Unbalanced MCAT Score- 517

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casanova said:
I recently got back my score and I'm scared that my low CARS might hinder me from applying to certain schools

Total: 517

C/P: 130
CARS: 125
B/B: 131
P/S: 131

Should I be worried?
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CARS gets cut the most slack. Please spread the word. You're fine.
 
Goro said:
CARS gets cut the most slack. Please spread the word. You're fine.
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I'm just curious, with a score like this, would applying to some powerhouse schools be a good idea?
 
casanova said:
I'm just curious, with a score like this, would applying to some powerhouse schools be a good idea?
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Potentia Virtus said:
Why does CARS get cut the most slack?
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altblue said:
Compared to other sections, there's a larger element of luck to CARS, and it's also the least relevant to medicine of the four
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In addition, many applicants are either ESL or 1st gen. Americans, and CARS is more tricky for them. Also keep in mind that tons of candidates did fine in college and the other parts of the MCAT, so there's something perverse about CARS!

If you look at the score breakdowns for med school acceptees, the median CARS score is a full point below the other categories.
 
I honestly don't think that CARS has anything to do with luck, not more than any of the other sections. It's just a different sort of skill. But being able to think critically, infer meanings from context and subtext, and filter information are important skills for physicians to have as well. I guess I'm just biased because it was my best section, ha ha.
 
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Potentia Virtus said:
I honestly don't think that CARS has anything to do with luck, not more than any of the other sections. It's just a different sort of skill. But being able to think critically, infer meanings from context and subtext, and filter information are important skills for physicians to have as well. I guess I'm just biased because it was my best section, ha ha.
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Lol, that'd be fine and all if it didn't involve inferring what some art historian from 1912 truly meant when he delicately criticized some Renaissance painting
 
casanova said:
I recently got back my score and I'm scared that my low CARS might hinder me from applying to certain schools

Total: 517

C/P: 130
CARS: 125
B/B: 131
P/S: 131

Should I be worried?
Click to expand...

There’s no chance in hell a 517 is going to hinder you from most places even with a 125 in cars. You’re good.
 
Potentia Virtus said:
I honestly don't think that CARS has anything to do with luck, not more than any of the other sections. It's just a different sort of skill. But being able to think critically, infer meanings from context and subtext, and filter information are important skills for physicians to have as well. I guess I'm just biased because it was my best section, ha ha.
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CARS is more of a game though. It certainly helps a lot to be familiar with closely and critically reading texts. I barely prepped for the section and just relied on my humanities degree basically and did well on CARS (although a little worse on test day than I hoped). But the key between 90th and 100th percentile CARS is more gamesmanship and test taking strategy than skill.

That being said, I think Verbal was more highly correlated with clinical metrics. But it’s such a slim difference and all of those studies are ehhhhhh at best.
 
altblue said:
Lol, that'd be fine and all if it didn't involve inferring what some art historian from 1912 truly meant when he delicately criticized some Renaissance painting
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I get the sentiment, but being able to read a piece on an unfamiliar topic and recognize the patterns in the writing is an important skill since pattern recognition is a big part of medicine. Cars just does it in a weird way, as the topics are often unfamiliar. The thing most people don’t get though is that the topic is irrelevant. You literally don’t have to know anything about the topic to get the right answers.

Of course I’m probably biased too since I really like cars.
 
Really depends IMO, some might not care, some will.
For example, during one of my interviews, my interviewer commented on my balanced MCAT and how he was impressed by my CARS score. Says he sees a lot of unbalanced scores and finds it unsettling. But that was one person's opinion.
 
Laix said:
You are my hope and inspiration! I am going in with a 514 and a 125.. Retoke from a 509 because cars was only 123.
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Yeah you are fine! I think people on here get wary because it seems as though everyone on sdn has a 99th percentile score, but I just keep in mind that those scores are extremely rare in the applicant pool, and that sdn has a high nonresponse bias (people on here tend to be the extreme type A neurotic and proactive types that did very well). Whenever I'm on here I get self conscious of my score but then I revert back to this logic and feel proud of myself again🙂

Edit: hopefully I'm remembering the correct definition of nonresponse bias sorry if it is wrong haha
 
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Goro said:
CARS gets cut the most slack. Please spread the word. You're fine.
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Why? Isn't it shown to correlate the most closely with intelligence and medical school success? Isn't that why the canadians make a big deal about it?
 
usernamesaredumb said:
Why? Isn't it shown to correlate the most closely with intelligence and medical school success? Isn't that why the canadians make a big deal about it?
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Lol correlates with intelligence? Where did you get that? Show me the study that correlates CARS with general intelligence.

There were studies that demonstrated that the biology section of the old MCAT was the best predictor for Step I and finishing medical school without academic issues. I have not found any studies about the new MCAT subsections and any medical school outcomes.

I actually tried posting a thread asking if there were any studies about the new MCAT subsections, but sadly there were no replies
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I get the sentiment, but being able to read a piece on an unfamiliar topic and recognize the patterns in the writing is an important skill since pattern recognition is a big part of medicine. Cars just does it in a weird way, as the topics are often unfamiliar. The thing most people don’t get though is that the topic is irrelevant. You literally don’t have to know anything about the topic to get the right answers.

