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DocEspana

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Hi everyone! I decided to drop by this forum for a bit and relive my old days of helping everyone be more happy and less paranoid about the world around them! Could someone update me on what the current hubub and paranoia is among the applicants. You're all overacheivers, so there will always be some paranoia.

In exchange, I'll hang out with everyone and answer whatever questions you have!
 
AACOMAS dropped their grade replacement policy. Instead of taking the most recent repeat for GPA calculation they're averaging all repeats the same way AMCAS does. Many pre-DO students are devastated, the redemption factor is basically eliminated for many. It is paranoia to a certain degree, schools are going to have to take this new policy into account, but it may very well close the door to a substantial number of applicants.


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AACOMAS dropped their grade replacement policy. Instead of taking the most recent repeat for GPA calculation they're averaging all repeats the same way AMCAS does. Many pre-DO students are devastated, the redemption factor is basically eliminated for many. It is paranoia to a certain degree, schools are going to have to take this new policy into account, but it may very well close the door to a substantial number of applicants.


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To add onto what @chad84 said,

Alot of people are very upset how AACOMAS handled the policy. Lot of people were in progress of retaking classes including myself, and this definitely hurts. This adds more years of post-bac/smp/effort.


On a side note, how often do you see successful applicants with multiple failed classes and 3.0 cGPA with excellent post-bacc credentials?
 
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To add onto what @chad84 said,

On a side note, how often do you see successful applicants with multiple failed classes and 3.0 cGPA with excellent post-bacc credentials?

I think it's more common than they want us to believe. I read that AACOMAS said in a "statistically significant" review the average GPA change with replacement was 0.03 on a 4.0 scale... I'm calling mega BS on that. Supposedly the real reason is it's too much of a headache for the behind-the-scenes company they use to process applications. Too many people are trying to count stuff from other schools as repeats and such. They're primarily doing away with it because of the headache it causes them. Again, what a nightmare.


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I think it's more common than they want us to believe. I read that AACOMAS said that in a "statistically significant" review the average GPA change with replacement was 0.03 on a 4.0 scale... I'm calling mega BS on that. Supposedly the real reason is it's too much of a headache for the behind-the-scenes company they use to process applications. Too many people are trying to count stuff from other schools as repeats and such. They're primarily doing away with it because of the headache it causes them. Again, what a nightmare.


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TBH, I really don't see a reason to doubt them. Admission is getting more competitive with every passing year and it seems that most students don't really rely on grade replacement to get in.
 
Hi everyone! I decided to drop by this forum for a bit and relive my old days of helping everyone be more happy and less paranoid about the world around them! Could someone update me on what the current hubub and paranoia is among the applicants. You're all overacheivers, so there will always be some paranoia.

In exchange, I'll hang out with everyone and answer whatever questions you have!
My current paranoia rotates around applying for gradPLUS loans and being denied, even though I am good according to thier current guidelines. Also, I am terrified my current acceptance will be revoked for some reason and I won't be able to ever go to school because there is no grade replacement anymore.
 
My current paranoia rotates around applying for gradPLUS loans and being denied, even though I am good according to thier current guidelines. Also, I am terrified my current acceptance will be revoked for some reason and I won't be able to ever go to school because there is no grade replacement anymore.

You'll be ok, they won't revoke your acceptance and GradPlus loans only get rejected if there is a major red flag such as bankruptcy.


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AACOMAS dropped their grade replacement policy. Instead of taking the most recent repeat for GPA calculation they're averaging all repeats the same way AMCAS does. Many pre-DO students are devastated, the redemption factor is basically eliminated for many. It is paranoia to a certain degree, schools are going to have to take this new policy into account, but it may very well close the door to a substantial number of applicants.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

I always thought the grade replacement was total nonsense and just played into everyone's paranoia rather than proviing any real benefit. And everything ive seen about how school acceptances in the DO world work suggests grade replacement really didnt serve a great purpose. No one was picked up for their GPA. A high GPA candidate likely has good interview skills and/or mcat. But ones with just a good gpa and not a good mcat are the ones who dont get accepted. Schools also know how the policies change an wont suddenly be all beside themself when they discover that the A- is really a c+ an an A-. The A- is still what they wanted to see. The idea of gpa as the be all metric is silly. Its so incredibly variable based on where you went. a 3.8 at harvard, state u, famous liberal arts college, and no name college are all totally different. On the other hand, the MCAT is the great equalizer. Showing you can get someone to give you an A- is what matters, not the final gpa. if your gpa blows its because you couldnt accomplish the A-, not because the A- averaged with the C+ somehow suddenly plunged you into some dark place. GPA never mattere that much in my day and doesnt matter now. Its a case where the "whole" is actually worse less than the sum of the parts. Its about each grade as an individual than the magical summation number at the end.

