UMDNJ-SOM or UQ-Ochsner?

[Nontrad081287]

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Hi,

I'm currentyl deciding between UMDNJ-SOM and UQ-Ochsner (A joint program between the University of Queensland in Australia and Ochsner Clinic in New Orleans.)

Currently, I'm interested in neurology or neuropsychiatry and would like to go into academic medicine. Any recommendations for which program I should choose??

 

[cliquesh]

Neurology is easy and psychiatry is kind of a joke to match into. If you do average you will end up matching at a pretty good program without any problems. A pretty good program equals a State university. Please go the DO school, especially a cheap one like UNJ.

 

[coolingglasses]

Hi,

I'm currentyl deciding between UMDNJ-SOM and UQ-Ochsner (A joint program between the University of Queensland in Australia and Ochsner Clinic in New Orleans.)

Currently, I'm interested in neurology or neuropsychiatry and would like to go into academic medicine. Any recommendations for which program I should choose??

I'm seeing a lot of joint programs and branch campuses in the MD realm that go abroad (Duke Singapore, for example). What's the deal with these? You're still IMG, right?

 

[cliquesh]

I'm seeing a lot of joint programs and branch campuses in the MD realm that go abroad (Duke Singapore, for example). What's the deal with these? You're still IMG, right?

Yea, you still are an IMG.

 

[coolingglasses]

Yea, you are an IMG still.

I thought so. I was wondering where these fell on the MD/DO/IMG/Carribean hierarchy.

I agree then, go to UMDNJ. Unless you want to practice in QLD.

 

[cliquesh]

I'm not sure where they fall. I can't seem to find a match list for any of them.

 

[costales]

A school located on foreign soil should not be anyone's first choice for so many reasons.

 

[Hemorrage]

Many of these "side" programs like columbia's program in Isreal or Duke's in singapore give their students help with matching and so forth. I'm not sure how it works but i've called Columbia about their program at Ben Gurion and they said their students get preference right after columbia P&S students

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Definitely do UMDNJ-SOM.

 

[Mehd School]

I thought so. I was wondering where these fell on the MD/DO/IMG/Carribean hierarchy.

I agree then, go to UMDNJ. Unless you want to practice in QLD.

It's essentially impossible to gain an Australian residency without being a citizen there. What they're experiencing is a true residency crunch.

I've said all that you need to consider. There is no reason for you, or anyone to go to Australia at this time.

 

[coolingglasses]

It's essentially impossible to gain an Australian residency without being a citizen there. What they're experiencing is a true residency crunch.

I've said all that you need to consider. There is no reason for you, or anyone to go to Australia at this time.

yikes

 

[ineedsomewather]

The side programs you're mentioning are associated with a US medical school. Ochsner is a hospital system in New Orleans and doesn't have any exclusive ties to any medical school outside of UQ. LSU is in the process of mainly shutting its doors to non LSU grads due to funding.

Once again, Tel Aviv is tied to a med school, Singapore-duke is tied to a med school, and UQ is tied to a US Hospital.


Stay away. If all you need is a 3.0 and 24 to be competitive, you should be questioning the quality of the program. There are no easy shortcuts.

Um. You realize that just because those are the minimum requirements, that doesn't necessarily guarantee an acceptance to the program right? The average GPA/MCAT for the very FIRST cohort of the UQ-Ochsner program was a 3.3/28. I would argue those numbers are comparable to many US osteopathic medical schools.


While I agree "nontrad" should pursue UMDNJ, I think you should refrain from providing misleading information, particularly while providing advice to other people in this forum. Admissions to medical school in the US is increasingly competitive, and many students are forced to choose to attend schools outside the US (Caribbean, Australia, or wherever). Does that mean they will all be crappy doctors? No, many FMG/IMGs have successfully found great residencies and positions. Stick with the facts, and refrain from the judgmental attitude.

 

[ineedsomewather]

I'm from New Orleans. I assist a physician that is an attending at an Ochsner location. Hell, I had a cup of coffee with one of the admission directors for the UQ-Ochsner program right after Thanksgiving break.

So...what were you getting at again? I'm certain that you have no idea what the hell you're talking about in this specific discussion.