Of course I’m probably biased too since I really like cars.
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Yeah, I'm familiar with the argument for why CARS is important, and I didn't do badly on it by any means lol.

It just wasn't a pleasant section for me. It'd be frustrating noticing shifting-standards in the internal logic test writers used to say which 50/50 response was correct. And if I found a passage especially boring, or if I became overconfident, or was tired or whatever it'd almost always show in my performance. I also didn't invest that much time into the section, maybe a moderate amount, so maybe it would've become a more pleasant experience had I practiced more.
 
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MysteriousDoge said:
Lol correlates with intelligence?
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I think it correlates more with the strength of your humanities and social science education than it does with intelligence, whether it involves taking hardcore philosophy classes or just being very-well read.
 
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usernamesaredumb said:
Isn't it shown to correlate the most closely with intelligence and medical school success? Isn't that why the canadians make a big deal about it?
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No, and no and I don't know.

Of all the studies I've read on using MCAT as a predictor for success in med school, I have yet to see anything convincing that one subsection is a better predictor than then entire exam.

Again:
In addition, many applicants are either ESL or 1st gen. Americans, and CARS is more tricky for them. Also keep in mind that tons of candidates did fine in college and the other parts of the MCAT, so there's something perverse about CARS!

If you look at the score breakdowns for med school acceptees, the median CARS score is a full point below the other categories.

I've had students who scored a 5 in the old VR section, but scored 10s in Chemp/Phys and Bio. They did fine in our curriculum. We only screened out people who had poor speaking skills at interviews.

CARS and intelligence??? Where did that come from????
 
altblue said:
Yeah, I'm familiar with the argument for why CARS is important, and I didn't do badly on it by any means lol.

It just wasn't a pleasant section for me. It'd be frustrating noticing shifting-standards in the internal logic test writers used to say which 50/50 response was correct. And if I found a passage especially boring, or if I became overconfident, or was tired or whatever it'd almost always show in my performance. I also didn't invest that much time into the section, maybe a moderate amount, so maybe it would've become a more pleasant experience had I practiced more.
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Yeah, probably. I majored in math and minored in English, so cars is my jam.
 
Potentia Virtus said:
I honestly don't think that CARS has anything to do with luck, not more than any of the other sections. It's just a different sort of skill. But being able to think critically, infer meanings from context and subtext, and filter information are important skills for physicians to have as well. I guess I'm just biased because it was my best section, ha ha.
Click to expand...

These skills are all tested in other sections as well

Luck and test day variability is a huge factor on CARS. Personally, I pulled a 130 CARS on the AAMC FL, and continued this success through the remainder of my practice exams. Dropped by 4-5 points on test day.

n=1, but this did not occur with any other section.
 
Goro said:
No, and no and I don't know.

Of all the studies I've read on using MCAT as a predictor for success in med school, I have yet to see anything convincing that one subsection is a better predictor than then entire exam.

Again:
In addition, many applicants are either ESL or 1st gen. Americans, and CARS is more tricky for them. Also keep in mind that tons of candidates did fine in college and the other parts of the MCAT, so there's something perverse about CARS!

If you look at the score breakdowns for med school acceptees, the median CARS score is a full point below the other categories.

I've had students who scored a 5 in the old VR section, but scored 10s in Chemp/Phys and Bio. They did fine in our curriculum. We only screened out people who had poor speaking skills at interviews.

CARS and intelligence??? Where did that come from????
Click to expand...
intelligence tests are typically designed such that they require no outside information. CARS is the closest thing to that on the MCAT. Why else would the AAMC keep it in place. They aren't paying those authors for the fun of it. Neither is college board or ETS.

Verbal reasoning also is typically the hardest section on most standardized tests to coach/tutor which lends some sort of evidence to it being correlated with innate ability.

Also, and this is totally anecdotal, I've never seen someone with a high CARS score who isn't also a high scorer in the three other sections. The data you quoted seems to point at that too. There are no discretes on CARS that can be answered with rote memorization of some factoid which can inflate the score. If you are lacking analytical skills, it really shows on CARS, and critical and analytical abilities are usually a part of most psychologists definitions of intelligence.

I'm not making the argument that CARS is an outright IQ test, but it's much closer to being one than the other three sections.
 
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usernamesaredumb said:
intelligence tests are typically designed such that they require no outside information. CARS is the closest thing to that on the MCAT. Why else would the AAMC keep it in place. They aren't paying those authors for the fun of it. Neither is college board or ETS.

Verbal reasoning also is typically the hardest section on most standardized tests to coach/tutor which lends some sort of evidence to it being correlated with innate ability.

Also, and this is totally anecdotal, I've never seen someone with a high CARS score who isn't also a high scorer in the three other sections.
Click to expand...

I have.
 
usernamesaredumb said:
intelligence tests are typically designed such that they require no outside information. CARS is the closest thing to that on the MCAT. Why else would the AAMC keep it in place. They aren't paying those authors for the fun of it. Neither is college board or ETS.