To add onto what @chad84 said,

Alot of people are very upset how AACOMAS handled the policy. Lot of people were in progress of retaking classes including myself, and this definitely hurts. This adds more years of post-bac/smp/effort.


On a side note, how often do you see successful applicants with multiple failed classes and 3.0 cGPA with excellent post-bacc credentials?

Everyone will hate every change for their own reasons. People hate change. Any change is going to dick over some people, and any delay in change is going to dick over others. Sometimes you just draw the short straw year-wise and were planning stuff for one reason and now need to deal with different reasons.

Plus isnt education supposed to be done for the sake of bettering yourself primarily? I say this with full awareness of the sarcasm I am dishing out, but shoulnt you WANT to do all of these educational extra steps for your own educational worth?

It is what it is.

My current paranoia rotates around applying for gradPLUS loans and being denied, even though I am good according to thier current guidelines. Also, I am terrified my current acceptance will be revoked for some reason and I won't be able to ever go to school because there is no grade replacement anymore.

Someone else said it first, but no one is turning you donw for a gradplus. that is an absolutely insane interest rate on a loan they know youre gonna pay back with truckloads of interest. You'll get it no problem. Same way, except for that one time, no ones acceptances get rejected. Worry about real things... like how bees are disappearing at an alarming rate.
 
Hey @DocEspana,

I don't have a problem (in theory) with the removal of grade replacement policy. Although it hurts me immensely, it is obviously for the better. For people like me who did very poorly in undergrad, I need to work even harder to redeem myself. I need 100 something credits (literally another bachelor's) and possibly SMP to get my application to a borderline acceptable levels (and who knows what will happen to DO and MD applications then).

My problem is rather how they handled it. Lots of people in the forums and in HES spent years repairing grades and set their life around this policy. If they gave a warning in 2014/15 about the removal of policy in 17, I don't think people can complain about it.
 
I always thought the grade replacement was total nonsense and just played into everyone's paranoia rather than proviing any real benefit. And everything ive seen about how school acceptances in the DO world work suggests grade replacement really didnt serve a great purpose. No one was picked up for their GPA. A high GPA candidate likely has good interview skills and/or mcat. But ones with just a good gpa and not a good mcat are the ones who dont get accepted. Schools also know how the policies change an wont suddenly be all beside themself when they discover that the A- is really a c+ an an A-. The A- is still what they wanted to see. The idea of gpa as the be all metric is silly. Its so incredibly variable based on where you went. a 3.8 at harvard, state u, famous liberal arts college, and no name college are all totally different. On the other hand, the MCAT is the great equalizer. Showing you can get someone to give you an A- is what matters, not the final gpa. if your gpa blows its because you couldnt accomplish the A-, not because the A- averaged with the C+ somehow suddenly plunged you into some dark place. GPA never mattere that much in my day and doesnt matter now. Its a case where the "whole" is actually worse less than the sum of the parts. Its about each grade as an individual than the magical summation number at the end.

Unless you've been on the receiving end of a rejection where the specific reason is "your GPA does not meet our criteria" you really can't speak to our anxiety here. Schools have specific averages that they need to maintain, no matter how "holistic" they claim to be with their evaluation. DO has consistently been a legitimate way for students who struggled in the past to show their development, appropriately coupled with new, upper-level classes or an SMP. Take away the ability to increase your GPA because a student didn't have their act together when they were 20 and you've completely shut them out. The fact is DO schools would have considered a candidate when their when grade replacement put them at a 3.5, but absolutely won't when averaging brings them to a 2.5. It doesn't matter how stellar they are with their MCAT or anything else, they'll be screened out either way. From what people are saying, admissions offices are saying they're going with the AACOMAS calculations. This hugely affects non-trads, it'll likely close the door for hundreds of people who have invested thousands of dollars into repairing their GPA in post bacc, many of whom would have been excellent doctors... It's super sad.



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Unless you've been on the receiving end of a rejection where the specific reason is "your GPA does not meet our criteria" you really can't speak to our anxiety here. Schools have specific averages that they need to maintain, no matter how "holistic" they claim to be with their evaluation. DO has consistently been a legitimate way for students who struggled in the past to show their development, appropriately coupled with new, upper-level classes or an SMP. Take away the ability to increase your GPA because a student didn't have their act together when they were 20 and you've completely shut them out. The fact is DO schools would have considered a candidate when their when grade replacement put them at a 3.5, but absolutely won't when averaging brings them to a 2.5. It doesn't matter how stellar they are with their MCAT or anything else, they'll be screened out either way. From what people are saying, admissions offices are saying they're going with the AACOMAS calculations. This hugely affects non-trads, it'll likely close the door for hundreds of people who have invested thousands of dollars into repairing their GPA in post bacc, many of whom would have been excellent doctors... It's super sad.



