UMKC Six Year OR Mizzou Undergrad?

[nervouskid]

Hi, this is my first post on this website, so first off if this is the wrong place for this post, my apologies.

The reason I am posting this thread is because I am very torn between two very different routes to obtaining my dream (becoming an MD). One direction is the UMKC Six Year BA/MD route which is very unique and the other is go to the University of Missouri in Columbia (or Mizzou) and take complete pre-med and major in something that interests me that I would contribute to my life as an MD in some way (probably psychology). So far I only have an interview at UMKC but I am feeling somewhat confident to my acceptance, about 60 %...

ABOUT UMKC: Like I said my dream, and the only way I can see myself happy, is becoming an MD. So for those of you who don't know, if you are accepted into this program, you are already in medical school and DO NOT have to reapply. To me, that seems like a very big plus because I have been looking all over the internet about becoming a doctor and of course I am rather fearful of going through college, doing great, getting an alright MCAT score and never making it into medical school with my dream crushed. I know it's good not to worry, but I like to play it on the safe side.

Going to Mizzou- Well, it is basically a great public institution that I feel like I would have a great time at and thrive. I'm just worried that I may never make it into med school if I go to Mizzou, but I feel like if I could make it into medical school I will be a much more well-rounded medical doctor and maybe even a better physician because I have chances at a better education.

A little about me: This may or may not influence your advice, but no such thing as too much information! Basically I am no genius, which is why I am worried about "the evil MCAT." I have a 4.0 in my high school, with the hardest classes possible (I live in a rural-ish area so we don't have tons of fancy AP classes such as AP chemistry, we just have chemistry) but I've been acing calculus and honors classes. I'm in the top of my class, but out there in "college world," I'm sure there will be lots of hard-working geniuses when I'm just a hard worker who is a little smart. If I go to Mizzou, I will plan on working my hardest: Volunteering six hours a week from week one all four years, getting a 4.0 (easier said than done, I know), being a part of many EC's, studying for the MCAT for months whenever it comes around, etc.. I just have this notion that getting into medical school is next to impossible.



So if you've made it through my boring post, I thank you haha. I just need some perspective from people who have been around the pre-med pool and maybe even med students. So if you could please contribute to any of these:

1. Should I risk Mizzou and never getting into medical school or go straight to my dream?
2 If I know from day one I want to be a doctor walking onto the Mizzou campus, and work my butt off, do I have a good shot of becoming a medical doctor? Would it be worth the risk? Is the MCAT really terrible, or do I just hear all the "negative" stories because they are most of the ones to post about it.
3. If you are or know anyone who made through pre-med and was accepted into medschool, tell me about them. It'd be nice to hear what these people are like.
🙂 Thank you for your time!!!

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[MedPR]

Hi, this is my first post on this website, so first off if this is the wrong place for this post, my apologies.

The reason I am posting this thread is because I am very torn between two very different routes to obtaining my dream (becoming an MD). One direction is the UMKC Six Year BA/MD route which is very unique and the other is go to the University of Missouri in Columbia (or Mizzou) and take complete pre-med and major in something that interests me that I would contribute to my life as an MD in some way (probably psychology). So far I only have an interview at UMKC but I am feeling somewhat confident to my acceptance, about 60 %... (my sister is currently in the program which apparently gives me a major leg up according to what she has heard from admissions people, not to say I'm not a strong applicant.)

ABOUT UMKC: Like I said my dream, and the only way I can see myself happy, is becoming an MD. So for those of you who don't know, if you are accepted into this program, you are already in medical school and DO NOT have to reapply. To me, that seems like a very big plus because I have been looking all over the internet about becoming a doctor and of course I am rather fearful of going through college, doing great, getting an alright MCAT score and never making it into medical school with my dream crushed. I know it's good not to worry, but I like to play it on the safe side.
Downside- I have heard that the UMKC Six Year Medical School is the worst thing ever and crunching it all together is a nightmare. I'm afraid I wouldn't get a solid education. I would rather be no doctor at all than an incompetent doctor. I have also hear those are just radical critics and people who go to medical school do just fine and aren't stuck with crappy residencies, but it's hard to see who is right. I'm sure they may be alright doctors, but I figured some of you may know more details.

