UPenn vs. Pitt (OOS) vs. UAB (OOS)

[Gustavo dos Santos]

Would love some feedback here. They are all great options and I recognize that. Cost of attendance isnt really an issue, and they all come out to very similar prices with a scholarship from UPenn.

Ultimately, I am very interested in specializing. OMFS was something that initially really pulled me into dentistry, but I'm also very interested in Ortho and Endo. Wanting to explore them more. Would also be 100% okay being a general dentist if thats how the cards fell.

All three programs are strong academically. UPenn may be "stronger" and lay a better foundation for CBSE studying, but i know I could be successful at any of the 3 schools it may just take a little more effort at others. Does a systems-based curriculum vs non make a difference at all?

Clinically I think UAB is the best, followed by Pitt then UPenn. I think they all have graded clinics instead of just Pass/Fail. UAB has number requirements whereas I think Upenn and Pitt are both competency based.

Location wise I think I'd prefer to live in Pittsburgh the most. Smaller city, but has professional sports teams, lots of hills, the river, outdoors options, Not as humid as Birmingham as far as I know.


I guess the key differentiating factor would be residency placement and focus on specializing. UPenn places tons of kids in residencies (yet to be determined if this is because of the school or the Type-A overachievers attending Ivy leagues). Pitt also has pretty solid placement with UAB being on the lower end (2020 class, 3 OMFS, 3 Ortho, 0 Endo). That being said, I would love to match into a southern program like UAB's OMFS program and am wondering if there is any advantage in attending dental school there for this reason. I dont know if an environment where lots of kids want to specialize makes it harder or easier to specialize than from a school where there is a little more focus on general dentistry and fewer hoping to specialize.

UPenn also supposedly doesnt rank after 10 which means as long as you keep a good GPA it doesnt matter if the class is cutthroat and super competitive. Not sure I fully understand their ranking style and the positives/negatives of it. Pitt/UAB have traditional ranking/grades so I'd have to put more emphasis on grades than I like to make sure I dont drop in rank/GPA.

Would love some insight on other negatives/positives for each school since it was really difficult to get a great feel for each program with virtual interviews. I'm also struggling to differentiate between them (aside from location) because they all seem to be on pretty equal footing except for specialization rate (which is likely more student specific than school specific) If there are other things you think i should consider about the programs (aside from cost) I'd love to know.


Also waitlisted at UConn and waiting to hear back from UNC at the end of january (after deposit is due I think). Both of those schools are higher on my list than these 3. Thanks!

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[axiumgod]

If cost is similar and residency placement is important to you then choose Penn. Also, Penn doesn’t rank top 10 anymore. Urban legend.

 

[Gustavo dos Santos]

If cost is similar and residency placement is important to you then choose Penn. Also, Penn doesn’t rank top 10 anymore. Urban legend.

How is it set up now? No ranking? Just GPA?

 

[axiumgod]

How is it set up now? No ranking? Just GPA?

The top 10 GPAs just get invited to an honor society. So like if 5 people have a 4.0 and 5 people have a 3.9, those 10 get invited. If there’s a tie that makes it more than 10 people, then all the people with that GPA get invited too. Honestly more confusing than a normal ranking lol but I want to add that it’s not a competitive environment at all

 

[anondent20]

The top 10 GPAs just get invited to an honor society. So like if 5 people have a 4.0 and 5 people have a 3.9, those 10 get invited. If there’s a tie that makes it more than 10 people, then all the people with that GPA get invited too. Honestly more confusing than a normal ranking lol but I want to add that it’s not a competitive environment at all

So if top 10 are not ranked, what is everyone ranked? Used to be 11 I believe. Is it just no rank at all now for anyone?

 

[axiumgod]

So if top 10 are not ranked, what is everyone ranked? Used to be 11 I believe. Is it just no rank at all now for anyone?

No rank for anyone now, the only recognition you can get is the honor society invite.

This is true for the current D1 class, I’m not sure if the older classes are on the same system or if we’re the first class to do it.

 

[Gustavo dos Santos]

No rank for anyone now, the only recognition you can get is the honor society invite.

This is true for the current D1 class, I’m not sure if the older classes are on the same system or if we’re the first class to do it.

Have they announced that there is no more rank? Or could it possibly be that when it comes time to apply to residencies they’ll have kept track internally?

 

[Ivy.ch]

Ultimately, I am very interested in specializing. OMFS was something that initially really pulled me into dentistry, but I'm also very interested in Ortho and Endo. Wanting to explore them more. Would also be 100% okay being a general dentist if thats how the cards fell.

If you want to specialize, especially in OMS, YOU need to put in the work. Don't you dare think paying more for a school will help you get in.

All three programs are strong academically. UPenn may be "stronger" and lay a better foundation for CBSE studying, but i know I could be successful at any of the 3 schools it may just take a little more effort at others. Does a systems-based curriculum vs non make a difference at all?

You have no idea whether you will actually want Surgery. No offense, but so many pre-dents think the same thing and they don't make it. But let's assume you will... Just like I said above, your success on the CBSE is all up to YOU, not the school.

I don't think the curriculum will make much of a difference. It probably makes it marginally easier.

UPenn places tons of kids in residencies (yet to be determined if this is because of the school or the Type-A overachievers attending Ivy leagues).

My state school is going to match 4/4 to OMFS this year. Columbia will probably do like 30/35 like usual. Which school is better for specializing? It's apples to oranges. Everyone going to a school like Penn wants to specialize, which I think makes it more difficult to stand out and make it through the pack.