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I agree with a lot of what the doc said but you're right also. People who are gonna get totally screened out now in such an abrupt manner don't deserve this. The dedication you guys show taking the risk to even try to pursue medicine after a tumultuous UG should mean something.

Who knows how this wil play out, but I personally believe SMPs will adapt to this change pretty quickly, and will become the mode of entrance to DO and even MD schools for a lot of non grads with disastrous GPAs from the past.
 
I have several questions about EM:

1) What if any was the impact of applying to EM as a DO? As in, did you perceive any biases on interviews, rotations, etc.?
2) Overall, did you feel that your 3rd and 4th year rotations were solid? Any negatives or pros that were either specific to your school or DO education in general?
3) Do you like OMT? Time sink, or valuable information? Have you applied it yet in residency?
4) When did you realize or think you were going to go for EM? What's the best thing and worst thing about the specialty so far for you?
5) If you could do it all over again, would you go for medicine? Would you try harder to go for MD?
6) Did you do any research while in med school either specific to EM or in general?
7) How much does it suck to take COMLEX and then--if you did that is--USMLE? It seems most students take them essentially in the same week...
8) I am anxious about attending my medical school (LECOM-SH) especially since my MCAT was below average, while everything else was strong. I am worried I won't excel, be bottom 10% of the class, and just not meet my own expectations that I have of myself. Did you go through such moments in medical school, did they come up in pre-clinical or more clinical years?
9) What is one thing you would do different in medical school, either related to how you studied, interacted with friends, or whatever--that one thing that you now realize would have helped in your learning?

Thanks for answering any of these questions--I appreciate your time very much!!!
 
I agree with a lot of what the doc said but you're right also. People who are gonna get totally screened out now in such an abrupt manner don't deserve this. The dedication you guys show taking the risk to even try to pursue medicine after a tumultuous UG should mean something.

Who knows how this wil play out, but I personally believe SMPs will adapt to this change pretty quickly, and will become the mode of entrance to DO and even MD schools for a lot of non grads with disastrous GPAs from the past.

In all seriousness, some of these SMPs are sketchy as heck and will milk some students without guarantee of interview or acceptance. It was one of the reasons why I respected the grade replacement policy since it buffers against students choosing the wrong SMPs.
 
Unless you've been on the receiving end of a rejection where the specific reason is "your GPA does not meet our criteria" you really can't speak to our anxiety here. Schools have specific averages that they need to maintain, no matter how "holistic" they claim to be with their evaluation. DO has consistently been a legitimate way for students who struggled in the past to show their development, appropriately coupled with new, upper-level classes or an SMP. Take away the ability to increase your GPA because a student didn't have their act together when they were 20 and you've completely shut them out. The fact is DO schools would have considered a candidate when their when grade replacement put them at a 3.5, but absolutely won't when averaging brings them to a 2.5. It doesn't matter how stellar they are with their MCAT or anything else, they'll be screened out either way. From what people are saying, admissions offices are saying they're going with the AACOMAS calculations. This hugely affects non-trads, it'll likely close the door for hundreds of people who have invested thousands of dollars into repairing their GPA in post bacc, many of whom would have been excellent doctors... It's super sad.



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I really can. If youre on the receiving end of a rejection where the specific reason is "your GPA doesnt meet our criteria" its not your GPA. Its the individual parts of your GPA. This sounds like im saying the same thing, but im not, and it was exactly the point of why I was saying grade replacement is pointless. Because if they took time to tell you that its your GPA it meant they took time to actually open your file and read it, they know whats contained within it.

A person with a 3.60 GPA with a bunch of A's, a C in physics I and a A- in physics I when they retook it is not different from someone with an identical situation but a 3.58 GPA because the C and the A- are average together. If your application gets opened at all then the schools dont care what you did before in most situations, they care what you did in the end. If you get rejected its because they didnt feel comfortable with all of your grades. They all got looked at. Theyve always been aware of your previous grades and your replacement grades. Its not like schools suddenly go into a dissociative fugue state when they open your file and just black out when they see duplicate classes. If you look at pretty much any school *there is not GPA cutoff* if your GPA is the reason you didnt get in, its because either your GPA is completely ****ty (im talking..... REALLY ****ty) or they flat out didnt want you because you werent good enough. Replacement wont change that. The "replaced" GPA was always a joke even 9 years ago when I was applying, and it was a joke because even back then all of my advisors were honest with me that no DO school is using a *reasonable* GPA screen (not reading the applications from people with less than a 3.0 is not a reasonable screen. You're only going to remove completely unqualified people).