Going to Mizzou- Well, it is basically a great public institution that I feel like I would have a great time at and thrive. I'm just worried that I may never make it into med school if I go to Mizzou, but I feel like if I could make it into medical school I will be a much more well-rounded medical doctor and maybe even a better physician because I have chances at a better education.

A little about me: This may or may not influence your advice, but no such thing as too much information! Basically I am no genius, which is why I am worried about "the evil MCAT." I have a 4.0 in my high school, with the hardest classes possible (I live in a rural-ish area so we don't have tons of fancy AP classes such as AP chemistry, we just have chemistry) but I've been acing calculus and honors classes. I'm in the top of my class, but out there in "college world," I'm sure there will be lots of hard-working geniuses when I'm just a hard worker who is a little smart. If I go to Mizzou, I will plan on working my hardest: Volunteering six hours a week from week one all four years, getting a 4.0 (easier said than done, I know), being a part of many EC's, studying for the MCAT for months whenever it comes around, etc.. I just have this notion that getting into medical school is next to impossible. Also, I am like 1/16 to 1/32 Native American if that means anything at all.



So if you've made it through my boring post, I thank you haha. I just need some perspective from people who have been around the pre-med pool and maybe even med students. So if you could please contribute to any of these:

1. Should I risk Mizzou and never getting into medical school or go straight to my dream?
2. Know of (or where I could find information) where umkc students go to residencies on average? Do they become competent doctors that can be impressive? Do residencies look down upon them?
3. If I know from day one I want to be a doctor walking onto the Mizzou campus, and work my butt off, do I have a good shot of becoming a medical doctor? Would it be worth the risk? Is the MCAT really terrible, or do I just hear all the "negative" stories because they are most of the ones to post about it.
4. If you are or know anyone who made through pre-med and was accepted into medschool, tell me about them. It'd be nice to hear what these people are like.
🙂 Thank you for your time!!!

Have you considered medical scholars at SLU? Keep your grades up and you're essentially an auto-admit to SLUSOM, but you can always apply to other med schools if you want (but you'll lose your auto-seat at SLUSOM if you do). Best of both worlds, really. Do well in school (which you'll need to do regardless of your path) and have a seat waiting for you. Yet you aren't tied down to a school (as you are with UMKC) if you don't like it.

As for your questions.

1. I would go to Mizzou. I've heard less than good things about the UMKC program. I shadowed a doc who did it in the 80's (I think) and said it was fine, but he's the only one I've heard say anything not-bad about it.
2. Here's the 2012 match list: http://www.med.umkc.edu/sa/match.shtml. Read into it as much as you want.
3. Yes. If you work hard, jump through the necessary hoops, and are halfway intelligent, you'll get into med school.
4. Lots of pre-meds on this forum with a good story. Just look around.

 

[BigBear123]

I don't know a lot about BA/MD programs, but I would imagine most of the kids who are able to get in to them would have gotten into med school via the "traditional" route.

I think there are important questions you need to ask yourself, such as how much do you value the college experience? Personally, I loved, LOVED college. I would have gladly stayed a 5th year if it wasn't for the cost. To me, it would not have been worth it go into a BA/MD program straight out of high school because I feel like it would have taken away from my experience.

Also, are you 100% set on medicine? I know many people who entered college as pre-med but discovered one or two years later that another path was right for them. I'm not saying this is going to happen to you, but obviously in a BA/MD program you are a lot more committed to going through with it than a pre-med in a regular BA program.

 

[nervouskid]

Thanks for the advice about SLU but I've already missed that deadline. So no use worrying about that haha. I guess I just worry too much about not getting accepted into a medical school after undergrad and the horror stories of not getting accepted ring my mind. Thanks so much for the advice! If I wanted a good application (excluding GPA and MCAT, I've been reading those for a week so I'm pretty familiar.) Would say, over 500 hours (in hospital) in four years stand out, or do lots of people do that on the applications and is considered too much of the norm? I'll do it either way, but what would be good to do aside from that? Things I should keep in my head from day one that most people don't?