I would love to match into a southern program like UAB's OMFS program

You're getting ahead of yourself. You have a LONG way to go until matching. But yes, UAB is probably the "best" OMS program in the country.

Pitt/UAB have traditional ranking/grades

I had multiple OMFS programs compliment my rank at state school. Can't happen at Penn if you're below 10. Also, at many of the P/F programs like that, they supposedly find a way to communicate your rank in your institutional letter of recommendation.

Also waitlisted at UConn and waiting to hear back from UNC

Two excellent schools, and I would wholeheartedly recommend them if you get a spot.

It's crazy to me the Cost of Attendance at each of the three you mentioned are equal. You sure about those numbers? I've heard great things about Pitt, both school and city. Philly is also nice. If price truly is equal, I might give a soft recommendation to Penn. But I would reach out to upperclassmen at each school.

 

[axiumgod]

Have they announced that there is no more rank? Or could it possibly be that when it comes time to apply to residencies they’ll have kept track internally?

The info about the honor society instead of ranking is what one of our Academic affairs deans told us when our class asked about it earlier this semester. There wasn’t a formal announcement about it if that’s what you mean though

 

[Gustavo dos Santos]

You're getting ahead of yourself. You have a LONG way to go until matching. But yes, UAB is probably the "best" OMS program in the country.

Of course, but does attending UAB give any sort of benefit in matching into their specialty programs? Or any school and associated programs for that matter? Is this something program directors consider at all?

I need to double check Pitt and if it is possible to get instate tuition after a year. But otherwise, yes all-in the costs will be very similar with scholarship and unique living arrangement in philly

thank you for the feedback and advice

 

[Ivy.ch]

Of course, but does attending UAB give any sort of benefit in matching into their specialty programs? Or any school and associated programs for that matter? Is this something program directors consider at all?

I need to double check Pitt and if it is possible to get instate tuition after a year. But otherwise, yes all-in the costs will be very similar with scholarship and unique living arrangement in philly

thank you for the feedback and advice

No. UAB OMS gets the top applicants in the nation. They have no reason to favor UAB students unless they’ve spent time in the clinic getting to know them, but even then, no promises they like you.

 

[SirBrotherJam]

I'll be going to one of those schools for Endo. It's great that you are excited, but as @Ivy.ch alluded too, don't get ahead of yourself. You need to find what you like and also maintain grades, ect.. I thought Endo was ******ed as a first year and that obviously changed for me. I also think that a lot of people like the idea of OS/Endo/Ortho and not actually what it takes (more so towards OMFS) to achieve that goal.
Assuming that is done, and I know it sounds like a cliche, but matching to a program really comes down to you meshing with the faculty and residents(you may find that UAB and you don't click). Sure, have the stats, but that only gets you the interview. I know OMFS is a "good old boys club" as you will basically be living together at the hospital and need to get along. Honestly, I am half convinced that most of the residencies already know who that want before you even step through the door and just want to make sure you are normal"ish". i.e. show face to lots of programs when the time comes.
In the military, we see a lot of different people from different schools and they do vary some. I knew a guy that went to Pitt and was very good as a GENDEN. He's now at an ortho residency. Another guy went to Penn and had an over inflatted ego about Ivy League Schools(Ivyitis) vs Public/non-Ivy Private schools, but that was just him. It is a good school as mentioned by OP and others. Don't know much about UAB.

 

[future_nostalgia]

Have they announced that there is no more rank? Or could it possibly be that when it comes time to apply to residencies they’ll have kept track internally?

D2 at Penn here -- The "top 10 ranking" hasn't been a thing for a while. There hasn't really been a formal announcement but during orientation each year they tell everyone that there isn't any ranking so there's no point in trying to compete with one another. When D4's fill our residency applications they don't put down rankings because it's not really tracked by the school. What is tracked is just the top 10% up until the end of D2, those students get invited to join an honor society -- but this isn't really a formal ranking because someone who gets into the honor society could theoretically drop from the top 10% by the beginning of D4.

Also the honor society isn't even really something that's widely talked about in the school and I think it's mainly because people would rather foster an environment of collaboration vs. competition.

 

[Gustavo dos Santos]

D2 at Penn here -- The "top 10 ranking" hasn't been a thing for a while. There hasn't really been a formal announcement but during orientation each year they tell everyone that there isn't any ranking so there's no point in trying to compete with one another. When D4's fill our residency applications they don't put down rankings because it's not really tracked by the school. What is tracked is just the top 10% up until the end of D2, those students get invited to join an honor society -- but this isn't really a formal ranking because someone who gets into the honor society could theoretically drop from the top 10% by the beginning of D4.

Also the honor society isn't even really something that's widely talked about in the school and I think it's mainly because people would rather foster an environment of collaboration vs. competition.

Thanks for the explanation, it really wasn’t clear from interview day or the students I spoke to, so I appreciate the clarification!

 

[toothache200]

When do you want to decide by, or are you putting more than one deposit down?

 

[Gustavo dos Santos]

When do you want to decide by, or are you putting more than one deposit down?

Well, I haven’t visited any of the schools due to Covid and have only been to Philadelphia. I won’t be able to make a trip before Jan 15 when deposits are due. I’m also really hoping to hear back from UNC but likely won’t hear accepted/rejected/waitlisted until after January 15 according to UNC.

Id like to not double deposit but may end up narrowing it down to two (likely the two PA schools) double depositing and then try to visit the areas in the spring

 

[toothache200]

I feel you on waiting for unc 😥 but Goodluck with whatever you end up deciding, all great options!!