians and Surgeons, an M.F.A. in creative writing from New York University, and a J.D. from Harvard Law School"

It's like he's collecting degrees...

 

[traumasurg]

Anyone else check out that guy's credentials?

"B.A. and an A.M., both from Brown University; an M.A. and an M.Phil from Columbia University; an M.D. from Columbia University's College of Physicians and Surgeons, an M.F.A. in creative writing from New York University, and a J.D. from Harvard Law School"

It's like he's collecting degrees...

Wow. Talk about a lifelong learner.

 

[DrReo]

Anyone else check out that guy's credentials?

"B.A. and an A.M., both from Brown University; an M.A. and an M.Phil from Columbia University; an M.D. from Columbia University's College of Physicians and Surgeons, an M.F.A. in creative writing from New York University, and a J.D. from Harvard Law School"

It's like he's collecting degrees...

And those are not cheap institutions either... How would one afford that?

 

[KeyzerSoze]

LOL! What does this have to do with being liberal? In fact, it's anti-liberal; liberalism's foundations are based on the sacredness of individual freedom. Forcing someone to donate their kidney is an extreme breach of individual freedom.

Sounds like you have been listening to too much Rush Limbaugh...

Classic liberalism is indeed founded on the sanctity of individual rights. It has much more in common with modern day libertarianism than with the oppressive collectivism commonly known as liberalism nowadays.

 

[caniac]

haha I often wonder if people go on their own wiki pages and edit them. My physics prof made his own wikipedia page using his name spelled backwards...

 

[KeyzerSoze]

And those are not cheap institutions either... How would one afford that?

Let's just say it cost him an arm and a leg.

 

[phonyreal98]

In all seriousness, that is a terrible idea. First off, based on these poll results, you wouldn't be getting too many extra kidneys. Certainly not enough to cover the kidney waiting list. Second, the number of transplant surgeons would fall to numbers so low that even if there were enough kidneys to go around, there wouldn't be enough physicians to actually perform the transplants.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

I'd do it if you could waive tuition. The poll needs more options:

1. Totally.
2. Yes but only if I got free tuition and expenses paid.
3. Not if there was some other way to get in and keep my kidneys
4. Hells no. I make urine just fine and want to stay that way.

 

[caniac]

I'd do it if you could waive tuition. The poll needs more options:

1. Totally.
2. Yes but only if I got free tuition and expenses paid.
3. Not if there was some other way to get in and keep my kidneys
4. Hells no. I make urine just fine and want to stay that way.

if that wasn't the case, I doubt they'd let you donate that kidney

 

[P0tat0dude]

Anyone else check out that guy's credentials?

"B.A. and an A.M., both from Brown University; an M.A. and an M.Phil from Columbia University; an M.D. from Columbia University's College of Physicians and Surgeons, an M.F.A. in creative writing from New York University, and a J.D. from Harvard Law School"

It's like he's collecting degrees...

LOL, reminds me of Kanye West's "School Spirit" song:

"And you keep it going, man. You keep those books rolling. You pick up all those books that you're gonna read and not remember and you roll, man. You get that associate's degree, okay? Then you get your bachelor's. Then you get your master's. Then you get your master's master's. Then you get your doctorate. You go, man! And then, when everybody says to quit, you show them those degrees, man. When everyone says, 'Hey, you're not workin', you're not makin' any money,' you say, 'You look at my degrees. And you look at my life: yeah, I'm 52. So what? Hate all you want but I'm smart, I so smart. And I'm in school. These guys out here makin' money all these ways and I'm spendin' mine to be smart. You know why? Cause when I die, buddy, you know what's gonna keep me warm? That's right: those degrees."

 

[dw2158]

"And you keep it going, man. You keep those books rolling. You pick up all those books that you're gonna read and not remember and you roll, man. You get that associate's degree, okay? Then you get your bachelor's. Then you get your master's. Then you get your master's master's. Then you get your doctorate. You go, man! And then, when everybody says to quit, you show them those degrees, man. When everyone says, 'Hey, you're not workin', you're not makin' any money,' you say, 'You look at my degrees. And you look at my life: yeah, I'm 52. So what? Hate all you want but I'm smart, I so smart. And I'm in school. These guys out here makin' money all these ways and I'm spendin' mine to be smart. You know why? Cause when I die, buddy, you know what's gonna keep me warm? That's right: those degrees."

KANYE IS MY BOO

seriously i love him more than should be allowed

 

[bigbad]

I didn't see the link just what you posted. but that was satirical right?

What if those doctors got kidney failure and died? Hell no, if stuff like this actually went on I would lose all respect for the profession and probably go clean toilets.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Anyone else check out that guy's credentials?

"B.A. and an A.M., both from Brown University; an M.A. and an M.Phil from Columbia University; an M.D. from Columbia University's College of Physicians and Surgeons, an M.F.A. in creative writing from New York University, and a J.D. from Harvard Law School"

It's like he's collecting degrees...

I think he just started out as a bioethicist, then decided a writing degree would help him write, a JD would help him be more "reasonable" law wise, and an MD would give him more of a scientific background with bioethics. I mean I REALLY doubt he's going to actually do a residency and put that MD to use

 

[LuciusVorenus]

So if this poll is any indication of how the entire population would act (don't go crazy on me stats people) then basically anyone who applies to medical school would get in? Well...unless they close down a lot of them.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Let's just say it cost him an arm and a leg.

or a kidney

 

[muggle911]

I know you can function with one kidney, but doesn't it cut some time off your life expectancy? That would reduce the amount of time a doctor could spend saving others' lives, perhaps dooming hundreds, in exchange for lengthening one life.

No, one kidney does not reduce your life expectancy, unless you get into some freak accident that results in trauma to your remaining kidney.
If its any kind of kidney disease, it would affect both kidneys, so having an extra really doesn't give you any advantage. Just FYI.

 

[vickpick]

No, one kidney does not reduce your life expectancy, unless you get into some freak accident that results in trauma to your remaining kidney.
If its any kind of kidney disease, it would affect both kidneys, so having an extra really doesn't give you any advantage. Just FYI.

actually u r wrong abt the disease, even if the disease damages 90
% of both kidneys, that will still be btr than 10% of one. Just FYI...lol

 

[KeyzerSoze]

actually u r wrong abt the disease, even if the disease damages 90
% of both kidneys, that will still be btr than 10% of one. Just FYI...lol

Not quite sure what you're saying, but you're wrong, since muggle911 is correct.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

No, one kidney does not reduce your life expectancy, unless you get into some freak accident that results in trauma to your remaining kidney.
If its any kind of kidney disease, it would affect both kidneys, so having an extra really doesn't give you any advantage. Just FYI.

Can't cancer also affect only one of your kidneys? Or even an infection? We need a urology resident damnit!

 

[KeyzerSoze]

But...but what if trauma destroys my one remaining kidney

"Renal trauma is the most common urologic trauma and occurs in 8-10% of patients with significant blunt or penetrating abdominal trauma. In most cases, major renal injuries are associated with injuries to other major organs (Baverstock, 2001; Sagalowsky, 1983)."

Also (might be wrong) but can't cancer also affect only one of your kidneys? Or even an infection? We need a urology resident damnit!

That's true, but loss of a kidney due to trauma, malignancy, or infection is apparently uncommon enough that donors don't have significantly higher rates of kidney failure.

 

[monomania]

I take issue with the idea that you need to overtly demonstrate a trait (i.e. selflessness) to prove that you possess it. Madness.