UK Graduate Entry School

[tennisball80]

Is it common for a person with a B.S or B.A degree from the U.S and MCAT score to gain an acceptance from a U.K medical school ?

Thanks in advance for any comments.

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[Prolif]

It is possible yes, infact you probably wouldn't need the MCAT. You would just need the equivalent of an upper second class honors degree, ideally in a related subject like Biochemistry, Biomedicine, Chemistry, Physics etc.

As a side note, are you aware that you would have to pay full tuition fees as an international studying in the UK? As a rough guide this would be about £15,000 a year for 4 years plus a further £10,000 in living expenses. So your total bill could easily top £100,000 ($175,000). Loans of this amount would be categorically unobtainable in the UK as well. The highest bank loan you could get for this purpose would be about £20,000 and as a non-UK resident you would be unlikely to get even that much.

http://www.ukmedicalschools.com has a list of all 32 UK medical schools including the graduate medical schools. They have a lot more information you might find useful on stuff like finance and qualifcations needed. You would also need to sit some tests, mainly the UKCAT. This is a VERY basic test, its not like the MCAT. There is no science its just a basic reasoning test. The score doesnt even affect your application that much but its just a requirement that you must take it.

 

[bambi]

Some places do now ask for MCAT scores from US applicants.

Max bank loan is £25K from HSBC but as you aren't British you couldn't get it anyway, or probably any other loan in this country. I expect you could still get one at home though?

As for tuition, UK grads on our 4yr courses only pay 1 yr tuition, no idea if this would be the same for international students but you should obviously check.

Your best bet is to look at websites. Places with 4 yr courses are- Kings, Barts, St Georges, Imperial, Nottingham, Liverpool, Birmingham, Oxford, Newcastle, Bristol, Cambridge, Keele, Leicester, Warwick, Southampton and Swansea. Most will require UKCAT, some require GAMSAT which is a lot harder but not that bad.

 

[Prolif]

Some places do now ask for MCAT scores from US applicants.

Max bank loan is £25K from HSBC but as you aren't British you couldn't get it anyway, or probably any other loan in this country. I expect you could still get one at home though?

As for tuition, UK grads on our 4yr courses only pay 1 yr tuition, no idea if this would be the same for international students but you should obviously check.

Your best bet is to look at websites. Places with 4 yr courses are- Kings, Barts, St Georges, Imperial, Nottingham, Liverpool, Birmingham, Oxford, Newcastle, Bristol, Cambridge, Keele, Leicester, Warwick, Southampton and Swansea. Most will require UKCAT, some require GAMSAT which is a lot harder but not that bad.

4 year courses still require full tuition fees from internationals. The discount only applies to home students. I was wrong about the fees, they are about £23,000 per year + £10,000 in living expenses, so you'd need well over £100,000.

 

[jiggz16]

Correct me if I'm wrong, if there are no entrances exams such as the MCAT, I am assuming it is easier to get into.

 

[bambi]

Correct me if I'm wrong, if there are no entrances exams such as the MCAT, I am assuming it is easier to get into.

You are wrong.

Our grade requirements are higher. It's a bit different because most people go straight from school but for grads a 2.1 is the minimum (except at about 2 schools) and a good 2.1 is equivalent to a lot closer to a 4.0 than most US schools ask for. There are entrance exams, they aren't usually that bad though. The UKCAT tests intelligence rather than how many facts you can memorise so if you are one of those people that isn't naturally that bright but work really hard then you are a bit screwed really. GAMSAT is similar to MCAT but not exactly the same and only a few grad courses use it. BMAT is GCSE level in theory for us but our high school level stuff is harder than in the US so not sure exactly what level it would correlate to over there. Also, we can only apply to 4 schools and the vast majority of people don't get in.

 

[Scottish Chap]

......and a good 2.1 is equivalent to a lot closer to a 4.0 than most US schools ask for.

