UMDNJ-SOM vs. LECOM?

[grev]

as you may suspect i'm having a hard time deciding between umdnj and lecom. I really liked lecom when i interviewed, the integrated systems approach, the students, the faculty, the board passing rates, and first choice matching percentages appear to be great too. However, UMDNJ has a great reputation, has better facilities in terms of hospitals and research (which i'm interested in) but not so great student facilities. I also noticed in the yearbooks that most of their graduates stay in NJ. I'm from Florida, i want to practice in Florida, and i know that lecom even does some rotations in Florida, and most of their graduates leave the area, which is not so bad by the way... ANY INSIGHT ON THIS WOULD BE GREAT!!!

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[Smile]

grev,
don't take this the wrong way, but it seems as if you have already listed the pros and cons of each school, and now it is ultimately up to you to decide which is best to attend. adding to the cliche, i advise you to go to the school where you feel the most comfortable, the one that is right for YOU, and nobody else. i would suggest you go to the school you feel will give you the best education and preparation. after you're all done, you are free to practice wherever you want, florida or elsewhere. also, one thing that is important to me at least, is the general atmosphere of the school. did you find yourself simply more comfortable in one over the other? i have been to schools where i just didn't like the environment, and thus scratched them off my list, knowing i would have to spend at least two grueling years in those places.

 

[pirulo]

thanks a lot for your reply, i'm still undecided, i'm really afraid about the blocks of exams at umdnj, but i'm hoping to avoid them by getting in the pbl, lecom's integrated system approach is really attractive as are their lecture halls and labs at least in comparison to umdnj's. however, i'm afraid that although lecom has 41 hospital affiliations, i'll be giving up a better chance for rotations and residency matching by not going to the more reputable and established school. i really don't have the exact numbers for boards or match for either, so i really have to go by what i hear, and what students from either schools tell me, any further suggestions anyone?
p.s. i had to change my username because my old one did not work for some reason

 

[Epi35]

hey florida guy:

refer to your spreadsheets, they should tell you that UMDNJ is a better school.

[and they give out cool shirts]

 

[rowerman]

Go to LECOM, you'll be happier to relocate back to Florida and do rotations there. NJ keeps everyone in state. You'll still be a DO regardless of where you go. You can do the two PBL years in Erie and go literally anywhere you want after that or you can spend four years in NJ and possibly be stuck there. I'll be choosing LECOM over others as well...lots of hospital affiliations and growing.

PS. LECOM also gives out cool shirts

[This message has been edited by rowerman (edited 03-07-2000).]

 

[turtleboard]

Yeah, but then LECOM has that whole dress-code thing, and UMDNJ is part of a state university system that's created for itself a pretty extensive hospital network that's at least centrally located.

Why anyone would want to live out of his suitcase during the third and fourth years of medical school is beyond me!

Tim of New York City.

 

[rowerman]

Turtle Head-

Ohhh, a dress code, God forbid...it's not even enforced anymore according to my friends there. Just think, you might even actually have to wear a tie when you're a physician or even on rotations. I could show you how to tie a fine windsor knot if you'd like when that day rolls along. Living out of a suitcase would be terrible, especially if your hospital affilations are close to home...in this case Florida. Fact is, most students have to do rotations somewhere distant from school at some point. Get into school first, then we'll talk...

 

[UHS2002]

You must have missed it, Rowerman, but Tim (AKA Turtleboard) IS in med school.

For some people the dress code is a big deal. I sure will not mind wearing some fancy suit when I make the salary to purchase it...and when I don't have to wear it just to sit on my derriere for 8 hours of lectures...

When I interviewed at LECOM, 2 years ago, the dress code WAS a big deal to the school. Anyways, it goes beyond the simple act of wearing a certain attire. It reflects on the values of the school and the kind of students they select. Some people love a rigidly structured environment, where part of who you are and represent is also embodied by your outfit. Others prefer a more informal educational setting. It is not about just putting some clothes on, it is about how the school perceives you, your role as med student, and as you perceive yourself. There is no right or wrong here, there is just what makes you more comfortable. If you think that going to school wearing a tie everyday makes you more comfortable than going to school wearing jeans, by all means, do it. If you think that no self respecting med school should have students wearing anything but "professional attire", then you should choose the schools that require everyone to do so. Thank goodness there are well over 100 med schools (DO and MD) to accomodate everyone's tastes and philosophies.