Verbal reasoning also is typically the hardest section on most standardized tests to coach/tutor which lends some sort of evidence to it being correlated with innate ability.

Also, and this is totally anecdotal, I've never seen someone with a high CARS score who isn't also a high scorer in the three other sections. The data you quoted seems to point at that too. There are no discretes on CARS that can be answered with rote memorization of some factoid which can inflate the score. If you are lacking analytical skills, it really shows on CARS, and critical and analytical abilities are usually a part of most psychologists definitions of intelligence.

I'm not making the argument that CARS is an outright IQ test, but it's much closer to being one than the other three sections.
Click to expand...

You have good points, but isn't an aspect of intelligence also the application of said scientific knowledge to make the correct conclusion? I'm not saying skills required for CARS aren't important, but to say that a reading comprehension section on largely unrelated topics is the best indicator of intelligence is a rash stretch of logic. Also, as other have alluded to, CARS scores can vary a lot depending on the passage topics for the day (more boring/strenuous topics can lead to loss of focus).

Indeed, I have seen quite a number of people on here with high CARS and psych and low on the other sciences.
 
usernamesaredumb said:
intelligence tests are typically designed such that they require no outside information. CARS is the closest thing to that on the MCAT. Why else would the AAMC keep it in place. They aren't paying those authors for the fun of it. Neither is college board or ETS.

Verbal reasoning also is typically the hardest section on most standardized tests to coach/tutor which lends some sort of evidence to it being correlated with innate ability.

Also, and this is totally anecdotal, I've never seen someone with a high CARS score who isn't also a high scorer in the three other sections. The data you quoted seems to point at that too. There are no discretes on CARS that can be answered with rote memorization of some factoid which can inflate the score. If you are lacking analytical skills, it really shows on CARS, and critical and analytical abilities are usually a part of most psychologists definitions of intelligence.

I'm not making the argument that CARS is an outright IQ test, but it's much closer to being one than the other three sections.
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I'm not sure I buy that it's closer to being an IQ test than the other sections. If it is, the difference probably isn't too significant.

It does on some level assume outside knowledge, which the IQ test avoids. CARS passages have lots of advanced vocabulary words and complex phrases. Furthermore the inferences you're asked to make aren't always strictly logical and depend on you being experienced with expository writing and what writers tend to think. You could nitpick that some of these are skills rather than knowledge, but all of these are more preppable for than many aspects of an IQ test.

All of this is less noticeable to you because you prob have a good English education. This is more noticeable to someone who is ESOL or a sparodic reader.
 
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altblue said:
My friend has a 513 that's propped up heavily by his CARS. I was telling him he should be a law professor, lol.
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Unrelated, the LSAT sounds miserable. Knew someone who was preparing for it, and I'll take physics over logic games any day.
 
DrRiker said:
Unrelated, the LSAT sounds miserable. Knew someone who was preparing for it, and I'll take physics over logic games any day.
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Yeah, I don't think I'd be a fan. Was talking to a guy last week about that, he said he's the only person who likes the logic games.
 
I took an LSAT practice test a few years ago out of sheer boredom. It was actually kind of fun and I'd much rather prep by doing a ton of practice problems than have to do content review for like 2 months 🙁
 
DrRiker said:
Unrelated, the LSAT sounds miserable. Knew someone who was preparing for it, and I'll take physics over logic games any day.
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The lsat is fun. It’s all logic games and critical analysis. As a mathematician and general fan of logic, it’s like my dream exam. I took a practice one a while back during a time where I thought med school was a pipe dream.
 
altblue said:
Yeah, I don't think I'd be a fan. Was talking to a guy last week about that, he said he's the only person who likes the logic games.
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If anything, the lsat is closer to an intelligence test than any section on the MCAT. Mensa stopped accepting it though because the logic games have a finite number of formats that can be learned and practiced. Unless you take the lsat cold, it’s not super reliable as an indicator of intelligence.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
If anything, the lsat is closer to an intelligence test than any section on the MCAT. Mensa stopped accepting it though because the logic games have a finite number of formats that can be learned and practiced. Unless you take the lsat cold, it’s not super reliable as an indicator of intelligence.
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I'm also wondering if the LSAT would generally be easier than the MCAT, since it's less heavily selected for (most people sitting for the MCAT at least did alright in some challenging science courses, while you have people with easier coursework sitting for the LSAT)
 
altblue said:
I'm also wondering if the LSAT would generally be easier than the MCAT, since it's less heavily selected for (most people sitting for the MCAT at least did alright in some challenging science courses, while you have people with easier coursework sitting for the LSAT)
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It’s easier in that you don’t need a fund of knowledge to do well. You literally just have to have good analysis and reasoning skills and then learn the strategies for the different games and how to recognize them. It’s not an easy exam for someone who struggles with those, but I’m confident that anyone who can get above a 510 on the MCAT can destroy the lsat with a little bit of practice.
 
Goro said:
I have.
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I believe it; for, one could be as damn/unread as hell while possessing an excellent ‘working memory’.
I strongly suspect that ‘working memory’ is the main attribute to have in CARS.
?
 
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