I would like to scream this from the rooftop so everyone can hear it. GRADE REPLACEMENT WAS DONE TO MAKE THE SCHOOLS LOOK BETTER, NOT YOU!!! The schools always saw all of your scores. They didnt use GPA to screen you for this exact reason. Just like in the allopathic world, if you have a sucky grade you need to redo it or re-evaluate your life goals. Just like in the allopathic world there is no such thing as a grade that just magically disappears. Just like the allopathi world, everything you have done in your past counts. I could have told you this 9 years ago. Grade replacement is done so that when the school takes someone who retook classes later in life and 'redeemed' themselves the schools admission GPA didnt take a hit. It was never done for you. You dont make yourself any better by artificially changing your GPA since they can see all your scores anyway and dont somehow "not realize" whats going on when you do grade replacement. You make yourself better by proving you can do something at a high level that you couldnt do at a high level before, the statistical mean that it creates is really irrelevant. Its the individual values that make that mean that matter. So if you got rejected because your GPA doesnt meet criteria, grade replacement wouldnt have made the difference.... GPA is a convenient red herring. The very closely related "actual academic performance" is what theyre talking about. The number is a surrogate marker, the actual performance class-to-class is what theyre really measuring.
 
I am very concerned about the bees. And the drastic increase in the price of Narcan autoinjectors over the last 5 years.
 
I have several questions about EM:

1) What if any was the impact of applying to EM as a DO? As in, did you perceive any biases on interviews, rotations, etc.?
2) Overall, did you feel that your 3rd and 4th year rotations were solid? Any negatives or pros that were either specific to your school or DO education in general?
3) Do you like OMT? Time sink, or valuable information? Have you applied it yet in residency?
4) When did you realize or think you were going to go for EM? What's the best thing and worst thing about the specialty so far for you?
5) If you could do it all over again, would you go for medicine? Would you try harder to go for MD?
6) Did you do any research while in med school either specific to EM or in general?
7) How much does it suck to take COMLEX and then--if you did that is--USMLE? It seems most students take them essentially in the same week...
8) I am anxious about attending my medical school (LECOM-SH) especially since my MCAT was below average, while everything else was strong. I am worried I won't excel, be bottom 10% of the class, and just not meet my own expectations that I have of myself. Did you go through such moments in medical school, did they come up in pre-clinical or more clinical years?
9) What is one thing you would do different in medical school, either related to how you studied, interacted with friends, or whatever--that one thing that you now realize would have helped in your learning?

Thanks for answering any of these questions--I appreciate your time very much!!!

1. I was loved even more? EM is a comically pro-DO field. While I'm not going to say every academic center in the US has a recent DO graduate, I will assume that every academic center in the US has either a recent DO graduate or DOs on faculty. The most elite training places in the field (Denver, UCLA, Cook County, Bellevue) are famous for taking tons of DOs. It was totally fine. Im sure Harvard or Sinai probably didnt take my app quite as seriously, but EM isnt like some of the other fields - research isn't that big and the residencies that are research-heavy are good places but they arent the elite places and many 'less brand name' places are widely considered better than the 'name brand' ones that are research oriented

2. I felt my 3rd and 4th year rotations were great (assuming this is in reference to EM). My school required a month of EM in 3rd year and gave me a month elective to do EM again right at the end of my 3rd year. Then 4th year I had tons of elective time. I was able to rotate pretty much anywhere I wanted without difficulty and was welcomed at major EM places to rotate with them, just had to do a little bit of legwork. So the pro-specific to my school was requiring that EM rotation in 3rd year, I think having one under my belt (even though it was at a non-residency place), made everyone else take my request to rotate with them more seriously.

3. OMT? Not my thing. I keep my skills slightly sharp by using it on my family, but except for making their aches and pains feel good I rarely use it in practice. The one use I have for it in practice is in with something I learned from a DO urologist who uses some of the OMT skills he learned to differentiate kidney mediated pain from msk back pain. Useful for the ER doctor since mid back pain is not totally uncommon and ruling out kidney stone on everyone with mid-back pain is a real pain. (A negative bedside ultrasound isnt enough to convince me there is no stone, but a normal bedside u/s and omt findings suggestive of msk origin is).

4. I have a very complex history of chasing two different fields. I always wanted EM from day 1 medical school, but during my 3rd year I became enamored with urology as well. So I chased both and took what came my way in the end. Best thing about my field is just about everything... it is a perfect fit for my personality, it never bores me, and it makes me feel like Im a "real" doctor and saving lives. It also gives me the lifestyle I want... I dont care about nights vs days and holidays, I care about the fact that more than half the month Im home to spend time with my future wife and family. That free time (and the very nice income that comes with it) locked this field up for me as a great choice. What do I dislike? People who dont know medicine asking me repeatedly "okay... but what is your speciality" and having to tell them that EM is a specialty.

5. You bet your f***ing ass Id do medicine again. And no I wouldnt try harder for MD. I got into MD schools. I didnt go by choice. Now my choice was driven by geography, I had strong family reasons to stay nearby and seriously was worried about things/people in my family when i went off to medical school. I didnt have any MD choices in the NY tristate region, but I totally had allopathic acceptances if I was willing go to to a different time zone. But leaving the area was a last ditch option for me and I happily chose DO in a location I wanted over MD where I didnt want to be.