Excuse my shortness. Saying I'm ill informed then accuse me of spreading false information isn't something that should be followed up with generalities you might as well have stolen from wikipedia.

You aren't stating fact. Simply based on your line of reasoning, we would be questioning the quality of some of the osteopathic medical schools in the US. You really don't think thats misleading? It's incredibly unscientific to use such a double standard.

Look, I'm not trying to start a fight. Obviously, it's more difficult to get your residency of choice if your an IMG. But, to insinuate that people who are IMGs (i.e. QU-Ochsner) are using shortcuts, is immature and judgmental. Is that the same attitude you will have when you care for your patients some day?

Good luck with that.

 

[Mehd School]

Edit.

 

[gunslinga]

Edit.

Oh you met the dean/shadowed an attending? Could you share what they said to you re: UQ/Ochsner?? I assume they would be blunt about the program with you, especially the doctor you shadow.

I'm contemplating the same decision as OP. Would appreciate your input.

 

[Nontrad081287]

Oh you met the dean/shadowed an attending? Could you share what they said to you re: UQ/Ochsner?? I assume they would be blunt about the program with you, especially the doctor you shadow.

I'm contemplating the same decision as OP. Would appreciate your input.

It seems like the consensus (and I posted on both DO and MD forums to minimize biases) is to pick UMDNJ-SOM over UQ

 

[gunslinga]

Well if that is what the crowd says then so be it. But I'm still interested in what the people inside Ochsner had to say

 

[FutureDoctorrrr]

Hi,

I'm currentyl deciding between UMDNJ-SOM and UQ-Ochsner (A joint program between the University of Queensland in Australia and Ochsner Clinic in New Orleans.)

Currently, I'm interested in neurology or neuropsychiatry and would like to go into academic medicine. Any recommendations for which program I should choose??

I am also interested in neuro or neuropsych. I am a first yr at UMDNJ Just choose UMDNJ-SOM. Avoid being an IMG. A state medical school beats a foreign program any time of any day anywhere 🙂

 

[pre med 2014]

The side programs you're mentioning are associated with a US medical school. Ochsner is a hospital system in New Orleans and doesn't have any exclusive ties to any medical school outside of UQ. LSU is in the process of mainly shutting its doors to non LSU grads due to funding.

Once again, Tel Aviv is tied to a med school, Singapore-duke is tied to a med school, and UQ is tied to a US Hospital.


Stay away. If all you need is a 3.0 and 24 to be competitive, you should be questioning the quality of the program. There are no easy shortcuts.

The median stats are 3.4 and 29 MCAT for UQ-Ochsner. Some US MD have those medians.

 

[VisareAvGud]

The median stats are 3.4 and 29 MCAT for UQ-Ochsner. Some US DO have those medians.

Fixed

 

[pre med 2014]

Fixed

I won't bother to do the research but I know there are a few MD schools with DO medians. I think Howard is one.

 

[VisareAvGud]

I won't bother to do the research but I know there are a few MD schools with DO medians. I think Howard is one.

Are you an URM?

 

[pre med 2014]

Are you an URM?

No.

 

[VisareAvGud]

No.

Then your argument about Howard is irrelevant.

 

[GUH]

MD matriculants from Louisiana, Mississippi, New Mexico, Kansas, and Arkansas all had average MCAT scores around or below 29. The GPA bit might have been a stretch.

https://www.aamc.org/download/161700/data/table21.pdf
Note that these statistics are broken down by the applicants' states, not by school, so it could be that there are some lower-GPA schools.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The median stats are 3.4 and 29 MCAT for UQ-Ochsner. Some US MD have those medians.

I'm very doubtful of those stats. This program must be very keen on recruiting in Canada.

 

[Mehd School]

The median stats are 3.4 and 29 MCAT for UQ-Ochsner. Some US MD have those medians.

I'm very doubtful of those stats. This program must be very keen on recruiting in Canada.

I doubt it as well. I have a good friend that goes there with a 3.1 and a 25. She said she's about average with the other US students in the program. The directors will tell you a 3.0 and 8 in each section will make you "competitive".

Post a link pre med 2014.

 

[cliquesh]

I met a guy from UQ on the interview trail. He was interviewing at good places, like Duke, for a moderately competitive speciality.