Come on now. I have a 2.1 from a rigorous university and it's not equivalent to or close to a 4.0., trust me. I've 4 years of experience of university in the U.K. and 8 in the U.S. Both systems are so insanely different in every regard that they cannot fairly be compared and grades cannot be 'inter-converted'. Therein lies the problem if British folks want to study medicine in the U.S. or Americans want to study medicine in the U.K.

Folks: a 2.1 or higher is expected if you are going for graduate entry medicine programmes in the U.K. Yet, some people with less than this are accepted. A GPA of 3.6 or higher is expected if you are going for allopathic medical school in the U.S. Yet, some people with less than this are accepted.

 

[bambi]

Come on now. I have a 2.1 from a rigorous university and it's not equivalent to or close to a 4.0., trust me. I've 4 years of experience of university in the U.K. and 8 in the U.S. Both systems are so insanely different in every regard that they cannot fairly be compared and grades cannot be 'inter-converted'. Therein lies the problem if British folks want to study medicine in the U.S. or Americans want to study medicine in the U.K.

Folks: a 2.1 or higher is expected if you are going for graduate entry medicine programmes in the U.K. Yet, some people with less than this are accepted. A GPA of 3.6 or higher is expected if you are going for allopathic medical school in the U.S. Yet, some people with less than this are accepted.

Like I said somewhere else a friend of mine that was at my uni got a low 2.1 in something and that was equivalent to an A at her US school. I don't know exactly how it works in the US and it seems to vary between your schools but generally it is harder to get the grades in the UK. The level of work is different too, you do things at college that we would do at school.

Very, very few people get in with anything less than a 2.1 and more and more places are starting to ask for 1sts. I think only 2 places accept a 2.2 and even then the majority of those that get in have a 2.1 or higher.

I think the thing that actually makes the most difference is the number of schools you can apply to.

 

[Rubisco1]

what is a 2.2?

 

[jnuts]

Really roughly, and remember every school is going to be different:

First= A+, >4.0, magna cum laude (one or two people per programme per year)
2.1= A-/A, 3.5-4.0, cum laude
2.2= B/A-, 3.0-3.5
Pass= C/B, 2.0 3.0 (most people just pass)

You absolutely CANNOT convert percentages between the two systems (e.g a First at RCSI is about 75%, Profs will tell you flat out that the highest grade 'they' give is a 7/10)

That's my comparison based on my exposure to RCSI and a top American University. But I'd stress that every school is different. Contact them to find out how they convert grades.

 

[bambi]

Really roughly, and remember every school is going to be different:

First= A+, >4.0, magna cum laude (one or two people per programme per year)
2.1= A-/A, 3.5-4.0, cum laude
2.2= B/A-, 3.0-3.5
Pass= C/B, 2.0 3.0 (most people just pass)

.

Most people absolutely do not just pass, not an undergraduate degree anyway, med school yes but very few of our med schools have letter grading, at most places it's just pass, fail and honours. At most places you don't even know your %, just which general bracket you fall into.

After a 2.2 there is 3rd class, then pass. Of the hundreds of people I know that have gone to unis all over the country I know of 1 that has just passed! From what I have seen a 1st is basically off your scale. A lot of the work we do in our 3rd year you don't touch at all. It does vary by uni though. Anyway, it is very hard to compare the 2 systems but saying most people just pass is so wrong that I just had to respond!

 

[Rubisco1]

thanks alot guys. i have sent emails to the 12 schools I need to narrow down to 4. I have read in other places that a 2:1 can be 3.0-3.69. I hope some of these schools fall into that category, otherwise I dont stand a chance with my 3.4.

Also, how do people generally feel about UK schools vs irish schools? When I do searches, the earliest things I am seeing are from 2002, which are probably no longer applicable.

Some of these UK schools say they reserve seats for 10 or 14 international students. Is it really that hard to get those spots? Also, UK is cheaper than ireland. Tuition is as low as 11,000 pounds for some schools, but it of course goes up to 21-25,000 for the last 3 years. Its still cheaper than ireland. Any thoughts?