6. I had one published article (in urology), and three national presentations (In quality improvement unrelated to any field) prior to applying for residency. I now have four published articles (three in urology, one in EM), and five national presentation (all five in quality improvement unrelated to any specific field).

7. Didnt suck at all. Took the USMLE first every time. Just studied for it as hard as humanly possible and then took the COMLEX about two weeks later. Basically took a week off after the USMLE to flood my brain with celebratory alcohol and then took 4 or 5 days to review OMM before taking the COMLEX. If you studied for the USMLE you are more than prepared for the COMLEX with just a little bit of OMM prep. People who say they arent similar tests are nitpicking. If you know the stuff you know the stuff, saying "oh bbut theyre written ever so slightly differently and blah blah blah" is sort of a cop out when the difference is that the COMLEX questions are generally easier except when they are completely random as hell (and nothing youre going to do will prep you for the random as hell questions).

8. Everyone has imposter syndrome. I was one of the better students in my graudating class and I had crippling imposter syndrome. You'll sit around and have panic attacks being convinced that everyone else knows everything better than you. 1) If you dont feel this way then you have no business being in medicine because that fear should drive you to work harder and 2) most people feel the exact same way about you whenever you get a question right that they didnt feel confident about. Just push yourself harder all the time. Im never going to be someone to tell you to lose yourself and lose track of a regular lifestyle from studying so much, but the day you become complacent (rather than saying "I need to get out and be social, for my own social/mental health") is the day you're doing your future patients a disservice. Wherever you are when you hit that peak level of performance is where you'll be. and thats fine.

9. ummmmmmmmmm. I'd have utilized the really cutting edge study materials out there more. Podcasts and live lectures and great lecturers. I was a "read the book. study the power point. do whatever questions were easily available. discuss with other students. repeat ad nauseum" studier. It worked well, especially the part where I did practice questions.... but I never took advantage of lectures and podcasts and (slightly harder to find) questions that are put together by some of these world class lecturers. I do this now as a resident and benefit immensely from it.
 
In all seriousness, some of these SMPs are sketchy as heck and will milk some students without guarantee of interview or acceptance. It was one of the reasons why I respected the grade replacement policy since it buffers against students choosing the wrong SMPs.

raw
 
1. I was loved even more? EM is a comically pro-DO field. While I'm not going to say every academic center in the US has a recent DO graduate, I will assume that every academic center in the US has either a recent DO graduate or DOs on faculty. The most elite training places in the field (Denver, UCLA, Cook County, Bellevue) are famous for taking tons of DOs. It was totally fine. Im sure Harvard or Sinai probably didnt take my app quite as seriously, but EM isnt like some of the other fields - research isn't that big and the residencies that are research-heavy are good places but they arent the elite places and many 'less brand name' places are widely considered better than the 'name brand' ones that are research oriented

2. I felt my 3rd and 4th year rotations were great (assuming this is in reference to EM). My school required a month of EM in 3rd year and gave me a month elective to do EM again right at the end of my 3rd year. Then 4th year I had tons of elective time. I was able to rotate pretty much anywhere I wanted without difficulty and was welcomed at major EM places to rotate with them, just had to do a little bit of legwork. So the pro-specific to my school was requiring that EM rotation in 3rd year, I think having one under my belt (even though it was at a non-residency place), made everyone else take my request to rotate with them more seriously.

3. OMT? Not my thing. I keep my skills slightly sharp by using it on my family, but except for making their aches and pains feel good I rarely use it in practice. The one use I have for it in practice is in with something I learned from a DO urologist who uses some of the OMT skills he learned to differentiate kidney mediated pain from msk back pain. Useful for the ER doctor since mid back pain is not totally uncommon and ruling out kidney stone on everyone with mid-back pain is a real pain. (A negative bedside ultrasound isnt enough to convince me there is no stone, but a normal bedside u/s and omt findings suggestive of msk origin is).

4. I have a very complex history of chasing two different fields. I always wanted EM from day 1 medical school, but during my 3rd year I became enamored with urology as well. So I chased both and took what came my way in the end. Best thing about my field is just about everything... it is a perfect fit for my personality, it never bores me, and it makes me feel like Im a "real" doctor and saving lives. It also gives me the lifestyle I want... I dont care about nights vs days and holidays, I care about the fact that more than half the month Im home to spend time with my future wife and family. That free time (and the very nice income that comes with it) locked this field up for me as a great choice. What do I dislike? People who dont know medicine asking me repeatedly "okay... but what is your speciality" and having to tell them that EM is a specialty.