 

[Mehd School]

I met a guy from UQ on the interview trail. He was interviewing at good places, like Duke, for a moderately competitive speciality.

They're posting their match list later this year.

 

[Mehd School]

A few factors that should be considered.

1) there are some structural issues that will negatively affect any IMG. Some residency programs simply will not consider any graduates from an off-shore school, regardless of being a US citizen or not.

2) The Queensland program is unknown to most US residency programs and therefore has no reputation. Medicine is a conservative culture and accepting someone from a new school is a hurdle.

3) With the California list recognized medical schools now being referred to and policy of medical boards in several other states, graduates of a new and unrecognized school may not be eligible for license in these states.

4) Overall data indicates less success in match for IMG, though that varies widely by school. Match for DO graduates approaching 95% between all allopathic and osteopathic programs.

The quality of UQ-Ochsner program is itself not the issue. I have dealt with the program and I think the program is likely on par with most US programs, particularly their clinical structure. But generally a US-DO degree will give more opportunity than an off shore MD degree, with but a few exceptions

This is the exception.

You spend 100% of your clerkships in either New Orleans or Baton Rouge and can expand on that during elective rotations. New Orleans is especially receptive to this program, as Ochsner is a heavy hitter in NOLA (and a wide range around LA). Ochsner itself has an impressive list of available residencies. I'd have to imagine UQ-Ochsner students are given some sort of preference here.

Again, 100% of rotations are spent in the US. This is unique, and shouldn't be compared to Ponce or Ross or even European schools for that matter. This is a program intended for students to practice IN the states.

 

[Mehd School]

So it appears the stats premed 2014 are legit. I'm interested by this, and will be looking into it a bit more. Furthermore, I'm interested in that match list when it comes out.

But holy christ is it expensive. Still seems like more of a risk than a DO school.

 

[Mehd School]

Again, its not the quality of the program that will be the issue but how the "culture" of how residency program's selection process tend to perceive new, off-shore programs. Even the big, successful Caribbean schools still run match rates 5%-15% below US schools. Additionally, the USMLE score is still a top selection factor for any program. Off-shore students can overcome much with a good USMLE score.

Yes, but you're comparing a Caribbean student who at best will at best have a couple away clerkships at a US location. This is irrelevant to the UQ-Ochsner argument because 100% of the UQ-O students clerkships and clinical education are in US hospitals, namely Ochsner which in and of itself has excellent and numerous residencies. I don't think you can compare this school to the Caribbean.

A more fair comparison in my opinion is comparing UQ to Duke-Singapore or the offshore Columbia affiliate (both of which have excellent match #'s).

 

[Syialb]

3) With the California list recognized medical schools now being referred to and policy of medical boards in several other states, graduates of a new and unrecognized school may not be eligible for license in these states.

Just curious, why are there no D.O. schools on that list despite CA having two schools of its own?

 

[Syialb]

California is one of the 10 or so states that still maintains a separate Osteopathic Medical Board . The list previously mentioned was by the California Medical Board which would have no jurisdiction of non-MD schools

Makes sense, thanks.

 

[pre med 2014]

A few factors that should be considered.

1) there are some structural issues that will negatively affect any IMG. Some residency programs simply will not consider any graduates from an off-shore school, regardless of being a US citizen or not.

2) The Queensland program is unknown to most US residency programs and therefore has no reputation. Medicine is a conservative culture and accepting someone from a new school is a hurdle.

3) With the California list recognized medical schools now being referred to and policy of medical boards in several other states, graduates of a new and unrecognized school may not be eligible for license in these states.

4) Overall data indicates less success in match for IMG, though that varies widely by school. Match for DO graduates approaching 95% between all allopathic and osteopathic programs.

The quality of UQ-Ochsner program is itself not the issue. I have dealt with the program and I think the program is likely on par with most US programs, particularly their clinical structure. But generally a US-DO degree will give more opportunity than an off shore MD degree, with but a few exceptions

3) That link says California recognizes UQ medical school

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

3) That link says California recognizes UQ medical school

They recognize Ross too.

 

[pre med 2014]

They recognize Ross too.

And?