Unfilled Program List

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Very surprised by the list. One of them is for sure just a problem with registering (northeast program not taking anyone this year). However, the other were part of the match. Good luck to everyone scrambling!
 
Impressions said:
Very surprised by the list. One of them is for sure just a problem with registering (northeast program not taking anyone this year). However, the other were part of the match. Good luck to everyone scrambling!
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I speculate that it has something to do with programs unrealistically selecting all superstars for interview, and superstars going on a lot of interview this year (or at least from what I gather on the interview trail).
 
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Impressions said:
I speculate that it has something to do with programs unrealistically selecting all superstars for interview, and superstars going on a lot of interview this year (or at least from what I gather on the interview trail).
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Looks like 8 unfilled positions.
 
medgator said:
If that's true, that has to be a record, at least in the past decade.
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UNC is on the list. Is that b/c of their two additional spots, or did they go unfilled AND have 2 spots (3 total?)

UTSW also had been approved to expand their program and they are on the unmatched list too. Does it mean they also went unfilled, or do you think these "unmatched" programs may represent programs that were approved for more spots and decided not to fill them yet?
 
This scramble process is crazy. It looks like most of those programs are legitimately looking to fill, I talked with most of them today. The crazy thing to me is, all of these programs tell me they are going through more than 150 applications to fill their spot. Some of them have said they have more candidates for the scramble than they had for the match. Who are all these people and where are they coming from? One of the programs said it was going to be so much work to go through all the applications, they would probably just not fill that spot this year and make up for it next year. Congrats to the lucky suckers who got spots this year:laugh:. Be glad you're not in the scramble.
 
radoncmonkey said:
UNC is on the list. Is that b/c of their two additional spots, or did they go unfilled AND have 2 spots (3 total?)

UTSW also had been approved to expand their program and they are on the unmatched list too. Does it mean they also went unfilled, or do you think these "unmatched" programs may represent programs that were approved for more spots and decided not to fill them yet?
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In looking over the list, it has 3 numbers that follow the ACGME code: quota filled, in match currently,and unfilled.

Mt Sinai---which we know isn't in the match---has a 2, 0, 2. UPMC and NY Methodist have the same numbers. This suggests to me that these three programs, each having "0" for "in match currently", are either accepting applicants outside the match or, for whatever reason, decided not to rank anyone for their positions.

With that said, it looks as if there are only 4 truly unfilled positions.
 
RADONCwannabe09 said:
This scramble process is crazy. It looks like most of those programs are legitimately looking to fill, I talked with most of them today. The crazy thing to me is, all of these programs tell me they are going through more than 150 applications to fill their spot. Some of them have said they have more candidates for the scramble than they had for the match. Who are all these people and where are they coming from? One of the programs said it was going to be so much work to go through all the applications, they would probably just not fill that spot this year and make up for it next year. Congrats to the lucky suckers who got spots this year:laugh:. Be glad you're not in the scramble.
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Does anyone have a "guesstimate" of how many applicants there were this year vs the 155 acceptances? Just trying to ascertain my chances for next year. thanks.
 
UT Southwestern was granted two additional spots in the middle of the interview season. We interviewed a few people and decided to fill just one of them out-of-match. The one unmatched spot you see is the result of that decision.

We do not intend to scramble to fill that position now. We may decide to fill it later during the year, however.

If you tried to contact us for a scramble position during the last couple of days and didn't get anything helpful, I apologize. The program coordinator is out on a vacation until later this week.
 
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The UPMC positions are real.

From what (little) I know, our rank list was much shorter than our interviewee list. I don't know what they will do about the positions, but I will keep you posted. I presume they will take their time with this.

March Madness is great! No really, the basketball, not this stuff ...

S
 
UNC has two (expansion) slots available starting July, 2009 and one (unmatched) slot for July, 2010.

First time we've EVER not matched a position - weird year indeed! :eek:
 
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How many people did UNC interview? I recall from a previous thread that the number was surprisingly small.

Vanderbilt...given their unique philosophy and the overall size of the program, it is realistic that they will not try to fill their spot at this time. Definitely contact them, but they are not one of these programs where the clinic would fall a part without residents. This is primarily because they expect residents to spend about half of their training doing research through Holman.
 
cgk said:
Does anyone have a "guesstimate" of how many applicants there were this year vs the 155 acceptances? Just trying to ascertain my chances for next year. thanks.
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From the interview circuit I heard talk from residents and faculty that they got anywhere from ~120 apps at the smaller places to almost 200 at the big spots.