 

[jnuts]

Most people absolutely do not just pass, not an undergraduate degree anyway, med school yes but very few of our med schools have letter grading, at most places it's just pass, fail and honours. At most places you don't even know your %, just which general bracket you fall into.

After a 2.2 there is 3rd class, then pass. Of the hundreds of people I know that have gone to unis all over the country I know of 1 that has just passed! From what I have seen a 1st is basically off your scale. A lot of the work we do in our 3rd year you don't touch at all. It does vary by uni though. Anyway, it is very hard to compare the 2 systems but saying most people just pass is so wrong that I just had to respond!

As I said, that's just based on my experience in Med school in Ireland (and the letter grades are what I considered an equivallent amount of work at University in the States, and the grade distribution I was used to there--of course the school I went to was famous for curving to a C). At RCSI, we don't have 3rd Class Honours, and passing a student is the school's statement that you're a safe practitioner. Saying most people just pass might have been a bit of an exaggeration, but I was trying to think of the whole University student population.

I wouldn't be surprised at all it the standards were different in other programs.

So I'd definitly retract what I said and go with Bambi if you're trying to get into a program in the UK. I was also using the Irish standards for admission as a rough guide to the UK but that may have not been a great comparison.

I think that one of the issues as well is that grade standardization between schools is a bit of an issue here. I think that's one of the reasons Intern jobs are offered on the basis of class rank as opposed to raw grades. Then again, that just assumes every student population is the same. Not sure that's a particularily effective trade-off

 

[bambi]

As I said, that's just based on my experience in Med school in Ireland (and the letter grades are what I considered an equivallent amount of work at University in the States, and the grade distribution I was used to there--of course the school I went to was famous for curving to a C). At RCSI, we don't have 3rd Class Honours, and passing a student is the school's statement that you're a safe practitioner. Saying most people just pass might have been a bit of an exaggeration, but I was trying to think of the whole University student population.

I wouldn't be surprised at all it the standards were different in other programs.

So I'd definitly retract what I said and go with Bambi if you're trying to get into a program in the UK. I was also using the Irish standards for admission as a rough guide to the UK but that may have not been a great comparison.

I think that one of the issues as well is that grade standardization between schools is a bit of an issue here. I think that's one of the reasons Intern jobs are offered on the basis of class rank as opposed to raw grades. Then again, that just assumes every student population is the same. Not sure that's a particularily effective trade-off

I wasn't sure if you were talking about med school or regular degrees. Anyway, in case it's not clear, the general medical degree is pass/fail/honours. Very few graduate with honours. Individual exams at med school can be low pass, pass, satisfactory, fail, honours, distinction, excellent etc depending on the school, very few give letter grades. Most people just pass.

Regular degrees are classed as 1st, 2.1, 2.2, 3rd or pass. Very few people just pass, just passing is awful, you would be better off not having a degree. A first is >70%. This is not equivalent to 70% in any US school. At all educational levels (excluding specialist things like med school), our standards are higher, what we do in our penultimate year of school many US students don't do until their 2nd year of college. Of course this varies by school in both countries but our standards are very high.

 

[bambi]

thanks alot guys. i have sent emails to the 12 schools I need to narrow down to 4. I have read in other places that a 2:1 can be 3.0-3.69. I hope some of these schools fall into that category, otherwise I dont stand a chance with my 3.4.

Also, how do people generally feel about UK schools vs irish schools? When I do searches, the earliest things I am seeing are from 2002, which are probably no longer applicable.

Some of these UK schools say they reserve seats for 10 or 14 international students. Is it really that hard to get those spots? Also, UK is cheaper than ireland. Tuition is as low as 11,000 pounds for some schools, but it of course goes up to 21-25,000 for the last 3 years. Its still cheaper than ireland. Any thoughts?

Irish schools are outside the UCAS system so although you can only apply to 4 UK schools Ireland will give you more chances. I don't know anyone that has done this as UK students tend to stay in the UK but it's totally possible. UK tuition is more in clinical years don't forget!