5. You bet your f***ing ass Id do medicine again. And no I wouldnt try harder for MD. I got into MD schools. I didnt go by choice. Now my choice was driven by geography, I had strong family reasons to stay nearby and seriously was worried about things/people in my family when i went off to medical school. I didnt have any MD choices in the NY tristate region, but I totally had allopathic acceptances if I was willing go to to a different time zone. But leaving the area was a last ditch option for me and I happily chose DO in a location I wanted over MD where I didnt want to be.

6. I had one published article (in urology), and three national presentations (In quality improvement unrelated to any field) prior to applying for residency. I now have four published articles (three in urology, one in EM), and five national presentation (all five in quality improvement unrelated to any specific field).

7. Didnt suck at all. Took the USMLE first every time. Just studied for it as hard as humanly possible and then took the COMLEX about two weeks later. Basically took a week off after the USMLE to flood my brain with celebratory alcohol and then took 4 or 5 days to review OMM before taking the COMLEX. If you studied for the USMLE you are more than prepared for the COMLEX with just a little bit of OMM prep. People who say they arent similar tests are nitpicking. If you know the stuff you know the stuff, saying "oh bbut theyre written ever so slightly differently and blah blah blah" is sort of a cop out when the difference is that the COMLEX questions are generally easier except when they are completely random as hell (and nothing youre going to do will prep you for the random as hell questions).

8. Everyone has imposter syndrome. I was one of the better students in my graudating class and I had crippling imposter syndrome. You'll sit around and have panic attacks being convinced that everyone else knows everything better than you. 1) If you dont feel this way then you have no business being in medicine because that fear should drive you to work harder and 2) most people feel the exact same way about you whenever you get a question right that they didnt feel confident about. Just push yourself harder all the time. Im never going to be someone to tell you to lose yourself and lose track of a regular lifestyle from studying so much, but the day you become complacent (rather than saying "I need to get out and be social, for my own social/mental health") is the day you're doing your future patients a disservice. Wherever you are when you hit that peak level of performance is where you'll be. and thats fine.

9. ummmmmmmmmm. I'd have utilized the really cutting edge study materials out there more. Podcasts and live lectures and great lecturers. I was a "read the book. study the power point. do whatever questions were easily available. discuss with other students. repeat ad nauseum" studier. It worked well, especially the part where I did practice questions.... but I never took advantage of lectures and podcasts and (slightly harder to find) questions that are put together by some of these world class lecturers. I do this now as a resident and benefit immensely from it.
Wow. Thank you for such honest and detailed responses--definitely food for thought as I begin med school in July.
 
I would like to scream this from the rooftop so everyone can hear it. GRADE REPLACEMENT WAS DONE TO MAKE THE SCHOOLS LOOK BETTER, NOT YOU!!!

This is exactly what I said "schools have GPA averages they need to maintain."

I spent two years rebuilding my transcripts. My last 70 credits are 3.9, but without replacement my cumulative is down at a 2.7. Before the change schools would take me seriously because I have a really solid comeback, showing years of strong performance. Now they literally can't look at me, no matter how great the trend or stellar the EC's. Luckily I'm in an SMP right now and doing extremely well, so hopefully I'll have an acceptance soon, but if I had stayed behind for another year of post-bacc I'd be up a creek big time. I wouldn't even be considered for an SMP. They used my AACOMAS app for entrance, and have a 3.0 threshold for their SMP.

I'm not saying the sky is falling. People who genuinely want to be a physician will find a way, I'll swim to the Caribbean if I have to. I'm just saying people aren't being totally absurd for letting this concern them.



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This is exactly what I said "schools have GPA averages they need to maintain."

I spent two years rebuilding my transcripts. My last 70 credits are 3.9, but without replacement my cumulative is down at a 2.7. Before the change schools would take me seriously because I have a really solid comeback, showing years of strong performance. Now they literally can't look at me, no matter how great the trend or stellar the EC's. Luckily I'm in an SMP right now and doing extremely well, so hopefully I'll have an acceptance soon, but if I had stayed behind for another year of post-bacc I'd be up a creek big time. I wouldn't even be considered for an SMP. They used my AACOMAS app for entrance, and have a 3.0 threshold for their SMP.

I'm not saying the sky is falling. People who genuinely want to be a physician will find a way, I'll swim to the Caribbean if I have to. I'm just saying people aren't being totally absurd for letting this concern them.



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No. The schools were using the grade replacement to look *better* than they really are. Lets say they were claiming 3.5 average in 2007 but really were getting a 3.2. Its makes them feel better to be able to claim 3.5 if the nearby allopathic shcool is claiming 3.6 and thye want to stay close. Now they are claiming 3.7 but really getting 3.5 (and that allopathic school is stil cliaming 3.6). So if 3.5 is what they *actually* want, they no longer need grade replacement in 2017, they can report it the same way the school down the road does. Sure their accepted GPA drops overnight, but it drops to a level they previously felt was acceptable when they were "faking it". The fact of the matter is that the admission standards have risen to a point where they dont need to fake it with this policy anymore. The policy was never meant for you, it was meant for the schools to feel less embarassed. Now that they can remove it and still feel proud of the GPA they end up with, they will drop it because they dont want the * next to their GPA calculations when comparing to allopathic schools, but 10 years ago saying 3.5 when it was really 3.2 was the only way they could feel any sort of parity. Now they have (some) actual parity as the true GPA standards have creeped up.

unless your argument is that you spent money you wouldnt have spent otherwise (at which point youre lying to yourself. you would have retaken it regardless. But lost money HURTS and I know that feeling) you are being totally absurd.
 