I think it's tough to actually know how many people were applying... while there were definitely people that applied to every program, most people applied broadly, but regionally. Then there's people that double apply to other specialties that don't really think they're going to match in rad onc.

Lastly, whenever this conversation comes up, people are always like oh that's a really high match rate... well, yeah, but the group of applicants that are applying are so stellar and so self-selecting, that it's ridiculously competitive. I am abso-frickin' thrilled that I was able to match. It really is a dream come true. Best of luck to everyone!
 
Impressions said:
How many people did UNC interview?
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25-30 for the two slots in the match...but that was before we knew we'd been approved for expansion (which is why we're looking at candidates for those 2 slots - available this coming July - separately).

Suffice it to say that I now have a much greater appreciation of why it's called the "scramble". :rolleyes: So stressful for all involved.

March madness indeed.
 
RE: UTSW
Why would they have decided to purposefully not match one of their spots? Seems unlikely. Not sure i believe what they are saying.
 
Wow. Hard to believe there were that many unmatched spots - even with the explanations!
 
Its not possible to purposely not fill a spot. Its far more likely that UTSW got cocky and invited students that were out of their league.
 
Perhaps, my earlier post needs some clarification. We originally had two spots for the regular MS4 match for which we invited very select 15 people. Then, we were granted two additional spots right in the middle of the interview season. Initially, we wanted to accept a PGY2 transfer and take a PGY1 out of match so that our resident numbers will even out at 2 per year. After interviewing a few applicants for these extra spots (actually on the same day as one of regular MS4 interviews), we decided to fill just one spot with a PGY1.

Now we had three spots available. However, we didn't want to invite more people just to fill them. We did enter the third spot to the match thinking, "If we got lucky and get three out of the group we already ranked, why not?" But, since we really hadn't interviewed enough people, we were fully expecting we wouldn't fill all three.

That's precisely what ended up happening. We got our two MS4s out of the original pool of 15. So, to answer the original question, it's not that we purposely did not want to match a spot, that would be foolish. We were hoping to get really lucky, and not surprisingly, that didn't happen.

That's also why we are not in hurry to scramble to fill the one available position right now.

We may in the future decide to fill that spot, perhaps with a current MS4, maybe with a transfer. I don't know what the plan is. I will tell you, accoridng to Dr. Choy, our ultimate goal is to expand to a 12 resident program. Everything that man said would happen has, so I wouldn't be surprised if we expand again soon.

Thank you for the chance to clarify.
 
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RADONCwannabe09 said:
This scramble process is crazy.... Who are all these people and where are they coming from?
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I've been told that some (not sure how many) of these scramble applicants are from different fields altogether that didn't match in their respective specialties and never applied to rad onc in the first place.

Having gone through the scramble process myself a few years ago, I also heard that programs get applications from across FMGs as well.

Scramble is no fun for all parties involved, but good luck to all those who have to go through it!
 
iradi8u said:
Wow. Hard to believe there were that many unmatched spots - even with the explanations!
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This number is unheard of in recent years. Most I've seen are 3-4 tops. Unusual year indeed. Not sure what happened. But the matching algorithm is what it is...not a perfect system, but I am sure a large part of it has to do with programs not ranking enough candidates and vice versa.

Bottom line for everyone is to rank as many programs/candidates as you can that you're willing to go to/deal with!
 
I'm not sure why this City of Hope thing isn't a bigger issue. It essentially removed 3 people from the match. From what I understand, the secretary stated that they had 4 spots when in fact they had only 1. They matched 4, but now have to tell three of them "Sorry, you're SOL".

The entire integrity of the match is compromised. Taking 1 person out, and in this 3, can cause a huge chain reaction where multiple people would end up at different places. This sort of happened Urology during my 4th year of med school and they had to re-run the match.

S
 
SimulD said:
I'm not sure why this City of Hope thing isn't a bigger issue. It essentially removed 3 people from the match. From what I understand, the secretary stated that they had 4 spots when in fact they had only 1. They matched 4, but now have to tell three of them "Sorry, you're SOL".

The entire integrity of the match is compromised. Taking 1 person out, and in this 3, can cause a huge chain reaction where multiple people would end up at different places. This sort of happened Urology during my 4th year of med school and they had to re-run the match.

S
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That is absolutely horrible.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the match can be re-run since that would involve re-running the entire match (not just rad onc). Urology has its separate little thing, making it a lot simpler to redo the match.

If true, COH will likely be penalized for a match violation and be sued by those 3 individuals.
 