If you think slacks and tie make a physician out of you (or at least a physician-wannabe) then you haven't learnt much.

By the way, where do you go to school?

 

[RAM#48]

It is obvious that Rowerman is a schill for LECOM.

"You can do the two PBL years in Erie and go literally anywhere you want after that"

According to LECOM there there are 43 hospital rotation locations:
PA - 28
OH - 8
MI - 1
GA - 1
WV - 1
FL - 1
NY - 3

"Anywhere" Uh-huh

"Ohhh, a dress code, God forbid"

Some people really don't like one. I personally think it is a superficial attempt at professionalism. I will be a medical STUDENT, not a physician. When time comes for a suit or tie on rotations, I won't mind at all. But not when I am gonna be in class and lab all the time.

 

[turtleboard]

Rowerman,

I am in med school. We don't have a dress code. The farthest we'll ever have to travel for a rotation is to the other end of town, and I won't be living out of a suitcase since all our rotation sites are within an hour of the main campus. And what if that one hour is found to be a nuisance for some students? Simple. Do all your rotations on campus at the university's hospital or at the large municipal hospital across the street.

My point is that if you can attend a school that has all its rotation sites near "home base," why not do so? UMDNJ is a far superior school, in my opinion, because of the extensive resources it has. Their list of clinical affiliations is also pretty damn good, and all pretty darn close to each other. So maybe Samsonite won't be your only roomate.

And, again, I don't agree with the LECOM dress code. I think, as was already mentioned, it's a silly attempt to infuse "professionalism" into the student body. I normally attend class in sweats or jeans and a cap. It's fine. Am I any less a professional than my LECOM buddy? Perhaps, but that's just me and not my dress. If a school must force its students to wear a shirt, tie, and white coat to class just to teach them to be professional, I wonder what that says about the school's choice of a student body (Don't mind me, I'm just makin' waves...).

Is a windsor knot the only thing you can tie? There's a whole wide world of knots out there, why not use something that's a little more up to date?


Tim of New York City.

 

[SUNYboy]

This Tim sounds like someone from my class. I am an M-I from SUNY downstate. If this is him, I will agree that he does dress like that. However, if I were to comment, I and a few others in my class think he looks and acts like a slant eyed geek. It will not surprise any of you that he is the type of guy that annoys the rest of the class. Just my opinion though.

xxxxxxx from New York

 

[capt.freedom]

Freedom buddies, we may have to mobilize our troops and head for the big apple. It appears that someone may need our help. Worry not, Tim. The super buddies will protect the weak and helpless. Those bullies will never hurt you. Now will you join us in a FREEDOM DANCE!?!!

Remember, they may take our lives, but they will never take: our FFFRRRREEEEEDDDDOOOMMMM!!!

 

[turtleboard]

SUNYboy,

It sure is me. Who are you?

As for the "slant-eyed geek" comment, if you really knew who I was, you'd know I don't have "slant-eyes."


Tim of New York City.

[This message has been edited by turtleboard (edited 03-08-2000).]

 

[Test Boy]

I would go to New Jersey. The mandatory attendance at LECOM is a big turnoff. I think you have to call in each time you plan not to come to lectures. I mean, that's just ridiculous.

 

[rowerman]

Again, the attendance policy is not, by any means, enforced. They cannot force you to attend class. I've often talked to my friend (who does very well there) at times he should be in class. You determine which lectures you will attend or not, you pay tuition; this is not enforced and is lax as is the dress code. Word is, is that these will be phased out shortly...

 

[Dr'04]

I think UMDNJ-SOM is the better choice. Aside from the lack of weird rules that you'd have at LECOM (which may or may not matter, but the point is that the school has these rules and it may indicate something about the way the school is run), I've only seen and heard good things about UMDNJ. On the other hand, I've heard people gripe a lot about LECOM. You should check the archives for posts about LECOM from about 6 or 8 months ago. I recall something about LECOM running some kind of scam--I don't have any clue what it was, but I remember thinking that the school has problems. Since then, however, I admit I've only heard positive things. Also, I've only been to UMDNJ-SOM, so I can't give an opinion of LECOM based on what I saw. But I must say UMDNJ-SOM was EXTREMELY impressive.