I will always defer to any administration here for their more subtle understanding of how it works from the inside, but this appears to just be the logical conclusion of stuff we were saying 9 years ago.
 
So what would you tell a student in my situation? If repeating all courses and taking a bunch of new ones doesn't get you above a 3.0, but would have with grade replacement.

My program has a meeting with the dean on 1/20, I'll be interested to hear what she has to say.

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Hey DocEspana,

Will DO graduates still continue to safely match into IM and EM even after the 2020 merger and recent school expansion? Some people are grumbling that with no expansion of the residency placement and hospital rotation spots, you're going to get DO pushed out after the IMG/FMG gets pushed out of the match.
 
Hi everyone! I decided to drop by this forum for a bit and relive my old days of helping everyone be more happy and less paranoid about the world around them! Could someone update me on what the current hubub and paranoia is among the applicants. You're all overacheivers, so there will always be some paranoia.

In exchange, I'll hang out with everyone and answer whatever questions you have!

Did you get accepted into an AOA or ACGME EM program?

What is your recommendation for the summer bet MS1 and MS2?

When is a good time to start preparing for boards?

How do you deal with test anxiety, the feeling that you don't know jack the day before the exam?
 
So what would you tell a student in my situation? If repeating all courses and taking a bunch of new ones doesn't get you above a 3.0, but would have with grade replacement.

My program has a meeting with the dean on 1/20, I'll be interested to hear what she has to say.

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Same thing I think everyone would tell you. Thinking about it in terms of your GPA is a mistake because most schools honestly don't care about your gpa. They care about your grades. Which again seems like word play, but it's really not.

With or without grade replacement your only hope to get into a school is that they view your new grades as a redemption story. If you can convince someone you've turned over a new academic leaf then your old grades are ALMOST irrelevant.

I say almost because there will be some schools that won't want to take the (truly tiny) GPA hit you will bring at 1 out of 150ish data points in your class. There will be. And chances are those schools aren't so much avoiding you for your GPA, as they are choosing a different redemption story to take over you.

Like I said before. The grade replacement was never about the student. They eiter prove the old bad grades don't apply to them or they dont. The final number that is created in the process is somewhat irrelevant. It's the schools who wanted it so they could take redemption stories and have less of a blow to their gpa numbers. But honestly... fewer and fewer of those people are getting in each year so th3 need for that grade replacement is less than it used to be for the schools
 
Hey DocEspana,

Will DO graduates still continue to safely match into IM and EM even after the 2020 merger and recent school expansion? Some people are grumbling that with no expansion of the residency placement and hospital rotation spots, you're going to get DO pushed out after the IMG/FMG gets pushed out of the match.

Yes.

Those people don't know how to do basic math or read a literature article. The "famous" Nejm article about 2016 (or 2020) doesn't actually say what people claim it does, but the lazy reading of only the abstract has lead to this misunderstanding persisting.

The part about having medical student rotations of quality is a different matter. It's also overblown, but there is elem3nts of truth there
 
Did you get accepted into an AOA or ACGME EM program?

What is your recommendation for the summer bet MS1 and MS2?

When is a good time to start preparing for boards?

How do you deal with test anxiety, the feeling that you don't know jack the day before the exam?

ACGME

Take a vacation

Christmas break before the summer you take it. From that point on keep a steady habit of doing some studying multiple times a week regardless of what other demands you have for your classes. As long as youre always doing some you'll be able to be fully versed in all of the "basic reading" you need to do before you go into mass multi-week cram at the end of the year and start of the summer break.

What test anxiety? In all seriousness, I never had anxiety. I always studied as hard as I could and if it wasnt enough, so be it. I was still trying to quickly rote memorize stupid details until the moment i was forced to close my books.... but i was never anxious. Anxiety just made me a less efficient studier and that was a waste of my own talents if i let my own worries cripple my ability to succeed.
 
@DocEspana, Ihave two cats already... Should I get another cat? I love cats.

What color should I paint my living room?

My girlfriend wants to be an art therapist... Is there anything I can do?
 
@DocEspana, Ihave two cats already... Should I get another cat? I love cats.

What color should I paint my living room?

My girlfriend wants to be an art therapist... Is there anything I can do?