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Is this for real about COH? This is the worst thing I have ever heard.. Can you imagine..I have a pit in my stomach for the poor peeps involved.

I tend to think COH would probably end up having to take the 4 matched candidates vs. the 3 signed outside the match..otherwise their program is in danger. Either way, they will have 3 people getting screwed, they probably would try to at least save their program in the process.
 
SimulD said:
I'm not sure why this City of Hope thing isn't a bigger issue. It essentially removed 3 people from the match. From what I understand, the secretary stated that they had 4 spots when in fact they had only 1. They matched 4, but now have to tell three of them "Sorry, you're SOL".

The entire integrity of the match is compromised. Taking 1 person out, and in this 3, can cause a huge chain reaction where multiple people would end up at different places. This sort of happened Urology during my 4th year of med school and they had to re-run the match.

S
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wait, what? what's the deal with COH? Did I miss something in a previous post?
 
MHotep said:
That is absolutely horrible.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the match can be re-run since that would involve re-running the entire match (not just rad onc). Urology has its separate little thing, making it a lot simpler to redo the match.

If true, COH will likely be penalized for a match violation and be sued by those 3 individuals.
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Just got off the phone with NRMP. They would neither confirm nor deny, but stated that in this situation the match will not be rerun, but accommodations must be made on behalf of the matched individuals.
 
Thaiger75 said:
I've been told that some (not sure how many) of these scramble applicants are from different fields altogether that didn't match in their respective specialties and never applied to rad onc in the first place.
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If my exploding e-mail box is any indication, this is true for about 98% of the scramblers. Truth be told, half of them didn't even know the correct name of our specialty and/or confused it with radiology. :rolleyes:

Also, this City of Hope fiasco is true - unconscionable, really, despite apparently being a simple clerical error. IM(not so)HO, the affected candidates should demand COH finance their entire residencies at the places they are forced to relocate to.
 
They are taking 3, and the NRMP (I think) will figure out which 3. One poor schmuck is going to have to go somewhere else.

That unfortunate secretary! He/she is just taking it today, I bet.
S
 
SimulD said:
They are taking 3, and the NRMP (I think) will figure out which 3. One poor schmuck is going to have to go somewhere else.

That unfortunate secretary! He/she is just taking it today, I bet.
S
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What I had understood is that they signed THREE candidates outside the match. If they then matched four, I think you're actually talking about three candidates needing a new home, not just one. I'm sure heads will roll over this.. Terrible situation for all involved.
 
My bad..sounds like they matched 3 not 4. But that still leaves 2 extra :eek:
 
City of Hope deserves to be put on probation for this mess. For a new program, they are starting out on the right track.

What a fiasco.
 
This is really beyond belief. I've once heard of an anesthesiology program mis-coding their residency slots and actually offering fewer than they wanted. In this case, they had to fill a lot of positions in the scramble but people who really wanted to go there were screwed.

I really hope those 3 poor souls can come to an arrangement with COH.
 
SimulD said:
They are taking 3, and the NRMP (I think) will figure out which 3. One poor schmuck is going to have to go somewhere else.

That unfortunate secretary! He/she is just taking it today, I bet.
S
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The poor schmucks may indeed be the 3 people that have to go to this unorganized program. I would be sending out my CV to everyone.

But any spot is better than no spot. Hopefully, the 4th resident will find a home somewhere better. There are some good spots open! And COH should have to pay his salary.
 
SimulD explained it in earlier post:
I'm not sure why this City of Hope thing isn't a bigger issue. It essentially removed 3 people from the match. From what I understand, the secretary stated that they had 4 spots when in fact they had only 1. They matched 4, but now have to tell three of them "Sorry, you're SOL".

The entire integrity of the match is compromised. Taking 1 person out, and in this 3, can cause a huge chain reaction where multiple people would end up at different places. This sort of happened Urology during my 4th year of med school and they had to re-run the match.

S
 
Thaiger75 said:
SimulD explained it in earlier post:
I'm not sure why this City of Hope thing isn't a bigger issue. It essentially removed 3 people from the match. From what I understand, the secretary stated that they had 4 spots when in fact they had only 1. They matched 4, but now have to tell three of them "Sorry, you're SOL".

The entire integrity of the match is compromised. Taking 1 person out, and in this 3, can cause a huge chain reaction where multiple people would end up at different places. This sort of happened Urology during my 4th year of med school and they had to re-run the match.

S
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How does someone not know something like this? Didn't they realize how many spots they had available from the getgo?