 

[nervouskid]

I don't know a lot about BA/MD programs, but I would imagine most of the kids who are able to get in to them would have gotten into med school via the "traditional" route.

I think there are important questions you need to ask yourself, such as how much do you value the college experience? Personally, I loved, LOVED college. I would have gladly stayed a 5th year if it wasn't for the cost. To me, it would not have been worth it go into a BA/MD program straight out of high school because I feel like it would have taken away from my experience.

Also, are you 100% set on medicine? I know many people who entered college as pre-med but discovered one or two years later that another path was right for them. I'm not saying this is going to happen to you, but obviously in a BA/MD program you are a lot more committed to going through with it than a pre-med in a regular BA program.

Yeah, that is one thing I am weighing on my scale is the college experience. But yes, I know for a fact I am set on medicine. It's just something I've always known and it hasn't ever change. It's nothing to do with the money (obviously, I could make much better money being a business major and at a lot younger age) or the prestige, but just the fact that I am fascinated with science and helping people. Haha, not trying to just say lots of random things, but I just always get asked "are you sure you really really really want to go into medicine" all the time, and it's hard to get across to your average person haha.

And I am so glad you had an awesome college experience! That's what lifes about! Thanks for the advice.

 

[BigBear123]

Thanks for the advice about SLU but I've already missed that deadline. So no use worrying about that haha. I guess I just worry too much about not getting accepted into a medical school after undergrad and the horror stories of not getting accepted ring my mind. Thanks so much for the advice! If I wanted a good application (excluding GPA and MCAT, I've been reading those for a week so I'm pretty familiar.) Would say, over 500 hours (in hospital) in four years stand out, or do lots of people do that on the applications and is considered too much of the norm? I'll do it either way, but what would be good to do aside from that? Things I should keep in my head from day one that most people don't?

I know this post wasn't directed at me, but I would say, take it easy your first semester of college and try to focus on doing well in your classes rather than on building your resume. Then, try to get involved in activities that you are INTERESTED in - they don't necessarily have to directly relate to medicine. This can be research, community service, student activities, teaching/tutoring, etc. Commit to the ones that you're passionate about and continue doing them for the rest of college (if you are able to or have the desire to). Really the only "cookie cutter" thing you NEED to do in college is to demonstrate that you have taken the time to explore medicine and been able to evaluate that it's a good fit for you. Most people do this via hospital volunteering and shadowing, but you can also do this by being a scribe or EMT, volunteering at a free clinic, etc. Take advantage of whatever opportunities come your way!

Good luck!

 

[ErrantWhatever]

Not UMKC. I really got to know a lot of attendings and residents in KC while I was there, and it is not held in high esteem.

 

[Mygod]

hahah I honestly dont think the "real college experience" plays a factor. I currently go to this school and from my personal experience and my high school friends experience through the traditional route for medical school I dont really see you missing out on too much. Yes you wont get as many crazy parties and yes you dont have a football team to cheer for but for the first two years at UMKC you get a good experience with a relatively easy course load. Having 23 hours sounds like a lot but the caliber of classes is far below what you would be taking at a place like Mizzou. On top of that most kids who end up taking the traditional route have to not only get near straight As but also need volunteer work and research to have a solid resume. Going to mizzou for for years and working your butt off to get a solid resume plus having to dominate the MCAT and the interview are all things you have to consider. As a whole going to undergrad will allow you to experience the undergraduate life and get to interact with more people . Also being able to have those extra two years before entering medical school can be immensely helpful for those folks that have not gotten their study habits figured out as well as just priorities

 

[Mygod]

also to those people that are dissing the caliber of the program. Im pretty sure our step 1 scores have been above the national average the last two years and has only been steadily increasing. The match list is also decently impressive for this school and honestly the match list is a pretty good indicator. Considering the average age of the students here are 2 -3 years below a normal medical school really shows that the school cant be that bad if board scores and residency matching is pretty good.