No. Because its hard enough serving three masters, you'll just piss off the other two even more by dividing your servitude three ways. It is nice that you have stockholme syndrome about it all. They are very generous captors.

Eburnean. It's this color. It will look like you painted your walls white and yet not white at the same time. Its just creamy enough to drive everyone insane as they try to figure out if you have an ivory colored room or if you just need better lighting to turn the walls fully white.
eburnean.png


Ask her what color Eburnean is. Or Xanadu (its a green mixed with grey). Or Wenge (80% brown with about 20% purple to give you this dark woody color). If she can get even one of these colors right, she can stay. If she cant... maybe you should get that third cat after all.
 
No. The schools were using the grade replacement to look *better* than they really are. Lets say they were claiming 3.5 average in 2007 but really were getting a 3.2. Its makes them feel better to be able to claim 3.5 if the nearby allopathic shcool is claiming 3.6 and thye want to stay close. Now they are claiming 3.7 but really getting 3.5 (and that allopathic school is stil cliaming 3.6). So if 3.5 is what they *actually* want, they no longer need grade replacement in 2017, they can report it the same way the school down the road does. Sure their accepted GPA drops overnight, but it drops to a level they previously felt was acceptable when they were "faking it". The fact of the matter is that the admission standards have risen to a point where they dont need to fake it with this policy anymore. The policy was never meant for you, it was meant for the schools to feel less embarassed. Now that they can remove it and still feel proud of the GPA they end up with, they will drop it because they dont want the * next to their GPA calculations when comparing to allopathic schools, but 10 years ago saying 3.5 when it was really 3.2 was the only way they could feel any sort of parity. Now they have (some) actual parity as the true GPA standards have creeped up.

unless your argument is that you spent money you wouldnt have spent otherwise (at which point youre lying to yourself. you would have retaken it regardless. But lost money HURTS and I know that feeling) you are being totally absurd.
See, I don't believe what you're saying. There are people that got terrible grades and then years later turned things around. Without grade replacement, many will end up below 3.0 and be screened out automatically by a computer. I also think a school will be less inclined to take someone that now brings them a 3.1 after a bunch of mistakes than the same scenario if it had been a 3.5 with replacement. I agree many of these "underdogs" will still get in, but it sincerely creates an incentive to take many less of them because the schools simply don't want their averages to drop down.
 
See, I don't believe what you're saying. There are people that got terrible grades and then years later turned things around. Without grade replacement, many will end up below 3.0 and be screened out automatically by a computer. I also think a school will be less inclined to take someone that now brings them a 3.1 after a bunch of mistakes than the same scenario if it had been a 3.5 with replacement. I agree many of these "underdogs" will still get in, but it sincerely creates an incentive to take many less of them because the schools simply don't want their averages to drop down.

Note the part I bolded.

You act like they stood any chance *with* grade replacement. I don't believe in all of this overblown pessimism but I also call things as they are. The scenario where that person gets into any medical school is probably 5 or less people per year. Changing grade replacement won't alter that phenomenon's frequency in any meaningful way. Being screened out by the computer or by actual administrative staff 5 minutes later makes no difference except the latter requires them to consciously acknowledge there are many more promising "redemption" stories than this one.
 
Same thing I think everyone would tell you. Thinking about it in terms of your GPA is a mistake because most schools honestly don't care about your gpa. They care about your grades. Which again seems like word play, but it's really not.

With or without grade replacement your only hope to get into a school is that they view your new grades as a redemption story. If you can convince someone you've turned over a new academic leaf then your old grades are ALMOST irrelevant.

If your cumulative GPA is in the system as below a 3.0, no matter how stellar you've done for any period of time, won't your application just be automatically screened out? I know many DO schools have no minimum for secondaries, but I've been told that it won't get read if you're below a 3.0 (2.7 for one or two schools). Maybe I'm wrong though, maybe all secondaries get read no matter what. I know when I submitted mine when my GPA was below 3.0 I was getting instant rejections after submitting secondaries. There is literally no way they read my essays before saying no.




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Note the part I bolded.

You act like they stood any chance *with* grade replacement. I don't believe in all of this overblown pessimism but I also call things as they are. The scenario where that person gets into any medical school is probably 5 or less people per year. Changing grade replacement won't alter that phenomenon's frequency in any meaningful way. Being screened out by the computer or by actual administrative staff 5 minutes later makes no difference except the latter requires them to consciously acknowledge there are many more promising "redemption" stories than this one.
I act like it because I believe it's true. Get me an applicant that was homeless for 1 year and racked up 30 units of Fs but show me that years later they performed well (3.5+) and I would never hesitate to overlook their past. However, a screen boots them and I'll never get to know them. Also, if maintaining GPA is crucial and yesterday I was willing to take 10 redemption stories with grade replacement, today I may take only 3 to keep my numbers. In the end, it does hurt people that for whatever reason, had to use grade replacement.
 
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