Sounds like an organizational disaster at that place.
 
medgator said:
How does someone not know something like this? Didn't they realize how many spots they had available from the getgo?

Sounds like an organizational disaster at that place.
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Sounded like a clerical error made on the part of the program.

The question I have is that the match algorithm is optimized to "please" all candidates. Wonder how much this snaffu affected other people's rank list and matching outcomes?? Could these unmatched people have matched somewhere else lower in their rank list, which would have pushed out other people from that particular program and therefore potentially matched somewhere else? Kinda scary. Maybe they need to re-run the match and reoptimize.

Those who matched would of course lynch me for that suggestion :)
 
I wonder if the students involved are in contact with each other. That way they can almost take a united front against this unbelievably unfair situation. No matter how you look at it, one student will be forced to scramble in a match that he/she may very well have matched favorably had they not effectively been pulled from the match algorithm. I also encourage whatever faculty/PD/residents who read this forum from programs that still have slots or are open to offering spots to explore taking another resident. After all, we are all one big family right?
 
As I mentioned yesterday, this is not an uncommon occurrence through the match system. With that being said, it usually does not occur in such small fields like rad onc or derm.

The match for rad onc cannot be re-run without re-running the entire match (all specialties) because (1) not everyone just lists rad onc programs and (2) we all also submitted supplemental lists for preliminary programs, which also would affect internal medicine programs throughout the country. For the greater good the match will not be re-run.

The individuals who matched at City of Hope (and remember, them matching there technically means that is where they most wanted to be that still had spaces available) will be taken care of--most likely they will be City of Hope residents. In speaking with NRMP, I was told that "accommodations are made" for individuals in this situation.
 
MHotep said:
The individuals who matched at City of Hope (and remember, them matching there technically means that is where they most wanted to be that still had spaces available) will be taken care of--most likely they will be City of Hope residents. In speaking with NRMP, I was told that "accommodations are made" for individuals in this situation.
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How ironic that this happened with the "City of Hope" program. More like "City of False Gold"....sorry...couldn't resist....:p
 
Anyone know any info about USC? Looks like they have an open spot for 2009 and also for 2010? Is that correct? Thanks.
 
Just got off the phone with NRMP.... all 4 City of Hope Matchees (myself included) have officially secured residency positions, whether at City of Hope or elsewhere.

Congrats to my fellow anonymous sufferers... I can honestly say that I know what you were going through. These were some of the most emotionally turbulent days of my life, I am glad that it turned out successful for all of us.
 
This happened to me, where my program matched more than it had positions for. It petitioned the RRC for an extra spot and was denied. This was in a year when there were no (zero) available positions. At that time the NRMP simply told me to go sue the program under the binding arbitration and declined to get further involved. After the lawyers met and words were exchanged, an accommodation was made, but is was ugly and being in that situation was pleasant for no one. The situation was resolved at the level of the University Vice President and General Council, and cost a small fortune for everyone.

One would think that this type of violation would be actionable and the NRMP would take it seriously. I am glad to hear that they are at least a little more responsive.

The curious part of this is, the program did exactly the same thing the following year. The year after that the PD was gone.

I think this type of "mistake" exemplifies why the NRMP is a bad idea. As stated above, it probably happens in larger specialties and is largely unnoticed. Why can't we just apply for positions like the rest of the world, get offers and accept them?
 
ArielStar said:
Anyone know any info about USC? Looks like they have an open spot for 2009 and also for 2010? Is that correct? Thanks.
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I would strongly recommend that people not touch this program with a ten foot pole.
 
There was a world before the match. If you knew what it was like, you'd understand that this is the least bad of all evils. When you think about a straight up "real world" job application process, game theory, auction systems with bidding, and other potential ways to link applicants with programs, the match allows the most applicants to gain the most favorable outcome compared to any other system. There is actually an interesting article in JAMA about this: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/7/909

And ... I think people are using Impressions a bit haphazardly. You wanna talk smack on USC, oughtta use your own account, don't you think?

-S
 
Without the match there would be a frenzy.

Imagine getting an offer--from a less than desirable institution--in November that was only good for 6 hours. Would you take that bird in hand or wait unknowingly for a better offer? That was the old way.
 
MHotep said:
Without the match there would be a frenzy.

Imagine getting an offer--from a less than desirable institution--in November that was only good for 6 hours. Would you take that bird in hand or wait unknowingly for a better offer? That was the old way.
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Still happens for many medicine fellowships.
 
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