 

[pirulo]

ok, first of all, i am 'grev' who originally posted this thread, my other loggin name doesn't want to work though. Anyway, thanks a lot for all the insight, on friday i went to the reception at umdnj and many of my doubts were cleared up. the dress code is not really a big deal for me, but the fact that umdnj has a university hospital does, the fact that it is one of the best research funded d.o. schools also matters, the fact that for the past two years 100% passed the boards, and that 90% get their first choice on the match also is important. I saw the school inside and out, and i met the faculty, and every single detail was more and more impressive... it's really a great school, and has a great reputation, the students did seem a little overworked, but i guess you can't avoid that in medical school... I think that by going to the more reputable, established and resourceful school, i will become a better physician, and have better opportunities to gain residencies wherever I want. Most people stay in NJ who go to umdnj because over 90% are from there, and most importantly because the university hospital has great programs for it's students in almost all areas, not just primary care. I think i'm decided, but i still got a couple of interviews, and am waiting for a couple of schools, so i'll keep my options open, and keep wearing my umdnj-som class of 2004 T-shirt...

 

[turtleboard]

pirulo, UMDNJ-SOM has its own hospital? On-campus? That'd be a first for an osteopathic school!

Or do you mean UMDNJ-RWJ and UMDNJ-NJMS have their own hospitals, but the SOM kids get to go there too?


Tim of New York City.

 

[Robb1818]

Yes Tim...it's true. It's on campus. Pretty impressive school, let me tell you.

 

[SUNYboy]

Yeah knowitall, it's on campus!! Must you have an opinion on EVERYTHING!!!

 

[turtleboard]

Well, SUNYboy, since you know me so well you probably know about my need to be "opinionated."


Tim of New York City.

 

[pirulo]

tim, umdnj-som uses the kennedy health system hospitals. yes, as i stated, i've been there twice and the hospital is the kennedy UNIVERSITY hospital, it is a university hospital, not an affiliation, and it is on campus... it's great not only for rotations, but they are one of the only d.o. hospitals that offers residency and fellowship programs in practically every field. Their FP residency has 45 residents and it's one if not the largest FP residency in the nation (DO or MD.) Don't get me wrong though, it's still a small hospital, but it does have facilities in chestnut hill and washington township as well. I am also quite sure this is not the only d.o. school with its own hospital, i would check on all the schools that have joint d.o. and m.d. programs, all the state schools, and i'm pretty sure that pcom also has its own hospital aside from the one that recently closed which they had sold off previously...

 

[Jessica]

Hi, I don't mean to get off the subject of LECOM, but Pirulo (grev), have you been interviewed or are considering PCOM? I just interviewed at PCOM on 3/5 and at UMDNJ-SOM on 2/28. I've interned at UMDNJ-SOM this past summer, and yes, when I was there for the interview, I was more and more impressed with the students and faculty. But I must say that when I went to PCOM, everyone was happy. I did not see one person who was unhappy there. The environment is very conducive to learning and the everyone seemed so motivated. I felt very comfortable there. I am a NJ resident and I do like UMD for its small size and GREAT reputation.
Well, as of now, I am still awaiting both decisions. Next Tuesday should be D-day for UMD and PCOM should be before the end of the month. Any insight that you can give would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Duo Degree]

this may be off the subject, but does it worry anyone that there are "professionals" out there like Sunyboy who would use slurs such as "slant eyes geeks" to describe people???? granted that professionalism can be thought of as your appearance, but it is also the way you communicate with others!!!

 

[pirulo]

jessica, for me class size is really important, especially when we're talking about such a resourcefull school as is umdnj. bottom line is that both schools are really good, pcom has a great reputation as well, umdnj gets some credibility in the md world because it has two md schools and its a state school. however, pcom is very reputable in the do world, and apparently very resourceful as well, they're both pretty much in the same area, about 15 minutes appart. for you, the main decision should be tuition, whether or not you wanna live in the city or in a suburb, and class size... it's your decision, i would go with umdnj in a heartbeat, but to be fair i have not been to pcom, so you have more elements to make the decision than me.