 

[ErrantWhatever]

hahah I honestly dont think the "real college experience" plays a factor. I currently go to this school and from my personal experience and my high school friends experience through the traditional route for medical school I dont really see you missing out on too much. Yes you wont get as many crazy parties and yes you dont have a football team to cheer for but for the first two years at UMKC you get a good experience with a relatively easy course load. Having 23 hours sounds like a lot but the caliber of classes is far below what you would be taking at a place like Mizzou. On top of that most kids who end up taking the traditional route have to not only get near straight As but also need volunteer work and research to have a solid resume. Going to mizzou for for years and working your butt off to get a solid resume plus having to dominate the MCAT and the interview are all things you have to consider. As a whole going to undergrad will allow you to experience the undergraduate life and get to interact with more people . Also being able to have those extra two years before entering medical school can be immensely helpful for those folks that have not gotten their study habits figured out as well as just priorities

also to those people that are dissing the caliber of the program. Im pretty sure our step 1 scores have been above the national average the last two years and has only been steadily increasing. The match list is also decently impressive for this school and honestly the match list is a pretty good indicator. Considering the average age of the students here are 2 -3 years below a normal medical school really shows that the school cant be that bad if board scores and residency matching is pretty good.

So you explicitly state that the coursework is not as challenging as other UG programs and then argue that it nonetheless offers solid MD residency prep? I...see...

3 points:

1) You're going to get rock stars in any program--people who are both intellectually gifted as well as socially capable. I'd say I met some of them from UMKC while I was there, so yes, the program has them.

2) Trite as the statement may be, but people (esp. young people) can be academically talented yet lacking in the basic maturity or social competency that naturally comes with age. This was the chief complaint of residents and attendings that I encountered in KC. The students generally had a more cumbersome time interacting with both patients and hospital staff, and frankly, they just pulled annoying **** regularly like not showing up on time.

3) Program reputations develop for a reason. It doesn't mean all students of the program suck, but there is a general trend. Almost universally doctors who worked with local med students ranked them as follows: KU, KCUMB, UMKC.

Not trying to rip on mygod's program, and I hope he/she excels there. Just giving the OP firsthand info.

 

[zedonks]

Hi!

So I also had a similar decision as Turd (great username btw.. 😛) after high-school. I was deciding between Northwestern's (7 yr) , Boston Universities' (7 yr) and Penn State/Thomas Jefferson's (6 yr) combined programs. Ultimately I didn't go to those programs because I was accepted into my dream school (a top 10 school) and got a significantly higher scholarship to go there than the combined programs. I remember thinking "well I only do college once so it may as well be my dream school if I have that chance."

I had a bumpy undergrad experience though with illness and life, and got a 3.2 science GPA (whoops). I took a year off to apply to med school. I also had to take some summer courses after graduating to make up for some bad pre-med grades. I do think the MCAT is pretty challenging, but I studied hard for it at got a fairly competitive score (35). I realize that number doesn't mean much to you now, but it's basically a number that says "oh they can do science work if they apply themselves but they're not a super genius."

I was so worried about not getting in to any medical school this year. I applied widely and spent sooo much money and time, but thankfully I got into some great programs! Not nearly as prestigious as Northwestern, but I am confident that if I work hard in med school I can obtain the residency and career path that I want.

Did I make the right choice? For me, I think I did (of course if I hadn't gotten into med school this cycle I'd probably be singing a different song.) I had a lot of great experiences in undergrad, (although I may have had these experiences in a combined program, although I think a 6 yr program is a little quick since you lose all your undergrad summers.) More importantly, the things I struggled through in undergrad are really going to help me as a med student.

Basically I don't think there's necessarily a wrong or right choice, just know that whatever choice you make, you can always make the best of it if you work hard.

 

[Mygod]

Sorry I should have been more about the specifics. I'm talking of the undergraduate classes. Of course the medical school classes are hard just as they are everywhere. Yeah I would agree with some kids not being mature enough but that is one thing that makes a program not for everyone. a huge factoring wanting to do an accelerated program is feeling like you are mature enough to take on the challenge. The admission staff tries to find the kids that are most committed and mature but of course like any admissions process they make errors. Also Errantwhatever I'm curious to here what doctors you talked to that rated the schools in that order. From what I hear from doctors from other programs around the country, not saying I've talked to all programs but the few I have and from others at our school,the clinical skills are actually applauded. Not saying we are better students but having three years of clinical experience compared to two as well as being in the hospital for six years makes us more comfortable around the patients.

 

[Mygod]

Hey sorry OP from straying from the topic. I think if you do end up going to mizzou you will do just fine as long as you stay concentrated on your eventual goal. I have many friends who went to state colleges and they did just fine. The kids who did not get into medical school were the kids that either did not truly have a strong desire or the kids who could not make it because of intelligence. If you are truly meant to get into medical school don't sweat it. Good luck with your future endeavors and remember no matter what you choose the path will be arduous but if you work hard it will pay off in the end

 

[nervouskid]

Hey everyone! Just wanted to say thank you for all your advice! I was accepted to the 6 year program, and I plan to attend. I am sure I will get some criticism, but I will list some reasons for my decision! Also, the reasons for going to Mizzou made it a really tough decision!

So, why I am choosing to attend UMKC...


The most important reason I chose UMKC is because I want to be a doctor. Statistically, 60% of people are rejected from medical school each year (roughly, I may be mistaken... but that is how I read it). If I got through MU, and I was rejected from every school except for a terrible one... Why turn it down, when it is my dream? My best friends always told me to never outsmart my common sense! It is pretty simple, it's medical school, I want to be a doctor, I'd do anything for it, so I gotta go!

Sorry if this seems like a rant, but I get annoyed by people questioning my decision to go to UMKC. It helps to defend myself, or I start questioning myself. Thank you for anyone who also gave me good reasons not to go, they were not ignored! Also, if anyone is wanting to go to UMKC, this thread my help them make their decision!

 

[516662]

Hey everyone! Just wanted to say thank you for all your advice! I was accepted to the 6 year program, and I plan to attend. I am sure I will get some criticism, but I will list some reasons for my decision! Also, the reasons for going to Mizzou made it a really tough decision!

...

good decision. im in a bs/md program (sophomore) and, although I now believe I could have gotten in through the traditional route, (currently have a good gpa, great ECs), i decided not to give up what i already had. i would never forgive myself if i messed up in undergrad somehow since i had the acceptance out of high school. yeah i got into an ivy league school for undergrad but who gives a crap about that after all the schooling is over? you can go to an ordinary school and make bank as a doctor and that's what's keeping me going.

 

[nervouskid]

good decision. im in a bs/md program (sophomore) and, although I now believe I could have gotten in through the traditional route, (currently have a good gpa, great ECs), i decided not to give up what i already had. i would never forgive myself if i messed up in undergrad somehow since i had the acceptance out of high school. yeah i got into an ivy league school for undergrad but who gives a crap about that after all the schooling is over? you can go to an ordinary school and make bank as a doctor and that's what's keeping me going.

Thanks for the awesome advice! And yeah, you make some really good points.

 

[soccer123]

Wow, we have a lot in common! I was faced with this same decision. I don't think UMKC is bad at all, my sister currently goes there and she says the program is actually pretty awesome. I also chose UMKC over Mizzou. It was really tough because my family is also closer and and all my friends went to Mizzou! It also is a drag entering this program and seeing how much credit other people have, but small town kids like us are kinda stuck with less credit hours. Still an awesome program though! I also recall you saying you were Native American, I am too! I don't really look like it though... and I haven't really heard too many negative things about the program, but you can find anything on the internet! Maybe we'll meet each other at UMKC sometime and not even know it! I usually don't even do this sort of thing, but we had so much in common I thought I'd actually make an account and let you know that others have made a similar decision as you! I'm really hoping us 6 years have time to do fun stuff, like soccer! I love soccer!

 

[ChairmanCK]

UMKC is a solid program! The have an innovative curriculum and prioritize patient care (you begin seeing patients almost immediately). Their 6 year program offers an excellent opportunity to become a well rounded physician in an accelerated format. I've visited both UMKC and MU and I was many times more impressed by UMKC SOM. Look more into their docent groups - it's a great initiative.

I would take others advice with a grain of salt, especially when it comes to subjective "rankings" of area school. On a side note KU students are competing for patient interactions with interns, residents and fellows - not a problem in the UMKC program.

I don't understand the hostility towards their program. I guess I'll chock it up to either ignorance or arrogance.

Either way, good luck to you.